Any Post or Non-Tribbers in Here?

[Rhomphaeam]

He is the one who produced the heretical nonsense "Before the Wrath" which is based upon a book about this alleged "traditional Jewish wedding".

Can I ask you if you have heard Brent Miller Jr explain his own reasons for making this documentary/film and how he predicates the meaning to a Galilean wedding as distinct from a traditional Jewish wedding? Did you know that when you posted your comments?

 

[eXric]

My Post #143 states: 'The Jewish Wedding has, in part, already been fulfilled by Christ. All that remains is for the completion of the Bride to take place according to those whom the Father will call."

Let me know if you see in Post #143 - thank you

so sorry about that. I was trying to delete it right away. When I read your full post for the second time. You caught me in that 2 minutes that it took for my two see. We you forgive my error?

 

[DavidTree]

Please explain how the Jewish wedding has been fulfilled. When our Groom said He is going to prepare a place for us, and He’s coming back to take us to where He is, when and how did that take place? Am I expecting something that was never going to happen?

Lori, Please Read John 14: 1-4 carefully for it has been fulfilled and you will be able to see it in Scripture.

Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4And where I go you know, and the way you know.”

 

[eXric]

I think the word "like" and in context shows he will surprise you.

Lori sorry about this post. when I re read it, this statement sounds condescending.

 

[DavidTree]

so sorry about that. I was trying to delete it right away. When I read your full post for the second time. You caught me in that 2 minutes that it took for my two see. We you forgive my error?

Brother, You did not offend by any means - made me go back and check as well which is a good thing to do.

Thank you for the Love of Christ in your heart for me - Peace

 

[Marilyn]

Thank you. You’ve made a lot of good points. With all I’m learning, I gotta say that my pre trib stance isn’t as strong as it was a few days ago. But here’s my problem. Jesus said that no man knows the day or the hour of his coming. for a post trib coming (or rapture) all we really have to do is wait for thé antichrist to declare himself God, and boom! We can calculate exactly when His coming will occur. Why does He depict his coming as a thief in the night when that scenario is apparently never going to happen. I’m confused more than ever.

Hi Lori,

I am a firm pre-tribber and would like to help you sort through the difficulties.

1. `No one knows the day or hour...` That is so often brought up. However WHEN did Jesus say that? While on earth, however NOW He is at the Father`s right hand, (in the Godhead) and ONE with the Father in knowing ALL things. And He tells His Body, us by the Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul -

`But you brethren, are NOT in darkness so that this day should overtake you as a THIEF. ` (1 Thess. 5: 4)

``But exhorting, (encouraging and warning) one another and so much the more as YOU SEE the day APPROACHING.` (Heb. 10: 25)

The Lord, the Head of His Body will be telling us by His Holy Spirit that the time is drawing near so that we are ready and NOT overtaken. We also need to be `eagerly waiting for Him,` (Heb. 9: 28).

Note: The Lord is coming as a thief to those in DARKNESS. (1 Thess. 5: 2 & 3)


2. `the man of sin revealed.` (2 Thess. 2: 3) This refers to the Day of the Lord. And we know that the specific day of the Lord comes at the end of the trib, when the Lord appears in power and great glory bringing vengeance upon the rebellious. (Rev. 6: 17, 19: 11)

And obviously the A/C is before the Lord comes to destroy Him. We, (Body of Christ) however are not in that time period.

regards, Marilyn.

 

[eXric]

Brother, You did not offend by any means - made me go back and check as well which is a good thing to do.

Thank you for the Love of Christ in your heart for me - Peace

Thanks

 

[Marilyn]

Here, Jesus clearly states that the only person who knows that day and the hour is his Father.

That is so often brought up. However WHEN did Jesus say that? While on earth, however NOW He is at the Father`s right hand, (in the Godhead) and ONE with the Father in knowing ALL things. And He tells His Body, us by the Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul -

`But you brethren, are NOT in darkness so that this day should overtake you as a THIEF. ` (1 Thess. 5: 4)

``But exhorting, (encouraging and warning) one another and so much the more as YOU SEE the day APPROACHING.` (Heb. 10: 25)

The Lord, the Head of His Body will be telling us by His Holy Spirit that the time is drawing near so that we are ready and NOT overtaken. We also need to be `eagerly waiting for Him,` (Heb. 9: 28).

