Amillennialism

[Red33]

Good morning EG. I am not now nor ever will I be willing/content to exchange whatever semblance of integrity I might have in the Lord for the sake of any "friendship" with anybody. I will be honest here and say yes ..... there have been a few occasions on this thread where I am of the opinion that Strangelove could have tempered the point he was making in a gentler manner. Having said that, I'd be lying if I said that the same thing isn't true of yourself as well. Furthermore, I myself can be thrown into the mix also, if not on this thread, at least certainly on others. But like all imperfect creatures, we sometimes allow our passion to cloud our better judgement. I've avoided this thread for good reason. For many years, I was like most people that adhered to the dispensational teachings and more specifically, the pre-trib rapture. And as much as I'd like to be able to say that it is easy to discern and understand, the simple truth is that it is not. Arguments have been made to substantiate each point of view for centuries ........ and this debate will not go away until Christ does in fact return. I am personally convinced of the amillennialist position. And this I also believe ...... those not prepared to give up all, including their very life for the sake of their faith in Christ are those who would forsake it under severe tribulation. This I am also sure of. We are getting close to the return of Christ ..... and there will be only two advents.......with one already occurring. Even though we may not agree on all things biblical, I still consider you, Red and others my brothers in Christ. We all fall short and are in need of God's grace. Let each of us present our case and trust the Holy Spirit to convict where He will. However great our passion, it pales in comparison to what God can and will do. I love you EG.

For some your post may be compelling, but not to me for there is no compromise nor is there any 'we agree to disagree'. That is foolishness and Christ does not have to come to confirm what the scriptures teach. Do you hope that the way of salvation that you believed and have trusted God for, is the right salvation through His Son, or is another way possible? Does Christ have to come back again to confirm that He judged and paid for sin through His death and the shedding of His blood the first time He came? NO! We don't compromise salvation for it is by grace through faith because of the cross, nor do we compromise the doctrine and mystery of Christ and the church.

Our hope is based on the evidence and trustworthiness of the scriptures that produce in us the substance of faith. The inspiration of truth in scripture is not given as a divided truth to be believed with our own understanding that results in double-mindedness, but has been given to promote and give believers one faith and one hope of our calling. There is no compromise in that, only oneness as likeminded believers that believe in one salvation and one Lord who gives it, to one one body of Christ made of many members, who have the same Spirit.

1Cor 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

 

[Strangelove]

Questions for Premillers:

Matthew 25:31, 46; Revelation 20:11-15: Jesus said, "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious [Great White] throne. ALL THE NATIONS will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and He will put THE SHEEP on His right, and THE GOATS on the left...[Then after the Judgment, the unrighteous] will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." Who will be present at the Great White Throne Judgment?


​

John 5:28-29: "For AN HOUR [singular] is coming, in which ALL who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; THOSE WHO DID THE GOOD DEEDS [the saints] to a resurrection of life, THOSE WHO COMMITTED EVIL DEEDS [the unsaved] to a resurrection of judgment." Who will be resurrected at the same hour?


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John 6:39-40: Jesus said, "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up ON THE LAST DAY. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up ON THE LAST DAY." When will the believers be raised up?


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John 6:44: Jesus said, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up ON THE LAST DAY." When will the saved be raised up?


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John 11:24: "Martha said to Him [Jesus], I know that he [Lazarus] will rise again in the resurrection ON THE LAST DAY." When will the resurrection of the saints be?


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John 12:48: Jesus said, "He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him AT THE LAST DAY." When will the Judgment of the unsaved be?


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Acts 24:15: "There shall certainly be A RESURRECTION [singular] OF BOTH the righteous and the wicked [together]." When will the resurrection of the righteous and the wicked be?


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1 Thessalonians 4:15-17: Paul said, "For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that WE WHO ARE ALIVE and remain until the coming of the Lord, WILL NOT PRECEDE THOSE WHO HAVE FALLEN ASLEEP. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and WITH THE [last] TRUMPET of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord." What instrument will be sounded when the rapture and the resurrection of the saints occurs?


