2 Peter 2 (Let's get into it)

J7 · Jun 3, 2017

The confusion seems to be between salvation and justification.

Salvation is deliverance, and it is my understanding that Jesus is our deliverer; he saves us from death and delivers us to eternal life through bodily regeneration, and he does this 100% and nothing we do or can do will help.

Justification means showing yourself to be righteous. Paul made it clear that we do not exhibit that we are righteous by following the law, so he showed that type of behaviour to be obsolete. But that does not invalidate the right kind of behaviour!!

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[TD]Jas 1:27[/TD]
[TD]Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.[/TD]
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valiant · Jun 3, 2017

J7 said:

Justification in Paul means being accounted as righteous by God in the face of the condemnation of the law. It was only in James that men showed themselves as righteous by their good deeds.

As he made clear. But he declared we were justified (accounted as righteous by God) through faith

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willybob · Jun 3, 2017

2 Peter 2 is almost identical to the epistle of Jude. The book addresses false prophets who turn the multitudes away from righteousness while establishing an easy grace gospel that allows them to remain in sin and still be saved..It beguiles unstable souls and deceitfully turns them away from the way of righteousness. Jude said these are wondering clouds (witnesses) with out water (no Holy Spirit), twice dead (reprobate) These are the plethora of locusts out of the bottomless pit of man's imagination that darken the whole sky in such that the light of the gospel cannot shine through in Rev.9 ..Jude wrote his epistle for the common salvation of man, warning them of false prophets who by stealth would creep in unawares. Or as Jesus said; "while men slept". They come with flattering words that are pleasing to the flesh, while mocking the way of righteousness and walking after their own ungodly lusts, making merchandise of men's souls (the gospel for dollars).. People heap upon themselves these false prophets because of their lust said Paul. .........any doctrine that does not conform one to godliness is a doctrine of devils...

Chris1975 · Jun 3, 2017

willybob said:

2 Peter 2 is almost identical to the epistle of Jude. The book addresses false prophets who turn the multitudes away from righteousness while establishing an easy grace gospel that allows them to remain in sin and still be saved..It beguiles unstable souls and deceitfully turns them away from the way of righteousness. Jude said these are wondering clouds (witnesses) with out water (no Holy Spirit), twice dead (reprobate) These are the plethora of locusts out of the bottomless pit of man's imagination that darken the whole sky in such that the light of the gospel cannot shine through in Rev.9 ..Jude wrote his epistle for the common salvation of man, warning them of false prophets who by stealth would creep in unawares. Or as Jesus said; "while men slept". They come with flattering words that are pleasing to the flesh, while mocking the way of righteousness and walking after their own ungodly lusts, making merchandise of men's souls (the gospel for dollars).. People heap upon themselves these false prophets because of their lust said Paul. .........any doctrine that does not conform one to godliness is a doctrine of devils...

^^^^ very good.

Chris1975 · Jun 3, 2017

Chris1975 said:

Mailmandan, do you have any revert to the above questions? In response to your post #129.

Thanks

valiant · Jun 3, 2017

The same way as to other sinners. I would point out that Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners, and that if they come to Him He can cleanse them from all sin.

I would point them to Rom 1.25-26.

valiant · Jun 3, 2017

willybob said:

I fail to see their easy grace Gospel. Enlighten me.

Grace777x70 · Jun 3, 2017

What would you say to a Christian in a Pentecostal church such as Gateway Church in Dallas, Tx. - that lived in outbursts of anger all the time and couldn't seem to control themselves.

They felt that this isn't really that bad as some of the other sins - even though they are in the exact same lists as works of the flesh.

Would you say that they are not saved or that Christ is not in them despite the fact that they said "I believe in Jesus Christ".

Would you tell them that they are going to spend eternity in hell because they were living after the flesh?

J7 · Jun 3, 2017

valiant said:

Paul said we are justified by the Faith of Jesus Christ

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[TD]Gal 2:16[/TD]
[TD]Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.[/TD]
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He explains in Hebrews 11 that Faith is the materialization of an idea or an invisible thing

We need to understand what Paul is saying, it is quite radical really.

BillG · Jun 3, 2017

willybob said:

I hope you don't mind but I am going to copy a couple of notes from NKJV/NLT study text.
But I hope to take it a bit further and I hope explain it well.

2:2 destructive ways: Peter is addressing here the ethical implications of false teaching. The Greek word translated destructive means “shameful” or “deliberately immoral.” The false teachers gloried in the privileges of Christianity but treated its moral demands with indifference. blasphemed: The truth of Christian redemption is held in contempt by many because of the immoral behavior of professing Christians.

One of the saddest effects of false teaching is that the way of truth will be slandered by a watching world. By their immoral and greedy conduct, false teachers bring shame on Christ.

in Jude we find

Jude 1:4
For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

For me my concern is that we can write people off who have placed their faith in Jesus because they are still carnal as such. Which Paul addressed in Romans 5-6.

