Some common misconceptions about God;
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Okay, Jm, wait...I'm willing to admit that it could be my own interpretation to think that God telling satan: very well then, he is in your hands, do with him as you please (and then giving the limit satan must hold to), is God granting permission for satan to sift Job and his faith and trust, etc.
So tell me what your interpretation of that thrice repeated passage is. What is your interpretation of: very well, he is in your hands, do with him as you please, only don't...etc., etc. We have a repeated passage that is: then God said. Are you saying you think God didn't say what it says God said...or...what? Whats your interpretation of the phrase?
So tell me what your interpretation of that thrice repeated passage is. What is your interpretation of: very well, he is in your hands, do with him as you please, only don't...etc., etc. We have a repeated passage that is: then God said. Are you saying you think God didn't say what it says God said...or...what? Whats your interpretation of the phrase?
No, that's fulfilling Eph 5
6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7Therefore do not be partakers with them; 8for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light 9(for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), 10trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; 12for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret. 13But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light.
This post exposed your hand.
As soon as you started projecting on me it became clear. It also confirms you're the one abusing grace.
Projection is a device that, once exposed, will show everything about the person using it.
Those that are deluded seem to have no clue they're exposing their real self when using it.
Thank you Davida for inadvertently telling us about yourself.
[/QUOTE
Wrong, I leave the judging to God, and because she loves God her focus is on Him.
Maybe less psychology books and more Bible...
Less speaking and more loving
6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7Therefore do not be partakers with them; 8for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light 9(for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), 10trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; 12for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret. 13But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light.
This post exposed your hand.
As soon as you started projecting on me it became clear. It also confirms you're the one abusing grace.
Projection is a device that, once exposed, will show everything about the person using it.
Those that are deluded seem to have no clue they're exposing their real self when using it.
Thank you Davida for inadvertently telling us about yourself.
[/QUOTEWrong, I leave the judging to God, and because she loves God her focus is on Him.
Maybe less psychology books and more Bible...
Less speaking and more loving
Or.... maybe they read what Mr. Ellis was saying and appreciated it because they ARE big on Biblical soundness....And maybe.... they don't see Job the same as many do here because maybe he isn't going by the doctrines of men?
Because God does not give just to take away and that when Job made that statement about God., it was Job's ideas about God and not the truth of what God is or does. Job said many wrong things about God in the beginning of his journey of learning about God. (just as many of us have) And Job had yet to learn the truth about the goodness and kindness and loveliness of God.
That's my opinion on P.Ellis. I like what he says and have read him out all the way through much of his posts so I know he is not a fly by night heretic by any means. Personally., I've never put much on awards but people get them for a reason and all the Christians who make up the Guild of Christian Writers seem to think Paul is worthy of a silver metal award... although people on this thread have no use for him or his writings.
LOL the guy can't catch a break no matter what he writes or how many awards he gets or how much investigation is done... he's found to be innocent of being a liar yet still he's a shyster according to many here. All I can do is shake my head and beThankful the brothers and sisters in the body of Christ are not limited to this thread.
Thank you Marc for taking the time to investigate the paper trail. And thank you for agreeing to disagree.
Nothing you have is something you have unless God gave it. Conversely, no one would have any power to take away what God gives unless either A. God allowed it for His own reason and purposes or B: they willingly gave it up.
E
No, that's fulfilling Eph 5
6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7Therefore do not be partakers with them; 8for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light 9(for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), 10trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; 12for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret. 13But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light.
This post exposed your hand.
As soon as you started projecting on me it became clear. It also confirms you're the one abusing grace.
Projection is a device that, once exposed, will show everything about the person using it.
Those that are deluded seem to have no clue they're exposing their real self when using it.
Thank you Davida for inadvertently telling us about yourself.[/QUOTE
Wrong, I leave the judging to God, and because she loves God her focus is on Him.
Maybe less psychology books and more Bible...
Less speaking and more loving
6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7Therefore do not be partakers with them; 8for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light 9(for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), 10trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; 12for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret. 13But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light.
This post exposed your hand.
As soon as you started projecting on me it became clear. It also confirms you're the one abusing grace.
Projection is a device that, once exposed, will show everything about the person using it.
Those that are deluded seem to have no clue they're exposing their real self when using it.
Thank you Davida for inadvertently telling us about yourself.
[/QUOTEWrong, I leave the judging to God, and because she loves God her focus is on Him.
Maybe less psychology books and more Bible...
