2 Peter 2 (Let's get into it)

[BillG]

There is a big list to cover

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:19-21
Results of the Sinful Nature
When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:5
You can be sure that no immoral, impure, or greedy person will inherit the Kingdom of Christ and of God. For a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world.




Colossians 3:5
So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don’t be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world.

What I find interesting when we look at verses following the above

1 Corinthians 6:11
Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Ephesians 5:8-9
For once you were full of darkness, but now you have light from the Lord. So live as people of light! For this light within you produces only what is good and right and true.

Colossians 3:7-10
You used to do these things when your life was still part of this world. But now is the time to get rid of anger, rage, malicious behavior, slander, and dirty language. Don’t lie to each other, for you have stripped off your old sinful nature and all its wicked deeds. Put on your new nature, and be renewed as you learn to know your Creator and become like him.

I think possibly the sins being addressed were rampant in the churches being addressed (correct me if I'm wrong)

To me it seems to be saying, "This is what you were, but now your not, you have set apart, made right with God through faith and are now children of God, so start behaving like his children"

I like the end of Col 3:10, be renewed as you LEARN to know your Creator and become like him.

 

[Chris1975]

I would not evangelize to them until the Holy Spirit brings them into repentance through God's goodness.

Man for a guy that writes reams of stuff, you seem to be lost on the Gospel, but long in the tooth on theology.

Notice how the question wasn't addressed to you?

 

[Chris1975]

No kidding really!? thank you captain obvious, but we do not obey him our of fear of losing our salvation. We obey him out of awe and reverence over who he is and what he did for us when he purchased us .

Are you really sure you understand the Gospel? The only thing you seem to understand is works based conditional self performance and effort.

So your "obedience" is then merely optional. A nicety, but not mandatory.

Your gospel reminds me of the man who built his house on the sand........

 

[BillG]

Stop confusing the Kingdom of God which is in you with the the next life to come.


Jesus said in Luke 17.21 that the Kingdom of God was within us, not the Kingdom of Heaven.
The Kingdom of Heaven is God's abode.

This whole thing unravels because of the false teaching that heaven is our final destination, Revelation 21 teaches no such thing. If we teach people they are going to heaven then you can use each one of the verses above to suggest works based salvation all day long.

Eternal Life is being one with God and Christ, salvation is staying delivered and forgiven. We inherit the Kingdom of God when we confess with our mouth and believe in our hearts.

The shedding of blood and the cross do not grant you eternal life do you they? The Bible says the shedding of blood is for the remission/forgiveness of SIN and the ransom/payment /deliverance from the powers of darkness.

John 17.3 Jesus says eternal life is this, that they know God and me!

The Kingdom of God is the temple of the Holy Spirit and that temple is where? IS YOUR BODY NOW!

So you must work our your own deliverance and forgiveness with fear and trembling, but thank Jesus we have the Holy Spirit and empowering grace to do in our spirit what we can never do in our flesh and that is abstain from:
sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these.

Some of you are clinging to a counterfeit cross and not the nearly to good to be true Gospel

Not sure what what your first sentence means.

Maybe I should have made myself clearer.

I was adding all the things listed in the N.T. as people tend to focus on the few biggies.

No one ever seems to mention quarrelling, or anger.

So my intention was to put them all out there.

I do not promote work based salvation and that was not my intention.

Sorry that I did not give the right impression.

 

[Chris1975]

I would not evangelize to them until the Holy Spirit brings them into repentance through God's goodness.

Man for a guy that writes reams of stuff, you seem to be lost on the Gospel, but long in the tooth on theology.

But since you interjected...let's explore. You expect the Holy Spirit to bring them to repentance? How? They don't believe they are doing anything wrong? How will they get to know the will of God?

 

[Meggido]

If I could add a suggestion. I would suggest Christ saves us through His faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works, not a faith that comes after the imaginations of ones own heart.

The key is the faith in veiw belongs to God's own self it is the free gift of God. and not that of our own selves.

If we would say God does not have or need faith the whole second chapter of James is made without effect.

So we are saved by works through the faith of Christ that works in us to both will and do His good purpose.

The parable below gives us some insight into the matter.

Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?Seest thou how faith( Christ’s) wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

Was not Abraham our father justified by the work of God that worked in Abraham to both will and do His good pleasure. Therefore by that work Christ worked in Abraham making the faith of Christ perfect. Christ is the author and perfecter of His faith that he freely give to us with no cost o our behalf.

It is not Christ's faith that saves you. Many on this site believe this because the are not taught properly what he true meaning of what the gift of Faith is in 1 Cor 12 and a gross and flagrant misinterpretation of Eph 2.8-9 and 2 Tim 2.13. This is one single verses put together should never be used to build a doctrine or theology.

Abraham was not made righteousness by Christ Faith, because Christ had not been sent yet. Abraham was made righteous because of exercising his own personal faith. Faith is a personal action. James 2.21-22 is saying that Abraham's works were the action to his personal faith and because he actually did what God said, his faith was not Christs perfect faith, it was that Abraham's personal faith matured/perfected. If what you say is true that it was Christ's faith in Abraham, why did Abraham have to actually go to Mt. Moriah with Isaac at all?

