The Law of Sin and Death vs. The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus
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Here is quote from Grace 777 in another thread saying basically the same thing, that some of Jesus words are death
Jesus' words are Spirit and are Life, to attribute the words of Jesus as "death" and "killer scripture" is the same as attributing the works of the Holy Spirit as the same works of the Devil. This my friends is BLASPHEMY!
Preaching the red letters of Jesus is a bit like drinking whatever you find in the laundry. If you’re not paying attention – if you fail to distinguish His life-giving words of grace from His death-dealing words of law – then you could really do some damage. Don’t believe me? Then consider these red letters:
If you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Mat 6:14-15)
This is one of the most-quoted passages in the Bible and it is vintage law. It is a killer scripture. It is not good news.
Nonsense...read things in context...and then you won't be saying things that are not true. Isolating words out without seeing what was said about those words in context is mis-leading.
When we read the whole thing "in context" you will see what was said. BTW..that was an article - I didn't say them but I do agree with them.
Perhaps this article will give a little bit more perspective to what is really being said. Some words of Jesus brought death to their self-righteousness if you are a Pharisee and others brought life to those that knew they needed His grace.
How Should We Read the Words of Jesus?
Jesus is the greatest preacher of all time. He told stories and preached sermons the whole world needs to hear. The genius of Jesus is that he often preached one message with two punchlines. If you were confident of your own righteousness, you got law, but if you were not, you got grace.
Consider Jesus’ story of the Pharisee and the tax collector (Luke 18:9–14). Both men went to the temple to pray. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself. His prayer was a résumé. He thanked God that he was not like other men and bragged about his fasting and tithing. But the tax collector stood at a distance and prayed just seven words: “God, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus ends the story with a bombshell: “The tax collector went home justified before God.”
How does this parable make you feel? Does it fill you with joy or resentment?
Your response to the story is your response to the gospel. If you identify with the sinful tax collector, then this story is good news.
Really? He went home justified? That’s the scandal of grace right there. God justifies sinners (Romans 4:5). Search the parable for evidence of the tax collector’s good works or merit, and you’ll find nothing. Grace is for the undeserving. It’s for those without résumés.
But if you are confident of your self-righteousness, this story is not good news at all. “Wait a second. I fast. I tithe. I am better than other people. Jesus, what are you saying?” Jesus doesn’t mince his words. “Everyone who exalts himself will be humbled” (Luke 18:14). That’s a hard word for a hard heart. It’s a word that condemns the self-righteous and silences the boastful. It’s a word of law for those who don’t see their need for grace.
Jesus is brilliant at giving people exactly what they need. Consider the parable of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11–32). Some people love this story, others hate it. I’ve had people tell me, “I feel bad for the older brother. He worked so hard.” They say this because they are working hard.
They are good and decent and can’t understand why Jesus would throw a party for prodigals and not for them. It troubles them that we are inside whooping it up while they’re outside working on their résumés.
The story is real. Every one of us is in it and everyone is invited to the party. Grace is for all. But you’re going to have trouble receiving it if you think of your heavenly Father as an employer. And that’s the whole point. You’re going to have to change your mind about God or you will never enjoy his love.
Words mean different things to different people. If you identify with the tax collector or the prodigal, the words of Jesus are packed with radical grace. You’ll read them with praise and thanksgiving and whoops of joy. But if you identify with the Pharisee or the older brother, his words are extremely unsettling. They are serious words, not fun at all.
Yet if you allow them, the words of Jesus will change you. They will strip you of your religion and reveal your need for grace.
https://escapetoreality.org/2013/11/19/how-to-read-jesus/
I like to use this site sometimes because it has questions that people have and can ask at the bottom - I find that I learn from this as well.
If you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Mat 6:14-15)
This is one of the most-quoted passages in the Bible and it is vintage law. It is a killer scripture. It is not good news.
Nonsense...read things in context...and then you won't be saying things that are not true. Isolating words out without seeing what was said about those words in context is mis-leading.
