50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
The great tribulation IS the great persecution ... God's wrath is upon the persecutors.


All this is the wrath of God not tribulation, you have to distinguish the two.
It is jacobs trouble.
Time of the gentiles fulfilled.

Only the 144k JEWS ARE SEALED.

And those sealed jews are already born again messianic believers.

So don't say christians are already sealed.
If that were true then the 144k believers were sealed for no reason.

That alone debunks a mid trib (that prewrath deal) model.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Ah! So you are a prewrather! Yes, we most certainly disagree. Prewrath theory causes a complete rearranging of Revelation to fit, so is automatically proven wrong. ANY theory that must rearrange Revelation to fit will be proven wrong.

Where you have missed it: you don't know where "great tribulation" (the days Jesus talked about) are found in Revelation. You don't know where the 70th week starts. You have to move the 6th seal to chapter 19. The list goes on and on. "prewrath" theory is the worst of the worst, Started by Van Kampen and Rosenthal because they did not distinguish between the cosmic signs that come before the week and the signs "after the tribulation of those days." These are two different signs that come over 7 years apart, and are signs for different things.

That great multitude is BEFORE any part of the 70th week. They could NOT have come from the days of GT Jesus spoke of. If you know anything about Revelation, the days of GT Jesus spoke of will be caused by the wrath of Satan working through the Beast and False prophet - and they don't even rise to power until chapter 13. They don't get the mark and image created until late in chapter 14.

You have often said we have to distinguish between wrath and tribulation. The truth is, we have to distinguish between "great tribulation" (GT) before the week, speaking of the daily tribulation over the long church age, and then the days of GT Jesus spoke of that would be worse than any other time in history.
Once the rapture is negated to a " christians must suffer" model then all of end times gets twisted.

Of course we suffer. Greatly suffer.

Those suffering hopefuls probably never read foxxes book of martyrs.
Martyrdom is the highest reward.

The bride is not worthy through beaten bloody.

Margret mcdonnald ( the postribs false poster girl) recieved. A vision or dream of the pretrib rapture.
She then proceeded to place it postrib.

She just FELT LIKE the bride needed to suffer....get this....to be made worthy.

That same spirit is what pushes against the pretrib rapture

It just seems in the human mind that there can not be an UNFAIR REMOVING OF half the church.

They contend "it aint fair".

Nothing of the gospels is fair.
Nothing
 

DJZawada

Active member
Jul 25, 2020
114
31
28
www.yomyhwh.com
Yes I do completely agree that Daniels 70 weeks prophecy pertains only to Israel and speaks not at all to the Church. The Church is only inferred in the gap.
But simply stated your math is wrong. Seriously the 70 A.D. math just does not work in Daniel chapter 9.
None of anyones math works as you do not know the time God calculated when the last week (49) years led up to the destruction of Beit HaMikdash. Everyone of you guess at this time frame, which is assumption, allegorization and ridiculous.

I have seen the most elaborate "math" equations and I believe God laughs at your schemes as you remain under Isaiah prophecy.

Here are the facts you cannot change and Jewish scribes cannot change with New Bible editions:

  1. Jesus is the Messiah as claimed to be around AD33
  2. The 2nd Temple was destroyed less than a generation after Jesus was betrayed to death by the Sanhedrin. The ADL does not like the use of this statement.
These two facts eliminate all your predictions, theories, speculation, and Star Wars fantasy projected to the body of Christ.

483 years from 444 BC land aprox AD 33. YOU do not know when God started the final week of years (49) before or during the time of Christ with the end result the destruction of the Temple in AD 70.

This is very simple and straight forward, that even children understand. However, it's made very confused to YOU the Christrian and to anyone who would believe on Jesus as Messiah - thats the goal and why ALL verses that pertain to Jesus is viciously fough with and confused by Jewish and apostate scholars busy rewriting the Biblical narrative.

The new narrative will continue to erode Jesus as "real person" which is the new narrative coming out of the apostates from Israel. This has been an ongoing guilt trip for 2,000 years and will continue to be so as we draw near to the end of the age.

I understand it's a chess game of who wins the hearts and minds of the people, and academia believes you are losing to their propaganda and biblically they are correct. The falling away must occur and the arguing/confusion of scripture is part of that falling away.

God Bless and may the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ redeem you all.
 

DJZawada

Active member
Jul 25, 2020
114
31
28
www.yomyhwh.com
Part 1 on Debunking the 70 Weeks​

I would like to show you all how you have been duped about the 70 weeks for your entire lives.

It's very simple as our Lord made this for laymen to understand.

