ANGELS DO NOT HAVE FLESHLY BODIES

[CS1]

Human flesh is human flesh and Angels may appear in human form and they may eat before us but that does not make them human flesh it only makes them greater in might and power.

it seems like some of this angelology with some people today has turned into Angel-Idolatry = angel worship

 

[soberxp]

Interesting, what do you think of the of the following, then about the previously mentioned subjects:

I agree with him.
maybe we have all kinds of understanding of the bible, but only obey god and following Jesus Christ.
what if god forgive everyone for their sin and save them, but i disagree with it,that's not obey god.
what If God wants to punish the wicked, but I don't agree, it's not obey god.
The understanding of The bible should obey god, not a imagine of false god.

 

[CS1]

I agree with him.
maybe we have all kinds of understanding of the bible, but only obey god and following Jesus Christ.
what if god forgive everyone for their sin and save them, but i disagree with it,that's not obey god.
what If God wants to punish the wicked, but I don't agree, it's not obey god.
The understanding of The bible should obey god, not a imagine of false god.

so others are not?

 

[soberxp]

so others are not?

I don't know exactly what you mean。
I don't agree to take the words of the Bible against brothers and sisters，Or judge others , Usually this kind of thing is out of personal intention,not obey god and following Jesus Christ, but the understanding of the Bible May different for everyone, i can't say agree or disagree.

 

[soberxp]

I mean what I can say that is share my understanding of The bible with bro and sis.
It's not easy to say I agree or disagree with someone.

 

[soberxp]

The understanding of the Bible is different, we can start a debate party. As Paul said.

maybe your understanding is better than mine, and then I adopt it. Maybe you approve my understanding and also adopt it. But you have new ideas about your own understanding

 

[MyrtleTrees]

The term "Son of God" doesn't apply to evil angels as you claim, I'm waiting for your scripture to support your claim.

You may be right! Matthew Henry's commentary suggests such too, now that I finally got around to looking at it. So now, looking at the passage again, I guess the Sons of God here spoken of - may refer as you say to angels that came with God to talk with Job. And so it was the devil alone, who was there too - who asked God to allow him to send all those disasters upon Job.

I know the demons and the devil, originally were angels who lived in heaven, until they turned away from God, after which - God banished them from heaven forever.

 

[MyrtleTrees]

I mean what I can say that is share my understanding of The bible with bro and sis.
It's not easy to say I agree or disagree with someone.

Well, maybe it's not something you can handle well. We're all different in what we can handle well. But there are many who can and should share their views of the Bible, in spite of the fact that some will disagree. The apostles are a good example, and so was Jesus. They did a lot of reasoning with people. But it's important to not argue. And to be kind and courteous to others during such Bible discussions.

 

[MyrtleTrees]

So you take on the authority to give final judgment? Take it up with Jude who thought differently. Jude wrote scripture, and you are?

You made a good point there - it doesn't say he wrote a book!

 

[MyrtleTrees]

I will be stubborn on that one. It must of been a strong delusion or it makes God the liar .It could not be Samuel prophesying. It sets the foundation of necromancy communing with dead workers with familiar spirits .

Rachel's family was guilty of it. She hid the idol images (teraphims) from her father. It was quite common in false Judaism. Same spirit of lies that sought after a queen of heaven.

1 Samuel 28. 6 And when Saul enquired of the Lord, the Lord answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.

We know from other sections that when a lying spirts in conjured up it the spirit of lies come as a legion. many . And is why a face (what form is he?) must first be applied to believe the deception .

When Jesus asked the name of the spirit that dwelt in a man it identified himself as "legion" as many as needed. (Catholicism has 3500 and rising picking up speed introducing new patron saints that men seek after. Like Saul and the witch. .

The witch or wizard represents an abomination. Again it is necessary to have a idol image when seeking the legion . Deceiving one self can have many faces.

We pray the one manner to our unseen Father in heaven . Mathew 6; 9 not the many or legion workers with familiar spirts of mankind. We walk by faith the unseen.

Sola scriptura .all things written the the bible (law and the prophets). .They can cast out the legion

2 Kings 23:24 Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the Lord.

It can also be seen in the series parables in Luke 16 ....: "No man can serve two teaching Masters" . The word of God the true Master. (the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the Lord.) and necromancy. The illusion of communing with the dead. .

Luke 13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. ........(Mammon the things of men).

King James Version (KJV) Luke 16:26 -28 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

In that parable he the mammon man things of men did not hear the word and believe. He was just told that necromancy (patron saints) is not possible, .So again (two witnesses ) If they hear not Moses and the prophets, sola scriptura then neither would they believe if someone arose from the dead . Faith comes from hearing God not seeing God. God is not a man. We can believe as he gives us his faith as it is written. The greater riches of faith that works in the believer. ...the unseen eternal.

