Apostles, Prophets, Teachers,...

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus said that scripture testifies of Him, therefore it cannt be Him.

If you believe the bible is Jesus, then you have an idol.

I do not slam nor do I dismiss scripture. It holds a dear place in my heart. But I am able to recognize that which is from the Creator from the Creator Himself.

But because you believe that the bible is Jesus, we have nothing more to discuss, as I am not permitted to hold treck with idolators.

If we did not have scripture. You would not even Know Jesus. You would not know how to get saved, You would not know why you need saved. You would not know who Jesus is. You would not know what he did. Why he did it. Why God sent him to do it. You would be lost as would I. Yes scripture testifies of Jesus. That what scripture is about. In the beginning was the word. The word was God and the word was with God. The word is Jesus. Scripture is the word written by the HS which is all about Jesus, testifies of him. Tells us everything we need to know about him.

Why don't you get off your judgment seat. You have no right judging anyone when you dismiss scripture the way you do!

 

[Necto]

necto:
this is an example of why the concept of "listening" to The Spirit as it expressed by so many becomes a critical issue. it is not merely a matter of semantics, it has actually become in a way that appears to be escaping many of us a krisis, or turning point in modern Christianity: what spirit are we "listening" to?

~

you and i have been attempting to determine exactly how (and what) we are taught by The Holy Spirit.

i asked you to provide examples of what teachings of the Holy Spirit i was not "hearing" or "listening" to. we discussed previously that spiritual things pertaining to the True God are not understood by the natural man, he can never understand them because he is spiritually dead.

we appear to agree that one can "listen" all day long, but without the new birth there is no teaching, no understanding, man's mind is darkened and he can not understand.

i take heat for apparently not "listening" to what evangelicals today love to call the "small still voice" (this phrase has been completely misrepresented and has an entire theological system built upon it, i'll cover it later) - but i would like to look at this post alone to see which of us actually HEARD The Holy Spirit properly during this conversation:



above is a statement attributed to Jesus, one He did not make.

but that statement can and does prop up the idea that we are actually to be listening for voice(s) coming from within ourselves.

so, i need to compare what the Holy Spirit actually inspired John to record as having been spoken directly by Jesus Christ, and brought to my remembrance as opposed to what you believe the Holy Spirit taught you Jesus Himself has said.

[this is not angels on a pinhead - this goes to the heart of this entire issue of "listening" for voices, and worse still, trusting what others say they have "heard"]

~

Here Jesus is talking to Nicodemous about the new birth: He has just finished saying that no one will see God without the new birth, witout having being born again.

John 3:8
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Jesus is describing what the new birth IS LIKE: He uses the analogy of the WIND.

He is describing, among other things, the sovereignty of God in raising men from death to life.
at no place in that verse does Jesus say anything whatsoever about the Spirit speaking to anyone, or anyone listening to the Spirit or anyone else....it is an analogy.

yet this verse is used continually to justify contemplative prayer and meditation practises that are never, ever approved by God, and things Jesus has apparently said while people are in this state are then presented as new revelation.

will The Holy Spirit EVER teach something not in accordance with what is written?

if we are wrong once in what we think we hear, are we not in danger of total deception?

and any honest person can look at the state of Christianity today and ask why, if we are to be sitting around meditating waiting to hear something audible, or rely on impressions "in my heart" do we have so many people giving so many messages from Jesus, The Father, The Holy Spirit, angels, devils and you name it?

why is this happening necto?

you claim i am a theorist and do not know anything spiritual, that you are "walking in the Spirit", etc. yet in this conversation alone, this is what YOU HEARD....and more critically, it is what YOU TAUGHT:

Have you never read in the Gospel of John as Jesus said :... and hear his voice and do not know where it comes from and where it goes, so it is with everyone born of the Spirit?

when again, this is what was brought to my mind by The Spirit, including its address in the scriptures:

John 3:8
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

could you explain how this happened necto? how did you get this so wrong?

someone clearly taught it to you this way....and you apparently have not looked to see what it really says - how can this be if you are actually being taught by the Spirit?

and do you see what i'm getting at?

this is no small matter - once again, Jesus has been made to say something directly He clearly NEVER SAID. yet these warning signals are allowed to slip by one after another until people no longer know who to trust or what has been said.