What I will show you here is the blocks of text out of place. One verse of text will move up and one verse will move down for Gabriels 70 weeks. The text in italics below (look at the number headings) change places from their previous position and, voila, all is well again:

KJV –

24. Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: (69 weeks) the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

KJV 27. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The translation above for verse 27 is a manipulation of the scripture and the mistakes are in bold. The use of “desolate” to describe two different events in time is absurd. Please keep in mind this IS NOT original scripture. These words were chosen by translators for your confusion.

If you are unaware of this it simply means you are not a scribe!

For those of us who do understand this (we are not speculating) we actually translate Greek/Hebrew. If you just read english retail versions, then I'm sorry.

Greek LXX verse 27 –

καὶ δυναμώσει διαθήκην πολλοῖς, ἑβδομὰς (μία·) καὶ ἐν τῷ ἡμίσει τῆς ἑβδομάδος ἀρθήσεταί μου θυσία καὶ σπονδή, καὶ ἐπὶ τὸ ἱερὸν βδέλυγμα τῶν ἐρημώσεων, καὶ ἕως τῆς συντελείας καιροῦ συντέλεια δοθήσεται ἐπὶ τὴν ἐρήμωσιν.

The (μία·) is an addition and means “one” except for the “dot” on the end.

Now to break the verse down word by word – you are about to be astonished and dismayed:

καὶ δυναμώσει διαθήκην πολλοῖς – and to strengthen the will of many

ἑβδομὰς μία – seven (seven years) or μία “one” week (1 day equals one year).



μία· = “one” (one and · addition removed)


καὶ ἐν τῷ ἡμίσει τῆς ἑβδομάδος – and in the middle of the week


ἀρθήσεταί μου θυσία καὶ σπονδή – take away my burnt offering and drink offering

KJV – “cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.” Here we see the compromised use of “sacrifice” and “oblation,” rather than burnt offering, or drink offering. Sacrifice is too vague of a word here and both Christian and Jewish authors stray from the original.


Oblation:


  • n.The act of offering something, such as worship or thanks, to a deity.
  • n.The act of offering the bread and wine of the Eucharist.

Oblation is an improper English translation and a compromised word. We can see both Hebrew and Latin words translated to the English oblation and describes wine of the Eucharist, which is NOT korbanot during Daniel’s time, or the newer Hebrew word nesekh, a drink offering upon the altar.

The Eucharist is consumed by the body, not poured out as an offering as found in Leviticus,


“Its grain offering shall be two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, an offering made by fire to the Lord, for a sweet aroma; and its drink offering shall be of wine, one-fourth of a hin.” Leviticus 23:13

The Eucharist would not exist for another 550+ years after Daniel, based on Jesus saying,

26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Matthew 26

The proper format from Greek is a drink offering or the description of a wine offering.

The Greek is σπονδή a drink offering, which is also described as a “libation,” a more accurate term, or in Hebrew nesekh (undiluted wine).

Libation:
  • The pouring of a liquid offering as a religious ritual.
  • n.The liquid so poured.

The Hebrew translation from the Masoretic text as according to Talmud Sanhedrin, rabbi must be clear in the format or explanation of sefer korbanot: olah, zevach sh’lamim, nesekh, chatat, asham, minchah; mistakes can cause many to error, even if an expert explains the process.

Much of what you are reading is manipulated in some way shape or form whether to point to Judaic values or to point towards Catholic values, OR the logic behind a certain extant vehicle like payrus 75, Alexandrian text, Westcott/Hort, and the hotly debated reasons for selection of manuscripts that go before paid off committee's to form new editions that are "woke" editions when it comes to defining your relationship with God and His son, our Messiah Jesus.
 

DJZawada

Active member
Jul 25, 2020
114
31
28
www.yomyhwh.com
Part 2 Debunking the 70 Weeks

According to the Hebrew words you are not going to get one defined word that explains what is said by a single English selection of a word. We can write an entire chapter on olah (burnt offering) and chatat.

It is very important for you to understand this.

Greek words can have four definitions as you will see. A scribe will select an English word, or choose a word they believe is correct. It is up to you – the reader- to believe that their choice is the right choice.

I am here to tell you that many of the “choices” are not only incorrect, but absolute manipulation of the scripture to trick you into believing something else.

For example:

Sacrifice can mean a victim on the ground, over a stake, or in water, without the altar, and this is a clear violation of Torah.

The word “sacrifice” does not equate to korbanot, nor does burnt offering. Burnt offering, however, is a more accurate description than sacrifice as this does equate to a fire in use generally with an altar.


καὶ ἐπὶ τὸ ἱερὸν βδέλυγμα τῶν ἐρημώσεων – and upon being filled with abomination becomes desolate.


καὶ ἕως τῆς συντελείας καιροῦ – and until the end of time


συντέλεια δοθήσεται ἐπὶ τὴν ἐρήμωσιν. – those united together will come to an end upon the depopulation/devastation.


