A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES
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No,Jesus said
"11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"
See that?
That is a promise from heaven.
IOW, The devil can not answer a prayer to God,or step in front of God and put something evil in His child.
We have that protection.
You have no case.
You are in conflict with the word big-time
"11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"
See that?
That is a promise from heaven.
IOW, The devil can not answer a prayer to God,or step in front of God and put something evil in His child.
We have that protection.
You have no case.
You are in conflict with the word big-time
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I just saw this post EG. Just catching up..
What is so different about absolutely in his approach about this subject, then yours and Dcons in the works thread?
I appreciate absolutely. When I first came here, that member who is so caustic in his remarks tore me up one side and down the other. And attacked my person as if I was a defilement in the forum.
No one stopped him nor defended me. Or defended the giftings.
Now that won't happen because of the men who have come to the forum. And CS1 and his bold speaking.
You defend truth and so do they. In the same manner.
We all have different personalities. Love, remember?
What is so different about absolutely in his approach about this subject, then yours and Dcons in the works thread?
I appreciate absolutely. When I first came here, that member who is so caustic in his remarks tore me up one side and down the other. And attacked my person as if I was a defilement in the forum.
No one stopped him nor defended me. Or defended the giftings.
Now that won't happen because of the men who have come to the forum. And CS1 and his bold speaking.
You defend truth and so do they. In the same manner.
We all have different personalities. Love, remember?
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Ok as for the works thread
That thread has eternal consequences
This thread is about a topic whihc is not salvic.
This thread should not cause division, it should be two sides sharing their view, and discussingn it.. Getting this topic wrong will not. lead you to hell.
When you look in the NT, You did not hear anyone get mad over a disagreement on the topic of tongues,, But if you look at “gospel” passages, you will see the people came out swinging, Even jesus himself.
Non essential topics such as gifting, age of the erth and prophecy saly, get out of hand, where they should not, we should be brothers and sisters discussing things, that gos for both sides.
That thread has eternal consequences
This thread is about a topic whihc is not salvic.
This thread should not cause division, it should be two sides sharing their view, and discussingn it.. Getting this topic wrong will not. lead you to hell.
When you look in the NT, You did not hear anyone get mad over a disagreement on the topic of tongues,, But if you look at “gospel” passages, you will see the people came out swinging, Even jesus himself.
Non essential topics such as gifting, age of the erth and prophecy saly, get out of hand, where they should not, we should be brothers and sisters discussing things, that gos for both sides.
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TruthTalk, dcontroversal, eternally-gratefull, UnderGrace, garee, Didymous, wolfwint, and any other non-charismatic true Believer.
Please view these video all the way through, Thank You.
One of my Sister-inlaws used to attend BETHAL CHURCH, in Redding, CA. So I know of it second hand, and it was a MESS, and is obviously a demon control environment, and it is a CHURCH. Yes, BETHAL CHURCH is in REDDING, CA. and one of my Sister-inlaws, really was a member of it about 15 years ago. It is now gone WORLD WIDE, and is spreading like Wild Fire.
I can condone normal Pentecostals use of their tongues, even if I do not believe in them. Personally I think it is at it's best, a so-called spiritual toy, or just mindless gibberish.
However what is NOW being mis-identified as OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, is actually a form of Kundalini Awakening, an evil spirit invading the Church, and it is actually HINDUISM's false holy spirit, and nobody is actively TESTING THE SPIRIT, and they believe anything that is miraculous is of the Holy Spirit. They are following their Feelings and what they See, when those then can be manipulated by Satin and his Demons.
1 John 4:1 (HCSB)
1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to determine if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Please view these video all the way through, Thank You.
One of my Sister-inlaws used to attend BETHAL CHURCH, in Redding, CA. So I know of it second hand, and it was a MESS, and is obviously a demon control environment, and it is a CHURCH. Yes, BETHAL CHURCH is in REDDING, CA. and one of my Sister-inlaws, really was a member of it about 15 years ago. It is now gone WORLD WIDE, and is spreading like Wild Fire.
I can condone normal Pentecostals use of their tongues, even if I do not believe in them. Personally I think it is at it's best, a so-called spiritual toy, or just mindless gibberish.