~

which one of us was actually taught by The Spirit in this case, necto?

does it matter?

You use the KJV Bible. OK. Let's talk. Even if in your version uses the word SOUND ,then what means VOICE ? The voice wich pronounced by throat is sound! The sound may not be a voice, but the voice is the sound! That is what Jesus meant in John 10, 3-5. Recognition of voice is the recognition of sound, and no recognition of meaning! Meaning is secondary . If there is enough content of speech, then it is enough to write. Jesus wanted to emphasize the importance of who says and not what!
It is important to know the source, so it is important to distinguish between voice or sound. According to the KJV, in the passage, which we both have mentioned Jesus spoke about being born again and the sign of it - SOUND. Sound - it's something for hearing. OK? And the sound and the voice should be heard! Knowledge and recognition of (the experience) the Spirit is hearing. Born again must be in the Spirit. This new birth and being in the Father's family. If we are in the family of the Father, then we should to hear Him! The whole question is whether we live in the Spirit? Many born again but do not live for a long time! So do not listen and believe that hearing is the knowledge of Scripture! What nonsense! Those who live in the Spirit should hear Him. And heard it before: Acts 9;10-17, 29 , 8;29 ,10;19 , 11;12 , 21;11 , Mark 13;11 , 1Timothy 4;1 , Hebrews 3;7. This is only a small part of the passages of Scripture which directly points to the speaking of God (Spirit).
So I do not go the wrong way, as you say! And teach me that the Holy Spirit. As it is written: everyone will be taught by God! The anointing that abide on you is true and not false , and what it has taught you - abide in it.

 

[unclefester]

You use the KJV Bible. OK. Let's talk. Even if in your version uses the word SOUND ,then what means VOICE ? The voice wich pronounced by throat is sound! The sound may not be a voice, but the voice is the sound! That is what Jesus meant in John 10, 3-5. Recognition of voice is the recognition of sound, and no recognition of meaning! Meaning is secondary . If there is enough content of speech, then it is enough to write. Jesus wanted to emphasize the importance of who says and not what!
It is important to know the source, so it is important to distinguish between voice or sound. According to the KJV, in the passage, which we both have mentioned Jesus spoke about being born again and the sign of it - SOUND. Sound - it's something for hearing. OK? And the sound and the voice should be heard! Knowledge and recognition of (the experience) the Spirit is hearing. Born again must be in the Spirit. This new birth and being in the Father's family. If we are in the family of the Father, then we should to hear Him! The whole question is whether we live in the Spirit? Many born again but do not live for a long time! So do not listen and believe that hearing is the knowledge of Scripture! What nonsense! Those who live in the Spirit should hear Him. And heard it before: Acts 9;10-17, 29 , 8;29 ,10;19 , 11;12 , 21;11 , Mark 13;11 , 1Timothy 4;1 , Hebrews 3;7. This is only a small part of the passages of Scripture which directly points to the speaking of God (Spirit).
So I do not go the wrong way, as you say! And teach me that the Holy Spirit. As it is written: everyone will be taught by God! The anointing that abide on you is true and not false , and what it has taught you - abide in it.

Ahhh.....the good ole "sign, experience and wonder" thingy. O ye of little faith.

 

[VW]

Ahhh.....the good ole "sign, experience and wonder" thingy. O ye of little faith.

Actually, it is the other way around, and you should look in the mirror.

Yes, people get deceived, all the time. People hear voices in their heads which tell them to do awful things. Those who are born of God, who are born of the Spirit hear God's voice in their heart, and He does not tell them to do awful things, but things like feed the poor, and give to those who are hungry, and convictions like do not be angry, and do not be impatient, and above all, live in Jesus Christ.