The KJV scribes interpret the above as “the consummation and that determined shall be poured upon…”

The analogy for the word συντέλεια is the following. You decide:

  • united contribution for the public burdens
  • union of communities grouped together or united to a larger state
  • body of citizens who contributed jointly

Consummation could be selected but the words are ἐπιτεθεικὼς τοῖς ἔργοις, notably different and render,

  • the consummation of a scheme

You can see from above definitions the scribe for the 1611 Bible chose incorrectly based on their knowledge of Greek/Latin/Hebrew when translating into English. The Coverdale Bible was the first modern English Bible printed in 1535, seventy six years before the KJV, and the verse reads differently as follows,

“He shall make a strong bond with many for the space of a week: and when the week is half gone, he shall put down the slain and meat offering. And in the temple there shall be an abominable desolation till it have destroyed all. And it is concluded, this wasting shall continue unto the end.”


We can also determine the English versions that come after Coverdale, try to stick close to this rendering, and from the descriptions the scribes do not understand karbonot or the sacrificial system of Leviticus, or just simply did not carefully choose the proper words to define such with Ol’ English available at that time.

Interesting to note here that agenda 2030 is based on depopulation, which is the Greek word ἐρήμωσις the last word in Daniel 9:27. Amazing that a word chosen “depopulation” from thousands of years ago defines what will happen to all those united in that cause.

I wonder if any of you have found this yet? copyright Zawada :love:

συντέλεια δοθήσεται ἐπὶ τὴν ἐρήμωσιν. – those united together will come to an end upon the depopulation/devastation.

ἐρήμωσις / ἐρημώσεων – definition is: depopulation, destruction, devastation, or desolation.


As we near the end of the age our understanding of scripture will increase as the Holy Spirit is poured out and etymology will display verse in ways previous generations were unable to see.

part 3 in process...
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
as you do not know the time God calculated when the last week (49) years
YOU do not know when God started the final week of years (49) before or
Is this a typo?

The "final WEEK of years" is not "49"... but "7"



[v.27a "for ONE WEEK" aka "7 years"... not "49"]
 

DJZawada

Active member
Jul 25, 2020
114
31
28
www.yomyhwh.com
Is this a typo?

The "final WEEK of years" is not "49"... but "7"
[v.27a "for ONE WEEK" aka "7 years"... not "49"]
This pertains to Jesus generation as detailed from His resurrection to the time of the destruction of the Temple, either way, however your math goes, Beit HaMikdash fulfilled Jesus prophecy on being destroyed less than a generation from Him ascending to the Father. Not one stone was left upon another as all the gold melted and all the bricks were stolen except the wailing wall, western wall that remains this day.

This, the anointing (HaMashiach) of Jesus fulfilled Jeremiah, and Gabriels prophecy to Daniel.

I will post part 3 shortly,
 

DJZawada

Active member
Jul 25, 2020
114
31
28
www.yomyhwh.com
Part 3 Debunking the 70 Weeks
Daniel 9:27

And to strengthen the will of many seven years, and in the middle of the week, take away my burnt offering and drink offering and upon being filled with abomination becomes desolate, and until the end of time those united together will come to an end upon the depopulation/devastation.


Reads a bit different and much easier than your KJV doesn’t it? Notice there is no “he” or “his” as these were added words to describe previous verse of the “prince to come,” as well as the word “temple.”

God’s word does not sound like gibberish, nor is it confusing. It is very easy for Christians to be confused, not only on scripture translation, but by the many theories of that confused improperly translated scripture.

Jesus warned us and said,

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before. Matthew 24

In order for you to believe these charlatans, false scribes will use scripture to point to their antichrist. They will use Bible translations to convince you of their “truth” and we have witnessed over the last four hundred years a clear departure in Biblical translation to the English speaking world.


Here is a link for a complete breakdown in English of the Greek verse 27, which predates ALL Jewish translated scripture for anyone interested in knowing the truth over all the lies you are told.

The Greek word for seven is ἑβδομὰς

The majority of translators found on the internet will not translate this “seven” word from Greek to English. Google will not translate this word. Strong’s concordance online says they don’t know what the word means. ???

So I went to a 1999 hard cover edition published by Broadman & Holman, and lo and behold, the word is not there!

A Greek word that has existed for over two thousand years has been removed from Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance. There is a similar word for “seventh” spelled slightly different.

Why does Strong’s lie and say they don’t know what this word means?

Moreover, MOST of the translators online WILL NOT translate this word, which means either Google or other publishers/organization want to stop the knowledge of this information and own those translators. Again, google will not translate ancient Greek.

Ask yourself why is that?

Of course it’s impossible to manipulate all information, especially forensic etymology.

Also, a trick online Bible publishers use is certain dots, hyphens, or symbols embedded in the text to break the translators – a dead giveaway they don’t want you to know the truth of the verse you’re reading!

