And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

[HeIsHere]

Forgive my laziness in retrieving examples, especially in caution that opposition may not agree even for the extra effort but, there is scripture speaking to something like, paraphrasing of course, 'you will look for the wicked, and his place will not be found." It may even say, "there's no place for him,' which would be more supportive of my position, but again, I'm going only by the memory of how I've read it.

For evil men will be cut off, but those who hope in the LORD will inherit the land. A little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found. But the meek will inherit the land and enjoy great peace.


This is destruction in the present world not the world here after.

 

[Mem]

Maybe it just hasn't occurred to you, but your paraphrased phrase easily refers to the fact that a dead person is no longer 'hanging around', like living people are.

What do you think "his place" refers to? It would be his place in society, where he was while living. So your verse doesn't support annihilation at all.

You're reading only with torturous lens, try taking them off even for just a couple of minutes.

 

[Mem]

For evil men will be cut off, but those who hope in the LORD will inherit the land. A little while, and the wicked will be no more; though you look for them, they will not be found. But the meek will inherit the land and enjoy great peace.


This is destruction in the present world not the world here after.

yet, 'will be' expressed in future terms. Again, try taking off the torturous lenses just even for a little while.

 

[HeIsHere]

Look at the interlinear please.

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/luke/5-37.htm

Very last word = apollumi, is destroyed.

Luke 17:27: "flood came, and annihilated them all." Destroyed all.

I am not going to go through each one. They say destroyed. What is your point?

Destroyed does not speak to the nature of the destruction, annihilation does, they are not interchangeable.

Annihilate means to cease to exist.

 

[Runningman]

The LOF is the second death for unbelievers. Their bodies will die twice. Very clear, very simple. All Bible.

Nah you got that all wrong.

The unsaved are already spiritually dead, the lake of fire will destroy their resurrected bodies, and God said the soul that sins shall die. All Bible.

You’re saying they won’t die. You believe that in some sense a part of the unsaved person will live forever. The Bible is quite clear that only those with faith in Christ lives forever in any way shape or form.

So why do you insist that all unsaved people will be tormented forever when the Bible doesn’t even say that?

Did you know that the word punishment in Matt 25:46 is a singular noun? The punishment is one thing which is death. The word you desperately (but will never get it) need it to be is “punishing” which is an adjective that would describe their everlasting state.

The Bible disagrees with you, logic disagrees with you, English grammar disagrees with you. You have nothing.

 

[HeIsHere]

yet, 'will be' expressed in future terms. Again, try taking off the torturous lenses just even for a little while.

LOL, too funny, annihilate is the the torturous lens, a concept not found in the ancient Hebrew.

 

[Mem]

LOL, too funny, annihilate is the the torturous lens, a concept not found in the ancient Hebrew.

You won't find Hell, as western religion espouses it, there.

 

[HeIsHere]

You won't find Hell, as western religion espouses it, there.

Read my posts, I agree, but I am not going to change the meaning of words to build a doctrine that is not biblical either.

It is important we get this right not go off substituting one false doctrine for another.

It is hard work to really study it out and I still have a lot of questions but diligence and an open mind do pay off.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You're reading only with torturous lens, try taking them off even for just a couple of minutes.

Oh, I see that now. Thanks for your perspicacity and thoughtfulness.

 

[FreeGrace2]

yet, 'will be' expressed in future terms. Again, try taking off the torturous lenses just even for a little while.

It's the soul annihilators who are the ones squinting tightly.

 

[Magenta]

Destroyed does not speak to the nature of the destruction, annihilation does, they are not interchangeable.

Can you give a verse that articulates this? God contrasts life with death.

He did not warn Adam and Eve, do not do this or I will torment you forever after.

Death was/is given as the wages of sin from the beginning of the Bible to the end.

In a multitude of verses, expressed a number of ways. To call it an unBiblical idea exposes willful blindness.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
The LOF is the second death for unbelievers. Their bodies will die twice. Very clear, very simple. All Bible.

Nah you got that all wrong.

Yeah. Tell that to God. I read it in His Word. Take it up with Him.

The unsaved are already spiritually dead, the lake of fire will destroy their resurrected bodies, and God said the soul that sins shall die. All Bible.

When the Bible says "the soul that sins shall die", it is speaking of the person who sins. It is the sin nature, inherited from Adam that sins. That's why believers lose their bodies at death. God doesn't allow sinful flesh to enter heaven. But He will change all that when Christ returns to earth as King.

You’re saying they won’t die. You believe that in some sense a part of the unsaved person will live forever.

The soul that will be punished eternally. Very simple indeed.

The Bible is quite clear that only those with faith in Christ lives forever in any way shape or form.

Now many times must you be reminded that existence in the LOF won't be LIFE, but DEATH. An eternity of DEATH. Not so hard to believe. Oh right. You've brought your emotions into the discussion and just can't conceive that God would torment someone for eternity. Oh, but He will.

So why do you insist that all unsaved people will be tormented forever when the Bible doesn’t even say that?

/QUOTE]
What foreign translation are you trying to read??