Less speaking and more loving
I think it is very backwards to say that Jesus lost His life because satan is the ruler of this world and to say that it is a painful fact. NO ONE, including satan, took Jesus' life because of any power over Him. He GAVE His life willingly. It wasn't strongarmed from Him...He had the power to lay it down or not lay it down, to ask for legions of angels or not ask for legions of angels. If you take away His WILLING sacrifice, you take away everything JM.
7
I don't read her posts anymore nor respond to them
is that what she is saying?
I read enough of Ellis' garbage to see the really sneaky way he twists scripture
you are correct in saying Jesus gave up His life...as you know
this teaching deviates from the truth of God's word and leads people down a path that is not of God
that's about all you can say...pointing out the error only seems to egg them on
sometimes you just leave people to their pig slop and they will think that they have won in some fashion, but time gives ample opportunity for the lies to work in the lives of those who adhere to them and when that happens, they may turn from the lie and turn to God
I've seen it happen but it never happens without pain
Well...I think JM is a woman, just like me, who struggles with hard things and trying to understand why God allows them for His children.
It reminds me of when my sister took her little girl to the doctor and the doctor gave her shots. In the car, Lainie was still crying and said: mom, why did you let him hurt me?! She was very distraught that her mother would let someone hurt her. It was awful to see. Now how could my sister explain to a three year old that she let it happen for her own good?? A three year old can't understand that concept. She doesn't have the training and practice to deal with that concept yet.
I've had some hard and hurtful things come to me and I was angry with God. I wasn't outright angry but was more...peevish and hurt? I was...morbid in my hurt, in weary resignation that I wasn't going to complain. Of course, He sees my heart so that was ridiculous, but...distance came and growth in virtue came and I could then see what it was He had been working at. Which led to more surrender and acceptance of the next set of hard or painful circumstances. They didn't appear to me to be so awful this time because I now trusted that He was bringing them to me for good purposes. Still can't say I liked them though. But there was acceptance and willingness to suffer what He brought to me for my great good.
I stopped seeing bread as a stone, I guess. There's a lot of reckoning in it. Sort of like, well, it feels hard like a stone, but He has said He will not give me a stone when I ask for bread, so it either really isn't a stone and I just can't see it yet or He will turn it INTO bread for my soul...
It reminds me of when my sister took her little girl to the doctor and the doctor gave her shots. In the car, Lainie was still crying and said: mom, why did you let him hurt me?! She was very distraught that her mother would let someone hurt her. It was awful to see. Now how could my sister explain to a three year old that she let it happen for her own good?? A three year old can't understand that concept. She doesn't have the training and practice to deal with that concept yet.
I've had some hard and hurtful things come to me and I was angry with God. I wasn't outright angry but was more...peevish and hurt? I was...morbid in my hurt, in weary resignation that I wasn't going to complain. Of course, He sees my heart so that was ridiculous, but...distance came and growth in virtue came and I could then see what it was He had been working at. Which led to more surrender and acceptance of the next set of hard or painful circumstances. They didn't appear to me to be so awful this time because I now trusted that He was bringing them to me for good purposes. Still can't say I liked them though. But there was acceptance and willingness to suffer what He brought to me for my great good.
I stopped seeing bread as a stone, I guess. There's a lot of reckoning in it. Sort of like, well, it feels hard like a stone, but He has said He will not give me a stone when I ask for bread, so it either really isn't a stone and I just can't see it yet or He will turn it INTO bread for my soul...
7
I guess you just do not see that you are 'using' the name of Jesus to make an accusation
Jesus is not your back up buddy and He is not mine nor anyone else's either
you don't like what he said...I have no clue what Jesus thinks about it, but I do know this thread is full of false statements with regards to what Ellis is trying to teach
I am not taking sides here...just pointing out the obvious
perhaps you agree with Ellis...I don't know
Exodus 33:11
And the Lord spake into Moses face to face, Aas a man speakers into his FRIEND. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Jousha, the son of Nun, a young man departed not out of the tabernackle.
So want to quibble about the difference between friend and buddy?
It is not disrespect to consider Jesus our friend.
And the Lord spake into Moses face to face, Aas a man speakers into his FRIEND. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Jousha, the son of Nun, a young man departed not out of the tabernackle.
So want to quibble about the difference between friend and buddy?
It is not disrespect to consider Jesus our friend.