So for all of you relying on English versions you are reading the whimsical thoughts of what they want you to read!

Organizations have gone to great lengths at trampling under foot historical words by eradicating them from dictionaries, lexicons, and Strong’s concordance editions, and attempt to control online information where you can access unadulterated manuscripts, translators, and source to render any true form of scripture.

Publishing houses have been taken over and update just about every Bible out there to read the way they want you to see the scripture, not as in it’s original form. I being a Zawada Jew can plainly say this and any attempt to say this is antisemitic would be ridiculous since I am a Jew exposing what BOTH Jewish and Christian scribes have done.

The 1851 translation of the Greek, or the SIR LANCELOT C.L. BRENTON edition published by Samuel Bagster & Sons, Ltd., London, translates the verse as follows:

“And one week (seven) shall establish (strengthen) the covenant with many: and in the midst (middle) of the week my sacrifice (burnt offering) and drink-offering shall be taken away: and on the temple (there is no word for temple) [shall be] the abomination of desolations; and at the end of time an end shall be put to the desolation (two different forms of desolation).”

Both Christian and Jewish scribes have erred in their English translation of Daniel chapter 9 and why the verse read as gibberish and confuses many. When translated in a proper format as above the verse makes sense from what God is doing – not man.

part 4 last post
 

DJZawada

Active member
Jul 25, 2020
114
31
28
www.yomyhwh.com
Conclusion: Part 4 Debunking the 70 Weeks
Remember we have switched places of verse 26 and 27. Verse 27 reads first and 26 reads after.

King James Version 1611 –

26. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.”

Greek Septuagint to Brenton English 1851 –

And after the sixty-two weeks, the anointed one shall be destroyed, and there is no judgment in him: and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming: they shall be cut off with a flood, and to the end of the war which is rapidly completed he shall appoint to destruction.

Hebrew JPS version:

And after those sixty-two weeks, the anointed one will disappear and vanish. (judgment is completely removed) The army of a leader who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary, but its end will come through a flood. Desolation is decreed until the end of war.

The phrase disappear and vanish is comical and discussed below. Also the word judgment κρίμα is missing. This translation is extremely poor and not credible for any legitimate academic rendering.

Now lets examine the Greek as we did verse 27, the breakdown of the words:


Daniel 9:26

καὶ μετὰ τὰς ἑβδομάδας τὰς ἑξηκονταδύο – and after the week of sixty two

ἐξολοθρευθήσεται χρῖσμα – the anointed is exterminated/killed. This inflection can also mean “is ruined.”


The KJV version “cut off” is inaccurate as the Greek simply does not mean that.

The Jewish Masoretic version removes anything that looks as if someone were killed or murdered, thus “cut off,” so they cannot be accused of killing their own Messiah – you all fell for it.

The ridiculous JPS English translation of “disappear and vanish” alludes to Jesus ascension, or “missing from the grave” to cause further confusion amongst the Christian community. The Hebrew does not state these words. This is the trickery of these charlatans. They want you Christians to argue over the fantasies they project to you.

They want you to dwell on and debate fictitious translations from their own mind.

Nor is the JPS translation based in a legitimate format. The false scribes are simply deciding how they want you to read the verse in English.

These false scribes would rather you believe that Jesus is not the Messiah and that the Book of Daniel has nothing to do with the timeline pointing to Jesus.

But we know better as our Father Elohim gives us the knowledge through Ruach HaKodesh, which we receive by believing in the true Mashiach Jesus!

καὶ κρίμα οὐκ ἔστιν ἐν αὐτῷ – and there is no reason to judge Him

Above is one of the most important verses in the entire Bible and BOTH the KJV and JPS have removed the verse in their translation – PROOF of their manipulation.



ἔστιν is a sum of the whole. Strong defines the word “εἰμί” as “imperfect, accusative.” Again, another confusion term by Jewish scribes and why the verse reads like gibberish.

Both the KJV and the JPS (Jewish scribes) leave out the rendering “judgment,” for to include it means they falsely judged someone to death, or more precisely, falsely accused the Messiah to get Him killed. You have been completely duped by these false scribes and translators

The 1851 Brenton version reads “and there is no judgment in him.” It seems very difficult for these scribes to read what the Greek says before the masoretic got their hands on manuscripts and were allowed to apostate scripture.

“There is no reason to judge Him,” is the translation and don’t let anyone tell you any different. You are not supposed to know the truth about Jesus. You are supposed to be confused about this simple statement.


The Coverdale, made 76 years before the KJV, says plainly, “Christ shall be slain, and they shall have no pleasure in Him.” This too is an inaccurate version, but AT LEAST it is to the point and not confusing.