Note: The Lord is coming as a thief to those in DARKNESS. (1 Thess. 5: 2 & 3)

 

[Live4Him2]

Can I ask you if you have heard Brent Miller Jr explain his own reasons for making this documentary/film and how he predicates the meaning to a Galilean wedding as distinct from a traditional Jewish wedding? Did you know that when you posted your comments?

I saw several interviews where Brent Miller Jr plainly explained his reasonings, but you're seemingly missing the actual point which is this:

His timing is all wrong according to scripture, and he's deceiving multitudes.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Hi, Lori.

First, let's consider WHAT Jesus said.

"But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." (Matthew 24:36)

Here, Jesus clearly states that the only person who knows that day and the hour is his Father.

Now, let's consider WHEN Jesus said it.

He said this during his incarnation or before his death, burial, resurrection from the dead, and ascension back to the Father in heaven.

Is this important to recognize?

Yes, it most certainly is, and here is why:

"The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. " (Revelation 1:1-2)

After Christ's death, burial, resurrection, and ascension back to the Father's right hand in heaven, God gave unto him a revelation (hence, the book's title) or revealed things to him which he didn't previously know during his incarnation.

As you probably already know, the book of Daniel and the book of Revelation oftentimes go together like hand and glove.

With such in mind, please consider the following:

"But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. " (Daniel 12:4)

There were certain words which were shut up and sealed in a book during the time of Daniel.

It's no coincidence that the book of Revelation is all about what is revealed when seven seals are opened in a book.

In relation to the same, we read:

Revelation chapter 5

[1] And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
[2] And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
[3] And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
[4] And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
[5] And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
[6] And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
[7] And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
[8] And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
[9] And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
[10] And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Here, the Apostle John saw God the Father sitting upon a throne with a book in his right hand that was written within and on the backside and sealed with seven seals (vs. 1).

He then heard an angel proclaiming with a loud voice, "Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?" (vs. 2)

In other words, there was apparently some sort of criteria which someone had to meet in order to be considered worthy to open this book by loosing its seals.

When no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth was found worthy to open the book and read it, John wept much (vss. 3-4).

However, one of the elders told him to weep not (vs. 5), and here is why:

"Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof." (vs. 5)

It wasn't until Jesus Christ had prevailed that one was found worthy to open the book and to loose the seven seals thereof.

We gain a much better understanding of this a little later on when the four beasts and the four and twenty elders fall down before him and sing this song (vss. 8-9):

"Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open Almighty.
[15] Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
[16] And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
[17] And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

Here, we clearly see the seven angels pouring out the seven vials of the wrath of God upon the earth (vs. 1).

As the first vial of God's wrath is poured out, "the mark of the beast" and "his image" are both already here (vs. 2).

As the fifth vial of God's wrath is poured out, "the seat of the beast, and his kingdom" are both already here (vs. 10).

As the sixth vial of God's wrath is poured out, "three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of THE DRAGON, and out of the mouth of THE BEAST, and out of the mouth of THE FALSE PROPHET" (vss. 12-13) because all three of them are already here. Not only this, but these "three unclean spirits" (vs. 13) are "the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty" (vs. 14) or to the battle of "Armageddon" (vs. 16).

Now, look what JESUS says during the timeframe between the pouring out of the sixth and seventh vials of the wrath of God:

"Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame." (vs. 15)

In other words, HE HASN'T YET COME AS A THIEF UP UNTIL THIS POINT IN TIME.

For this reason, he is still heard admonishing his followers to "watch and keep their garments".

THIS IS THE TRUTH.

The pre-tribulation rapture teaching is A COMPLETE AND UTTER FABRICATION.

Who has ears to hear, let them hear.