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2 Thessalonians 2:1-3: Paul said, "...With regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him [the rapture]...Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come UNLESS THE APOSTASY COMES FIRST, AND THE MAN OF LAWLESSNESS [Antichrist] IS REVEALED, the son of destruction." What must come before the rapture? Will Christ return at any moment before these events?


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1 Corinthians 15:51-52: Paul said, "Behold, I tell you a mystery; we [Christians] WILL NOT ALL SLEEP, but we will all be changed [at the rapture], in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMPET; for the trumpet will sound, and THE DEAD WILL BE RAISED incorruptible, and we will ALL be changed." When will the saints, alive and dead, be changed in the twinkling of an eye?


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Revelation 10:7: "In the days when the SEVENTH ANGEL IS ABOUT TO SOUND HIS TRUMPET [the seventh and last], the mystery of God [mentioned by Paul in 1 Cor. 15:51] will be accomplished" On which day will the last trumpet sound and the rapture and resurrection occur?


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Revelation 11:15-18: "THE SEVENTH ANGEL SOUNDED HIS TRUMPET [the last one]...The nations were angry; and your [God’s] wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints...and for destroying those who destroy the earth." At which trumpet sound and on which day will the Judgment of God and the rewarding of the saints be?


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CREDIT: THE PRE-TRIBULATION RAPTURE HOAX
​

 

[Strangelove]

Our hope is based on the evidence and trustworthiness of the scriptures that produce in us the substance of faith.

Ok lets see you take a pop at the scriptures Red.

Try the above post.

 

[unclefester]

For some your post may be compelling, but not to me for there is no compromise nor is there any 'we agree to disagree'. That is foolishness and Christ does not have to come to confirm what the scriptures teach. Do you hope that the way of salvation that you believed and have trusted God for, is the right salvation through His Son, or is another way possible? Does Christ have to come back again to confirm that He judged and paid for sin through His death and the shedding of His blood the first time He came? NO! We don't compromise salvation for it is by grace through faith because of the cross, nor do we compromise the doctrine and mystery of Christ and the church.

Our hope is based on the evidence and trustworthiness of the scriptures that produce in us the substance of faith. The inspiration of truth in scripture is not given as a divided truth to be believed with our own understanding that results in double-mindedness, but has been given to promote and give believers one faith and one hope of our calling. There is no compromise in that, only oneness as likeminded believers that believe in one salvation and one Lord who gives it, to one one body of Christ made of many members, who have the same Spirit.

1Cor 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

I'm not biting Red. Do with it what you will. And by "no compromise", what you really mean is "no other doctrinal belief but yours". Honestly Red ...... I'm not fazed or upset by it. I've got a sign posted to my forehead that says......No Vacancy

 

[eternally-gratefull]

first I don't understand what you think the disciples are asking about when they say "when will this happen?" if it is not referring to the destruction of the temple that Jesus was talking about in verses 1 and 2.

When will "this" happen is a wrong interpretation. It is not a singular noun, the greek word is the plural/neuter form of the greek word outos, which means this. The plural form of this would be "these" The destruction of the temple is just one thing. yet they asked about "things". It is obvious from the plural use and the fact Jesus answers them by referencing daniel 9. that when the disciples heard him mentions the destruction of the sanctuary. they remembered daniel 9. and asked him when "these things" or the things spoken of in daniel 9 would occur. It is also obvious that they put daniel 9 and the coming messiah together. Considering they asked what are the signs of his coming back. It is obvious they understood the prophesy which said the messiah will be cut off after 69 weeks. and then things must happen in between the time he is "cut off" and the time he returns. Thy were starting to get it. but they still had many questions and did not understand it yet. They would not really understand it in full until Christ arose from the dead.

but part is our different understanding of Daniel 9...

I agree. this is what totally separates a pre verses an a millennialist.