Where in blue blazes do people get this stuff from!!?!?!

If we say it is Christs faith that saves a man entirely then we have to throw out ALL of the Bible.

 

[valiant]

Originally Posted by Meggido

No kidding really!? thank you captain obvious, but we do not obey him our of fear of losing our salvation. We obey him out of awe and reverence over who he is and what he did for us when he purchased us .

Are you really sure you understand the Gospel? The only thing you seem to understand is works based conditional self performance and effort.

So your "obedience" is then merely optional. A nicety, but not mandatory.

We are more bound to obedience precisely because we do it voluntarily. God isn't standing over us with a big whip. We obey because we love Him, not out of cowardly fear.

Your gospel reminds me of the man who built his house on the sand........

you don't really seem to have a Gospel at all.

 

[valiant]

But since you interjected...let's explore. You expect the Holy Spirit to bring them to repentance? How? They don't believe they are doing anything wrong? How will they get to know the will of God?

By the Holy Spirit bringing them to repentance.

 

[Meggido]

But since you interjected...let's explore. You expect the Holy Spirit to bring them to repentance? How? They don't believe they are doing anything wrong? How will they get to know the will of God?

Proverbs 16.6, Romans 2.4, John 16.5-11,

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Knowledge...

The knowledge that begins the fear of the Lord is when the Spirit of wisdom[holy spirit] reveals in your heart what a wretched sinner and depraved person you truly are. This is done by mercy and truth, not yelling about lake of fire end games.

Most of those we have ministered to in this lifestyle said the conviction they felt form the Holy Spirit was a love they have never encountered and contrary to religion, this is why most of them engage in this lifestyle to begin with. They were never truly loved and they are seeking for it anyway they can.

A person cannot fear the Lord and depart from evil until mercy and truth have purged the iniquity. The truth is not that engaging in homosexuality is sending them to hell. The truth is that their unbelief in God and what Jesus did for them is sending them to hell. Stop stack ranking one sin and ignoring the vast amount of straight mega churches today that have all sorts of the works of the flesh going on.

Until the church gets it right, they have no business telling others how to get it right!

Maybe instead of being the Holy Spirit you let the Holy Spirit do his thing in the life of that homosexual you keep railing on about. He will and can do it better than me and you or us combined.

I have seen many homosexuals and child molesters come to Christ without preaching any message on hell fire, judgement or damnation. Preach Jesus and then let the Holy Spirit pierce them.

Works all the time, then we are able to begin proper discipleship and them transition from a previous immoral lifestyle into a moral lifestyle. This never happens overnight, only self righteous religion thinks that

 

[Chris1975]

By the Holy Spirit bringing them to repentance.

Or instead what the Bible states:

Romans 10
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,[h]
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”[i]



The Holy Spirit works on the heart of the hearer. How can they hear if you do not go preach?

 

[Meggido]

Or instead what the Bible states:

Romans 10
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,[h]
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”[i]



The Holy Spirit works on the heart of the hearer. How can they hear if you do not go preach?

When Jesus was in the midst of sinners did he preach to them or simply eat and fellowship with them?

Be careful here, it might trip you up

 

[Chris1975]

Proverbs 16.6, Romans 2.4, John 16.5-11,

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Knowledge...

The knowledge that begins the fear of the Lord is when the Spirit of wisdom[holy spirit] reveals in your heart what a wretched sinner and depraved person you truly are. This is done by mercy and truth, not yelling about lake of fire end games.

Most of those we have ministered to in this lifestyle said the conviction they felt form the Holy Spirit was a love they have never encountered and contrary to religion, this is why most of them engage in this lifestyle to begin with. They were never truly loved and they are seeking for it anyway they can.

A person cannot fear the Lord and depart from evil until mercy and truth have purged the iniquity. The truth is not that engaging in homosexuality is sending them to hell. The truth is that their unbelief in God and what Jesus did for them is sending them to hell. Stop stack ranking one sin and ignoring the vast amount of straight mega churches today that have all sorts of the works of the flesh going on.

Until the church gets it right, they have no business telling others how to get it right!

Maybe instead of being the Holy Spirit you let the Holy Spirit do his thing in the life of that homosexual you keep railing on about. He will and can do it better than me and you or us combined.

I have seen many homosexuals and child molesters come to Christ without preaching any message on hell fire, judgement or damnation. Preach Jesus and then let the Holy Spirit pierce them.

Works all the time, then we are able to begin proper discipleship and them transition from a previous immoral lifestyle into a moral lifestyle. This never happens overnight, only self righteous religion thinks that

Lol. So child molesters can continue in child molestation (whilst having Christ), until they feel its not right anymore? You won't find any of these assertions in scripture. You make up theology to accommodate your sins.

 

[Meggido]

Not sure what what your first sentence means.

Maybe I should have made myself clearer.

I was adding all the things listed in the N.T. as people tend to focus on the few biggies.

No one ever seems to mention quarrelling, or anger.