But you do not believe, ye of little faith.

 

[Red33]

About rebirth and illumination of the mind: The theory you say is correct, but most are only talking about it! Next. About the fact that God opens up a lot: a big question - Is it a revelation, even if it is a lot?
Third: The approach to God and filled with the Holy Spirit is necessary! Otherwise, you can not live! Believe in the written word is not enough, it must be alive inside the Spirit. If we say that it's all said, it is likely that we are in mental agriment, but not faith! Faith leads to the presence of God! Especially since there is great danger in believing the written word in our own way. Next. Miracles occur only when Нe wants and not when the people want.Next. I do not believe that you live to the full will of God, if only because you do not listen to the teachings of the Spirit! You're only talking about it! You do not know the anointing of the Spirit and you have a problem in the practical experience and knowledge of Christ within. You're a theorist, and live more by theology. You have a lot of knowledge (many of dubious origin), and the power of the Spirit does not have.

I know of individuals and have heard the testimony of many who attended Sunday School and services, early in their life, at the local church in their area growing up. They heard the written word preached and were told many of the stories in the Bible concerning God's great love and redemption through Christ. They had many opportunities to believe by faith, but for whatever reason, did not. Years later the Holy Spirit took what they had previously heard and brought light and conviction into a now fertile heart that received the word. They were saved and regenerated through the new birth or the word and Spirit.

God waited and wanted His word to be deposited into a fertile heart that had to be stirred up through the details of life and when that heart was ready the Holy Spirit took the written word that was already present and quickened the mind and heart of that individual with conviction. The written word played a vital role in producing a capacity within the heart to receive the grace of God for salvation. We should always put a premium upon the written word and never reduce it because the written word is what produces faith in the heart so that we can believe and the Holy Spirit can do His work.

 

[unclefester]

God waited and wanted His word to be deposited into a fertile heart that had to be stirred up through the details of life and when that heart was ready the Holy Spirit took the written word that was already present and quickened the mind and heart of that individual with conviction. The written word played a vital role in producing a capacity within the heart to receive the grace of God for salvation. We should always put a premium upon the written word and never reduce it because the written word is what produces faith in the heart so that we can believe and the Holy Spirit can do His work.

Red, Red, Red. There's a new and better way today. One can literally hear God speak to them. Matter of fact, if you truly had the Spirit of Christ within you, you'd know this. Don't get me wrong Red......the Word is something to be respected. But God's literal voice is better.....and it is there for all who are willing to believe. All one needs is "faith". Now excuse me while I go and practice speaking in tongues.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually, it is the other way around, and you should look in the mirror.

Yes, people get deceived, all the time. People hear voices in their heads which tell them to do awful things. Those who are born of God, who are born of the Spirit hear God's voice in their heart, and He does not tell them to do awful things, but things like feed the poor, and give to those who are hungry, and convictions like do not be angry, and do not be impatient, and above all, live in Jesus Christ.

But you do not believe, ye of little faith.

Quite amazing. All those things are said in scripture. It is funny how you say mock scripture. Yet everything you say God tells us is a quote out of scripture. Aren't you glad you have scripture so you could say those words of God?

 

[Red33]

Actually, it is the other way around, and you should look in the mirror.

Yes, people get deceived, all the time. People hear voices in their heads which tell them to do awful things. Those who are born of God, who are born of the Spirit hear God's voice in their heart, and He does not tell them to do awful things, but things like feed the poor, and give to those who are hungry, and convictions like do not be angry, and do not be impatient, and above all, live in Jesus Christ.

But you do not believe, ye of little faith.

VW,

I do not recall in any of your posts what you consider faith to be. What is the faith of the Son of God to you and how do we get the faith we need to believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation? When we are saved by grace through FAITH, what is meant by FAITH and does it have anything to do with the person of Christ? When Jesus said to the blind man in (Mt 9:28,29), 'Be it unto you according to your FAITH' and in (Mt 9:22) 'thy FAITH has made thee whole', what was this FAITH that Christ spoke of referring to?