D
I remember when I was little, a nurse coming to my bed, lifting up my hospital jammies, and redressing a big cut. I also remember, a very short while later, being in my grandmother's house, needing to go to the bathroom, but it hurt too much to stand up and go. I called Mom to help me, and she told me that it would hurt for a while, but I would have to learn to live with it or it wouldn't get better. BUT, she took me to the bathroom that time, as I stayed in my crossed-leg position, and she lifted me under the armpits. (I admire her strong back for being able to not only lift a child in that position, but carry the child half a house away to a bathroom. lol)
My memories tell me I considered myself a "big kid" then. I really did, because I'm one of the older grandkids, so many cousins were younger than I was. In my mind I see myself at 3-4. But one time I told Dad these memories, and he told me I couldn't possibly remember them. I was too young. My dad has always been OCD, so, not only did he keep records of every dime he ever spent, he really kept those records. (I was married when this conversation happened, yet he could pull out his books from when I was born, and they weren't even the first books. lol) Ends up, I was 18 months when it happened and that "cut" wasn't merely a cut. Like many children, I was born with a hernia in my lower abdomen. My two older brothers had it too, and Dad being Dad, he was just sure he couldn't possibly have to spend that money again. And so, Mom had to wait for me to be crying hard enough not to stop crying by the time she carried me to Dad so he could see it. (I don't remember when I learned not to cry around Dad, because crying around Dad meant "I'll give you something to cry over," and I had mostly learned that before this time.)
18 months, and I got that I'd have to walk on my own even in pain or the pain gets worse. Can't say I got why it would get worse. I just got "I don't want it worse." I think we underestimate how early kids can understand why. Sure, Mom explaining all about hernias wasn't going to do it for me, but telling me if this didn't happen worse does, did work for me, even not happy with the pain part.
And those lessons stick with us as we continue to grow. (And to think, by now I'd take that cut-me-open pain easily, compared to what has happened since. lol) And we keep growing and learning new things as we go along, even if we're not happy with the new thing we learn. And then when we come to the Lord, he tends to make it harder and harder, so we remember to cling hard, and know he has us firmly in hand. AND, as for me, I am rarely a happy-camper with his harder-and-harder lessons, until the lesson is done and I realize he grew me even when I didn't necessarily think I needed, or wanted, to grow. BUT, I like the change. It's always a good change. (Which makes it more annoying, because change hurts. lol)
I disagree with you ultimately, (and respectfully.)
First, Joan is not three.
Second, she is not trying to figure out God anymore. (And "anymore" is with the hope that at least she did try at one time. I, personally, have not witnessed it, but I've only known her for three years, so not very long.) I really do get we can see different things in scripture than other people see, however, once you start saying scripture says something when it clearly says the opposite of that, (aka my reoccurring question that she has intentionally not answered, because, yes, she agrees with Ellis that the Book of Job is a lie), that's not trying to figure out God. That is open rebellion against God.
And that she is trying to convince Christians into this nonsense, says something else. A word I have only used three times in my life, because it is such a harsh word. Not just a harsh word, but it is a line in the sand. The moment in time when I stop believing God will save someone. Heretic!
She is a heretic trying to steal God's people away from him to join in her fantasy. Or truthfully, to pull people away from the Lord.
(BTW, Joan, if you don't want to be called a heretic, then stop being a heretic! Stop saying the Bible is a lie. This is NOT "interpretation." It is LIE. That first sentence Ellis wrote and you agree with is a lie! 100% lie. You can't even squeeze a little bit of truth out of it no matter how much double-talk you do. A well-done lie has 90% truth in it. This is 100% lie. Not well done at all!)
My memories tell me I considered myself a "big kid" then. I really did, because I'm one of the older grandkids, so many cousins were younger than I was. In my mind I see myself at 3-4. But one time I told Dad these memories, and he told me I couldn't possibly remember them. I was too young. My dad has always been OCD, so, not only did he keep records of every dime he ever spent, he really kept those records. (I was married when this conversation happened, yet he could pull out his books from when I was born, and they weren't even the first books. lol) Ends up, I was 18 months when it happened and that "cut" wasn't merely a cut. Like many children, I was born with a hernia in my lower abdomen. My two older brothers had it too, and Dad being Dad, he was just sure he couldn't possibly have to spend that money again. And so, Mom had to wait for me to be crying hard enough not to stop crying by the time she carried me to Dad so he could see it. (I don't remember when I learned not to cry around Dad, because crying around Dad meant "I'll give you something to cry over," and I had mostly learned that before this time.)