So my intention was to put them all out there.

I do not promote work based salvation and that was not my intention.

Sorry that I did not give the right impression.

no need Bill, I need to apologize for not clearly understanding what you were posting., So sorry and now that you clarified it, I agree!

 

[Chris1975]

When Jesus was in the midst of sinners did he preach to them or simply eat and fellowship with them?

Be careful here, it might trip you up

Both. He was not silent.

 

[Meggido]

Both. He was not silent.

I think you better go look at Mark 2 and Luke 5 again.

The only person Jesus preached to in both accounts were the religious and self righteous.

 

[Chris1975]

I think you better go look at Mark 2 and Luke 5 again.

The only person Jesus preached to in both accounts were the religious and self righteous.

To how many did Jesus preach the sermon on the mount?
And when Jesus preached to and fed 5000, and later the 4000?
And when Jesus preached to the woman caught in adultery --- go and sin no more?

Really shallow understanding you have. Try reading the Bible. Then come back and teach. If you have it right.

 

[Meggido]

Lol. So child molesters can continue in child molestation (whilst having Christ), until they feel its not right anymore? You won't find any of these assertions in scripture. You make up theology to accommodate your sins.

Where did I ever say that!?!?! There is a change that comes from coming to Christ and make him Lord and Savior. I never said they could continue you in those things, you did! Change comes rapidly for these men and women, when we let the Holy Spirit do his work and guide them and led them into the truth through mercy.


They are assertions to you because you have been on a diet of milk so long you cannot even to begin digesting the real meat of the word. You are stuck in an elementary childish mind set Paul tell us about in Hebrews 6.1-3

Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, [SUP]2 [/SUP]of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.

I know I am teaching truth, when a guy like you tells me what I am teaching gives people a license to stay in SIN or to SIN.

The true grace message never teaches you can get "saved" and live like hell. It teaches quite the opposite and Titus 2.11-15 proves this out.

Guys like you strand people at the cross, the cross is the starting point not the end point and you are to buried in elementary doctrines to go into maturity to see it.

The real victory is at the tomb.

That is enough for now, because your head is exploding and like all babies you are screaming for milk....go find an entertainer that will scratch your ears.

 

[Meggido]

To how many did Jesus preach the sermon on the mount?
And when Jesus preached to and fed 5000, and later the 4000?
And when Jesus preached to the woman caught in adultery --- go and sin no more?

Really shallow understanding you have. Try reading the Bible. Then come back and teach. If you have it right.

I have used more verses and scripture to discuss with you than all your long reams of posts put together.


Where does it say the 4,000 and 5,000 were sinners Chris? We are told who they were and your arm chair analysis is lacking here as well.

I bet you also preach and teach that the woman was the ONLY sinner in John 8.


Maybe you ought to take your own advice and read the Bible instead of aggrandizing yourself with long posts and the Chris commentary that goes along with it and keep telling everyone they are losing Jesus all the time.

Guys like you also show your true character when challenged with anything rather than the status quo religion they have always had.

 

[Grace777x70]

Living from the flesh will bring death to us in some form or other and we will not experience our inheritance that is ours in Christ - the kingdom of God is within us.

If someone lives from the unbelief that Christ is our peace and worries about things - they will not experience the inheritance of the kingdom of God within them in their new creation in Christ. Do, they go to hell now because they didn't experience this peace?

Gluttony is a sin called "lasciviousness - which means "without restraint" - sometimes used to describe sexual lusts such as homosexual activity. So, if a person eats themselves to death but goes to church all the time, prays every day, gives their 10% to the church...etc. But they die because of their gluttony - do they go to hell now because of not experiencing the life of the kingdom that is with them?

This applies to all the works of the flesh - like envy, strife, causing divisions and outbursts of anger which is mentioned in Gal. 5:19-21. If a Christian has outbursts of anger and they die - do they go to hell now too - because they have been doing a work of the flesh as well.

Works-righteousness believers in their religions should say "yes" they all go to hell now if anyone does a work of the flesh. This is complete religious nonsense. It is the belief system of those that say "we lose salvation". It is a false gospel of self-made works in order to keep one saved.

We could say the same thing about all the works of the flesh which bring death of some sort to all of us and we will not experience our inheritance that is ours while on this earth.

Only the preaching and teaching of Christ in the true gospel of the grace of God will supply the nutrients to the Christian so that they can experience the inheritance that is their's because they are in the kingdom of God. and walk by the spirit so that they don't fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires.

Sometimes Paul used lists of people's identities to show unrighteousness as an identity verse those that are the righteous ones because of Christ's work on the cross and resurrection as in 1 Cor. 6:9-11.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

[SUP]10 [/SUP] nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

 

[Grace777x70]

Here is a great video showing how a Christian can get messed up by legalistic teachings of self-effort and trying to keep their salvation - then fall into sinning in the homosexual lifestyle. Works-based salvationists teachings actually "incite sinning".

Then the Lord revealed the true gospel to him and he walked away free.


[video=youtube;lsI4hhm_J2A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsI4hhm_J2A[/video]