How about the woman that entered into Simon's house, who anointed the feet of Jesus and whose sins were many? Jesus told her that she was forgiven and that her FAITH had saved her and to go in peace in (Lk 50: 44-50). Where did she get this FAITH and who did she direct it at, and who forgave her and told her that she was forgiven and to go in peace knowing that she would love much because she was forgiven much? Was she forgiven and saved at the same time? Yes! Is there any record that she had received the Spirit and spoke in tongues at that time she was saved? NO! Was her salvation real and from God and include forgiveness of all her sins? YES! Was her salvation from Christ that included the forgiveness of sins, the same salvation that we receive by grace through FAITH? YES! (Eph 1:7, Col 1:14)

 

[zone]

Many born again but do not live for a long time! So do not listen and believe that hearing is the knowledge of Scripture! What nonsense!

i'm stripping this back down to the bare bones. this is one of the most childish aspects of emergent stuff, but they insist we play patty-cake:

1) do you hear AUDIBLY from The Spirit, yes or no?

2) if YES, that means He speaks directly through your physical EARS.

3) what happens to the teaching you receive once you have HEARD it? ANYTHING? where does the information go from your physical ears - to the muscles in your chest that pumps blood?

4) if the Holy Spirit is speaking directly into your physical ears and you are listening and hearing a VOICE, He is next to you/surrounding you/above you/behind you....somewhere in your vicintity: does He follow you around all day talking into your ears?

~

before proceeding i need to know exactly how He speaks to you, and exactly how you hear, and above all, exactly what He says to you.

thank you.

 

[zone]

Actually, it is the other way around, and you should look in the mirror.

Yes, people get deceived, all the time. People hear voices in their heads which tell them to do awful things. Those who are born of God, who are born of the Spirit hear God's voice in their heart, and He does not tell them to do awful things, but things like feed the poor, and give to those who are hungry, and convictions like do not be angry, and do not be impatient, and above all, live in Jesus Christ.

But you do not believe, ye of little faith.

"Yes, people get deceived, all the time. People hear voices in their heads..." << but not you. NO, YOU ARE RECEIVING NEW REVELATION FROM JESUS CHRIST.

you're actually one of the most brazen heretics i've come across.
your conscience is apparently seared, your posts reek of hubris and delusion.

Anyone who has the gift of prophecy, or has been called as a prophet, will understand when I say that I did not want to make this post. But the voice of the Lord is not insistent, but rather quietly leading one to do as He wishes. I have from the Lord that I am not to answer critical words any more. So, in obedience to Him, hear these words or not.

In Christ

FIRST PERSON VERBATIM WARNINGS DIRECTLY FROM JESUS CHRIST ADDRESSED TO THE WORLD, GIVEN TO AND SPOKEN THROUGH THE PROPHET VW (an anonymous internet persona) APRIL 12, 2011.

"
The testing has started. The dross will be removed from the gold and silver. Those who will not come to Me will not get many more chances. Those who lie about Me will grow even harder in their hearts. Those who do not love Me will go astray, and stumble, and fall. And My servants will prevail, just as I prevailed.

I set a choice before you, with a question. Do you love Me? Will you follow Me? Will you become My servants? Or will you continue to love the knowledge of Me? Will you still follow what you believe? Will you still serve yourself and your pride? Will you live in Me?

Not all that you believe is from Me. And not all that you do is pleasing in My sight. And not all that you say or think is of faith. But My servants will not be so in the days to come. Everything they believe will be from Me, and they will speak My words, and they will do the things that are pleasing in My sight. And I will love them.

I hate your assemblies. I loath your offerings. I despise your service. Your prayers I do not hear, because they are for your own lusts. Your hands are dirty, and your lips have become numb. Your ears do not hear, nor do your eyes see. Who among you has a soft heart? Who is seeking truth in My Father's presence? Who has lost themselves for Me and to Me? Who has lost every other love, to know My love? Who has become My servant?