I come as a thief is a general description of how God works. The day of the Lord as been many times in scripture.

It means the day of judgment or visitation.

For example, in Joel.


Joel 2
New International Version
2 Blow the trumpet in Zion;
sound the alarm on my holy hill.
Let all who live in the land tremble,
for the day of the Lord is coming.
It is close at hand—
2 a day of darkness and gloom,
a day of clouds and blackness.
Like dawn spreading across the mountains
a large and mighty army comes,
such as never was in ancient times
nor ever will be in ages to come.

That day came and judgement was given by the invading army.

In context we find what day the writer is referring to.

Also day can be translated differently for example, the same word is used in


Matthew 2:1
New International Version

2 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem.

The time or day of Herod was a period or season of time. The day of the Lord could just as easily last 1000 years.

One day to the Lord is like a thousand years.

Could this day be from rapture to the 2nd coming? It it is possible or like in Joel it is simply one a visitation and the other judgment. But by no means does the metaphor of thief automatically refer to the same event.

 

[Marilyn]

I come as a thief is a general description of how God works. The day of the Lord as been many times in scripture.

It means the day of judgment or visitation.

.

That is so often brought up. However WHEN did Jesus say that? While on earth, however NOW He is at the Father`s right hand, (in the Godhead) and ONE with the Father in knowing ALL things. And He tells His Body, us by the Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul -

`But you brethren, are NOT in darkness so that this day should overtake you as a THIEF. ` (1 Thess. 5: 4)

``But exhorting, (encouraging and warning) one another and so much the more as YOU SEE the day APPROACHING.` (Heb. 10: 25)

The Lord, the Head of His Body will be telling us by His Holy Spirit that the time is drawing near so that we are ready and NOT overtaken. We also need to be `eagerly waiting for Him,` (Heb. 9: 28).

Note: The Lord is coming as a thief to those in DARKNESS. (1 Thess. 5: 2 & 3)

 

[Live4Him2]

I come as a thief is a general description of how God works. The day of the Lord as been many times in scripture.

It means the day of judgment or visitation.

For example, in Joel.


Joel 2
New International Version
2 Blow the trumpet in Zion;
sound the alarm on my holy hill.
Let all who live in the land tremble,
for the day of the Lord is coming.
It is close at hand—
2 a day of darkness and gloom,
a day of clouds and blackness.
Like dawn spreading across the mountains
a large and mighty army comes,
such as never was in ancient times
nor ever will be in ages to come.

That day came and judgement was given by the invading army.

In context we find what day the writer is referring to.

Also day can be translated differently for example, the same word is used in


Matthew 2:1
New International Version

2 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem.

The time or day of Herod was a period or season of time. The day of the Lord could just as easily last 1000 years.

One day to the Lord is like a thousand years.

Could this day be from rapture to the 2nd coming? It it is possible or like in Joel it is simply one a visitation and the other judgment. But by no means does the metaphor of thief automatically refer to the same event.

And you conveniently ignored all of the verses which actually mention him coming as a thief or as a thief in the night.

He comes as a thief after the tribulation...just as he actually said.

You do realize that your quarrel is with Jesus Christ, and not with me, right?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Dowery has been paid = His Body on the Cross and His Blood shed for us.

His Fathers House has many mansions and He already has prepared a place for us who are His.

Read carefully John 14:1-4 for this has already taken place.
Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4And where I go you know, and the way you know.”

I agree the dowery has been paid.

But the mansions are being prepared and we are not there yet.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

That is so often brought up. However WHEN did Jesus say that? While on earth, however NOW He is at the Father`s right hand, (in the Godhead) and ONE with the Father in knowing ALL things. And He tells His Body, us by the Holy Spirit through the Apostle Paul -

`But you brethren, are NOT in darkness so that this day should overtake you as a THIEF. ` (1 Thess. 5: 4)

``But exhorting, (encouraging and warning) one another and so much the more as YOU SEE the day APPROACHING.` (Heb. 10: 25)

The Lord, the Head of His Body will be telling us by His Holy Spirit that the time is drawing near so that we are ready and NOT overtaken. We also need to be `eagerly waiting for Him,` (Heb. 9: 28).