Daniel does NOT say the Future prince, but the PEOPLE of the future prince. there is a big difference. let us look at the key verse

Yes the people of the future prince who is to come will Destroy the sanctuary.

Daniel 9
26 “ And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; (Jesus cruxified)
And the people of the prince who is to come (romans and antichrist people)
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. (destruction of temple 70 AD)

Agree. Who destroyed the temple? Rome. Which means the "prince which is to come" will somehow come from the roman people

The end of it shall be with a flood, (do you remember the verses in Revelation where Satan floods the woman and her children who have the testimony of Christ?)

I am not sure where you are going with this? Rev speaks of the serpant which spews a flood to flood the woman who gave birth to Christ. Yet is says the earth swallowed up the flood and the woman was saved. I do not see how we could get this to happen in AD 70. no one was spared. Israel was destroyed, and all the people were taken captive or killed.

second, The church did not give birth to Christ. Christ gave birth to the church. So The church can not be the women

And till the end of the war desolations are determined. (this would be Ammageddon)but the statement says the END of the War is determined meaning finding out who will win, this happened when Jesus defeated all powers and principalities at the cross

This is a good speculation. But I can not agree. War and destruction is still going on today, the wars and total destructions have not ended, in fact in revelations we are told of two great wars. so this has not yet been fulfilled. The prophesy of daniel is not talking about spiritual wars, and even if he is these wars are not over, Scripture says plainly our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers. we are still at war with satan

27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; who is the HE?can God make more then one covenant? can He make it conditional?

"he" is not Christ. The prince who is to come comes out of the people who destroys the temple. He would come from the people of rome. I believe he is the final prince of the roman empire, or the little horn who comes out of the last gentile power spoken of in daniel. Since "he" can not be christ. It can not be talking about a covanant made by God. Plus this covenant is said to be one week (7 years) in length. when has God ever made a 7 year covenant?.

But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. Did not Jesus bring an end to sacrifice by giving HIS life as the only sacrifice needed?

Does not make sense. Nor does it fit the timeline.

The temple is destroyed first. Then the flood, then the end of wars and destructions. Then the covenant which last for one week. Then in the middle of THIS WEEK the end of sacrifice and ofering takes place. Christ dies long before any of these things take place.

And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, sounds like the Whore Babylon

Sounds like it, I can agree with this. But I don't agree that it is the whore. This is a person (the prince) who commits abomination by desolating the holy of holies. The whore does not do this. the prince does.

Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”

This speaks of the consumation of Gods wrath poured out on the desolate. Who are the desolate?

why do I think the verses "on the wings of abominations" means Babylon?

well it fits with these verses:

Zechariah 5

5 Then the angel who talked with me came out and said to me, “Lift your eyes now, and see what this is that goes forth.”
6 So I asked, “What is it?” And he said, “It is a basket[a] that is going forth.”
He also said, “This is their resemblance throughout the earth: 7 Here is a lead disc lifted up, and this is a woman sitting inside the basket”; 8 then he said, “This is Wickedness!” And he thrust her down into the basket, and threw the lead cover over its mouth. 9 Then I raised my eyes and looked, and there were two women, coming with the wind in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork, and they lifted up the basket between earth and heaven.
10 So I said to the angel who talked with me, “Where are they carrying the basket?”
11 And he said to me, “To build a house for it in the land of Shinar;[c] when it is ready, the basket will be set there on its base.”

shinar is another name for Babylon and the verses before talks about the curse upon the world, which would be desolate, as the world consummates their affair with the Whore.

This does not make sense. The desolation happens in the temple. Not in the world. Sacrifice and offering takes place in the temple. One would make an end of this sacrifice by desoating the tmeple. As Antiochus epiphanies did when he sacrificed a pig (considered unclean to all jews) in the holie of holies. This would be an abvomination.

