Islam

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soberxp

Senior Member
May 3, 2018
410
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#61
BTW,In fact, Muslims are paradoxes, those extreme Muslims who believe that 72 wives can be married in the kingdom of heaven, and that as a martyr they can enter the kingdom of heaven, the Suicide bomber to kill all those who do not believe, but they are the ones who do not believe in the Koran. For it is said in the Koran that Jews deny Christians, Christians deny Jews, and they lack knowledge. This sentence clearly affirms the Bible and affirms that both Jews and Christians are believers. What's more, the Quran says that innocent people must not be killed, and that some extreme Muslims will appear in the Koran, as the Quran says. All I can say is that I'm sad that even the prophets can't change some people. Sometimes I wonder if Muslims are reading the Koran, or whether some Muslims are being taught by the devil.
 

Milee777

Active member
Dec 24, 2018
173
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#62
They burnt all the early Korans because they did not agree, your "friend" may be practicing taqiyya, and the Koran also tells Muslims to believe the Bible, so he is actually contradicting himself. I do not see the problem with Hebrews 11:12, what contradiction are you referring to? Please keep in mind that many so-called scholars are not in any way inspired, and not in possession of the Truth.

The attitude of Muslims toward the Bible is enigmatic, to say the least. On the one hand, the Qur'an speaks very highly of the "Taurah" (Torah), the "Zabur" (Psalms) and the "Injil" (Gospel) as Scriptures revealed to Moses, David and Jesus respectively. It calls them "Books of God," describing them as a "sign," a "light," a "guidance," or a "mercy," and exhorts Muslims to read and live by them. Muslims therefore profess to believe in "all the Prophets and all the Scriptures." At the same time, however, they dismiss the Bible as being invalid and untrustworthy. Muslims explain this inconsistency by charging that the present Bible is not the same as the Scriptures referred to in the Qur'an; they claim that the text has become so "corrupted" that the original Scriptures must be considered lost.

How can Muslims make such claims in the face of all the evidence to the contrary? To begin with, they will usually claim that the Qur'an itself states that the Bible has been corrupted. There are indeed a few passages which accuse the Jews of Medina in Muhammad's day of "corrupting" their Scriptures, although Muslim commentators themselves are not agreed as to what is meant by this. Many earlier commentators held that all that is meant is that they misquoted, not alterated, the text. In any case, one may safely say that these verses are not the real reason for the claim. Nor is it that Muslims have studied the manuscript evidence for the text of the Old and New Testaments, or the principles of "textual criticism," and found proof of textual corruption.

The real reason Muslims reject the Bible is that the Qur'an leads them to expect a "Scripture" very different than what they actually find. To give one example, the Muslim expects the Gospel to be, much like the Qur'an, a book revealed to Jesus, not a book about His life. Committed as they are to the Truth of the Qur'an, the only explanation they will accept for this discrepancy is that the Biblical text must be corrupted. Despite overwhelming evidence showing that the Bible has not been changed, few Muslims are willing to admit it.

How is the Christian to respond to such an attitude? In such circumstances, it is easy to become exasperated and say too much. Read, ponder memorize and follow the advice of 2 Timothy 2:24-26. Continue to affirm the Truth. Keep in mind that, given the Qur'an's understanding of the Scriptures, it would have shattering implications for the Muslim's faith in it if he were to admit to the Bible's authenticity. There are excellent inexpensive booklets to help you. I recommend "The Holy Book of God: An Introduction" by David Shenk. From http://www1.cbn.com/onlinediscipleship/what-is-the-muslim-view-of-the-bible
Hey thanks for bringing it to my notice. NOW. its not Hebrews 11:12 am really sorry about that.... Its Hosea 11:12.. See how KJV and NIV completely contradict here. I both googled and cross checked with my Bible app. I had nothing to say against it when he brought this to my notice.
 

Milee777

Active member
Dec 24, 2018
173
120
43
#63
Just type what do scholars say about Quran and there you go... you'll find there are disputes over it.. new theories and yet he tells me this '' are you trying to contradict what ur own scholars are saying''. His bias is clear yet i know fighting isn't the answer and he sometimes seems like a true pursuer of the truth and if he truly pursues God, he' ll find Him, no doubt about it.
 