When we read the whole thing "in context" you will see what was said. BTW..that was an article - I didn't say them but I do agree with them.
Perhaps this article will give a little bit more perspective to what is really being said. Some words of Jesus brought death to their self-righteousness if you are a Pharisee and others brought life to those that knew they needed His grace.
How Should We Read the Words of Jesus?
Jesus is the greatest preacher of all time. He told stories and preached sermons the whole world needs to hear. The genius of Jesus is that he often preached one message with two punchlines. If you were confident of your own righteousness, you got law, but if you were not, you got grace.
Consider Jesus’ story of the Pharisee and the tax collector (Luke 18:9–14). Both men went to the temple to pray. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself. His prayer was a résumé. He thanked God that he was not like other men and bragged about his fasting and tithing. But the tax collector stood at a distance and prayed just seven words: “God, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus ends the story with a bombshell: “The tax collector went home justified before God.”
How does this parable make you feel? Does it fill you with joy or resentment?
Your response to the story is your response to the gospel. If you identify with the sinful tax collector, then this story is good news.
Really? He went home justified? That’s the scandal of grace right there. God justifies sinners (Romans 4:5). Search the parable for evidence of the tax collector’s good works or merit, and you’ll find nothing. Grace is for the undeserving. It’s for those without résumés.
But if you are confident of your self-righteousness, this story is not good news at all. “Wait a second. I fast. I tithe. I am better than other people. Jesus, what are you saying?” Jesus doesn’t mince his words. “Everyone who exalts himself will be humbled” (Luke 18:14). That’s a hard word for a hard heart. It’s a word that condemns the self-righteous and silences the boastful. It’s a word of law for those who don’t see their need for grace.
Jesus is brilliant at giving people exactly what they need. Consider the parable of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11–32). Some people love this story, others hate it. I’ve had people tell me, “I feel bad for the older brother. He worked so hard.” They say this because they are working hard.
They are good and decent and can’t understand why Jesus would throw a party for prodigals and not for them. It troubles them that we are inside whooping it up while they’re outside working on their résumés.
The story is real. Every one of us is in it and everyone is invited to the party. Grace is for all. But you’re going to have trouble receiving it if you think of your heavenly Father as an employer. And that’s the whole point. You’re going to have to change your mind about God or you will never enjoy his love.
Words mean different things to different people. If you identify with the tax collector or the prodigal, the words of Jesus are packed with radical grace. You’ll read them with praise and thanksgiving and whoops of joy. But if you identify with the Pharisee or the older brother, his words are extremely unsettling. They are serious words, not fun at all.
Yet if you allow them, the words of Jesus will change you. They will strip you of your religion and reveal your need for grace.
https://escapetoreality.org/2013/11/19/how-to-read-jesus/
I like to use this site sometimes because it has questions that people have and can ask at the bottom - I find that I learn from this as well.
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it is misinterpreting the words of Jesus, but it is not blasphemy.
Jesus words are in fact true and apply today. They are NOT killer Scripture. An unforgiving spirit if known will prevent us having true fellowship with God. That is true. But it does not affect our final relationship with God, it merely makes us uncomfortable together until it is dealt with.
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Jesus words are in fact true and apply today. They are NOT killer Scripture. An unforgiving spirit if known will prevent us having true fellowship with God. That is true. But it does not affect our final relationship with God, it merely makes us uncomfortable together until it is dealt with.
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And again, you openly prove yourself a reprobate.
Proverbs 30:5
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Proverbs 30:5
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Being a disciple has to do with learning and following Christ's teachings and ways.
All who keep and continue in the word of God are called disciples to this day.
We are not only sons and daughters of God in Christ, but disciples as well.
I am a disciple of Christ, and so are you.
Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Disciple
(3):
(n.) One who receives instruction from another; a scholar; a learner; especially, a follower who has learned to believe in the truth of the doctrine of his teacher; an adherent in doctrine; as, the disciples of Plato; the disciples of our Savior.