However what is NOW being mis-identified as OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, is actually a form of Kundalini Awakening, an evil spirit invading the Church, and it is actually HINDUISM's false holy spirit, and nobody is actively TESTING THE SPIRIT, and they believe anything that is miraculous is of the Holy Spirit. They are following their Feelings and what they See, when those then can be manipulated by Satin and his Demons.
1 John 4:1 (HCSB)
1 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to determine if they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
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That thread has eternal consequences
One more comment unless you feel a need for rebuttal EG.
Mat 10:20 It won't be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
If you read the whole of the scripture, you will see that prophecy can most certainly be a salvific thing.
Have you had this experience where you opened your mouth and what came out was not of you. You know it and are being taught as well? One can prophecy and not speak in tongues but am sure that tongues is there as well.
It can also be the gift of wisdom or knowledge. I'm sure many of you may move this way and is acceptable to you, but tongues you find offensive. If you have the baptism of Holy Spirit, you will move in a voice gift some way, for then we are Spiritual, no longer natural. The natural is shown then to be dead at the Cross with the sacrifice of Jesus.
And as I saw yesterday with the Sabbath rest? When we move in Tabernacles...the fullness, it will no longer be law interfering with our walk. Complete rest in His Spirit. Moving and having our very being in Him.
One more comment unless you feel a need for rebuttal EG.
Mat 10:20 It won't be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
If you read the whole of the scripture, you will see that prophecy can most certainly be a salvific thing.
Have you had this experience where you opened your mouth and what came out was not of you. You know it and are being taught as well? One can prophecy and not speak in tongues but am sure that tongues is there as well.
It can also be the gift of wisdom or knowledge. I'm sure many of you may move this way and is acceptable to you, but tongues you find offensive. If you have the baptism of Holy Spirit, you will move in a voice gift some way, for then we are Spiritual, no longer natural. The natural is shown then to be dead at the Cross with the sacrifice of Jesus.
And as I saw yesterday with the Sabbath rest? When we move in Tabernacles...the fullness, it will no longer be law interfering with our walk. Complete rest in His Spirit. Moving and having our very being in Him.
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You do not UNDERSTAND my Motive. I have been answering those kind of questions since the Mid 80's, and I have not seen a new question in at least the last two DECADES. And you expect me to continue the MOST MINOR SUBJECT in the whole BIBLE, just because you want to DEBATE ME. LOOK AT THE TITLE. I made it PLAIN THAT I WAS GOING TO PRESENT ONE SIDE of the ISSUE:
A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES.
How much more plain can I make it. I what to show NON-charismatic BELIEVERS, how to explain OUR COMMON BELIEFS.
I do not care that you disagree.
A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES.
How much more plain can I make it. I what to show NON-charismatic BELIEVERS, how to explain OUR COMMON BELIEFS.
I do not care that you disagree.
Our corrupted spirit? Or our new by which Christ lives us and therefore not of us? Of men or of God.?
Speaking into the air in a situation that intellectually we do not know how to pray for? How would that edify both the speaker and the hearer if they were trying to have a private conversation as in personal relationship?. . It is not as three walk together. in agreement but two …..us and Christ. Much stumbling in a three legged race.
Yes when he gives us his comforting word he gives us ears to hear .He does not make a noise and say go find someone to give their own private interpretation of what they think the sounds makes. That describes the method of operation for the father of lies. "Look to the things seen to give you the understanding and not the things the things not seen, the things of faith .keep your eyes open "they stumbled over the cross
How could they understand and respond to the call if they have no ears to verify what the Holy Spirit is teaching them? Tongues, God's word is bringing his interpretation as our new understanding, and by that interpretation are given their new faith, new spirt, new heart by which they can please God as he does work in His children of light to both will and perform His god pleasure (imputed righteousness)
Do we ignore the warning in resect to the spirt of the antichrist? I would think we n must be careful on how we hear or say we hear so that we can abide in Him not seen .
These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.1 John2:26-27
Speaking into the air in a situation that intellectually we do not know how to pray for? How would that edify both the speaker and the hearer if they were trying to have a private conversation as in personal relationship?. . It is not as three walk together. in agreement but two …..us and Christ. Much stumbling in a three legged race.
