a born-again Christian can never (keyword: never) lose their salvation

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
246
63
I go with what Jesus said about this issue.

OSAS
John 10 NIV
24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

John 10 AMPC
24 So the Jews surrounded Him and began asking Him, How long are You going to keep us in doubt and suspense? If You are really the Christ (the Messiah), tell us so plainly and openly.
25 Jesus answered them, I have told you so, yet you do not believe Me [you do not trust Me and rely on Me]. The very works that I do by the power of My Father and in My Father’s name bear witness concerning Me [they are My credentials and evidence in support of Me].
26 But you do not believe and trust and rely on Me because you do not belong to My fold [you are no sheep of Mine].
27 The sheep that are My own hear and are listening to My voice; and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never lose it or perish throughout the ages. [To all eternity they shall never by any means be destroyed.] And no one is able to snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater and mightier than all [else]; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are One.

31 Again the Jews brought up stones to stone Him.
32 Jesus said to them, My Father has enabled Me to do many good deeds. [I have shown many acts of mercy in your presence.] For which of these do you mean to stone Me?
1 Corinthians 11:30-32
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,271
113
Correct..Jesus died ONCE for that..doesnt have to do it again..
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,271
113
Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment.
Even Satan knows Christ n knows the scripture..
 

craig1971

Junior Member
Mar 28, 2017
23
3
3
Paul's words on whether you can lose your salvation or not; read Colossians 1:23: "...(your saved) If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister..." God wants believing loyalty!
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,054
13,064
113
58
Paul's words on whether you can lose your salvation or not; read Colossians 1:23: "...(your saved) If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister..." God wants believing loyalty!
The word "if" here is not ean, an unfulfilled, hypothetical condition used with the subjunctive mode, presenting the possibility of a future realization, but ei with the indicative, having here the idea of "assuming that you continue in the faith."

That is, continuance would show that the person's faith is firmly established in the hope of the gospel and they really HAVE BEEN reconciled. Just as we read in 1 Corinthians 15:1,2 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. To "believe in vain" is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. The people who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrated that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe in the first place).

Getting back to Colossians 1:23, the form of this phrase in Greek (using the Gk. particle ei and the indicative mood of the verb epimenō) indicates that Paul fully expects that the Colossian believers will continue in the faith; no doubt is expressed, yet what about "nominal" Christians whose shallow, temporary belief withers away?

It's only natural that Paul would speak this way, for he is addressing groups of people who profess to be Christians, without being able to know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance here that they will be eternally saved when in fact they may not? Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith show thereby that they are genuine believers. But those who do not continue show that their shallow, temporary belief was not grounded in the gospel to begin with.
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,271
113
The word "if" here is not ean, an unfulfilled, hypothetical condition used with the subjunctive mode, presenting the possibility of a future realization, but ei with the indicative, having here the idea of "assuming that you continue in the faith."

That is, continuance would show that the person's faith is firmly established in the hope of the gospel and they really HAVE BEEN reconciled. Just as we read in 1 Corinthians 15:1,2 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. To "believe in vain" is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. The people who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrated that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe in the first place).

Getting back to Colossians 1:23, the form of this phrase in Greek (using the Gk. particle ei and the indicative mood of the verb epimenō) indicates that Paul fully expects that the Colossian believers will continue in the faith; no doubt is expressed, yet what about "nominal" Christians whose shallow, temporary belief withers away?

It's only natural that Paul would speak this way, for he is addressing groups of people who profess to be Christians, without being able to know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance here that they will be eternally saved when in fact they may not? Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith show thereby that they are genuine believers. But those who do not continue show that their shallow, temporary belief was not grounded in the gospel to begin with.
Morning dan!
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
246
63
The word "if" here is not ean, an unfulfilled, hypothetical condition used with the subjunctive mode, presenting the possibility of a future realization, but ei with the indicative, having here the idea of "assuming that you continue in the faith."

That is, continuance would show that the person's faith is firmly established in the hope of the gospel and they really HAVE BEEN reconciled. Just as we read in 1 Corinthians 15:1,2 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. To "believe in vain" is to believe without cause or without effect, to no purpose. The people who fail to hold fast to the word (the gospel) that Paul preached in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, demonstrated that they "believed in vain" (did not truly believe in the first place).

Getting back to Colossians 1:23, the form of this phrase in Greek (using the Gk. particle ei and the indicative mood of the verb epimenō) indicates that Paul fully expects that the Colossian believers will continue in the faith; no doubt is expressed, yet what about "nominal" Christians whose shallow, temporary belief withers away?