King James Version (KJV) Luke 16: 28-31 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Good verses! I hadn't thought of that verse in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man - in which Jesus said the dead can't communicate with humans on earth! Indeed, anything that is evil in origin is strictly forbidden by God - I agree! Well, maybe that was God speaking to Saul, giving him the message that Samuel would have given him, if he'd have done it, himself, directly to Saul. It's clear the message came at least from God, as what was said was godly and also what was predicted did indeed happen.

 

[garee]

Your unwillingness to accept the plain text of Scripture is sad.

I accept the plain text mixing it with faith. Its how we receive the unseen spiritual understanding. You simply literalize the understanding hid in parables

Your unwillingness to mix faith in what is seen and heard , the temporal is sad.

Can we commune with the dead?

 

[Truth7t7]

You may be right! Matthew Henry's commentary suggests such too, now that I finally got around to looking at it. So now, looking at the passage again, I guess the Sons of God here spoken of - may refer as you say to angels that came with God to talk with Job. And so it was the devil alone, who was there too - who asked God to allow him to send all those disasters upon Job.

I know the demons and the devil, originally were angels who lived in heaven, until they turned away from God, after which - God banished them from heaven forever.

The Sons of God in Job were human men not angels

 

[Blik]

I am one who hears prophecy and believes God as he works in me. .

The Bible alone in its entirety is the authority of God.

The prophecy given to Enoch is recorded . saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints etc.

Do you need more than what is recorded? Is their something missing from the gospel .Is the sky the limit just imagine. Where would a person place the assumed missing revelations .In the middle at the end?

It would seem some try to widen the authority of as it is written

Jude. . reveals . Jude 14-15 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

I think the Holy Spirit made his point with the words revealed.

Yes, my mind is open to anything that could lead to better understanding of the Lord. I haven't the tools that you claim to have to know if Jude was right or wrong about Jude and I frankly don't think you have, either. However, I do not close my mind as you have to any possibility that Jude was right, that there is something in Enoch that would help me know my Lord better. I check it by studying the records of the men who decided against Enoch as scripture and found them lacking. I check it with accepted scripture and have found nothing that disagrees with it, so I stay open to the idea that it might be accurate history. So sue me, as the saying goes.

 

[Blik]

I accept the plain text mixing it with faith. Its how we receive the unseen spiritual understanding. You simply literalize the understanding hid in parables

Your unwillingness to mix faith in what is seen and heard , the temporal is sad.

Can we commune with the dead?

The plain text is to be understood as plain history except parables at the same time it is to be understood as speaking of our God who is holy. It speaks to us in words understood at the time they were written. Sometimes it speaks in sayings of the time, like "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" was a saying of the time to denote justice. Frankly, often your interpretations are not accurate.

The Holy Spirit uses what we allow into our minds. If you never put in your mind the ability to read the Holy Spirit could not read scripture for you.

Jews had the same problem you have in interpreting God's commands. They interpreted God's command to not work on the Sabbath, as an example, by giving many rules about what they could do on the Sabbath, some of them wrong.

 

[Scribe]

The Sons of God in Job were human men not angels

I have always understood the sons of god to be human in Gen 6 based on the rule of context (Gen 4:26)

However in Job 1 we would not know for certain whether he was talking about angels or men if it were not for Job 38 which is an additional reference by the same author using the same phrase which almost certainly is intended to be taken as angels rather than men.

4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Now if God is asking Job where he was at the time of creation when He laid the foundations of the earth it seems that His main point is that NO MAN was there. Therefore these sons of God shouting for Joy would be angels as would the morning stars doing the singing, unless he is referring to the creation of the stars when he mentions the morning stars sang together but even then it seems to be a poetic reference to the star representing angelic hosts themselves.

I don't think you can interpret Job 38:7 any other way than something God did in creation BEFORE he created Adam.

Would the same author use the phrase sons of god here as a reference to angels and use the same phrase in Job 1 to reference men? Probably not. It is not impossible bu I would assume he intended angels in both unless a language expert could present a good argument for differences in the Hebrew between these two references by the same author.

However Job applying the phrase sons of god to angels has never been a strong argument for applying it to Gen 6 while ignoring the context of Gen 4:26.

 

[Blik]

I have always understood the sons of god to be human in Gen 6 based on the rule of context (Gen 4:26)

However in Job 1 we would not know for certain whether he was talking about angels or men if it were not for Job 38 which is an additional reference by the same author using the same phrase which almost certainly is intended to be taken as angels rather than men.

4Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.

5Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?

6Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Now if God is asking Job where he was at the time of creation when He laid the foundations of the earth it seems that His main point is that NO MAN was there. Therefore these sons of God shouting for Joy would be angels as would the morning stars doing the singing, unless he is referring to the creation of the stars when he mentions the morning stars sang together but even then it seems to be a poetic reference to the star representing angelic hosts themselves.

I don't think you can interpret Job 38:7 any other way than something God did in creation BEFORE he created Adam.