Yes when he gives us his comforting word he gives us ears to hear .He does not make a noise and say go find someone to give their own private interpretation of what they think the sounds makes. That describes the method of operation for the father of lies. "Look to the things seen to give you the understanding and not the things the things not seen, the things of faith .keep your eyes open "they stumbled over the cross
How could they understand and respond to the call if they have no ears to verify what the Holy Spirit is teaching them? Tongues, God's word is bringing his interpretation as our new understanding, and by that interpretation are given their new faith, new spirt, new heart by which they can please God as he does work in His children of light to both will and perform His god pleasure (imputed righteousness)
Do we ignore the warning in resect to the spirt of the antichrist? I would think we n must be careful on how we hear or say we hear so that we can abide in Him not seen .
These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.1 John2:26-27
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Prophesy is foretelling the future.
All prophets spoke as God spoke through them, s this is nothign new
Even in the OT. A prophet was considered a false prophet if the prophesy did not come true (the people were even told he was not from God)
When it is said, God will speak thoough you. I have witnessed that, But it was not a prophesy, it was sitting in front of a home group leading a bible study. I have even had prayers come out that I know was not from me, and I have talked to people. And had them speak to me about things going on in each others lives and sometimes, that too was not my own word, Or even could be a form of prophecy per say when you are shown a sin that person is doing and you have never even witnessed it. And you speak to them and they confess.
One thing about all of these things, It was all done in english..
I will just leave it there sis
As for eternal consequences. Unless a persons eternal life is in danger (which it never is otherwise it owuld not be eternal) or the decision a person needs to make concerning their eternal destiny, While it may have eternal consequences s for as blessings or something, You can not compar it to the eternal consequence of chosing the wrong gospel and ending up in hell. .
All prophets spoke as God spoke through them, s this is nothign new
Even in the OT. A prophet was considered a false prophet if the prophesy did not come true (the people were even told he was not from God)
When it is said, God will speak thoough you. I have witnessed that, But it was not a prophesy, it was sitting in front of a home group leading a bible study. I have even had prayers come out that I know was not from me, and I have talked to people. And had them speak to me about things going on in each others lives and sometimes, that too was not my own word, Or even could be a form of prophecy per say when you are shown a sin that person is doing and you have never even witnessed it. And you speak to them and they confess.
One thing about all of these things, It was all done in english..
I will just leave it there sis
As for eternal consequences. Unless a persons eternal life is in danger (which it never is otherwise it owuld not be eternal) or the decision a person needs to make concerning their eternal destiny, While it may have eternal consequences s for as blessings or something, You can not compar it to the eternal consequence of chosing the wrong gospel and ending up in hell. .
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Prophesy is foretelling the future.
I agree that it can be. Or correction. Most that I've heard has either been what's the will or purpose that God has for an individual or a fellowship.
All prophets spoke as God spoke through them, s this is nothign new
I'm not sure that OT prophets spoke from within. Holy Spirit rested upon them or anointed them to minister. But, they weren't born again. Prophets today are.
Even in the OT. A prophet was considered a false prophet if the prophesy did not come true (the people were even told he was not from God)
Ok
When it is said, God will speak thoough you. I have witnessed that, But it was not a prophesy, it was sitting in front of a home group leading a bible study. I have even had prayers come out that I know was not from me, and I have talked to people. And had them speak to me about things going on in each others lives and sometimes, that too was not my own word, Or even could be a form of prophecy per say when you are shown a sin that person is doing and you have never even witnessed it. And you speak to them and they confess.
One thing about all of these things, It was all done in english..
Of course. It would be. As I said before, only the gift of tongues that is equal to prophecy is in another tongue or language. And it has to be interpreted.
I will just leave it there sis
If you have a point, then I missed it.
As for eternal consequences. Unless a persons eternal life is in danger (which it never is otherwise it owuld not be eternal) or the decision a person needs to make concerning their eternal destiny, While it may have eternal consequences s for as blessings or something, You can not compar it to the eternal consequence of chosing the wrong gospel and ending up in hell. .
No I can't when it's eternal salvation. But in Acts I know Paul was looking to God for what to say in answer to charges being brought against him. And he heard. That's why I brought the scripture out of Matthew. In a day where our heads could possibly roll, I hope that a Word from the Lord could be freeing if ever in a same situation.
Or an angel opening a jail cell. 😇 If not? Heaven is wonderful so I've read.
Have you ever thought man could eat angels food?
I agree that it can be. Or correction. Most that I've heard has either been what's the will or purpose that God has for an individual or a fellowship.
