The Law of Sin and Death vs. The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus

Grace777x70 · Sep 17, 2016

Yes...if we live according to the flesh we will die before our time on this earth...sometimes it comes quicker then others while we are in this earth.

Take up shooting heroin in your arms today and you will be dead soon enough.

Now malice and slander and "things like these" as Gal 5:21 says - these show up in a different way in death. But in all this - the Christian is never not "in the Spirit". They are deceived or just not taught the true gospel of the grace of Christ as only grace teaches us how to live godly in this present world Titus 2:11-12.

That's why we should be teaching the true grace of Christ which only comes by total dependence on Christ by grace through faith. - not by works. The good works will manifest as the grace of Christ is brought to us.

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Only the grace of God will give us in this life on earth part of our inheritance that is ours because we are in Christ.

Acts 20:32 (NASB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

Good works do not "produce grace". Grace produces "good works" as a fruit of our union with Christ as the Holy Spirit transforms us outwardly to reflect our true nature which is already in us in our new creation in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness.

NarrowRoadDisciple · Sep 17, 2016

heavenly_bound said:

The Lord's Prayer is a model for how we as born again believers are to pray, not a cookie cutter prayer to use all the time. You ignore the prophetic aspect of the Lord's prayer as well as it speaks to the time when Christ's kingdom will be established physically on this earth not just through the actions of believers working by the Holy Spirit. So no, it's not an anti-Christ prayer as you state, but an understanding of what God is saying.

heavenly_bound said:

Sanctification IS a process. Believers are exhorted daily to die to flesh/crucify the flesh and present themselves as a living sacrifice before the Lord yes? Because we are exhorted to do something doesn't make it happen automatically. That is where the error lies. Sanctification is a life long process that begins after Justification. Paul describes the sanctification process as our race of faith. It is the narrow road walk of a born again believer. The end result of our Sanctification process would be glorification, receiving our glorified, perfect, and spiritual bodies. We currently have bodies of flesh which pull us away from the Lord. Remember.. "And we shall be changed," which refers to a future event. So no, we are not perfect now, since only the Lord is perfect. Sinless perfectionism is not scriptural. The Sanctification process includes allowing the Lord to prune us (cutting away that which is displeasing to Him) which is not comfortable for the moment just like the chastisement of the Lord, but in the end it will yield peaceable fruit. It is the process of allowing the Lord to change and transform us. We as believers are exhorted by God to find out what is pleasing to the Lord and walk in that.

valiant · Sep 17, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

No it is contrasting the unbeliever who walks after the flesh and will die, and the believer who walks after the Spirit, and has eternal life, and therefore mortifies the deeds of the body. The man born of the Spirit does not EVER walk after the flesh, although alas he may sometimes give way to the bodily desires. But the flesh never has dominion over him

seed_time_harvest · Sep 17, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

Sounded like you meant,that a person doesn't make It In unless they can stop sinning In the flesh and thats errant,but I think you are saying,a person has got to be born of the Spirit before they can mortify the deeds of the flesh,and that would be correct.

valiant · Sep 17, 2016

NarrowRoadDisciple said:

He was telling His disciples to pray 'may your kingly rule come (NOW), just as He told them to pray that His will be done (NOW).

They were appointed to establish the rule of God on earth from that time on, which they did and we continue to do. They were specifically told they should not bother about the longer distant future (Acts 1.7).

Otherwise He did not tell them to pray about their future ministry at all, which is impossible.

Grace777x70 · Sep 17, 2016

There is no scripture that says we are to " die daily to the flesh." That is what we were religiously taught in our church teachings.

Those that belong to Christ have crucified the flesh.

Galatians 5:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And they that areChrist's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

This "have crucified" is in the aorist indicative which means a one time event that happened in the past. This happened when we were sealed with the Holy Spirit when we received Christ. Eph. 1:13

Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

The flesh is now separated from our true inner man that is in Christ - created in righteousness and holiness. This is called the circumcision of Christ. Col 2:11

Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

It's in knowing these truths that we can walk free of the dominion of sin and work out that holiness that is already inside of us in the new creation in Christ which results in "godliness" being manifested in our lives for men to see and glorify our Lord.