As I have said before. Daniel was praying for his people. WHo had sinned against God. and because of their sin was taken by babylon according to the prophesy of Jeremiah. This captivitie was to be 70 years. The 70 years was almost up. Daniel knew it. And he also knew his people were still in sin, and had not repented, He was making a mediatory prayer for God concerning his people. How people can make this prophesy to be concerning the world. and the church and not Daniels blood people (Israel) is beyond me

Daniel 9

4 And I prayed to the LORD my God, and made confession, and said, “O Lord, great and awesome God, who keeps His covenant and mercy with those who love Him, and with those who keep His commandments, 5 we have sinned and committed iniquity, we have done wickedly and rebelled, even by departing from Your precepts and Your judgments. 6 Neither have we heeded Your servants the prophets, who spoke in Your name to our kings and our princes, to our fathers and all the people of the land. 7 O Lord, righteousness belongs to You, but to us shame of face, as it is this day—to the men of Judah, to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, those near and those far off in all the countries to which You have driven them, because of the unfaithfulness which they have committed against You.

This is the "WHO" Daniel was praying for. We shoul not twist this and make it mean the churhc or the world. Daniel was praying for HIS PEOPLE. No one else.

Gabriels answer was concerning this prayer. Which means gabriels answer was concerning Daniels people. no one else.

 

[Strangelove]

I do not see how we could get this to happen in AD 70. no one was spared. Israel was destroyed, and all the people were taken captive or killed..

Escapes from Jerusalem AD 66-70 in Josephus​

• [c. November 66] After this calamity had befallen Cestius, many of the most eminent of the Jews swam away from the city... Jewish War 2:20:1
  
• [c. Winter 67/68 before Passover] "The Idumeans complied with these persuasions; and, in the first place, they set those that were in the prisons at liberty, being about two thousand of the populace, who thereupon fled away immediately to Simon" Jewish War 4:6:1
  "These things were told Vespasian by deserters; for although the seditious watched all the passages out of the city, and destroyed all, whosoever they were, that came thither, yet were there some that had concealed themselves, and when they had fled to the Romans, ... Vespasian did indeed already pity the calamities these men were in... " Jewish War : 4:7:3
  
• [c. June 70] "As Josephus was speaking thus with a loud voice, the seditious would neither yield to what he said, nor did they deem it safe for them to alter their conduct; but as for the people, they had a great inclination to desert to the Romans; accordingly, some of them sold what they had, and even the most precious things that had been laid up as treasures by them, for every small matter, and swallowed down pieces of gold, that they might not be found out by the robbers; and when they had escaped to the Romans, went to stool, and had wherewithal to provide plentifully for themselves; for Titus let a great number of them go away into the country, whither they pleased." Jewish War 5:10:1
  
  Hereupon some of the deserters, having no other way, leaped down from the wall immediately, while others of them went out of the city with stones, as if they would fight them; but thereupon they fled away to the Romans. But here a worse fate accompanied these than what they had found within the city; and they met with a quicker dispatch from the too great abundance they had among the Romans, than they could have done from the famine among the Jews; for when they came first to the Romans, they were puffed up by the famine, and swelled like men in a dropsy; after which they all on the sudden overfilled those bodies that were before empty, and so burst asunder, excepting such only as were skillful enough to restrain their appetites, and by degrees took in their food into bodies unaccustomed thereto. " Jewish War 5:13:4
  
• [August 70 CE] "As Josephus spoke these words, with groans and tears in his eyes, his voice was intercepted by sobs. However, the Romans could not but pity the affliction he was under, and wonder at his conduct. But for John, and those that were with him, they were but the more exasperated against the Romans on this account, and were desirous to get Josephus also into their power: yet did that discourse influence a great many of the better sort; and truly some of them were so afraid of the guards set by the seditious, that they tarried where they were, but still were satisfied that both they and the city were doomed to destruction. Some also there were who, watching a proper opportunity when they might quietly get away, fled to the Romans, of whom were the high priests Joseph and Jesus, and of the sons of high priests three, whose father was Ishmael, who was beheaded in Cyrene, and four sons of Matthias, as also one son of the other Matthias, who ran away after his father's death, and whose father was slain by Simon the son of Gioras, with three of his sons, as I have already related; many also of the other nobility went over to the Romans, together with the high priests." Jewish War 6:2:2 (Compiled by Paul N. Tobin)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Good morning EG. I am not now nor ever will I be willing/content to exchange whatever semblance of integrity I might have in the Lord for the sake of any "friendship" with anybody. I will be honest here and say yes ..... there have been a few occasions on this thread where I am of the opinion that Strangelove could have tempered the point he was making in a gentler manner. Having said that, I'd be lying if I said that the same thing isn't true of yourself as well. Furthermore, I myself can be thrown into the mix also, if not on this thread, at least certainly on others. But like all imperfect creatures, we sometimes allow our passion to cloud our better judgement.