18 months, and I got that I'd have to walk on my own even in pain or the pain gets worse. Can't say I got why it would get worse. I just got "I don't want it worse." I think we underestimate how early kids can understand why. Sure, Mom explaining all about hernias wasn't going to do it for me, but telling me if this didn't happen worse does, did work for me, even not happy with the pain part.
And those lessons stick with us as we continue to grow. (And to think, by now I'd take that cut-me-open pain easily, compared to what has happened since. lol) And we keep growing and learning new things as we go along, even if we're not happy with the new thing we learn. And then when we come to the Lord, he tends to make it harder and harder, so we remember to cling hard, and know he has us firmly in hand. AND, as for me, I am rarely a happy-camper with his harder-and-harder lessons, until the lesson is done and I realize he grew me even when I didn't necessarily think I needed, or wanted, to grow. BUT, I like the change. It's always a good change. (Which makes it more annoying, because change hurts. lol)
I disagree with you ultimately, (and respectfully.)
First, Joan is not three.
Second, she is not trying to figure out God anymore. (And "anymore" is with the hope that at least she did try at one time. I, personally, have not witnessed it, but I've only known her for three years, so not very long.) I really do get we can see different things in scripture than other people see, however, once you start saying scripture says something when it clearly says the opposite of that, (aka my reoccurring question that she has intentionally not answered, because, yes, she agrees with Ellis that the Book of Job is a lie), that's not trying to figure out God. That is open rebellion against God.
And that she is trying to convince Christians into this nonsense, says something else. A word I have only used three times in my life, because it is such a harsh word. Not just a harsh word, but it is a line in the sand. The moment in time when I stop believing God will save someone. Heretic!
She is a heretic trying to steal God's people away from him to join in her fantasy. Or truthfully, to pull people away from the Lord.
(BTW, Joan, if you don't want to be called a heretic, then stop being a heretic! Stop saying the Bible is a lie. This is NOT "interpretation." It is LIE. That first sentence Ellis wrote and you agree with is a lie! 100% lie. You can't even squeeze a little bit of truth out of it no matter how much double-talk you do. A well-done lie has 90% truth in it. This is 100% lie. Not well done at all!)
I have found in my observations of Jesus in the Bible and in my own life that He is the giver of all things. And when I want to find out about God., the clear path to God is Christ. Jesus never gave and took away. Jesus is the pure representation of God. I have found as I look at all the Scriptures through the lens of Jesus that God always loves us., always gives to us., always wants us to walk in the path set before us by Him. When we don't, bad things happen because "we take ourselves" out of the hedge of protection., not God.
God doesn't punish us for leaving. He doesn't have to because as with Job., we start walking in our own understanding about God. We insist on walking out our own truth and so we are open to many bad things from 3 places.... 1. The world .... 2. The flesh.... 3. The devil.... Not God.
We have a choice now because we have the Holy Spirit and we have been made new creations in Christ as born again. Where as the unbelievers do not. We have the Holy Spirit and He is ready and willing to lead us into all truth. But many of us are still walking in our own understanding about who God is and how God works in our lives.
I'm aware that many here on this thread do not agree with me about many things including Job. It doesn't change my path of reason that Jesus is the One who I look at when I read anything in the Bible. I see we Christians belong in the new covenant (post Cross) I see all from the vantage point of Jesus having brought in the new covenant of grace. The law is no longer my guide., Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit to be our Teacher., Guide., Comforter. The law is now obsolete ., the old is gone, the new has come. We are to be guided by the Holy Spirit.
We all have choices on how we will follow Jesus. As I stated before using the sheep vs cattle analogy.... The Good Shepherd goes before the sheep. He doesn't get behind us and slap us with the rod and the staff. That sort of thing is for cattle and we are not cattle., we are the sheep of His pasture.
Jesus goes before us and His sheep hear His voice and follow. When we don't, we get off the path of safety., security., blessing and truth and go off and get tangled up in the brush where there are thorns and burdocks messing us up. And also wolves can come and bite on us and even kill us. But the Shepherd will come and get us when we holler out to Him.
But some won't holler out to Jesus because some sheep actually believe it is the Good Shepherd who is putting them in the brush., throwing them to the wolves so they say... this is Your doing and Your will Jesus so I'll take it as coming from you. I'll suffer for Jesus sake....So they don't resist the devil so the devil will not flee., they accept his evil as coming from Jesus. This is a slap in the face of the loving hand of Jesus calling good evil and evil good. This is not something I do anymore. I know from where my HELP COMES FROM. My help comes from the LORD.