καὶ τὴν πόλιν καὶ τὸ ἅγιον διαφθερεῖ – and the city and Most Holy shall be corrupted and destroyed

The word ἅγιον here is translated as “saints” from New Testament writing. However, no one was called “saints” during the time of Daniel and this word means “Most Holy” and refers to Beit HaMikdash, or the Holy Temple. None of verse 26 has anything to do with Christians and is only for Jerusalem, the Holy Temple, and Israel. People have come up with all kinds of theories that this is the future Temple under Christianity – it is not.

God was telling Daniel the time of the Temples destruction that would occur after the killing of Messiah Jesus, which was completed by Titus of Rome in AD/CE 70.

διαφθερεῖ – this word translates as follows:
  • destroy utterly, be destroyed
  • ruin, break up
  • to be corrupted, corrupt by bribes
  • make away with
  • kill, to be murdered
I hope your eyes are opening. You have been deceived by those intent on keeping you from the knowledge of Jesus, by rendering scripture inaccurate so you can remain in confusion and false theory!!

Throw off your shackles!

σὺν τῷ ἡγουμένῳ τῷ ἐρχομένῳ – with/by the leader to come

σὺν, means “with” but the word preceding it is διαφθερεῖ, which means “to destroy” which the leader is destroying or the cause of ruin “with destruction.” If you translate to English as “destroy the city and the sanctuary with the prince that is coming,” this sounds confused in English. The proper English format is “destroyed by the leader to come,” this is verb action, not, “with a leader to come” unless you are speaking in Greek.

καὶ ἐκκοπήσονται ἐν κατακλυσμῷ – and are cut off in the flood

ἐκκοπήσ / ονται can be broken into several words and literally means “are made to be cut off” from ἐκκόπτω:
  • cut out, cut off, make an end of
  • weary, knock out, laid waste

ονται translates to “make things to be”

κατακλυσμῷ translates: flood, inundation, deluge from attack, κατακλυσμός, which means you are cut off from escape in war.


The “flood” describes the attack by four Roman legions against Jerusalem or being inundated by mass attack of 60,000+ soldiers.

καὶ ἕως τέλους πολέμου συντετμημένου τάξει ἀφανισμοῖς – and until the end of war, which will be brief, the army will destroy.

τάξει translates as:
  • in an orderly manner
  • arranging, arrangement; in military sense
  • drawing up in rank and file, order or disposition of an army

ἀφανισμοῖς means extermination or destruction from ἀφανισμός. In many Biblical passages we see this translated as “desolate” referring to a “place,” noun; not what an army is DOING (action) to that place. The depiction here is describing a place of orderly destruction by an army, or extermination.

Flavius Josephus,

“There was no pity for age, no regard for rank; little children and old men, laymen and priests alike were butchered. The cries from the hill were answered from the crowded streets; and now many who were wasted with hunger and beyond speech found strength to moan and wail when they saw the sanctuary in flames.” Flavius describing the Roman destruction in 70 AD/CE, The Wars of The Jews
 

DJZawada

Active member
Jul 25, 2020
114
31
28
www.yomyhwh.com
In summary lets put it all together:

Daniel 9:26

And after the week of sixty two, the anointed is killed and there is no reason to judge Him. And the city and Most Holy shall be corrupted and destroyed by the leader to come, and are cut off from escape by the flood. And until the end of the brief war the army will destroy.

Daniel 9:27

And to strengthen the will of many seven years, and in the middle of the week, take away my burnt offering and drink offering and upon being filled with abomination becomes desolate, and until the end of time those united together will come to an end upon the depopulation/devastation.

What you are seeing above is descriptions in time that have occurred.

The first to occur is Daniel 9:27 as the verses are out of order. This occurs by Antiochus IV Epiphanes in 167 BC when he committed the abomination of desolation in the Temple, slaughtering a pig and declaring himself a god, which is what his name Epiphanes means.

The second verse Daniel 9:26 occurred just as Jesus predicted, that Jerusalem would be completely destroyed.

Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.” Matthew 24:2

Do you see the difference? Verse 26 and 27 have traded places and now the scripture reads historically accurate to Antiochus IV Epiphanes who controlled Jerusalem for 7 years (one week) and committed the abomination of desolation.

As Jesus had said for you to understand there will be another abomination of desolation in the 3rd temple,

“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:” Matthew 24:15-16


Antiochus IV Epiphanes was a foreshadow of the antichrist to come, a carbon copy of abominations of desolation’s in history leading up to the final charade. This was made known to the Jews and to all nations that you may know the signs of it’s coming as Jesus foretold.

By moving a block of text up one line – the entire passage now historically pans out perfectly. You can see this same occurrence in translation throughout the books of the Bible.

For those of you staring dumbfounded at what you’re reading, or want to argue with it, I’m sorry.

It’s time to put off the shackle of deception and the modern lies that confuse and scatter the sheep.