Now we are alive to God!

Romans 6:5-8 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,

[SUP]6 [/SUP] knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him,in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;

[SUP]7 [/SUP] for he who has died is freed from sin.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,

Cee · Sep 17, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

If one is a believer, one is no longer in the flesh. If one is still in the flesh they are NOT a believer according to that Scripture.

Cee · Sep 17, 2016

The issue isn't that we are trying to make ourselves holy, the issue is that we don't believe we have been made holy.

Eph 4: 20But that is not the way you learned Christ!— 21assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, 22to put off your old self,[SUP]f[/SUP] which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, 23and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, 24and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

InSpiritInTruth · Sep 17, 2016

Cee said:

Nope, not necessarily...
1 Corinthians 3:1-4

3 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?"

Verily Verily, I say unto you, that there are many in these forums that are yet carnal and walk after the flesh.

Cee · Sep 17, 2016

Good point.

I would say these people had an unrenewed mind.

But Paul's argument is that the flesh is dead, so they should live as such.

So they need to be renewed in the spirit of their minds...

Which is putting off what is dead and putting on what is new.

InSpiritInTruth said:

Grace777x70 · Sep 17, 2016

Cee said:

I agree....Paul was saying that those in Corinth were acting like mere men and men of flesh - in other words not being spiritually minded.

1 Corinthians 3:1-4 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ.

[SUP]2 [/SUP] I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able,

[SUP]3 [/SUP] for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For when one says, "I am of Paul," and another, "I am of Apollos," are you not mere men?

I noticed that in verse 1 Paul says that they are "babes in Christ".

- not that you are going to hell because you are sinning. Or that because they were sinning - that they are not born of God.

heavenly_bound · Sep 18, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

first of all, who were those the lord was giving this command to? yes they( His desciples) did go to all nations, BUT to whom did they preach to the nations they went to? have you ever bothered to find out

disciplemike · Sep 18, 2016

heavenly_bound said:

with respect ma'am,
that is baloney.
This is the prayer He taught His disciples to use.
He did not say, "after I die, never say this prayer again".

why do you and a few others love to label something as "anti-Christ"?
I'm sorry, but to say the prayer that the Messiah taught is NOT anti-Christ.

heavenly_bound · Sep 18, 2016

NarrowRoadDisciple said:

The Lord's Prayer is a model for how we as born again believers are to pray, not a cookie cutter prayer to use all the time. You ignore the prophetic aspect of the Lord's prayer as well as it speaks to the time when Christ's kingdom will be established physically on this earth not just through the actions of believers working by the Holy Spirit. So no, it's not an anti-Christ prayer as you state, but an understanding of what God is saying.

Sanctification IS a process. Believers are exhorted daily to die to flesh/crucify the flesh and present themselves as a living sacrifice before the Lord yes? Because we are exhorted to do something doesn't make it happen automatically. That is where the error lies. Sanctification is a life long process that begins after Justification. Paul describes the sanctification process as our race of faith. It is the narrow road walk of a born again believer. The end result of our Sanctification process would be glorification, receiving our glorified, perfect, and spiritual bodies. We currently have bodies of flesh which pull us away from the Lord. Remember.. "And we shall be changed," which refers to a future event. So no, we are not perfect now, since only the Lord is perfect. Sinless perfectionism is not scriptural. The Sanctification process includes allowing the Lord to prune us (cutting away that which is displeasing to Him) which is not comfortable for the moment just like the chastisement of the Lord, but in the end it will yield peaceable fruit. It is the process of allowing the Lord to change and transform us. We as believers are exhorted by God to find out what is pleasing to the Lord and walk in that.

