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We are not saved by works, if we were we would be God and we aren't.
We are not saved without obeying the law best we can, or working if that is the only way you can comprehend this.
They are both true. One does not cancel the other. God says so, God knows you don't.
Those are core facts, unchangeable God principles, the way the world is made. Any way that worldly logic is used must fit these two core, basic ways of our Lord.
Christ saves us from death through sinning. Our part in that is to go to Him for cleansing by repenting and asking forgiveness.
It is not complicated, all scripture fits this, unless we just look at one part without accepting all of scripture.
We are not saved without obeying the law best we can, or working if that is the only way you can comprehend this.
They are both true. One does not cancel the other. God says so, God knows you don't.
Those are core facts, unchangeable God principles, the way the world is made. Any way that worldly logic is used must fit these two core, basic ways of our Lord.
Christ saves us from death through sinning. Our part in that is to go to Him for cleansing by repenting and asking forgiveness.
It is not complicated, all scripture fits this, unless we just look at one part without accepting all of scripture.
E
Why are you all so focused on pleasing God? If God really wanted to be pleased, by our works, then why'd He sent Christ? Why did God have to send Christ to pay for the total remission of sin, when all He really wanted was for us to please Him? If you want to please God, then try going into religion. Religion's all abut that, you know, the works and deeds. But don't bring works into Christianity. It's not a religion, it's a faith. Why call yourself a "Christian" when it's all about your works, and not Christ's? Find an explanation for that, and a good one, then, I myself will offer works to God and completely ignore the fact that Christ did what I couldn't do. Have a good day. God bless.
P
There was the true light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man.
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man,but of God. (John 1:9-13)
He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man,but of God. (John 1:9-13)
E
Tell me this. If your works could save you, then why do you need Christ? I don't get it with all of you. You say one thing, yet do the complete opposite. Remember Christ. Don't forget what God started. From the beginning of the Bible, till the very end, God spoke of Christ. From the Book of Genesis all the way to the Book of Revelation, God shows us how Christ will, did, and have saved us and pay for the total remission of sin. Don't forget why you call yourself a Christian. And don't make a mockery out of Christianity. Christianity is for the lost, the poor at heart, the sinful,the outcasts, and the ones with the guts to admit that. If you won't admit it, then just walk away. But don't mess with His Word.
E
Your definition of "works" and God's definition of it are two totally different thins altogether. Your works aren't for saving. You've already been saved, through Christ's finished work, but you have the choice to accept that salvation, or not. I give my works to worship Him. To tell the world of His greatness. Like right now. I'm working. Writing this. But not so I can get saved. Learn the difference between the two. They're a different ball-game altogether. Don't mix it up.
And fruit? That's the outcome of the Holy Spirit entering into our lives. The fruit of the Spirit. Love, joy, peace, etc.
And fruit? That's the outcome of the Holy Spirit entering into our lives. The fruit of the Spirit. Love, joy, peace, etc.
L
That is what I said that the fruit of Christ in us is that we become commandment keepers. And no my definition of works comes from the Bible. Here are some verses to consider.
James 2:20-22 KJV
(20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
(21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
(22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
James 2:20-22 KJV
(20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
(21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
(22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
E
And now, read this verse.