If you have learned and kept the teachings of Christ, then you are a disciple of Christ.
That is what I see from the definition of the word, disciple, and the words of Jesus.
All who keep and continue in the word of God are called disciples to this day.
We are not only sons and daughters of God in Christ, but disciples as well.
I am a disciple of Christ, and so are you.
Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Disciple
(3):
(n.) One who receives instruction from another; a scholar; a learner; especially, a follower who has learned to believe in the truth of the doctrine of his teacher; an adherent in doctrine; as, the disciples of Plato; the disciples of our Savior.
If you have learned and kept the teachings of Christ, then you are a disciple of Christ.
That is what I see from the definition of the word, disciple, and the words of Jesus.
Nonsense....rightly dividing the scripture is essential to walking in the things of the Lord and to growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Proverbs 18:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.
Jesus' words spoke death to the self-righteous Pharisee types and His words still do today. Jesus' words of truth will "bury" those that rely on their own self-righteousness/holiness
People that take Jesus words to the Pharisee are bringing death to themselves by taking some one else's medicine. Don't take some one else's medicine - it's not for you.
Your continuous insults are meaningless....
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If His Kingdom, His Dominion was fully on Earth, wouldn't all sickness, death, pain, sorrow, depression etc, be gone too?
I believe His Kingdom, His Spirit us being poured out on all flesh, Joel 2. But it happens through us partnering with Heaven, we have the keys of the Kingdom. We bind what isn't and release what is in His Authority and Power.
Sharing the gospel of the Kingdom, aligns man into God's will, as sanctification, the soul agrees with Him, then we obey Him in more and more things bringing His Kingdom in greater levels through us and those we disciple.
I believe His Kingdom, His Spirit us being poured out on all flesh, Joel 2. But it happens through us partnering with Heaven, we have the keys of the Kingdom. We bind what isn't and release what is in His Authority and Power.
Sharing the gospel of the Kingdom, aligns man into God's will, as sanctification, the soul agrees with Him, then we obey Him in more and more things bringing His Kingdom in greater levels through us and those we disciple.
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Jesus words are spirit and life,so when Jesus said if you do not forgive others,then the Father will not forgive you,He is saying forgive others,which He did say that.
When Jesus went against the Pharisees,what He was saying is stop being like that and accept Me.
So whether Jesus said believe on Me,and you will be saved,or if you do not believe on Me,you will not be saved,however He put it,He is saying believe on Me,and you will be saved.
For when He said accept,and you will be saved,He is saying believe on Me,or He rebuked people,and said,if you do not accept,you will not be saved,He is saying believe on Me,for to those that accept,good,for those that do not,stop being like that and accept.
It is all good,for those He went against He is still preaching the words of spirit and life,for He is saying stop being like that,and accept Me,for Jesus did not come in to this world to condemn,but to save.
All Jesus' words are spirit and life,for you accept,good,you do not accept,change and accept,if you know what is good for you.
When Jesus went against the Pharisees,what He was saying is stop being like that and accept Me.
So whether Jesus said believe on Me,and you will be saved,or if you do not believe on Me,you will not be saved,however He put it,He is saying believe on Me,and you will be saved.
For when He said accept,and you will be saved,He is saying believe on Me,or He rebuked people,and said,if you do not accept,you will not be saved,He is saying believe on Me,for to those that accept,good,for those that do not,stop being like that and accept.
It is all good,for those He went against He is still preaching the words of spirit and life,for He is saying stop being like that,and accept Me,for Jesus did not come in to this world to condemn,but to save.
All Jesus' words are spirit and life,for you accept,good,you do not accept,change and accept,if you know what is good for you.