More to the point, why would anyone speculate and generate ridiculous theories of the prophecy, i.e. moving into the future 2,000 years to finish out a remaining week of years?

It doesn’t make any sense simply because it’s wrong; it was always an imagined theory folks based out of improper translation of scripture and NOT KNOWING how the scriptures were manipulated.

Recognize reality, a block of text had been out of place by one inch.

Humans, as we are, instead of recognizing facts, invent theories to justify ideas in their head.

It really is that simple, without confusion or allegory of God’s word. With the one block rearrangement now history places perfectly:
  • The 2nd Temple is built under Zechariah and Ezra around 539 BC.
  • Gabriel gives Daniel 70 week timeline around 522 BC.
  • Artaxeres decrees to rebuild Jerusalem 444 BC starting the 490 year clock.
  • Antiochus Epiphanes IV commits the abomination of desolation 167 BC.
  • Jesus is declared the Messiah in AD 33, 69 weeks (483 years) after Jerusalem decree.
  • Titus destroys the 2nd Temple & Jerusalem in AD 70, as Gabriel & Jesus predicted.
  • Gabriel’s 70 weeks fulfilled.

The 70 weeks have ended and now we await the beginning of the 1,290 days which include another abomination of desolation (there have been many in history) and the return of HaMashiach, Jesus the Messiah, to end the age according to the prophecy of an angel as given to Daniel below, which by the way, ends the Book of Daniel.

Daniel 12:1-2,

“And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”

This angel is telling Daniel of the end of the age, NOT, the previous 70 week prophecy as given by Gabriel.

These are 2 different angels and 2 different prophecy.

Also, the previous chapter 11 of Daniel predicts in entirety a cross reference between the antichrist or dark Moshiac, and Antiochus Epiphanes who commits the abomination of desolation.

As they both, Antiochus and Onpiov antichrist as found in Revelation, are the same embued entity (both possessed by Satan). This also is something difficult for the secular world to understand – that of possession.

Again, it really is that simple folks and renders scripture chronologically correct with ZERO, NADA, fantasy imagination, or Star Wars theory predictions. Just reading what has happened in history, proven by archaeology, and documented accounts of people who were there.

It’s not difficult to believe when copying the manuscripts a scribe had a verse out of place by one inch.

Scribal errors are common knowledge. And we’re not talking about a misinterpretation of text here, only the text being out of place by a one inch margin, which resulted in ridiculous theories and philosophies over the last five hundred years!

I hope after what you have read you understand that your KJV MUST be scrutinized when it comes to prophetic interpretation. The KJV of 1611 IS NOT completely accurate, but based on translated opinion. If anyone tells you different they are lying to you. That is the truth.

Where the angel ends here for Daniel, the next visions and prophecy concerning Israel and Messiah are given to many prophets throughout history. The end times concerning the abomination of desolation, Jesus return and reign on earth, and the future of the human race capitulate in the writings of the apostle John.


In summary:
  • Modern Scholars reading Daniel 9:26 – 27, out of textual order, allegorize scripture with fantasy, mistaking the 70 weeks as not chronological, but separated by vast amounts of time.
  • Since the 1960’s, authors who are not language experts, conceptualize theories based on previous false ideology about prophetic scripture and have retail success with such.
  • The theory that there is thousands of years between the 69th and 70th week takes a foothold in modern Christianity as fact, not fiction, or theory.
  • The rapture becomes a staple diet to Christians along with various stages of Revelation mixed in with the 70th week of Gabriel as the theories morph and evolve.
  • The secular world latches onto the retail success of the Christian fictional stories and renders their conception of reality/sci-fi to the population.

The abomination seen with Antiochus Epiphanes, was a shadow of things to come. Titus destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, was a shadow of things to come. The Crusades, Capetians, Medieval Inquisition, Jewish expulsion in Europe, Hitler’s destruction of millions of Jews and tens of millions of people – all shadows of the great suffering to come with Yom YHWH. For these events in history portray an inkling of the suffering to come to the whole world.

The horrific events of history depict for all Jews and the Saints to know and understand what are the signs to see from experience of the past. To understand the beginnings of such tyranny, seizing of property, unjust taxation (Produit des Juifs), false treaty, laws for heretics, banishment, murder, genocide, all things suffered in diaspora for recognition of that Great Day.

Peace be upon all who hope in Christ Jesus our Adonai, redeemer, and savior from eternal death!
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
My point would have more to do with the following:

--the prophecy (vv.24-27) is SEQUENTIAL;

--thus, "the anointed one" of which v.26a says "shall be CUT OFF [/destroyed, per "Brenton"]" takes place before the next thing in the SEQUENCE, which is...