And you [He made alive], when you were dead (slain) by [your] trespasses and sinsIn which at one time you walked [habitually]. You were following the courseandfashion of this world [were under the sway of the tendency of this present age], following the prince of the power of the air. [You were obedient to and under the control of] the [demon] spirit that still constantly works in the sons of disobedience [the careless, the rebellious, and the unbelieving, who go against the purposes of God].Among these we as well as you once livedandconducted ourselves in the passions of our flesh [our behavior governed by our corrupt and sensual nature], obeying the impulses of the flesh and the thoughts of the mind [our cravings dictated by our senses and our dark imaginings]. We were then by nature children of [God’s] wrathandheirs of [His] indignation, like the rest of mankind.But God—so rich is He in His mercy! Because ofandin order to satisfy the greatandwonderfulandintense love with which He loved us, Even when we were dead (slain) by [our own] shortcomings andtrespasses, He made us alive together in fellowshipandin union with Christ; [He gave us the very life of Christ Himself, the same new life with which He quickened Him, for] it is by grace (His favor and mercy which you did not deserve) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation).And He raised us up together with Him and made us sit down together [giving usjoint seating with Him] in the heavenly sphere [by virtue of our being] in Christ Jesus (the Messiah, the Anointed One).He did this that He might clearly demonstrate through the ages to come the immeasurable (limitless, surpassing) riches of His free grace (His unmerited favor) in [His] kindnessand goodness of heart toward us in Christ Jesus. For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgmentandmade partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God;Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]For we are God’s [own] handiwork (His workmanship),recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live]
And you [He made alive], when you were dead (slain) by [your] trespasses and sinsIn which at one time you walked [habitually]. You were following the courseandfashion of this world [were under the sway of the tendency of this present age], following the prince of the power of the air. [You were obedient to and under the control of] the [demon] spirit that still constantly works in the sons of disobedience [the careless, the rebellious, and the unbelieving, who go against the purposes of God].Among these we as well as you once livedandconducted ourselves in the passions of our flesh [our behavior governed by our corrupt and sensual nature], obeying the impulses of the flesh and the thoughts of the mind [our cravings dictated by our senses and our dark imaginings]. We were then by nature children of [God’s] wrathandheirs of [His] indignation, like the rest of mankind.But God—so rich is He in His mercy! Because ofandin order to satisfy the greatandwonderfulandintense love with which He loved us, Even when we were dead (slain) by [our own] shortcomings andtrespasses, He made us alive together in fellowshipandin union with Christ; [He gave us the very life of Christ Himself, the same new life with which He quickened Him, for] it is by grace (His favor and mercy which you did not deserve) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation).And He raised us up together with Him and made us sit down together [giving usjoint seating with Him] in the heavenly sphere [by virtue of our being] in Christ Jesus (the Messiah, the Anointed One).He did this that He might clearly demonstrate through the ages to come the immeasurable (limitless, surpassing) riches of His free grace (His unmerited favor) in [His] kindnessand goodness of heart toward us in Christ Jesus. For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgmentandmade partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God;Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]For we are God’s [own] handiwork (His workmanship),recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live]
H
What is our fruit unto holiness?
It's Christ the firstfruits.
1Cor 15:20
But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
And thus believers are holy.
Rom 11:16
if the firstfruit (Christ) is holy, the lump is also holy.
And this without the deeds of the law.
It's Christ the firstfruits.
1Cor 15:20
But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
And thus believers are holy.
Rom 11:16
if the firstfruit (Christ) is holy, the lump is also holy.
And this without the deeds of the law.
Peace be with you, it is true for beginners, GOD bless you with kindness and peace. JESUS said this last words at the cross and died and on the third day HE rose again. JESUS is saying to those who have continued in HIS teachings, They who listened and paid attention to HIS teachings from the beginning. They are those who lived then during JESUS and the Apostles and they are those who live now during the Holy Bible taught under the guidance of the HOLY SPIRIT who inspired the Bible Scriptures. They are also those who have been journeying with HIM the TRINITY, continuing/keeping/abiding in HIS Teachings and the instructions of the Apostles that teaches, that rebukes errors, that corrects faults and that trains one in righteousness will know.
JESUS our LORD said this words that HE has finished the service HE had to fulfill. First, to fulfill all that the Law and Prophets demands that no carnal man can accomplish (Matthew 5;17,18). Second, after choosing disciples, from the Sermon on the mount HE started to build disciples for the New Covenant which GOD will make with them later at the Last Supper.