All prophets spoke as God spoke through them, s this is nothign new
I'm not sure that OT prophets spoke from within. Holy Spirit rested upon them or anointed them to minister. But, they weren't born again. Prophets today are.
Even in the OT. A prophet was considered a false prophet if the prophesy did not come true (the people were even told he was not from God)
Ok
When it is said, God will speak thoough you. I have witnessed that, But it was not a prophesy, it was sitting in front of a home group leading a bible study. I have even had prayers come out that I know was not from me, and I have talked to people. And had them speak to me about things going on in each others lives and sometimes, that too was not my own word, Or even could be a form of prophecy per say when you are shown a sin that person is doing and you have never even witnessed it. And you speak to them and they confess.
One thing about all of these things, It was all done in english..
Of course. It would be. As I said before, only the gift of tongues that is equal to prophecy is in another tongue or language. And it has to be interpreted.
I will just leave it there sis
If you have a point, then I missed it.
As for eternal consequences. Unless a persons eternal life is in danger (which it never is otherwise it owuld not be eternal) or the decision a person needs to make concerning their eternal destiny, While it may have eternal consequences s for as blessings or something, You can not compar it to the eternal consequence of chosing the wrong gospel and ending up in hell. .
No I can't when it's eternal salvation. But in Acts I know Paul was looking to God for what to say in answer to charges being brought against him. And he heard. That's why I brought the scripture out of Matthew. In a day where our heads could possibly roll, I hope that a Word from the Lord could be freeing if ever in a same situation.
Or an angel opening a jail cell. 😇 If not? Heaven is wonderful so I've read.
Have you ever thought man could eat angels food?
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Can be? A prophesy is a prediction of a future event, A prophet is one who prophesies. When the event comes true then God is glorified Examples of OT prophets are daniel, Isaiah, Ezekial. Jeremiah.
So the prophets who spoke of prophetic events spoke from within? And it was Not God speaking through them?
Daniel and his 70 week prophesy was Daniels thoughts and not Gods?
Sis, you are worrying me, Is this what you are taugh??
duet 18: 22 -
Deuteronomy 18:22
when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him
It is scripture sis.
All tongues require interpretation
1 cor 14: 6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching? 7 Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known what is piped or played? 8 For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare for battle? 9 So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of languages in the world, and none of them is without [b]significance. 11 Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be a [c]foreigner to him who speaks, and he who speaks will be a foreigner to me. 12 Even so you, since you are [d]zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the [e]edification of the church that you seek to excel.
Paul here says if one speaks in tongues, where it be for prophesying, teaching, Revelation or revelation, It must be interpreted. Otherwise it is spoken to as a foregner. And the context of this is speaking to the church for edifying the church
Again, If I am speaking in tongues, an dno one can understand me, it is meaningless for all who listen to what I say. Those are pauls words not mine,
My point was that my church did what you said we should do. And no foriegn language was used by anyone.
When we get to heaven we will eat food so perfect our tast buds will not know how to act!!
So the prophets who spoke of prophetic events spoke from within? And it was Not God speaking through them?
Daniel and his 70 week prophesy was Daniels thoughts and not Gods?
Sis, you are worrying me, Is this what you are taugh??
duet 18: 22 -
Deuteronomy 18:22
when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him
It is scripture sis.
All tongues require interpretation
1 cor 14: 6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you unless I speak to you either by revelation, by knowledge, by prophesying, or by teaching? 7 Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known what is piped or played? 8 For if the trumpet makes an uncertain sound, who will prepare for battle? 9 So likewise you, unless you utter by the tongue words easy to understand, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of languages in the world, and none of them is without [b]significance. 11 Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be a [c]foreigner to him who speaks, and he who speaks will be a foreigner to me. 12 Even so you, since you are [d]zealous for spiritual gifts, let it be for the [e]edification of the church that you seek to excel.
Paul here says if one speaks in tongues, where it be for prophesying, teaching, Revelation or revelation, It must be interpreted. Otherwise it is spoken to as a foregner. And the context of this is speaking to the church for edifying the church
Again, If I am speaking in tongues, an dno one can understand me, it is meaningless for all who listen to what I say. Those are pauls words not mine,
My point was that my church did what you said we should do. And no foriegn language was used by anyone.
When we get to heaven we will eat food so perfect our tast buds will not know how to act!!
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