necto:
this is an example of why the concept of "listening" to The Spirit as it expressed by so many becomes a critical issue. it is not merely a matter of semantics, it has actually become in a way that appears to be escaping many of us a
krisis, or turning point in modern Christianity: what spirit are we "listening" to?
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you and i have been attempting to determine exactly how (and what) we are taught by The Holy Spirit.
i asked you to provide examples of what teachings of the Holy Spirit i was not "hearing" or "listening" to. we discussed previously that spiritual things pertaining to the True God are not understood by the natural man, he can never understand them because he is spiritually dead.
we appear to agree that one can "listen" all day long, but without the new birth there is no teaching, no understanding, man's mind is darkened and he can not understand.
i take heat for apparently not "listening" to what evangelicals today love to call the "small still voice" (this phrase has been completely misrepresented and has an entire theological system built upon it, i'll cover it later) - but i would like to look at this post alone to see which of us actually HEARD The Holy Spirit properly during this conversation:
Have you never read in the Gospel of John as Jesus said :... and hear his voice and do not know where it comes from and where it goes, so it is with everyone born of the Spirit? Hearing the Spirit is the knowledge of Spirit and awareness in the minds of information carried by the Spirit. Speaking of the Spirit is the revelation that more often than not the result of our thinking. Spirit interprets the Bible not as a human but how He wants, so the spiritual interpretation of truth is fundamentally opposed to an external spiritual. But the natural man does not understand things of the Spirit and can not, for it is madness for him !
above is a statement attributed to Jesus, one He did not make.
but that statement can and does prop up the idea that we are actually to be listening for voice(s) coming from within ourselves.
so, i need to compare what the Holy Spirit actually inspired John to record as having been spoken directly by Jesus Christ, and brought to my remembrance
as opposed to what you believe the Holy Spirit taught
you Jesus Himself has said.
[this is not angels on a pinhead - this goes to the heart of this entire issue of "listening" for voices, and
worse still, trusting what others say they have "heard"]
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Here Jesus is talking to Nicodemous about the new birth: He has just finished saying that no one will see God without the new birth, witout having being born again.
John 3:8
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Jesus is describing what the new birth
IS LIKE: He uses the analogy of the WIND.
He is describing, among other things, the sovereignty of God in raising men from death to life.
at no place in that verse does Jesus say anything whatsoever about the Spirit speaking to anyone, or anyone listening to the Spirit or anyone else....it is an analogy.
yet this verse is used continually to justify contemplative prayer and meditation practises that are never, ever approved by God, and things Jesus has apparently said while people are in this state are then presented as new revelation.
will The Holy Spirit EVER teach something not in accordance with what is written?
if we are wrong once in what we think we hear, are we not in danger of total deception?
and any honest person can look at the state of Christianity today and ask why, if we are to be sitting around meditating waiting to hear something audible, or rely on impressions "in my heart" do we have so many people giving so many messages from Jesus, The Father, The Holy Spirit, angels, devils and you name it?
why is this happening necto?
you claim i am a theorist and do not know anything spiritual, that you are "walking in the Spirit", etc. yet in this conversation alone, this is what YOU HEARD....and more critically, it is what YOU TAUGHT:
Have you never read in the Gospel of John as Jesus said :... and hear his voice and do not know where it comes from and where it goes, so it is with everyone born of the Spirit?
when again, this is what was brought to my mind by The Spirit, including its address in the scriptures:
John 3:8
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
could you explain how this happened necto? how did you get this so wrong?
someone clearly taught it to you this way....and you apparently have not looked to see what it really says - how can this be if you are actually being taught by the Spirit?
and do you see what i'm getting at?
this is no small matter - once again, Jesus has been made to say something directly He clearly NEVER SAID. yet these warning signals are allowed to slip by one after another until people no longer know who to trust or what has been said.
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which one of us was actually taught by The Spirit in this case, necto?
does it matter?