JESUS our LORD did do away with our sins, the past known and unknown sins. Since one is a new creation who has buried the last condemn dead in sin person, during one's Baptism must not remain empty. Example, JESUS said; 'If you put new wine into an old wine bag it will only burst. New wine must be put into a new wine bag.' Generally JESUS is saying if one have not put to death the old man of its taught knowledge and wisdom of life in this world, will find it difficult to receive the new teaching of knowledge and wisdom of the Kingdom of GOD.
The new creation in faith and gifts of the HOLY SPIRIT must also continue/keep/abide/stomach this new knowledge and wisdom everyday to be conformed and increase in behavior to CHRIST like and for GOD's love action faith for one another first, then to others.
'It is finished' also means HE have opened the gate to HIS FATHER's Kingdom. We all have come in the gate by grace through faith and it is a gift from GOD, JESUS CHRIST the Gate. Next what do we see? A narrow and windy road that leads to HIS FATHER's house and HE said, it will be difficult to follow this road. HE means HIS Teachings which conforms one to knowledge and wisdom faith of the Kingdom must be put to practice. 'Faith without action is alone dead.'
On judgement day HE will decide to separate the lawful and the lawless ones since the spiritual law of the New Covenant is in our hands and hearts.
GOD bless in honor of CHRIST's lambs and sheeps.
JESUS our LORD said this words that HE has finished the service HE had to fulfill. First, to fulfill all that the Law and Prophets demands that no carnal man can accomplish (Matthew 5;17,18). Second, after choosing disciples, from the Sermon on the mount HE started to build disciples for the New Covenant which GOD will make with them later at the Last Supper.
JESUS our LORD did do away with our sins, the past known and unknown sins. Since one is a new creation who has buried the last condemn dead in sin person, during one's Baptism must not remain empty. Example, JESUS said; 'If you put new wine into an old wine bag it will only burst. New wine must be put into a new wine bag.' Generally JESUS is saying if one have not put to death the old man of its taught knowledge and wisdom of life in this world, will find it difficult to receive the new teaching of knowledge and wisdom of the Kingdom of GOD.
The new creation in faith and gifts of the HOLY SPIRIT must also continue/keep/abide/stomach this new knowledge and wisdom everyday to be conformed and increase in behavior to CHRIST like and for GOD's love action faith for one another first, then to others.
'It is finished' also means HE have opened the gate to HIS FATHER's Kingdom. We all have come in the gate by grace through faith and it is a gift from GOD, JESUS CHRIST the Gate. Next what do we see? A narrow and windy road that leads to HIS FATHER's house and HE said, it will be difficult to follow this road. HE means HIS Teachings which conforms one to knowledge and wisdom faith of the Kingdom must be put to practice. 'Faith without action is alone dead.'
On judgement day HE will decide to separate the lawful and the lawless ones since the spiritual law of the New Covenant is in our hands and hearts.
GOD bless in honor of CHRIST's lambs and sheeps.
E
Law? I beg a differ. We're under Grace now. No more Law. Nothing to do with is. Law is about works and deeds, Grace, is about faith and belief and redemption. Very different things altogether.
Romans 6:1-14
What shall we say [to all this]? Are we to remain in sin in order that God’s grace (favor and mercy) may multiplyand overflow?Certainly not! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer? Are you ignorant of the fact that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were buried therefore with Him by the baptism into death, so that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious [power] of the Father, so we too might [habitually] live and behave in newness of life. For if we have become one with Him by sharing a death like His, we shall also be [one with Him in sharing] His resurrection [by a new life lived for God].We know that our old (unrenewed) self was nailed to the cross with Him in order that [our] body [which is the instrument] of sin might be made ineffectiveandinactive for evil, that we might no longer be the slaves of sin. For when a man dies, he is freed (loosed, delivered) from [the power of] sin [among men].Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, Because we know that Christ (the Anointed One), being once raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has power over Him. For by the death He died, He died to sin [ending His relation to it] once for all; and the life that He lives, He is living to God [in unbroken fellowship with Him].Even so consider yourselves also dead to sinandyour relation to it broken, but alive to God [living in unbroken fellowship with Him] in Christ Jesus. Let not sin therefore rule as king in your mortal (short-lived, perishable) bodies, to make you yield to its cravingsandbe subject to its lustsandevil passions. Do not continue offering or yielding your bodily members [andfaculties] to sin as instruments (tools) of wickedness. But offerandyield yourselves to God as though you have been raised from the dead to [perpetual] life, and your bodily members [andfaculties] to God, presenting them as implements of righteousness. For sin shall not [any longer] exert dominion over you, since now you are not under Law [as slaves], but under grace [as subjects of God’s favor and mercy].