Hey bro, Thanks for your kind words.

My point was there are a few here who have absolutely no problem jumping down my throat. And I am sure there are times I deserve it. But for some reason, they do not give the same courtesy by also holding certain others accountable also.

If you have seen me in here. I do not make favorites. I have close friends. and I love them. But if I see them doing something wrong. I have no problem letting them know. One thing I have learned in my 30 some years in the body of Christ is Christians can come across as hypocrites. Nothing hurts God and his mission worst than a hypocrite. One thing I don't want to do is anything that will harm God plan. All one has to do is look at a few people who come in here and see all the hypocritical things going on and how they are turned off by it to know the damage which is done.

So when people rebuke someone who is, or might be doing wrong. then do not do the same to "their friends" when they do the same things. it is hypocrisy. And is wrong. We have seen that in this thread and many other so many times. And it is wrong no matter who is doing it. If I do it. I would expect to get rebuked as a hypocrite myself.

I've avoided this thread for good reason. For many years, I was like most people that adhered to the dispensational teachings and more specifically, the pre-trib rapture. And as much as I'd like to be able to say that it is easy to discern and understand, the simple truth is that it is not. Arguments have been made to substantiate each point of view for centuries ........ and this debate will not go away until Christ does in fact return. I am personally convinced of the amillennialist position. And this I also believe ...... those not prepared to give up all, including their very life for the sake of their faith in Christ are those who would forsake it under severe tribulation. This I am also sure of. We are getting close to the return of Christ ..... and there will be only two advents.......with one already occurring. Even though we may not agree on all things biblical, I still consider you, Red and others my brothers in Christ. We all fall short and are in need of God's grace. Let each of us present our case and trust the Holy Spirit to convict where He will. However great our passion, it pales in comparison to what God can and will do. I love you EG.

And here is the sticker my friend.

I agree to disagree. Love discussing this. When you discuss, You give your point of view. And I counter with my point of view. Maybe we can learn from each others points of view. maybe our points will not cause the others to change their mind. No matter what happens mature christians will "agree to disagree" They will not "make war" with someone who does not agree. They will not go to other threads and attack someone when the thread has nothing to do with the discussion (like strangelove did me in the EO Thread) they will not say, I will follow you wherever you go and attack you there. I mean how can we call ourselves christians, and be a light in the world if we are hypocrites. we attack others in everything they say just because we disagree on a subject or two? This type of behavior is from satan, Not God.

If I ever do this. I hope you rebuke me for this. As I am sure you would as a brother. But why is it no one is rebuking others who do this. It boggles my mind to say the least.

I love you also brother. It does not matter if we disagree on this issue. I think no less of your or anyone else. This is a non salvic issue. And should not cvause us to hate on our brothers and sisters in Christ.

I just wish everyone felt this way

 

[eternally-gratefull]

For some your post may be compelling, but not to me for there is no compromise nor is there any 'we agree to disagree'. That is foolishness and Christ does not have to come to confirm what the scriptures teach. Do you hope that the way of salvation that you believed and have trusted God for, is the right salvation through His Son, or is another way possible? Does Christ have to come back again to confirm that He judged and paid for sin through His death and the shedding of His blood the first time He came? NO! We don't compromise salvation for it is by grace through faith because of the cross, nor do we compromise the doctrine and mystery of Christ and the church.