--the "destroy the city and the sanctuary" thing (and Jesus spoke of this on the very day that the "69 Weeks [total]" were concluded, when He DID the Zech9:9 thing, and SAID the Lk19:41-44 thing [<--His words paralleling the Lk21:23,20 thing, and the Matt22:7 thing]; BOTH of these having to do with "THE CITY [/Jerusalem]" just as the prophecy states); then the next thing in the SEQUENCE, is...

--"the prince THAT IS COMING" v.26b (which is parallel with 2Th2:9a "whose COMING [/ARRIVAL / ADVENT / PRESENCE / parousia] is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and LYING wonders, And with a DECEIVABLENESS of unrighteousness unto..." [as well as parallel to other related passages])...
 

DJZawada

Active member
Jul 25, 2020
114
31
28
www.yomyhwh.com
Is this a typo?

The "final WEEK of years" is not "49"... but "7"
[v.27a "for ONE WEEK" aka "7 years"... not "49"]
My mistake on the earlier response as you are viewing translation from the inaccurate translations, which is difficult for me to see scripture in that rendering as it's false.

You are viewing the "final 7 weeks" as if this has not happened yet and it has. The 7 weeks you refer to occurred under Epiphanes IV in 167 BC, which is historical fact whether you realize/believe it or not.

The only reason you are confused about this is that you believe in theories based on incorrectly rendered scriptures. Verse 26 and 27 must be read in proper place in the rendering of which the KJV and all major publications DO NOT display as such.

I don't say that as an insult, as at one time I was just as ignorant in manuscript manipulation until after 15 years of rendering and the Lord granting me access to ancient docs to read and view unmolested which is kept secret from the populations.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
I wondered about the 116 days of leap years Sir Robert Anderson added. I was at the U of I at the time as a student, so I wrote a program to calculate leap years with a beginning and ending date - just to check and see if the 116 days was correct. It was.
Perhaps you need to understand the source of (Sir Robert Anderson)

He followed the false teachings of Occultist Rosicrucian/Alchemist/Kabbalahist (Sir Issac Newton)

Newton was the originator of the 70 weeks of Daniel interpretation, and many other aspects of what is now found in Dispensationalism


Observations upon the Prophecies of Daniel and the Apocalypse of St. John
 

DJZawada

Active member
Jul 25, 2020
114
31
28
www.yomyhwh.com
My point would have more to do with the following:

--the prophecy (vv.24-27) is SEQUENTIAL;

--thus, "the anointed one" of which v.26a says "shall be CUT OFF [/destroyed, per "Brenton"]" takes place before the next thing in the SEQUENCE, which is...

--the "destroy the city and the sanctuary" thing (and Jesus spoke of this on the very day that the "69 Weeks [total]" were concluded, when He DID the Zech9:9 thing, and SAID the Lk19:41-44 thing [<--His words paralleling the Lk21:23,20 thing, and the Matt22:7 thing]; BOTH of these having to do with "THE CITY [/Jerusalem]" just as the prophecy states); then the next thing in the SEQUENCE, is...

--"the prince THAT IS COMING" v.26b (which is parallel with 2Th2:9a "whose COMING [/ARRIVAL / ADVENT / PRESENCE / parousia] is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and LYING wonders, And with a DECEIVABLENESS of unrighteousness unto..." [as well as parallel to other related passages])...
it will be difficult due to cognitve dissonance to remove the years of build up deception that molded your mind in scripture - I apologize for how harsh that sounds, but sorry it's accurate when it comes to scripture manipulation.

The verse 26 and 27 are out of place simple as that.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
My mistake on the earlier response as you are viewing translation from the inaccurate translations, which is difficult for me to see scripture in that rendering as it's false.

You are viewing the "final 7 weeks" as if this has not happened yet and it has. The 7 weeks you refer to occurred under Epiphanes IV in 167 BC, which is historical fact whether you realize/believe it or not.

The only reason you are confused about this is that you believe in theories based on incorrectly rendered scriptures. Verse 26 and 27 must be read in proper place in the rendering of which the KJV and all major publications DO NOT display as such.

I don't say that as an insult, as at one time I was just as ignorant in manuscript manipulation until after 15 years of rendering and the Lord granting me access to ancient docs to read and view unmolested which is kept secret from the populations.
Your Preterist teaching that Antiochus Epiphanies 167BC fulfilled Daniel's prophecy is false

The figure of Daniel 9:27 below will be present on earth to the consummation (The Ultimate End)

Merriam/Webster
Definition of consummation


1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signaturespecifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end : FINISH

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
 

DJZawada

Active member
Jul 25, 2020
114
31
28
www.yomyhwh.com
This is how Daniel reads correct:

24. Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: (69 weeks) the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

27. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

26. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.”