Ephesians 2:1-10
And you [He made alive], when you were dead (slain) by [your] trespasses and sinsIn which at one time you walked [habitually]. You were following the courseandfashion of this world [were under the sway of the tendency of this present age], following the prince of the power of the air. [You were obedient to and under the control of] the [demon] spirit that still constantly works in the sons of disobedience [the careless, the rebellious, and the unbelieving, who go against the purposes of God].Among these we as well as you once livedandconducted ourselves in the passions of our flesh [our behavior governed by our corrupt and sensual nature], obeying the impulses of the flesh and the thoughts of the mind [our cravings dictated by our senses and our dark imaginings]. We were then by nature children of [God’s] wrathandheirs of [His] indignation, like the rest of mankind.But God—so rich is He in His mercy! Because ofandin order to satisfy the greatandwonderfulandintense love with which He loved us, Even when we were dead (slain) by [our own] shortcomings andtrespasses, He made us alive together in fellowshipandin union with Christ; [He gave us the very life of Christ Himself, the same new life with which He quickened Him, for] it is by grace (His favor and mercy which you did not deserve) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation).And He raised us up together with Him and made us sit down together [giving usjoint seating with Him] in the heavenly sphere [by virtue of our being] in Christ Jesus (the Messiah, the Anointed One).He did this that He might clearly demonstrate through the ages to come the immeasurable (limitless, surpassing) riches of His free grace (His unmerited favor) in [His] kindnessand goodness of heart toward us in Christ Jesus. For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgmentandmade partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God;Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]For we are God’s [own] handiwork (His workmanship),recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live].
Christ came to fulfill what the Father had intended. He did what the Law itself could not do. Christ offered salvation, hope, redemption. For all. Everyone. Doesn't matter about their past and future sin. Because sin is not what that sends you to Heaven or takes you to Hell. It is finished, but if translated from the original version, it means paid in full. What more can be done or said? I won't doubt the word of God.
Romans 6:1-14
What shall we say [to all this]? Are we to remain in sin in order that God’s grace (favor and mercy) may multiplyand overflow?Certainly not! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer? Are you ignorant of the fact that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? We were buried therefore with Him by the baptism into death, so that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious [power] of the Father, so we too might [habitually] live and behave in newness of life. For if we have become one with Him by sharing a death like His, we shall also be [one with Him in sharing] His resurrection [by a new life lived for God].We know that our old (unrenewed) self was nailed to the cross with Him in order that [our] body [which is the instrument] of sin might be made ineffectiveandinactive for evil, that we might no longer be the slaves of sin. For when a man dies, he is freed (loosed, delivered) from [the power of] sin [among men].Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, Because we know that Christ (the Anointed One), being once raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has power over Him. For by the death He died, He died to sin [ending His relation to it] once for all; and the life that He lives, He is living to God [in unbroken fellowship with Him].Even so consider yourselves also dead to sinandyour relation to it broken, but alive to God [living in unbroken fellowship with Him] in Christ Jesus. Let not sin therefore rule as king in your mortal (short-lived, perishable) bodies, to make you yield to its cravingsandbe subject to its lustsandevil passions. Do not continue offering or yielding your bodily members [andfaculties] to sin as instruments (tools) of wickedness. But offerandyield yourselves to God as though you have been raised from the dead to [perpetual] life, and your bodily members [andfaculties] to God, presenting them as implements of righteousness. For sin shall not [any longer] exert dominion over you, since now you are not under Law [as slaves], but under grace [as subjects of God’s favor and mercy].