Our hope is based on the evidence and trustworthiness of the scriptures that produce in us the substance of faith. The inspiration of truth in scripture is not given as a divided truth to be believed with our own understanding that results in double-mindedness, but has been given to promote and give believers one faith and one hope of our calling. There is no compromise in that, only oneness as likeminded believers that believe in one salvation and one Lord who gives it, to one one body of Christ made of many members, who have the same Spirit.

1Cor 1:10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Thats funny. You should re-read romans 8 where their was a huge disagreement between people who believed one could eat meat. and one should never eat meat. And what day the sabaath was. Paul did not tell them to agree on everything. or they were not christian. He said they should respect the others position as long as their position is done with God in mind.

They were joined of the same mind. The thing that made them one in mind was the gospel of Christ. Not non salvic issues suchj as what day is the sabaath, What we should eat. or any other non salvic doctrine.

 

[Strangelove]

They will not go to other threads and attack someone when the thread has nothing to do with the discussion (like strangelove did me in the EO Thread) they will not say, I will follow you wherever you go and attack you there.

What are you on about man?

Where did I attack you?

I noticed contradictions in your theology and I pointed them out....thats all. Its not personal.

And yes I will follow you around the threads and look for opportunities where I can expose your errors.

Is that ok?

Sheesh.

Attacks?

 

[Red33]

Thats funny. You should re-read romans 8 where their was a huge disagreement between people who believed one could eat meat. and one should never eat meat. And what day the sabaath was. Paul did not tell them to agree on everything. or they were not christian. He said they should respect the others position as long as their position is done with God in mind.

They were joined of the same mind. The thing that made them one in mind was the gospel of Christ. Not non salvic issues suchj as what day is the sabaath, What we should eat. or any other non salvic doctrine.

Are you prepared to say that the mystery of Christ and the church, all doctrine that relates to Christ and the church as a living organism and body politic and the redemption that each believer has that makes up that body are non-salvific doctrines of the faith that do not matter? Do you believe that any doctrine of Christ that brings division instead of one faith is the will of God in the body of Christ? It is a good and respectful thing to have some believe in the pre-trib rapture of the church and others in the doctrine of amillennialism? Can you not see the fruit of that division? Would not others and those in unbelief see that as division and reject the very one we trust and profess to believe in? Is Christ divided on any doctrine of the faith (1Cor 1:10,13, 3:3)?

Should we be divided on the doctrine of the resurrections or the judgments and then profess the same Christ who is the author of every doctrine we have in scripture and in Him through the Holy Spirit? Does the same Spirit that we have reveal doctrine in one believer and contradict that doctrine in another? How could there ever be oneness in the body of Christ among its members as there is between the Father and the Son? Is it not the purpose of Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit to make us one in Christ (Jn 17:21) and are we not to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace with one faith (Eph 4:3-6)?

 

[Strangelove]

Oh my goodness....can we stick to the TOPIC please?

Red how about post #342?

 

[Red33]

Ok lets see you take a pop at the scriptures Red.

Try the above post.

You obviously need to be reminded, I have written you off with cause that I have already defined, so you can stop asking me to participate in any of your discussions. For the sake of others that read your posts, take heed as you can discern for yourself, Strangelove is a troublemaker that causes strife and contention and should be avoided. That's should be clear and definitive.

 

[BlueLagoon]

Are you prepared to say that the mystery of Christ and the church, all doctrine that relates to Christ and the church as a living organism and body politic and the redemption that each believer has that makes up that body are non-salvific doctrines of the faith that do not matter? Do you believe that any doctrine of Christ that brings division instead of one faith is the will of God in the body of Christ? It is a good and respectful thing to have some believe in the pre-trib rapture of the church and others in the doctrine of amillennialism? Can you not see the fruit of that division? Would not others and those in unbelief see that as division and reject the very one we trust and profess to believe in? Is Christ divided on any doctrine of the faith (1Cor 1:10,13, 3:3)?