Jesus said

Matthew 24:24
For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

Putting aside false prophets.

What worries me is that we can be quick to write of the unstable belivers because they don't seek to walking in godliness.
I think we need to be sure it's not speck of sawdust and plank in the eye.

We need to come alongside those that seem to be unstable in thier walk, get behind the scenes as such.
Many Christians who are unstable don't actually understand Jesus, his love for them. Hurt people from life experiences.

To me I think it's wrong to say "Bible says now go do"

If one could stop sinning one would stop sinning. We need to get behind the reason why a beliver does not do.

Jesus did not condemn the adulterous woman. He said "Does anyone condemn you? Neither do I now go and sin no more.

I don't think he was talking about sinless perfection, to me if he was then he had no need to die.

She met Jesus in the flesh.

I just want us all to be voice of God in this sin sick world that affects beleivers and non beleivers to be like Jesus.

Walk with each other as believers, love each other, walk with unbelievers and point them to Jesus.

J7 · Jun 3, 2017

For example, you have 2 professing Christians. They could be politicians, public figures, like Margaret Court for example.

When they are asked about Gay Marriage one ums and erms and squirms, and eventually says it's fine, the other demonstrates Faith, and says , "no, it's an abomination".

She hears God, and regardless of the cost to her professional life, family, liberty etc etc, speaks what God tells her to speak. That is Faith. Acting and Being the person God wants us to be, and demonstrating him to the world.

Matthew 5:
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

garee · Jun 3, 2017

.

When studying and coming across the word faith we should always ask ourselves… “whose faith” is in view. Us towards Him or him towards us?One dead one living.

Well of course we are saved by Christ work of faith or labor of love.. It is not of our own self but rather the faith of Christ, of God as the work He works in us, therefore giving us the hearing of faith, not of our ownselves, never after the imagination of one heart.

The faith of Christ of God works to both will and do his good pleasure (imputed righteousness just as it is written in Ephesians 2, not of our own self…. after the imagination of ones own heart the kind faith of natural man. Faith without works is dead. We should not separate what God calls together.

He exercised the faith that comes from hearing God

The Spirit of Christ worked to purify the hearts of the Old Testament saint just as in the new. Christ puts no difference between the two. They were required to walk by faith. Ablel walked by the faith of Christ that came from hearing God. The law in respect in respect to if any man has not the Spirit of Christ then neither do they belong to Him

So yes the personal faith of Christ that He personally gives it to us a free gift. By that faith our faithful Creator created the universe

If we have the faith of God after Abraham we have blasphemed the name by which we are called heavenward.

Yes the action is the work of God who works in us to both will and do His good pleasure.

It was Christ’s faith that perfected Christ’s works, not of Abraham. He is both the author and perfecter

Abraham’s faith grew according to Christ's faith that worked in Abraham. Christ causes the growth .

He was moved by the faith of God to present that parable..not of his own will. He is the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world and not in respect to the demonstration of that spiritual work.(not seen) The Lamb slain in the first six days he did work. It is that rest we rest in.

Throw out the Bible.Would that be so you have the faith of Christ in respect to your own self? The bible as the same spirit of faith (Christ’s) as it is written is the faith we by.

J7 · Jun 3, 2017

[video]https://youtu.be/UrIiLvg58SY[/video]
Never been able to upload a video on this garbage system

willybob · Jun 3, 2017

valiant said:

the flesh will always fail to see it but rather embrace it..

valiant · Jun 3, 2017

J7 said:

Roman 3.21-5.21 make quite clear that this means 'faith in Jesus Christ'. 'The righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all who believe' (Rom 3.22).
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But that is not faith IN Jesus Christ.

I understand quite well what he means in Romans. It is quite simple really.

valiant · Jun 3, 2017

willybob said:

In other words it isn't really there. Its your invention with which to attack others

willybob · Jun 3, 2017

BillG said:

when the bible uses the word sinners (the wicked) it speaks of the vile sins of the flesh that Paul said would disqualify one from the kingdom,,Such people as Daniel, Hannah, Job, Zecharias & Elisabeth, were not engaged in these types sins, thus they were reckoned righteous before God being blameless/perfect fearing God and keeping His commandments...However, being of human frailty, being made subject to vanity for the Creators purpose,we are by no means free from all ignorance and while having all knowledge, these are mistakes in judgement, moments of doubt, moments of anger, sins of ignorance, of the which the day of atonement in the Old Testament was for. Today they are dismissed in the Lords prayer. These are the sins that we are chastised/teaching for. God doesn't chastise us for willful rebellion and the vile sins of the flesh, but rather they reap what they sow and are called to the baptism of repentance, for He desires that all men should come to repentance and that none should perish...there are many righteous men and women who were not sinners and lived a life without he willful rebellious sin against ones own conscience (blasphemy of the Holy Ghost). This truth has been lost for centuries and seems very foreign to most...