Prycejosh1987

Active member
Jul 19, 2020
954
156
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#64
I hate to say this but the bible warns about this very happening in Gal 1:8 "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a divine curse," and 2 cor 11:14 "And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light." This is almost a prophecy of what happened to Muhammad. An angel my have spoken to him, but if one did, it was not from heaven. I love and respect all Muslims and hope that even with our disagreements we can still joke around, be friends, yet hold to the truth without question.
It is true, keep preaching the message, and get that message across where you can.
 

Quiverful

New member
Jul 26, 2020
5
3
3
#65
I think one of the main ideas that should be taken under consideration is what life attest to. The most important thing in life for atheists, Christians, and Muslims is the connections we have with our families and friends, or in one word love. If we examine the Muslims version of God versus the Christian's we see a huge difference. Jesus Christ is so personal and relational in that He comes in to our problems in being a man and saves us from them as God. The entire old testament is centered around the theme of sacrifice an unblemished animal for sins and the coming Messiah as liberator. Muslims believe in the Torah then I hope they will look all the foreshadowing that occurs in the bible pointing to Jesus Christ as God and savoir. I hate to say this but the bible warns about this very happening in Gal 1:8 "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a divine curse," and 2 cor 11:14 "And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light." This is almost a prophecy of what happened to Muhammad. An angel my have spoken to him, but if one did, it was not from heaven. I love and respect all Muslims and hope that even with our disagreements we can still joke around, be friends, yet hold to the truth without question.
I disagree. The most important thing in life is to make the God of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob your master. Believe that Jesus is fully God and fully man and that he came to this world to save us. Everything was made by him and for him. And without him you are headed for certain death.
"The truth shall set you free" - John 8:32
 

vashweb2

Well-known member
May 30, 2018
71
250
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#66
Thank you for disagreeing. You brought back to my original point that love is what distinguishes Christianity from all else with the combination of these two scripture verses: 1 John 4:8 " God is love," and Romans 1:20 "For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. " My entire point was that the love found in Christianity is found everywhere but only points to the one who perfected it through demonstrating it on the cross. God is love and His invisible attributes are just that: they are everywhere. You can see them when you watch your dog with his pups, the cat with her kittens, the bear with her cubs, the duck with her ducklings, the whale with her infant, and a mother or father with their child. We see the shadow or the attributes of who God is here, on this planet, with us. This world is imperfect with death but the evidence is nevertheless here so that "none are without excuse" as the scripture says. Christ (God) died a human death to conquer evil instead of simply snapping His fingers and making it disappear. The Parable of the Sower with the plants and the weeds explains why that is. You cannot find real love in Islam or any pantheistic religion that calls for works to be done. Our Father is just that, Our Father, and He gives us eternal life simply by for the asking and believing. 1 Corinthians chapter 13 defines love even further:


If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned,[a] but have not love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5 or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;[ 6 it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.
13 So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

We have the two most important things in this life: truth and love. Jesus Christ claimed to be both.
 

powderman

Active member
Apr 22, 2020
228
89
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#68
I have NOT read all of these posts and do not intend to. I've lost 2 nieces to that godless cult. Islam is a cult of hatred and death. Mohamed WAS a pedophile, thief, rapist, murderer, a false prophet. Their allah is a false god, satan himself. Every convert to islam is a soul lost to satan himself.
 

true_believer

Active member
Sep 24, 2020
104
72
28
#70
I grew up in a Muslim family. Even though I am a believer now, the hostility and misconceptions I've observed from some Christians is astounding.
 

vashweb2

Well-known member
May 30, 2018
71
250
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#71
There is movie about Muslims in Saudi Arabia on Netflix. I believe it causes a lot stereotypes because there is a woman screaming for her life before the country performs an execution in a very brutal manner. It shocked me but I don't judge every Muslim according to those Muslims. I met a friend named Muhammad in my Precalculus class and he changed my mind about stereotypes. 436a266184ba2f2ca5986b327f869305.jpg
 

kaylagrl

Senior Member
Oct 18, 2014
15,302
3,226
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#72
I grew up in a Muslim family. Even though I am a believer now, the hostility and misconceptions I've observed from some Christians is astounding.
Could you elaborate on that?
 

true_believer

Active member
Sep 24, 2020
104
72
28
#73
Could you elaborate on that?
That's a long list. But I'll start with one....
There's this belief that Muslims are emigrating to western nations due to a diabolical plan to take over the West. Most Muslims migrate to North America and Europe for economic reasons like most imigrants.
 
