2 Peter 2 (Let's get into it)

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willybob

Guest
again: the Penal Substitution, easy believism, Martin Luther gospel, reminds me of the story of the little red hen..
 
Nov 22, 2015
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The children of disobedience are those that refuse to belief in the gospel and receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness that comes with the Lord Jesus Christ.

Being "obedient to the faith" is believing in Christ and His work for us for life and living.

Notice here that even the law-keeping good moral living priests need to be "obedient to the faith". The keeping of the law of Moses is NOT the same as being "obedient to the faith".

Acts 6:7 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] The word of God kept on spreading; and the number of the disciples continued to increase greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were becoming obedient to the faith.


Pagans/Gentiles also need to be
"obedient to the faith" and believe in Christ and what He has done for life and living.

Romans 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about
the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake,


All people of all types are called to be "
obedient to the faith" - which is belief in Christ alone for life and living.

Romans 16:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations,
leading to obedience of faith;
 
Apr 23, 2017
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this guy has great posts man!!!!!!!!!!!! very indepth
 
Apr 23, 2017
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again: the Penal Substitution, easy believism, Martin Luther gospel, reminds me of the story of the little red hen..
you dont believe in the substition????????? what else do you have then?????????? why did Jesus die???????????
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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its man working together with God to bring about a relationship of love that cannot by any other means be achieved...
Scripture please.? It is rather God who works to bring us into relationship with Himself (Roman 5.10).

This is very explicit all throughout the text...many quote Phillip. 2-13 but ignore verse 12.....

Philippians 2-12,13

It’s the influencing power of grace combined with man’s faith, for we are workers together with God.

The principles of man working together with God are plastered all over the text from Genesis to Revelation.

Here is an excellent example given by Paul in the letter to the Philippians.

2-12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, workout you own salvation with fear and trembling
(fear of God; in that it’s a fearful thing to fall in the judgement hands of the living God, for the wrath of God remains on the children of disobedience)

13 “for it is Him that worketh (energeo) in you both to will and to do His good pleasure”
It says we are to work out what God works in. That isn't 'working together'. That is God working and us responding.

These two verses are in harmony with the working dynamics of grace and faith found in Eph. 2-8..Man strives to enter working out his part by a faithfulness to God that works by love and does no ill to His neighbor. And God energizes that faith with the working dynamic of grace
.

I think your bible has bits missing :) It should say, ' by (God's) grace you are saved, through faith, and that (salvation) not of yourselves,. It is the GIFT OF GOD, and not of works lest any man should boast.' The emphasis is all on God's gracious working. Faith is simply the medium through which we receive it.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
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again: the Penal Substitution, easy believism, Martin Luther gospel, reminds me of the story of the little red hen..
Excepting easy believism you would do to read the story of the little red hen more often. For penal substitution and Martin Luther's (and Paul's) Gospel are central to the Christian faith,
 
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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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What's the story of the little red hen?
 
Nov 22, 2015
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What would you say to a Christian in a Pentecostal church such as Gateway Church in Dallas, Tx. - that lived in outbursts of anger all the time and couldn't seem to control themselves.

They felt that this isn't really that bad as some of the other sins - even though they are in the exact same lists as works of the flesh.

Would you say that they are not saved or that Christ is not in them despite the fact that they said "I believe in Jesus Christ".

Would you tell them that they are going to spend eternity in hell because they were living after the flesh?
Chris1975....did you see this?

PS....I believe mailmandan started a 2 week vacation....which means no mail for anyone...lol
 
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preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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2 Peter 2New King James Version (NKJV)1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

  • These false teachers are amongst the body of Christ
  • The Lord bought them – they are included in the redemption offer

So you see this text as saying the Lord Jesus bought them by His sacrifice on the cross?
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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Isn't that what the bible says?
My bad, I should have been more clear. I know what the passage says, so do you. We're getting after what it means. So, you see this text as meaning the Lord Jesus bought them by His sacrifice on the cross?
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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My bad, I should have been more clear. I know what the passage says, so do you. We're getting after what it means. So, you see this text as meaning the Lord Jesus bought them by His sacrifice on the cross?
Is there any other possibility?
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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Mailmandan, where are you off to on your holidays?
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
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If they have once known the real way of Christ and have relapsed into this, their case is even worse. They are like the man in the parable whose last state was worse than his first (Matthew 12:45; Luke 11:26). If a man has never known the right way, he cannot be condemned for not following it.

But, if he has known it and then deliberately taken the other way, he sins against the light; and it were better for him that he had never known the truth, for his knowledge of the truth has become his condemnation. A man should never forget the responsibility which knowledge brings.

Peter ends with contempt. These evil men are like dogs who return to their vomit (Proverbs 26:11) or like a sow which has been scrubbed and then goes back to rolling in the mud. They have seen Christ but are so morally degraded by their own choice that they prefer to wallow in the depths of sin rather than to climb the heights of virtue. It is a dreadful warning that a man can make himself such that in the end the tentacles of sin are inextricably around him and virtue for him has lost its beauty.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
2,492
517
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If they have once known the real way of Christ and have relapsed into this, their case is even worse. They are like the man in the parable whose last state was worse than his first (Matthew 12:45; Luke 11:26). If a man has never known the right way, he cannot be condemned for not following it.

But, if he has known it and then deliberately taken the other way, he sins against the light; and it were better for him that he had never known the truth, for his knowledge of the truth has become his condemnation. A man should never forget the responsibility which knowledge brings.

Peter ends with contempt. These evil men are like dogs who return to their vomit (Proverbs 26:11) or like a sow which has been scrubbed and then goes back to rolling in the mud. They have seen Christ but are so morally degraded by their own choice that they prefer to wallow in the depths of sin rather than to climb the heights of virtue. It is a dreadful warning that a man can make himself such that in the end the tentacles of sin are inextricably around him and virtue for him has lost its beauty.
^^^ I like your posts.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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What would you say to a Christian in a Pentecostal church such as Gateway Church in Dallas, Tx. - that lived in outbursts of anger all the time and couldn't seem to control themselves.

They felt that this isn't really that bad as some of the other sins - even though they are in the exact same lists as works of the flesh.

Would you say that they are not saved or that Christ is not in them despite the fact that they said "I believe in Jesus Christ".

Would you tell them that they are going to spend eternity in hell because they were living after the flesh?
Chris1975....you still have not answered this question. I'm interested in what your religion would say about this. Thanks.