Ephesians 2:1-10
And you [He made alive], when you were dead (slain) by [your] trespasses and sinsIn which at one time you walked [habitually]. You were following the courseandfashion of this world [were under the sway of the tendency of this present age], following the prince of the power of the air. [You were obedient to and under the control of] the [demon] spirit that still constantly works in the sons of disobedience [the careless, the rebellious, and the unbelieving, who go against the purposes of God].Among these we as well as you once livedandconducted ourselves in the passions of our flesh [our behavior governed by our corrupt and sensual nature], obeying the impulses of the flesh and the thoughts of the mind [our cravings dictated by our senses and our dark imaginings]. We were then by nature children of [God’s] wrathandheirs of [His] indignation, like the rest of mankind.But God—so rich is He in His mercy! Because ofandin order to satisfy the greatandwonderfulandintense love with which He loved us, Even when we were dead (slain) by [our own] shortcomings andtrespasses, He made us alive together in fellowshipandin union with Christ; [He gave us the very life of Christ Himself, the same new life with which He quickened Him, for] it is by grace (His favor and mercy which you did not deserve) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation).And He raised us up together with Him and made us sit down together [giving usjoint seating with Him] in the heavenly sphere [by virtue of our being] in Christ Jesus (the Messiah, the Anointed One).He did this that He might clearly demonstrate through the ages to come the immeasurable (limitless, surpassing) riches of His free grace (His unmerited favor) in [His] kindnessand goodness of heart toward us in Christ Jesus. For it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgmentandmade partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God;Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]For we are God’s [own] handiwork (His workmanship),recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live].
Christ came to fulfill what the Father had intended. He did what the Law itself could not do. Christ offered salvation, hope, redemption. For all. Everyone. Doesn't matter about their past and future sin. Because sin is not what that sends you to Heaven or takes you to Hell. It is finished, but if translated from the original version, it means paid in full. What more can be done or said? I won't doubt the word of God.
You are deviating away from the subject introduced in the OP and leaving her uncorrected.
Go back and ponder my post #97
The scriptures are quite plain as to what Jesus meant and if you will grasp what I said in post #97 then you will find other places in the scriptures that well support what was said there in post #97.
Go back and ponder my post #97
The scriptures are quite plain as to what Jesus meant and if you will grasp what I said in post #97 then you will find other places in the scriptures that well support what was said there in post #97.
L
We have always been under grace even before the cross. Before or after the cross no one has ever been saved by keeping the Law all are saved by grace through faith. We are saved for good works. Do a word study on grace in the old testament and see how many times it is mentioned and that by no means will exhaust the subject of grace in the OT. The Law is good the problem is with us not with the Law.
If anyone thinks the Law is no good then they think the same thing about God because the Law is a transcript of the character of God. Christ kept the law perfectly so reading the gospels is what it means to keep the law as God wants.
Romans 7:12 KJV
(12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
If anyone thinks the Law is no good then they think the same thing about God because the Law is a transcript of the character of God. Christ kept the law perfectly so reading the gospels is what it means to keep the law as God wants.
Romans 7:12 KJV
(12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
L
I see you have a lot to learn, you are young and need to learn. The sacrifices were never meant as an atonement for sin, they were meant to teach the grace and plan of salvation. they taught of the Christ to come. Before the cross they looked forward while we look back.
Hebrews 10:1-4 KJV
(1) For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
(2) For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
(3) But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
(4) For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Hebrews 10:1-4 KJV
(1) For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
(2) For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
(3) But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
(4) For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.