Should we be divided on the doctrine of the resurrections or the judgments and then profess the same Christ who is the author of every doctrine we have in scripture and in Him through the Holy Spirit? Does the same Spirit that we have reveal doctrine in one believer and contradict that doctrine in another? How could there ever be oneness in the body of Christ among its members as there is between the Father and the Son? Is it not the purpose of Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit to make us one in Christ (Jn 17:21) and are we not to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace with one faith (Eph 4:3-6)?

I dont think there will ever be unity in the body of Christ as far as the topic of eschatology is concerned. Amillenialism is just one of the many. There should be no division but there is. The problem lies in interpretation. Period.

 

[BlueLagoon]

Ok lets see you take a pop at the scriptures Red.

Try the above post.

How long have you been saved?

 

[Red33]

I'm not biting Red. Do with it what you will. And by "no compromise", what you really mean is "no other doctrinal belief but yours". Honestly Red ...... I'm not fazed or upset by it. I've got a sign posted to my forehead that says......No Vacancy

You can eat and digest whatever doctrine you want for it will digest in your own stomach. We have a mandate to also follow the apostles' doctrine that has been laid out in the epistles (and the book of Revelation) that was written to the many churches and members of the body of Christ for the entire church age that will end at the rapture of the church just prior to the great tribulation coming upon the earth. Then when the great tribulation period starts all bets are off because the church will be out of here, sealed and delivered. You can put that in one of your vacancy slots.

 

[Red33]

I dont think there will ever be unity in the body of Christ as far as the topic of eschatology is concerned. Amillenialism is just one of the many. There should be no division but there is. The problem lies in interpretation. Period.

It does lie in interpretation but this we always have to consider, it is impossible for God to lie and the scripture is of no private interpretation and the same one that gave it by inspiration is the same one that reveals it to our hearts if WE ARE meek and lowly and learn of Him. That is where the trouble lies. If we are meek and lowly in heart, when we hear the truth of God's word being spoken, the Spirit in us will witness the truth that we are hearing and we hide that word in our heart and let it dwell richly. The Spirit will not witness the truth in one believer and witness contrary in another believer. There is onlt one Spirit. If this happened it would not be the same Spirit revealing one faith in one body. The Spirit is not going to reveal the doctrine of justification in one assembly to be thus and thus and reveal it contrary in another assembly. That would be promoting division and not the same mind that was in Christ Jesus.

 

[unclefester]

You can eat and digest whatever doctrine you want for it will digest in your own stomach. We have a mandate to also follow the apostles' doctrine that has been laid out in the epistles (and the book of Revelation) that was written to the many churches and members of the body of Christ for the entire church age that will end at the rapture of the church just prior to the great tribulation coming upon the earth. Then when the great tribulation period starts all bets are off because the church will be out of here, sealed and delivered. You can put that in one of your vacancy slots.

Grow up Red. Your temper tantrum over this eschatology stuff grows tiresome. The truth of the matter is, I wouldn't mind you being right about it all whatsoever. It'd sure save me and a few others here a ton of trouble. Would one be allowed to believe as you do concerning eschatology without believing in today's tongues ....... and modern day prophets and apostles as well ....... or is it a "package deal" (and no, I'm not asking for me)? This grace and meekness you speak of ....... what'd you do with it ?

 

[Strangelove]

How long have you been saved?

Since before the foundations of the world.

 

[Strangelove]

You obviously need to be reminded, I have written you off with cause that I have already defined, so you can stop asking me to participate in any of your discussions. For the sake of others that read your posts, take heed as you can discern for yourself, Strangelove is a troublemaker that causes strife and contention and should be avoided. That's should be clear and definitive.

(Matthew 10:34) Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

(Matthew 10:35) For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

(Matthew 10:36) And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

 

[BlueLagoon]

Since before the foundations of the world.

Huh??
Every true believer had a beginning of being born again. We are born again by believing in Christ. And by Repentence. God is near the brokenhearted and saves those who have a contrite spirit.