Any Post or Non-Tribbers in Here?

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L

Live4Him2

Guest
It's my understanding that we remain in heaven for seven years and then return with Christ to reign with Him for a thousand years.
No offense, Lori, but what will the saints allegedly be doing for these 7 years in heaven?

The textbook answer is that they'll be partaking of the marriage supper of the Lamb with Jesus, but that is easily refuted in so many different ways.

For one thing, the Bible says that Jesus will remain seated at the Father's right hand in heaven until his enemies are made his footstool (Psalm 110:1, Matt. 22:44, Luke 20:42-43).

Well, we get a glimpse of this throne room in heaven in the book of Revelation and elsewhere.

Do you honestly believe that Jesus is going to be partaking of the marriage supper of the Lamb while seated at the Father's right hand?

Perhaps folding tables will be brought in for everyone?

I'm NOT seeking to mock you, but the whole concept is absolutely ridiculous.

Or maybe he'll abandon his throne for 7 years and partake of the supper elsewhere in heaven?

What of the saints who will still be here on earth during this alleged 7=year supper in heaven (talk about gluttony, btw)?

I mean, if their intercessor/mediator abandons his throne, and especially during the time of great tribulation like this world has never seen before, how can they get through to the Father?

Again, it's absolutely ridiculous, so don't mind me if I ridicule it as I refute it scripturally.

And what of the tribulation saints?

They don't get to partake of this alleged 7-year marriage supper?

Do they at least get leftovers?

Again, it's absolute heretical nonsense.

NOWHERE IN SCRIPTURE does it state that the marriage supper of the Lamb is even in heaven.

In fact, Jesus gave us clear indication that it's going to be right here on earth when he said:

"But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom." (Matt. 26:29)

"Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God." (Mark 14:25)

The "Father's kingdom" or "the kingdom of God" is COMING to this earth, even as Jesus taught his disciples to pray (Matt. 6:9-13).

This certainly sounds like the actual location of the marriage supper of the Lamb to me:

Isaiah chapter 25

[6] And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined.
[7] And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
[8] He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
[9] And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him, and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.

For starters, "this mountain" (vs. 6) is Mount Zion in Jerusalem.

Notice the coming "feast of wines" (vs. 6), and compare that to what Jesus said about not drinking of the fruit of the vine again until the time of the kingdom of God which, again, is coming to this earth.

Notice, too, the timeframe where "he will swallow up death in victory" (vs. 8) as people say "this is our God; we have waited for him" (vs. 9).

Where are they waiting for him?

in heaven or right here on earth?

Of course, the correct answer is the latter of the two.

And what about this?

Matthew chapter 22

[1] And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,
[2] The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
[3] And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
[4] Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
[5] But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
[6] And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
[7] But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
[8] Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
[9] Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
[10] So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.
[11] And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
[12] And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
[13] Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
[14] For many are called, but few are chosen.

"A certain king, which made a marriage for his son" (vs. 2) and who "prepared his dinner" (vs. 4)?

Boy, that certainly sounds like the marriage supper of the Lamb to me.

Here's a question for you:

If this marriage supper is allegedly in heaven, then how did "a man which had not on a wedding garment" (vs. 11) allegedly get to heaven, only to later be bound and cast into outer darkness where there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth?

Again, it's utter heretical nonsense.

Well, hopefully, someone will get it.

After all, I'd hate to think that my labor here is all in vain.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
AGREE: God has not appointed us to His wrath.

This does not suggest any type of pre-trib raptured as falsely assumed by many.

Hold fast to the whole counsel of God.

Read 1 Thess & 2 Thess , 1 John , and Revelation again.
Ive read the above more than probably most doesnt change my view but reinforces it.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
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There's a reaping of the earth by the Son of Man in Rev. 14:14-16, that's the fulfillment of the parable of wheat and tares in Matt. 13:24-30 and 13:36-43. If pre-trib rapture was supposed to be this "reaping", then all that's left would be the wicked tares, no "good son of the Kingdom" or "tribulation saints" would be left during the Great Tribulation, but obviously that's not the case according to the last book of the bible.
Matt 13

40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

These are those in the millennium kingdom who Satan is released on. Then they are thrown into the Lake of fire.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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Well I suppose it is how we define prepare a place and how He came back.