Roughsoul1991 · Jun 3, 2017

garee said:

.

When studying and coming across the word faith we should always ask ourselves… “whose faith” is in view. Us towards Him or him towards us?One dead one living.

Well of course we are saved by Christ work of faith or labor of love.. It is not of our own self but rather the faith of Christ, of God as the work He works in us, therefore giving us the hearing of faith, not of our ownselves, never after the imagination of one heart.

The faith of Christ of God works to both will and do his good pleasure (imputed righteousness just as it is written in Ephesians 2, not of our own self…. after the imagination of ones own heart the kind faith of natural man. Faith without works is dead. We should not separate what God calls together.

He exercised the faith that comes from hearing God

The Spirit of Christ worked to purify the hearts of the Old Testament saint just as in the new. Christ puts no difference between the two. They were required to walk by faith. Ablel walked by the faith of Christ that came from hearing God. The law in respect in respect to if any man has not the Spirit of Christ then neither do they belong to Him

So yes the personal faith of Christ that He personally gives it to us a free gift. By that faith our faithful Creator created the universe

If we have the faith of God after Abraham we have blasphemed the name by which we are called heavenward.

Yes the action is the work of God who works in us to both will and do His good pleasure.

It was Christ’s faith that perfected Christ’s works, not of Abraham. He is both the author and perfecter

Abraham’s faith grew according to Christ's faith that worked in Abraham. Christ causes the growth .

He was moved by the faith of God to present that parable..not of his own will. He is the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world and not in respect to the demonstration of that spiritual work.(not seen) The Lamb slain in the first six days he did work. It is that rest we rest in.

Throw out the Bible.Would that be so you have the faith of Christ in respect to your own self? The bible as the same spirit of faith (Christ’s) as it is written is the faith we by.

This post is probably the most misinterpreted post i have ever read.

Grace777x70 · Jun 3, 2017

Actually we do live by the faith "of the Son of God". Paul uses the genitive case in Gal. 2:20

Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

The genitive case is the case that shows possession and is expressed in English by the possessive "of" or an apostrophe ('s).

It was Jesus' faith in the Father to raise Him from the dead which brings about our faith when we hear the message of Him.

It is in the gospel message. It is from faith to faith.

Romans 1:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

[SUP]17 [/SUP] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

willybob · Jun 3, 2017

its man working together with God to bring about a relationship of love that cannot by any other means be achieved...This is very explicit all throughout the text...many quote Phillip. 2-13 but ignore verse 12.....

Philippians 2-12,13

It’s the influencing power of grace combined with man’s faith, for we are workers together with God.

The principles of man working together with God are plastered all over the text from Genesis to Revelation.

Here is an excellent example given by Paul in the letter to the Philippians.

2-12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, workout you own salvation with fear and trembling (fear of God; in that it’s a fearful thing to fall in the judgement hands of the living God, for the wrath of God remains on the children of disobedience)

13 “for it is Him that worketh (energeo) in you both to will and to do His good pleasure”

These two verses are in harmony with the working dynamics of grace and faith found in Eph. 2-8..Man strives to enter working out his part by a faithfulness to God that works by love and does no ill to His neighbor. And God energizes that faith with the working dynamic of grace. The conduit is faith and the energizing power (“energeo” in the Greek) that is delivered through the conduit is the power of God’s grace, the Spirit of grace. (empowerment of the Spirit to live godly) Titus 2-12,13,14. It’s always saved by His grace coupled with our faith. And remember no one can save themselves for only God can forgive past sins through the blood atonement of Christ. Likewise God can’t just save anyone without their consent. Man must repent and come clean with Him first in that they might be saved by His mercy. It’s called conditional covenant of redemption theology, not Penal Substitution theology, the two are as different as night and day. Again man is a worker together with God to bring about a fellowship of love that cannot be achieved by any other means…. It’s the very essence of COVENANT, for man MUST enter into a covenant relationship with God in order to be saved..Who are those that are being saved? Those that obey God and hold fast to His conditional requirements of salvation...The false pundits would have you believe it’s an unconditional covenant. Yes, their version is the reformatted Penal Substitution. What they really mean is that Jesus did it all for you and you do nothing concerning ones salvation. This is why they fail to understand what Jesus meant when He said “it is finished”..Jesus meant the way of salvation through the New Covenant had now been established, and not that He did everything/obeyed for you.

the rebellious always fight against the parts of scripture that offends the flesh..

Paul directly said we are workers together with God in 3 places in the text, and is also implied dozens of times in his epistles.

2 Peter 2 (Let's get into it)

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