And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil

[Lucy-Pevensie]

You talk about me in such disparaging terms but are total unable to prove using scripture that eternal torment of all unsaved is true.

You know good and well if you eternal tormentors had proof you would be flaunting it around everywhere. Instead there’s like two verses that don’t even claim what others are claiming they say.

That being the because, doesn’t that most of the church is wrong on this particular point? Yes. I’m here to turn the church right side up.

I don't think I was disparaging.
I told you what you don't want to hear, that is all. There is more than one component in your argument.
One is not scriptural, but an attempt to normalise annihilationism.


Eternal means eternal. Jesus uses it twice in the same sentence. It can't be any clearer.
If there is no ETERNAL punishment, then there is no ETERNAL life either.

Punishment is punishment, not an end of all perception of being.


New International Version
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

English Standard Version
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Berean Study Bible
And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Berean Literal Bible
And these will go away into eternal punishment; but the righteous into eternal life."

King James Bible
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

New King James Version
And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

New American Standard Bible
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Christian Standard Bible
“And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

 

[Runningman]

you interchange the Word

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

where the “word death” in this verse?

they(unbeliever) go into eternal punishment tha is in that verse

what. Where did I alter the words of the Bible? What the Bible says and my words are two different things.

I believe the eternal punishment is death. What do you believe the eternal punishment is?

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Forgive my laziness in retrieving examples, especially in caution that opposition may not agree even for the extra effort but, there is scripture speaking to something like, paraphrasing of course, 'you will look for the wicked, and his place will not be found." It may even say, "there's no place for him,' which would be more supportive of my position, but again, I'm going only by the memory of how I've read it.

Is it this one? I may be way off, but this is the verse that came to mind immediately.

Isaiah 41

12 Though you search for your enemies,
you will not find them.
Those who wage war against you
will be as nothing at all.
13 For I am the Lord your God
who takes hold of your right hand
and says to you, Do not fear;
I will help you.

 

[Jackson123]

what. Where did I alter the words of the Bible? What the Bible says and my words are two different things.

I believe the eternal punishment is death. What do you believe the eternal punishment is?

Eternal punishment is being torment eternally
death in the sense no relationship with God but the soul never die, they life forever in hell or for some in heaven

i talk to drug user, don’t you afraid of hell?
he said I am in hell, one of them kill himself
i think because he think he is in hell and to escape from hell he better kill himself

that the danger of wrong and unbiblical doctrine

 

[Runningman]

To my knowledge there are 2 kind of death

1 physical death, only the body death not the soul
2 spiritually death, separation from God
the body may still alive or may die but no more relationship with God

soul life forever either in hell or heaven

daniel 12:2
2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

shame and everlasting contempt

can the death have shame felling?

destroy soul, still alive but not happy, eternal punishment day and night

You think those who disobey the gospel will inherit eternal life? That’s not true. Only those with faith in Christ will live forever.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Just so you know, the word perish means destroy fully. What about being fully destroyed means they’ll be anything left to punish? If there is something left alive after something perishes then it didn’t perish.

Regarding Daniel 12:2, that’s simply the shame and contempt the righteous will feel on account of the unsaved. Isaiah 66:24 proves it:

Isaiah 66:24
‘And they shall go out and look at the corpses of the people who have rebelled against me, for their worm shall not die, and their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."

Do you see that the unsaved who have died are the the ones causing others to few contempt?

 

[Jackson123]

Is it this one? I may be way off, but this is the verse that came to mind immediately.

Isaiah 41

12 Though you search for your enemies,
you will not find them.
Those who wage war against you
will be as nothing at all.
13 For I am the Lord your God
who takes hold of your right hand
and says to you, Do not fear;
I will help you.

That talking physically circumstance

physically live human can find physically death human
physically death buried in cemetery

 

[Jackson123]

You think those who disobey the gospel will inherit eternal life? That’s not true. Only those with faith in Christ will live forever.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Just so you know, the word perish means destroy fully. What about being fully destroyed means they’ll be anything left to punish? If there is something left alive after something perishes then it didn’t perish.

Regarding Daniel 12:2, that’s simply the shame and contempt the righteous will feel on account of the unsaved. Isaiah 66:24 proves it:

Isaiah 66:24
‘And they shall go out and look at the corpses of the people who have rebelled against me, for their worm shall not die, and their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."

Do you see that the unsaved who have died are the the ones causing others to few contempt?

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

see the word “eternal punishment” in this verse

you say no body able to punish the perish

what is that mean, why Jesus eternally punish the unsaved

because their soul never die

 

[Runningman]

I don't think I was disparaging.
I told you what you don't want to hear, that is all. There is more than one component in your argument.
One is not scriptural, but an attempt to normalise annihilationism.

I don’t think so. You see me as a challenger trying to turn the church upside down which is not what I am doing. So just because you hold that perspective doesn’t make it so.

Eternal means eternal. Jesus uses it twice in the same sentence. It can't be any clearer.
If there is no ETERNAL punishment, then there is no ETERNAL life either.