To prepare a place is the New Jerusalem, New Heaven, New Earth.

To come back to the apostles could be the Spirit because that was probably when they we're sealed with the Spirit. The Spirit brought them to the day of salvation upon death.
Here it is Brother = John 14:1-4 leads us to John ch17 leads us to John ch20 and there is more

17Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,
‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’ ”

18Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that He had spoken these things to her.

19Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 20When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.
 
L

Live4Him2

Guest
“There is a MAJOR DIFFERENCE between someone being raised from the dead in their physical body, only to die again later (as in the case of OT resurrections, Lazarus, the saints who arose in Matthew 27:51-52, etc., etc.),”

where does it say they died two times ? And then will be resurrected a second time ? Open mind but it seems like you are just adding that part is there anything to say they died again ?

“And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27‬ ‭

“Then shall the dust return to the dust as it was:

and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭12:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the spirit goes here when the body dies

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For we must needs die, and are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; neither doth God respect any person: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him.”
‭‭2 Samuel‬ ‭14:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Seriously?

So, you believe that Lazarus, for example, is still alive?

If you happen to bump into him, then please tell him that I'd like to meet him.

Thanks.

God help us.
 
Aug 2, 2021
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Ive read the above more than probably most doesnt change my view but reinforces it.
But do you believe ALL that you read???

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition

Do you believe this? the Antichrist comes before the LORD's Coming and our gathering together to HIM.

Let me know - Peace
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
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Here it is Brother = John 14:1-4 leads us to John ch17 leads us to John ch20 and there is more

17Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them,
‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’ ”

18Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that He had spoken these things to her.

19Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 20When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.
But He ascended and did not take them where He was going at that point.
 
Feb 24, 2022
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Matt 13

40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

These are those in the millennium kingdom who Satan is released on. Then they are thrown into the Lake of fire.
He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. (Matt. 13:37-39)

There's only one reaping, and no sons of the kingdom is "left behind". They're not separated into "the church" and the "martyrs" who somehow come to Jesus during the tribulation.
 
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But He ascended and did not take them where He was going at that point.
HE ascended to place His Blood on the Mercy Seat and thus fulfill His Promise = "I go to prepare a place for you, that where I am you may be also"

There is more Scriptural evidence of this.

Dwell on it and we can talk again - in Him, we are found, and forevermore amen
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
But do you believe ALL that you read???

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition

Do you believe this? the Antichrist comes before the LORD's Coming and our gathering together to HIM.

Let me know - Peace
Yes the anti christ comes before jesus . So then the great trib
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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Seriously?

So, you believe that Lazarus, for example, is still alive?

If you happen to bump into him, then please tell him that I'd like to meet him.

Thanks.

God help us.
lol I was just asking if your view is coming from the Bible or if it’s just your opinion not looking to offend you but I understand

God bless
 
Aug 2, 2021
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Yes the anti christ comes before jesus . So then the great trib
Yes, we are currently waiting for our LORD's Coming and before Christ Returns for the Resurrection the Antichrist deceives the world with lying wonders and the Mark as described in 2 Thes 2:1-5 and Revelation ch13.

How can there be a pre-trib rapture when the LORD's Second Coming is after all this?

Let me know - Peace
 
L

Live4Him2

Guest
lol I was just asking if your view is coming from the Bible or if it’s just your opinion not looking to offend you but I understand

God bless
Actually, I'm sorry for being sarcastic. My bad. You didn't offend me at all, and thanks for taking it in a light-hearted manner and not being offended yourself.

To your point, how would you reconcile "it is appointed unto men once to die" with the fact that the saints who are yet alive at Christ's second coming will be raptured without ever dying?

Anyhow, time for me to head to work (I'm dreading it)...
 
Jan 14, 2021
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the children of thy people [the Jews]
"Thy people" is a reference to OT saints, people of the holy covenant, or children of God. Following the tone of the earlier chapters of Daniel, the "children of thy people" is a reference to children of God / children of OT saints / children of those in the holy covenant. This is at the very least inclusive of those in Christ per Galatians 3.

"Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." - Galatians 3:7 KJV

"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." - Galatians 3:26 KJV

If you believe that the book of Daniel mentions an antiChrist because of that person's opposition to the holy covenant per Dan 11, that necessarily means that the people of the (singular) "holy covenant" referenced in Daniel are those in Christ (being from any number of familylines and origins).

And if this is the Great Tribulation and you consider the referenced deliverance a skyward removal, that would make your rapture interpretation a mid or post Trib.

In order for your interpretation of Dan 12 to be compatible with a pretrib model, you would need to justify why your interpretation would rule out the presence of those in Christ, which that exclusion itself is not evident in Daniel 12. And that exclusion is at odds with Gal 3.

and we shall be changed... Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The word "rapture" is derived from the Latin "rapiemur" in the Latin Vulgate, which is a translation for "caught up together".
If all you mean by rapture is "caught up together", that is clearly addressed in 1 Thes 4:17 which happens at the descent of the Lord. Therefore the timing of what you count as a rapture necessarily corresponds to the Lord's descent. Where in Revelation do you place the Lord's descent aside from Rev 19 or 20?

Another user tried to attribute this to Rev 14:14. Is this your position as well?

On a slightly different topic and for the sake of exploring a figurative interpretation of Revelation. Did it ever strike you as odd that the imagery in the dreams that Daniel interprets in the book of Daniel are repeated in Revelation? Did it ever strike you as odd that John's angel companion in Revelation explains that the things John is witnessing are metaphoric?

"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast." - Rev 17:12 KJV
 
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But he cannot be revealed untill ???? What is removed?
2 Thess ch 2 states that the LORD's Coming and our gathering together to Him = RAPTURE = will not come until the man of sin is revealed.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

The AC will not be revealed until = For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work;
only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

HE who is taken out of the way is ??? is who???
 
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pottersclay

Guest
Yes, we are currently waiting for our LORD's Coming and before Christ Returns for the Resurrection the Antichrist deceives the world with lying wonders and the Mark as described in 2 Thes 2:1-5 and Revelation ch13.

How can there be a pre-trib rapture when the LORD's Second Coming is after all this?

Let me know - Peace
Well the rapture is not his second comming. It is a snatching away. John in revelation is a example of this.
We see john hear a voice as a trumpet (used to warn or call assembly in old testament).
The voice tells john to come up.
John then is immediately in the spirit (like paul describes in a twinkling of a eye.)
He does not see the lord untill he is in the throne room. (The second coming declares all eyes will see him as he descends.)
 

eXric

Active member
Mar 31, 2022
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Pre trib rapture (I use this term loosely) sounds boring and does not seem to check out with the scripture
There seems to be a lot of your own understanding of the words of scriptures.
Human understanding is boring because I heard most of it already. People can get the Bible to say all sorts of different things. Some guy was telling me that submission to the husbands was justification to beat his wife. How more so is it
to assume you know how things are done in haven, seems odd. Were you there?
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
2 Thess ch 2 states that the LORD's Coming and our gathering together to Him = RAPTURE = will not come until the man of sin is revealed.

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

The AC will not be revealed until = For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work;
only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

HE who is taken out of the way is ??? is who???
Well we both agree that something must be removed which restrains what do you think it is?
 
Aug 2, 2021
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But He ascended and did not take them where He was going at that point.
Well the rapture is not his second comming. It is a snatching away. John in revelation is a example of this.
We see john hear a voice as a trumpet (used to warn or call assembly in old testament).
The voice tells john to come up.
John then is immediately in the spirit (like paul describes in a twinkling of a eye.)
He does not see the lord untill he is in the throne room. (The second coming declares all eyes will see him as he descends.)
How and where do you come up with "the rapture is not the Second Coming?

We just read together that at Christ's Coming we will be gathered together unto Him = 2 Thess 2:1-3

Paul wrote 2 Thess 2:1-3 because people were saying they missed His Coming and the rapture.

Paul previously wrote this in 1 Thess 4:13-18

But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
After that we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
Therefore comfort one another with these words.

So the Apostle Paul states in both of his Letters to the Thessalonica church that at Christ's Coming HE will rapture those who are alive at His Coming.

How then do you say this is not the Second Coming of Christ?