26 and 27 are out of order in KJV

you should be shaking you head about now.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
The verse 26 and 27 are out of place simple as that.
Well, I didn't even GET TO verse 27 in that post where I was explaining the SEQUENTIAL nature of vv.24-27 ;) (due to being called away by a phone call), which v.27 is just telling what the v.26b person will *do*...

the main point being that the passage is SEQUENTIAL (where "the anointed one" had already been "CUT OFF" at v.26a, before the rest of the SEQUENTIAL passage unfolds [including vv.26b [/person] and 27a/b/c <-- which is "the 7 years" thing]).
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
This is how Daniel reads correct:

24. Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: (69 weeks) the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

27. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

26. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.”

26 and 27 are out of order in KJV

you should be shaking you head about now.
Your now a translator of the Hebrew Manuscripts, With Flase Claims The King James Translators Had It Wrong, Real Big Smiles! :giggle:
INTRODUCTION
At least sixty men were directly involved in the translation of the King James Bible (hereinafter KJB). Most were Translators, while a few were project overseers, revisers and editors. Some served in several roles. Who were these men? What were their backgrounds? What did they share? In what ways were they different? They were a diverse group. While some were born in large cities and towns, most were from small villages scattered throughout England. Several were the children of university graduates, most were not. They were sons of mariners, farmers, school teachers, cordwainers (leather merchants), fletchers (makers of bows and arrows), ministers, brewers, tailors, and aristocrats. All were members of the Church of England, but their religious views ran the gamut. Some were ardent Puritans, others staunch defenders of the religious establishment. Some believed in pre-destination and limited salvation as taught by John Calvin, while others believed in self-determination and universal access to heaven as taught by Jacobus Arminius.
All of the Translators were university graduates. Oxford and Cambridge claimed nearly equal numbers of Translators as alumni. All of the Translators except one were ordained Church of England priests. While several of the Translators had traveled to the Continent, only one had ventured to the New World. Most of the Translators were married men (38 of 60) with families. Most of the Translators spent a significant portion of their career associated with their colleges and universities as fellows, involved in teaching and administration. As fellows, they were not allowed to marry. As a result many delayed marriage until they had established themselves in church office away from the university. When the translation commenced in 1604-1605, the majority of the Translators, 22, were in their forties, 16 men were in their thirties, 15 in their fifties, 3 in their sixties and 3 in their twenties.
One Translator died in his thirties, six in their forties, nineteen in their fifties, sixteen in their sixties, four in their seventies, three in their eighties and one, over one hundred. Nine of the Translators died before the KJB was published in the 1611.
Most of the Translators were in comfortable economic circumstances during and after their time involved in the translation. The association and friendships they developed during the translation project generally advanced their careers. Some of the Translators went on to high church and academic office. Five went on to serve as bishops and two as archbishops.
They all had a familiarity with the ancient languages of Latin, Greek, Hebrew, and often many more. They came on the historical scene at a time when the knowledge of early biblical texts and language was exploding. Such a flowering of interest and expertise was unique. Bible historian, Gordon Campbell, has observed:
The population from which scholars can now be drawn is much larger than in the seventeenth century, but it would be difficult now to bring together a group of more than fifty scholars with the range of languages and knowledge of other disciplines that characterized the KJB Translators. (Bible – The Story of the King James Version 1611-2011 Oxford, Gordon Campbell, Oxford University Press 2010.)​
For such a diverse group, they worked together in harmony during a generally contentious time. They had disagreements, to be sure, but they labored on, year after year. There were no "tell all books" published after the fact. Miles Smith remarked in his preface to the KJB, the Translators "were greater in other men's eyes than in their own, and sought truth rather than their own praise". They approached the task of translation with humility, understanding they were standing on the shoulders of giants like William Tyndale. Believers all, the Translators, according to Smith "craved the assistance of God's Spirit by prayer" as they proceeded in their work.
Though almost all were well known within the religious and academic community of the time, their involvement in the translation went largely unnoticed by the public. Their individual and group effort was not the subject of historical inquiry until many years after the fact. As a result, little information about the process of translation survived. The lives of the Translators and sometimes their very identity became obscured with time. In certain instances, the place of their birth and burial is unknown, and their family circumstance in doubt. Until this anniversary year, few could name even one Translator, let alone sixty. The following brief biographies are written in the hope to shed further light on these men who contributed so much.
 

DJZawada

Active member
Jul 25, 2020
114
31
28
www.yomyhwh.com
the main point being that the passage is SEQUENTIAL (where "the anointed one" had already been "CUT OFF" at v.26a, before the rest of the SEQUENTIAL passage unfolds [including vv.26b and 27a/b/c <-- which is "the 7 years" thing]).
correct and incorrect.

yes sequential - following in sequence, not consecutive in this manner:

  1. 27. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
  2. 26. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.”
#2 has nothing to do with 7 years or one week of years. The bold in 27 are errors.