Would the same author use the phrase sons of god here as a reference to angels and use the same phrase in Job 1 to reference men? Probably not. It is not impossible bu I would assume he intended angels in both unless a language expert could present a good argument for differences in the Hebrew between these two references by the same author.

However Job applying the phrase sons of god to angels has never been a strong argument for applying it to Gen 6 while ignoring the context of Gen 4:26.

Thanks, you base your answer on scripture. We are not told exactly what God means by sons of God, so if we say we know it is not based on scripture. We are told there was a cohabitation that could not be God's will for God only wills good and this union produced evil. The Lord felt this was enough information for us.

 

[Scribe]

Thanks, you base your answer on scripture. We are not told exactly what God means by sons of God, so if we say we know it is not based on scripture. We are told there was a cohabitation that could not be God's will for God only wills good and this union produced evil. The Lord felt this was enough information for us.

It clearly tells us that it was because they took them wives which is something that men do with women. It says nothing about cohabitation, not sure why that word would come to your mind. The sons of Seth started calling themselves by the name of God, as in sons of god, children of god, people of god, because Cains people were not following god. So plain you have to be taught to think something different. The writer assumed it was so plain that he did not explain who the sons of god were a second time assuming that the reader would know he was referring to those of Seths camp who he had already mentioned in Gen 4. To say that it does not tell us who the sons of god were is a personal opinion on the text because you missed it. Reading Comprehension rules apply here.
People can believe what they want but it there is no missing information that requires guessing. What was displeasing was that the godly were taking wives from the daughters of men Cains camp, as these wives were not living lives of righteousness. Enoch prophesied that judgement was coming for their harsh words they spoke against God. When the godly started marrying these ungodly women they started practicing ungodliness and that is why God said my Spirit will not always strive with man.
God is always displeased when the godly lay down their godliness for the gratification of their flesh and fall away from faith.

 

[Blik]

It clearly tells us that it was because they took them wives which is something that men do with women. It says nothing about cohabitation, not sure why that word would come to your mind. The sons of Seth started calling themselves by the name of God, as in sons of god, children of god, people of god, because Cains people were not following god. So plain you have to be taught to think something different. The writer assumed it was so plain that he did not explain who the sons of god were a second time assuming that the reader would know he was referring to those of Seths camp who he had already mentioned in Gen 4. To say that it does not tell us who the sons of god were is a personal opinion on the text because you missed it. Reading Comprehension rules apply here.
People can believe what they want but it there is no missing information that requires guessing. What was displeasing was that the godly were taking wives from the daughters of men Cains camp, as these wives were not living lives of righteousness. Enoch prophesied that judgement was coming for their harsh words they spoke against God. When the godly started marrying these ungodly women they started practicing ungodliness and that is why God said my Spirit will not always strive with man.
God is always displeased when the godly lay down their godliness for the gratification of their flesh and fall away from faith.

I used cohabitation in place of they took to them wives.

I can not believe that humans will or ever have acted in the way we are told these people acted. They all became evil, and humans have always had a remnant who looked to God. There are large people among humans, but no giant race as we are told these are. The whole race was declared evil, with only Noah selected to acknowledge the Lord.

Don't you think it could be possible that God is speaking of the new way we will have after this world as it is ends when we are told God will not always strive with man?

 

[Scribe]

I used cohabitation in place of they took to them wives.

I can not believe that humans will or ever have acted in the way we are told these people acted. They all became evil, and humans have always had a remnant who looked to God. There are large people among humans, but no giant race as we are told these are. The whole race was declared evil, with only Noah selected to acknowledge the Lord.

Don't you think it could be possible that God is speaking of the new way we will have after this world as it is ends when we are told God will not always strive with man?

In Gen 6 when he said ...My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. .... He was talking about bringing the flood in 120 years, which he did. All the godly on Adam/Seths camp went over to Cains camp by marrying their daughters and enjoying whatever wickedness they were doing over there East of Eden in the city of Enoch leaving only Noah and his family from the sons of god. Something along those lines.

But yes, God is still saying the same thing today... He looks at the evil going on and says My Spirit will not always strive with man his days are numbered and he will bring back Jesus who will judge the world and establish His everlasting reign of righteousness that will not be abolished.

 

[MyrtleTrees]

The Sons of God in Job were human men not angels

I think you may be right, as it says they came to present themselves before the Lord. They wouldn't need to to do that if they had been angels. Unless God brought angels along to be a part of the discussion - which seems unlikely, in view of the fact that the term here, "Sons of God" - probably refers to humans. They are not called "Sons of God" again in Job, I see - at least - not as being present in this event. And the "Sons of God" - in this event, are not recorded as having said anything, in this early part of the story, before the tragedies happened. I don't know who these men may have been. And Job's 3 friends didn't show up until after the calamities had taken place.

Job 2:1
2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
KJV