So the the sanctification of items and people in the OT was progressive? And also, when Christ prayed about his sanctification in Jn 17, does it imply that his Sanctification has to be progressive unto his glorification? i still insist that sanctification is instantaneous, while Godliness (God-likeness) is progressive.

disciplemike · Sep 18, 2016

So you are really saying that Christ taught the "anti-Christ" prayer?

valiant · Sep 18, 2016

InSpiritInTruth said:

yes these Christians were fleshly, yielding to fleshly desires, but they did not 'walk after the flesh'. They walked after the Spirit, whilst giving way as babes in Christ to the fleshly desires still within them.

Walking after the flesh means a total commitment to the flesh which no born again Christian CAN have and do..

Grace777x70 · Sep 18, 2016

disciplemike said:

Maybe this video will help you to see what is really being said concerning the Lord's prayer. Context is king! ( maybe this can help others too if they see what is really being said )

[video=youtube;Ujyb683RNtM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujyb683RNtM[/video]

disciplemike · Sep 18, 2016

Yeshua answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
John 7:16 (KJV, MBM)

I can of mine own self do nothing:
as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just;
because I seek not mine own will,
but the will of the Father which hath sent me.John 5:30 (KJV)

valiant · Sep 18, 2016

heavenly_bound said:

Sanctification has three aspects in the Letters.

First it is a state into which believers enter when God sanctifies them. ( 1 cor 1.2; 8.11; Acts 26.18; etc

secondly it is a process which the Christian goes through (Eph 5.25-27; Heb 9.14; 1 Thess 5.23; etc)

thirdly it is a goal which will be finally accomplished (1 Thess 4.3).

Thus I AM sanctified (and already holy in His sight as are all things separated to Him), I am BEING sanctified (being made like Him), and I will be sanctified (will finally be made holy)

heavenly_bound · Sep 18, 2016

disciplemike said:

My dear bro don't be mad at me for no reason. i have my reasons for saying this; and i repeat, IF ANYONE IS STILL PRAYING THE ' LORDS PRAYER" THE PRAYER THE LORD TAUGHT HIS DISCIPLE UNDER THE LAW, AS A PRAYER FOR THE CHURCH OF CHRIST TODAY? THAT PERSON IS NOT LIVING IN THE THE DISPENSATION OF THE CHURCH AGE!!!
now i am going proof it with scriptures. Now lets take a close look at what is generally known as the "Lords prayer"

1)OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN: In the OT He was based in heaven only, but He is now both in heaven and on earth (in his church which is the body of Christ)

2)HALLOW BE THY NAME: yes His name is still being hallowed both in heaven and on earth

3)THY KINGDOM COME: His kingdom has already come! Christ who is the fullness of the Godhead resides in the believer

4)THY WILL BE DONE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN: we cannot pray and ask that His will be done again bc His will for humanity has been done on earth by the son, and the Son has now commissioned us go and announced what has been done to the ends of the earth!

5) GIVE US THIS DAY OUR DAILY BREAD: "According as his power has given unto us ALL things that pertain unto life and godliness (2 Pet 1: 3)". all things have been given to us in Christ!!

6) AND FORGIVE US OUR TRESPASSES AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESS PASS AGAINST US: " And be you kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another even as God for Christ's sake HAS forgiven you( Eph 4:32), " I write to you little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name sake(1 Jn 2:12)" you can see here that we get to forgive because we have been forgive and not vice versa

7)AND LEAD US NOT INTO TEMPTATION: "let no man says when he is tempted, i am tempted of God God cannot be tempted with evil...(James 1:13)".

8)BUT DELIVER US FROM ALL EVIL: "who had delivered us for the power of darkness and has translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son (Col 1:13)"

There are many other scriptures that go to support this point that the believer in Christ; the church of Jesus Christ, can no longer pray the ''lords prayer". This is the reason why you cannot find the apostles praying this prayer anyway after the cross. bc they have understood that Christ had fulfilled all things, even the "Lords prayer"

So my beloved bro, desciplemike, let me know what you think. Blessed

The Law of Sin and Death vs. The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus

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