It's only natural that Paul would speak this way, for he is addressing groups of people who profess to be Christians, without being able to know the actual state of every person's heart. How can Paul avoid giving them false assurance here that they will be eternally saved when in fact they may not? Paul knows that faith which is firmly grounded and established in the gospel from the start will continue. Those who continue in the faith show thereby that they are genuine believers. But those who do not continue show that their shallow, temporary belief was not grounded in the gospel to begin with.
amen
 

Jewel5712

Well-known member
Jun 22, 2018
4,091
2,271
113
I am SOOOO EXCITEDDDDDD ..THERES A PARTY GOING ON TODAY IN HEAVEN N ONE AT DISCOVERY CHURCH! 11 people BAPTISED TODAY AS AN OUTWARD DISPLAY/ACT OF OBEDIANCE OF THIER PROFESSION OF FAITH How AWESOME is GOD?????? :)
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,330
16,310
113
69
Tennessee
I am SOOOO EXCITEDDDDDD ..THERES A PARTY GOING ON TODAY IN HEAVEN N ONE AT DISCOVERY CHURCH! 11 people BAPTISED TODAY AS AN OUTWARD DISPLAY/ACT OF OBEDIANCE OF THIER PROFESSION OF FAITH How AWESOME is GOD?????? :)
That is certainly a good report and now they have the blessed assured hope that their salvation is secure and can never be taken away.
 
T

theanointedsinner

Guest
salvation is the root that leads to faith and spiritual fruits (ie: love)

as long as we have the root, we will never lose that root (John 10:28)
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,054
13,064
113
58
Were the israélites God's people? Yes. Were all of His people saved? No.
BINGO! The Israelites were referred to by God as "My servant whom I have chosen" (Isaiah 43:10) even though not all of the Israelites were saved. ;)

*Additional follow up* -- Also in Leviticus 25:55, we read - For the children of Israel are servants to Me; they are My servants whom I brought out of the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God. Yet they were NOT ALL SAVED.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,054
13,064
113
58
Another old thread??..lol
I recently came across this thread and remembered that just the other day, I was reading through Leviticus and ran across that verse and thought I would mention it. ;) Maybe OneFaith will get a chance to read it. :)
 

BibletruthSOP

Active member
Apr 2, 2019
164
27
28
Yeah.. I guess I could just say "you are wrong" too, but I'll let the dozen or more passages in Scripture that speak of a judgement of the LIVING AND THE DEAD. Like this one make my point:
2 Timothy 4:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
Preach the Word
4 I charge you [a]therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead [b]at His appearing and His kingdom:

The living's sin's of course have already been judged and paid for by the Blood of Christ.

And can you please tell me that if Jesus is speaking to His born again Children, when He tells them to depart from Him to Hell, why He said He NEVER knew them? NOT, that He knew them at one time and they did or didn't do something to become unborn again, but that He NEVER knew them.

We must remember that what Jesus accomplished on the cross was for everyone, not one excepted....that is justification and is applicable to all..from the foundation of the world...it is the reason we are alive, have food, rain, sunshine, etc.
Justification by faith is receiving Christ and when one receives Christ that one is a new creature, new man, all things new. The typical evangelical gospel (just believe) is not true, not because "just believe" is not true, but because "believe" is relegated to a mental ascent and not a radical transformation. Justification by faith may be thought of as "let this mind be in you which is in Christ Jesus". Think about what one who has the mind of Jesus would actually be like....no room for sin...and that is the gospel.
 

BibletruthSOP

Active member
Apr 2, 2019
164
27
28
if I can stop being a sinner on earth, then show me how
if I can stop being a sinner on earth, then show me how
I think you mean well by your question. Remember, what Satan said to Jesus in the wilderness of temptation? He said "if" you are the Son of God..…. and Jesus knew right away what He was dealing with. "If I can stop being a sinner on earth"...………..there is no if. The gospel is pardon and power, forgiveness and restoration, cleansing/new life, etc. If we do not have the faith that will stop us from sinning, we do not have the faith that can be taken to eternal life. At Jesus second coming God is not going to turn a screw in our head so that now we are a sinless robot. Longer story short: the bible is absolutely clear that Jesus must reign in us...there can be no 1%-99% Jesus management and 1%-99% personal management. We must empty ourselves of self or the gospel can never be true for us. That is 100% bible truth. Now the blow. WE cannot empty SELF of SELF. So what is the bible solution? We can only CONSENT for Christ to do the work. When we start to realize what we are, we will 100% realize that if anything is to foundationally change, it will not be through our own effort, but through the merits and power of Jesus. Personally, talk to Jesus, realize your complete helplessness, and ask from Him faith, and to take your life, your mind, and mold it to His image.
 

Didymous

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
5,047
2,099
113
If Jesus said that unless one is born again, they cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. Then all that are born again are in the kingdom of heaven. Now come judgment day, we know that he will not judge the lost, because they have been condemned because of unbelief. But, he will judge those that are in the kingdom of heaven, and say to some. Depart from me, I never knew you. Ye workers of iniquty.
Wrong. There are two judgments, and only the unsaved will told to depart.
 

BibletruthSOP

Active member
Apr 2, 2019
164
27
28
So you would agree with MailmanDan that when Peter says they escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ these are not saved individuals. I posed this question to gotquestions.org and they said the only way to escape the defilements of the world is saving faith in Jesus.

There is no such thing in scripture as once saved always saved. It is a lie of Satan. Bring the dozens of verses touching on the subject together and it will be crystal clear that a person who becomes converted can fall away and these verses are in both the OT and NT. And never forget, Christ is not a minister of sin. It is simply amazing the masses of folk who want to be saved in their sin, rather than from their sin. There is zero compatibility between sin and righteousness. Again, Christ is not the minister of sin.