H
no, and so? all you do is judge! why can't you asked if all believers i know really do acknowledge Christ as their life? when will you understand that the gospel is about Christ and not the individual? if the believer could saved himself, then there would have been no need for a savior. and if the believer didn't start it, then its not up to him to finish it either. For He who has started this good work will equally carry it through! Now tell me how does one receive Christ? by faith right. then how is the believer suppose to walk in godliness? The same way he received Christ!!
look we are never at the center of the gospel, whether in our successes or failures. That is too hard for you to swallow i know.
look we are never at the center of the gospel, whether in our successes or failures. That is too hard for you to swallow i know.
Jesus said the kingdom of God comes without observation,for they will not say here it is,or there it is,for the kingdom of God is within you,which the saints display the kingdom of God's ways,by the Holy Spirit.
So the kingdom of God in its entirety is not on earth.
During the millennial reign of Christ,God will spare one sixth of the world that fought against Israel,and all that is left of the nations have to go up year after year to worship the LORD,which those are the people that Jesus and the saints rule over.
They took the mark of the beast,but God postponed their judgment until the end of the millennial reign,which then they are judged.
So the kingdom of God is not on earth in its entirety,although it will be Jesus that will rule,and everybody will only recognize Him,but there is still people in the flesh,and at the end of the millennial reign,Satan is loosed from the bottomless pit,and stirs them up to go against the saints,so the millennial reign is not entirely God's kingdom.
The New Jerusalem is a place of only God,and Jesus,the saints,and the angels,where sin has never been,and sin will never be,and rebellion will never rear its ugly head again,and the Bible says that it is a new earth,and a new heaven,and the former earth shall not be remembered,nor come to mind.
That is the kingdom of God in its entirety,for it is completely God's way.
Jesus said thy will be done on earth,as it is in heaven,which that never happens on earth,even during the millennial reign,because of the people in the flesh that took the mark of the beast,but God postponed their judgment,and they go against the saints at the end of the millennial reign and are judged then.
So the kingdom of God is not in its entirety on earth,but can only be in its entirety in the New Jerusalem,for His kingdom would have no rebellion,and only consist of the saints.
But the kingdom of God can display the kingdom of God,but the world will not,and in the millennial reign Jesus rules,and they obey,but there is still people of the flesh that rebelled against God,but God postponed their judgment,and they go against the saints at the end of the reign,so that is not the kingdom of God in its entirety.
Only the New Jerusalem is fully the kingdom come,and the entirety of the kingdom of God.
So the kingdom of God in its entirety is not on earth.
During the millennial reign of Christ,God will spare one sixth of the world that fought against Israel,and all that is left of the nations have to go up year after year to worship the LORD,which those are the people that Jesus and the saints rule over.
They took the mark of the beast,but God postponed their judgment until the end of the millennial reign,which then they are judged.
So the kingdom of God is not on earth in its entirety,although it will be Jesus that will rule,and everybody will only recognize Him,but there is still people in the flesh,and at the end of the millennial reign,Satan is loosed from the bottomless pit,and stirs them up to go against the saints,so the millennial reign is not entirely God's kingdom.
The New Jerusalem is a place of only God,and Jesus,the saints,and the angels,where sin has never been,and sin will never be,and rebellion will never rear its ugly head again,and the Bible says that it is a new earth,and a new heaven,and the former earth shall not be remembered,nor come to mind.
That is the kingdom of God in its entirety,for it is completely God's way.
Jesus said thy will be done on earth,as it is in heaven,which that never happens on earth,even during the millennial reign,because of the people in the flesh that took the mark of the beast,but God postponed their judgment,and they go against the saints at the end of the millennial reign and are judged then.
So the kingdom of God is not in its entirety on earth,but can only be in its entirety in the New Jerusalem,for His kingdom would have no rebellion,and only consist of the saints.
But the kingdom of God can display the kingdom of God,but the world will not,and in the millennial reign Jesus rules,and they obey,but there is still people of the flesh that rebelled against God,but God postponed their judgment,and they go against the saints at the end of the reign,so that is not the kingdom of God in its entirety.
Only the New Jerusalem is fully the kingdom come,and the entirety of the kingdom of God.