Note: The Lord is coming as a thief to those in DARKNESS. (1 Thess. 5: 2 & 3)

True be we still will not know the day or hour.

 

[Marilyn]

I agree the dowery has been paid.

But the mansions are being prepared and we are not there yet.

May I bring a bit of clarity here. MEN you are NOT a BRIDE!!!!!

That is a symbol God used for Israel. (Isa. 54: 4 - 6)

We, the Body of Christ are the NEW MAN. (Eph. 2: 15) Meaning that male and female natures are combined.

 

[Marilyn]

True be we still will not know the day or hour.

The Holy Spirit will ready us so that we will not be driving, flying planes, doing operations etc. We WILL KNOW exactly when it is when we NEED to know.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

I saw several interviews where Brent Miller Jr plainly explained his reasonings, but you're seemingly missing the actual point which is this:

His timing is all wrong according to scripture, and he's deceiving multitudes.

I could hardly miss your point seeing that it was so emphatically expressed. I asked for a reason - not to turn my face towards a hand of correction.

Here are his reasons. If you or anyone else is going to condemn something - not the pre tribulation rapture but the work of another Christian as you have - then ought you not to have armed yourself with a full hand of claims by the one you condemn.

And you conveniently ignored all of the verses which actually mention him coming as a thief or as a thief in the night.

For example this point is expressed in meaning and whilst the thief in the night is not the argument - the reason why like a thief is inferred in the video. The Galilean connection is also plainly stated as is the distinctions between a traditional Jewish wedding and those Galilean traditions that were unique to Galilee - according to the claim.

I asked a question - I am not citing a belief. I have a gift of staying detached and if not detached then to cover over what I am saying so as to leave the Father the sovereign hand of revelation. Unlike yourself - I am no mans teacher.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

And you conveniently ignored all of the verses which actually mention him coming as a thief or as a thief in the night.

He comes as a thief after the tribulation...just as he actually said.

You do realize that your quarrel is with Jesus Christ, and not with me, right?

Didn't know I was in a quarrel. I'm speaking to you not Jesus Christ so it is not relevant. If it was Jesus Christ I would simply say, your right and I'm wrong. But on here so far I have only spoken to men and women, no Messiah, angel or God.

We are sharing our interpretations and the law of non-contradiction means either both views are wrong, one view is right, or both contain truth and errors. So as humans with finite and limited capabilities we will be destined to debate theological truths.

In my opinion, it was through God's sovereignty to work through these flaws in human nature to protect His Word as people debate and true believers will be brought to such a place of unity like agreement on the Gospel but disagreement on how to baptize.

That debate protects the ultimate truth as it allows the liberty to gain and resist knowledge. When churches go radical they do it in a sea of push back and debate rather than a echo chamber.

Anyways I agree Jesus does come like a thief right after the tribulation. But nothing was ignored just simply sharing context.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

The Holy Spirit will ready us so that we will not be driving, flying planes, doing operations etc. We WILL KNOW exactly when it is when we NEED to know.

Oh for sure, when we see Jesus, we will know but until then we will only see the birth pains.

 

[Marilyn]

I could hardly miss your point seeing that it was so emphatically expressed. I asked for a reason - not to turn my face towards a hand of correction.

Here are his reasons. If you or anyone else is going to condemn something - not the pre tribulation rapture but the work of another Christian as you have - then ought you not to have armed yourself with a full hand of claims by the one you condemn.




For example this point is expressed in meaning and whilst the thief in the night is not the argument - the reason why like a thief is inferred in the video. The Galilean connection is also plainly stated as is the distinctions between a traditional Jewish wedding and those Galilean traditions that were unique to Galilee - according to the claim.

I asked a question - I am not citing a belief. I have a gift of staying detached and if not detached then to cover over what I am saying so as to leave the Father the sovereign hand of revelation. Unlike yourself - I am no mans teacher.

A spirit of confusion there.