I believe you’re assuming that the eternal punishment is some kind of eternal torment. That isn’t what the Bible says though. Have you seen the two dozen verses that say the fate of the wicked is death or destruction?

I think what you really need are just verses that prove what you’re saying is true. Where in the Bible does it say all unsaved people go to hell and are tormented forever?

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

You think those who disobey the gospel will inherit eternal life? That’s not true. Only those with faith in Christ will live forever.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Just so you know, the word perish means destroy fully. What about being fully destroyed means they’ll be anything left to punish? If there is something left alive after something perishes then it didn’t perish.

Regarding Daniel 12:2, that’s simply the shame and contempt the righteous will feel on account of the unsaved. Isaiah 66:24 proves it:

Isaiah 66:24
‘And they shall go out and look at the corpses of the people who have rebelled against me, for their worm shall not die, and their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."

Do you see that the unsaved who have died are the the ones causing others to few contempt?

Stop twisting people's words.
No one is claiming that eternal torment = eternal life.

 

[Runningman]

because their soul never die

That’s false. The death of the soul of the unsaved is an orthodox Christian doctrine.

Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.

So yes the eternal punishment is certainly death.

 

[Runningman]

Eternal punishment is being torment eternally
death in the sense no relationship with God but the soul never die, they life forever in hell or for some in heaven

i talk to drug user, don’t you afraid of hell?
he said I am in hell, one of them kill himself
i think because he think he is in hell and to escape from hell he better kill himself

that the danger of wrong and unbiblical doctrine

You just said they live forever in hell. Please explain how someone is living forever in hell when Jesus said only those who believe in Him will live forever?

Just quote any verse that says they’ll live forever hell.

 

[Runningman]

Stop twisting people's words.
No one is claiming that eternal torment = eternal life.

“soul life forever either in hell or heaven”

His said life forever in one of two places. Maybe you should have read his comment before rushing in to accuse me of something I’m not doing.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Stop twisting people's words.
No one is claiming that eternal torment = eternal life.

It's the only way he can keep his charade going. By trying to equate words that aren't equated. He doesn't want to get it.

 

[Runningman]

It's the only way he can keep his charade going. By trying to equate words that aren't equated. He doesn't want to get it.

More false accusers come. He actually did say they live forever.

“soul life forever either in hell or heaven”

This isn’t a charade. This is you stalling and creating a distraction. How about you man up and prove what you’re trying to say if you think I’m twisting words.

 

[Jackson123]

You just said they live forever in hell. Please explain how someone is living forever in hell when Jesus said only those who believe in Him will live forever?

Just quote any verse that says they’ll live forever hell.

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

eternal punishment

if death mean become nothing how you punish nothing

 

[Runningman]

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

eternal punishment

if death mean become nothing how you punish nothing

Death is a punishment that is eternal. That’s the only punishment that makes sense.

Word have meaning. I told this to others here, but punishment is a singular noun. The word you would need to prove your point is “punishing” which is an adjective that would describe their eternal state.

After the eternal punishment, which is death, there’s nothing left to punish. They aren’t continually punished forever.

 

[Jackson123]

Definition of punishment

the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense.
"crime demands just punishment"

rough treatment or handling inflicted on or suffered by a person or thing.

what is infliction

cause (something unpleasant or painful) to be suffered by someone or something.
"they inflicted serious injuries on three other men"

how you make unpleasant or painful when you become nothing

that mean soul never die it may go to eternal heaven or eternal hell

 

[FreeGrace2]

Jackson123 said:
because their soul never die

That’s false. The death of the soul of the unsaved is an orthodox Christian doctrine.

When one realizes the range of meaning and usage of the Hebrew and Greek word for "soul" it all makes sense and proves YOU wrong.

Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

psuché: breath, the soul
Original Word: ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: psuché
Phonetic Spelling: (psoo-khay')
Definition: breath, the soul
Usage: (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.

Ezekiel 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.

nephesh: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion
Original Word: נֶפֶשׁ
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: nephesh
Phonetic Spelling: (neh'-fesh)
Definition: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion

So, again, when we read verses about death of the soul, it refers to the death of the human person, the individual.

What you haven't shown are any verses that specifically speak of death of soul AND body in the same breath. That would give you a point.

 

[Jackson123]

Death is a punishment that is eternal. That’s the only punishment that makes sense.

Word have meaning. I told this to others here, but punishment is a singular noun. The word you would need to prove your point is “punishing” which is an adjective that would describe their eternal state.

After the eternal punishment, which is death, there’s nothing left to punish. They aren’t continually punished forever.

your last sentence “ the6 aren’t continually punished is against

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

cause (something unpleasant or painful) to be suffered by someone or something.
"they inflicted serious injuries on three other men"

 

[Runningman]

Definition of punishment

the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense.
"crime demands just punishment"

rough treatment or handling inflicted on or suffered by a person or thing.

what is infliction

cause (something unpleasant or painful) to be suffered by someone or something.
"they inflicted serious injuries on three other men"

how you make unpleasant or painful when you become nothing

that mean soul never die it may go to eternal heaven or eternal hell

So death is a punishment. Thank you.