Jan 25, 2015
6,618
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#74
I have talked to Muslims and study Islam by former Muslims, so I am pretty sure Allah is the term we can use if we were to say it in Arabic. Here's a link that will help with that:
Hi, I see this post is from 2018 and I don't know how you have grown in this journey?

When I red this God reminded me about Israel worshipping the golden calf. They named it YHVH but because it was not YHVH it was an idol. Allah might be the Arabic term for God but it is for their pagan god not YHVH Elohim. A Muslim will not accept YHVH Elohim as their God and therefor it is not the Christian God they are worshipping.
 

vashweb2

Well-known member
May 30, 2018
71
250
53
#75
Hi, I see this post is from 2018 and I don't know how you have grown in this journey?

When I red this God reminded me about Israel worshipping the golden calf. They named it YHVH but because it was not YHVH it was an idol. Allah might be the Arabic term for God but it is for their pagan god not YHVH Elohim. A Muslim will not accept YHVH Elohim as their God and therefor it is not the Christian God they are worshipping.

I have some shocking news for you sir. The word in English, "God", is actually a pagan word for the Germanic tribes who worshiped Odin All-Father. If you wish to condemn Arabic word Allah then you must also condemn the Germanic word God.
 

vashweb2

Well-known member
May 30, 2018
71
250
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#76
Here is an example from the Prose Edda, and Icelandic text and offshoot of early Germanic. It is referring to the pagan Norse gods. It is one of the earliest texts demonstrating the usage of the pagan word "góð", "góðum" and "góða". It is where we get our word for God. Screenshot (95).png
 

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vashweb2

Well-known member
May 30, 2018
71
250
53
#77
Look for German, English, and Icelandic. They are all part of the same family.

 
Jan 25, 2015
6,618
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#78
I have some shocking news for you sir. The word in English, "God", is actually a pagan word for the Germanic tribes who worshiped Odin All-Father. If you wish to condemn Arabic word Allah then you must also condemn the Germanic word God.
I don't know if this is "shocking news"; maybe informative? But once we go down this road we are heading to salvation through pronunciation and that is problematic in its own right.

The fact is the name Jesus (like we use it today) is not a very old name because in Biblical times there was not a "J" letter or sound. Jesus was pronounced Iesous. So who are we worshipping today in church when we say Jesus?

The way do distinguish between gods is to look at their characteristics. YHVH does not have the same characteristics as Allah and therefor (if you are a Christian) he (Allah) is a false god. We have to investigate how we can say this? The Muslims claimed that some of their books they found were thousands of years old but through carbon dating it was proved that the oldest document was a mere 300 years old. This confirms the "rumors" about Mohammed that he was illiterate and could not read or write. The Koran was verbally transferred from generation to generation. (Wonder how many of man's interpretations landed up in there?).

Psalm 82 teach us that there are more than one Elohim (god) but YHVH is the Elohim (God). We can rest assure and use God as a description for YHVH.

Allah (like YHVH) is not a title but a name.

God bless brother.
 

vashweb2

Well-known member
May 30, 2018
71
250
53
#79
Again, you are wrong. Allah, as you see here, is the only word in Arabic for God. The argument to say that those who speak Arabic need to say God instead of Allah is the same argument to say those who God need to the Hebrew word Elohim. It is performing a double standard against those who speak Arabic and makes the person attempting to make the argument appear to be Islamophobic and racist.
Screenshot (96).png
 
Jan 25, 2015
6,618
1,334
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#80
Again, you are wrong. Allah, as you see here, is the only word in Arabic for God. The argument to say that those who speak Arabic need to say God instead of Allah is the same argument to say those who God need to the Hebrew word Elohim. It is performing a double standard against those who speak Arabic and makes the person attempting to make the argument appear to be Islamophobic and racist.
View attachment 222067
You can go and ask a Muslim if they worship YHVH and see their answer...