Maybe you could, you know, with all that communication gifting and all, translate both Matt 25:46 and Rev 20:10 CORRECTLY as God has given you your special understanding. Just so us commoners can follow your claims with real words.

As it is, what I READ in the translations (not just one) is that there will be a punishment that is eternal, and a torment that will last day and night for ever and ever.

So help me out here.

Did you know that the word punishment in Matt 25:46 is a singular noun? The punishment is one thing which is death.

So what? Pain is a singular noun too. When something hurts you, does the pain just last for a moment, or what?

The word you desperately (but will never get it) need it to be is “punishing” which is an adjective that would describe their everlasting state.

Wow. Are we agreeing here or something?? Of course their punishment will be an everlasting state. Amen.

The Bible disagrees with you, logic disagrees with you, English grammar disagrees with you. You have nothing.

When will you be trying to prove all this? The Bible, logic, EVEN grammar??? Can't wait for correction. Thanks.

 

[Magenta]

The LOF is the second death for unbelievers. Their bodies will die twice. Very clear, very simple. All Bible.

God said the soul that sins shall die. Body and soul dead, what is left? LOL

 

[HeIsHere]

Can you give a verse that articulates this? God contrasts life with death.

He did not warn Adam and Eve, do not do this or I will torment you forever after.

Death was/is given as the wages of sin from the beginning of the Bible to the end.

In a multitude of verses, expressed a number of ways. Calling it an unBiblical idea exposes willful blindness.

You are going in different direction, are we taking about "death" now or are still on "perish" and "destroy."

"Calling it an unBiblical idea exposes willful blindness"

Getting a wee bit personal here, I don't think you are willfully blind.

Yes the sole concept I am speaking to, of God extinguishing/making extinct/nullifying/annihilating life is not found.

 

[Magenta]

You are going in different direction, are we taking about "death" now or are still on "perish" and "destroy."

"Calling it an unBiblical idea exposes willful blindness"

Getting a wee bit personal here, I don't think you are willfully blind.

Yes the sole concept I am speaking to, of God extinguishing/making extinct/nullifying/annihilating life is not found.

I was not saying that about you necessarily. But that very argument -that the final end of the unredeemed
is not death and has no Biblical basis - has been advanced as if it has merit when in fact it has none.
Death is plainly spoken of repeatedly as the end for those without Christ. All life is within Him.

Perish and destroy describe death, or the means of bringing about death.

Those without life are dead. Body and soul are destroyed. What is left? Nothing.

I don't see it as changing directions. Not sure how you do.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
The LOF is the second death for unbelievers. Their bodies will die twice. Very clear, very simple. All Bible.

God said the soul that sins shall die. Body and soul dead, what is left? LOL

I'll bet you forgot to check the context before you posted.

Here is the full context, from Ezekiel 18-
1 The word of the LORD came to me:
2 “What do you people mean by quoting this proverb about the land of Israel: “ ‘The parents eat sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge’?
3 “As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, you will no longer quote this proverb in Israel.
4 For everyone belongs to me, the parent as well as the child—both alike belong to me. The one who sins is the one who will die.

The NIV uses "the ONE", as in "the person". So, you see, it isn't referring to the immaterial part of man at all. It is referring to the person who will die. We call that "capital punishment". The context is obvious.

If there was a verse that says "the body, and the soul shall die..." you would have a point.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I was not saying that about you necessarily. But that very argument -that the final end of the unredeemed is not death - has been advanced as if it has merit when in fact it has
none. Death is plainly spoken of as the end for those without Christ. All life is within Him.

How easy it is to simply understand that 'death' refers to a body. And 'soul' refers to the person or individual when speaking of death.

Those without life are dead. Body and soul are destroyed. What is left? Nothing.

This is presumption. Again, you are mixing physical death of body, which IS destroyed, with soul eternal punishment or torment.

 

[HeIsHere]

I was not saying that about you necessarily. But that very argument -that the final end
of the unredeemed is not death - has been advanced as if it has merit when in fact it has
none. Death is plainly spoken of as the end for those without Christ. All life is within Him.

Perish and destroy describe death, or the means of bringing about death.

Those without life are dead. Body and soul are destroyed. What is left? Nothing.

I don't see it as changing directions. Not sure how you do.

Okay, I need to think on this, because "death" again is a word where the meaning is determined by the larger context.

 

[Jackson123]

I’m saying they’ll be punished with death. So they aren’t put to death? are you suggesting the unsaved in hell will live forever?

you interchange the Word

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

where the “word death” in this verse?

they(unbeliever) go into eternal punishment tha is in that verse

 

[Jackson123]

A death penalty is a punishment that lasts forever. The Bible plainly states the date of the unrighteous is death.

Do you agree with these verses?

Matthew 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Ezekiel 18:20
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

To my knowledge there are 2 kind of death

1 physical death, only the body death not the soul
2 spiritually death, separation from God
the body may still alive or may die but no more relationship with God

soul life forever either in hell or heaven

daniel 12:2
2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

shame and everlasting contempt

can the death have shame felling?

destroy soul, still alive but not happy, eternal punishment day and night