I am coming quickly. I am coming with a sword. I am coming to make war, to make an end, a complete ending of all the lies. I am coming to reward My servants, and to gather those who love My appearing. Will you be ashamed at My appearing, or will you have great joy? Either way, I am coming quickly.

http://christianchat.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=420670

 

[VW]

Quite amazing. All those things are said in scripture. It is funny how you say mock scripture. Yet everything you say God tells us is a quote out of scripture. Aren't you glad you have scripture so you could say those words of God?

Actually, what is amazing is that I am not quoting scripture, but the Holy Spirit who is speaking scripture in my heart. If anyone mocks scripture, it is not me. I just trust the One who gave scripture, rather than scripture itself. I understand that this distinction escapes most, but one day it will be very important.

So, yes, I am thankful for scripture, but I am much more grateful for the Holy Spirit who abides in me. Because of this, of His abiding in me, I know that Jesus abides in me. And by this I know that I am a child of God and not a child of the devil. And by this I know the love of God, I experience the love of God. And by this I hear His voice, in my heart, (which is where I quote scripture from,) and His convictions when I am pleasing Him, and when I am not, (which is one of the reasons I am not responding to several here, because I could not answer them and remain pleasing to my heavenly Father. In this case, it was more important that I learn and grow in Him so that one day I might be mature enough to give answer and still be pleasing in His sight.)

In Christ, by His Holy Spirit,
vic

 

[VW]

Red, Red, Red. There's a new and better way today. One can literally hear God speak to them. Matter of fact, if you truly had the Spirit of Christ within you, you'd know this. Don't get me wrong Red......the Word is something to be respected. But God's literal voice is better.....and it is there for all who are willing to believe. All one needs is "faith". Now excuse me while I go and practice speaking in tongues.

That would actually help you to grow into Jesus more than you know.

 

[zone]

VW,

I do not recall in any of your posts what you consider faith to be. What is the faith of the Son of God to you and how do we get the faith we need to believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation? When we are saved by grace through FAITH, what is meant by FAITH and does it have anything to do with the person of Christ? When Jesus said to the blind man in (Mt 9:28,29), 'Be it unto you according to your FAITH' and in (Mt 9:22) 'thy FAITH has made thee whole', what was this FAITH that Christ spoke of referring to?

How about the woman that entered into Simon's house, who anointed the feet of Jesus and whose sins were many? Jesus told her that she was forgiven and that her FAITH had saved her and to go in peace in (Lk 50: 44-50). Where did she get this FAITH and who did she direct it at, and who forgave her and told her that she was forgiven and to go in peace knowing that she would love much because she was forgiven much? Was she forgiven and saved at the same time? Yes! Is there any record that she had received the Spirit and spoke in tongues at that time she was saved? NO! Was her salvation real and from God and include forgiveness of all her sins? YES! Was her salvation from Christ that included the forgiveness of sins, the same salvation that we receive by grace through FAITH? YES! (Eph 1:7, Col 1:14)

the NEW BREED of SERVANT CLASS doesn't need FAITH - they've passed through an inexplicably restored VEIL into the Holy of Holies, and are commissioned to come back and TELL THE WORKERS what THE LORD is saying today.

FAITH is no longer required when you achieve SERVANT status and actually hold regular meetings with God IN PERSON. no, the NEW BREED has pleased God SO MUCH with their primitive faith, He is hauling them into the heavenlies and bypassing FAITH altogether:

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

what i'm unclear on is why The Lord decided not to REINSTITUTE SCRIBES with His N.A.R.....we have MILLIONS of His words just free-floating through the ether waves. i wonder why God is not the same today as He was yesterday...i suppose this means He will change tomorrow as well.

and since i refuse to listen to the new prophets, i guess i'm stuck reading an old book that passed its expiry date sometime this century and is simply no longer RELEVENT.

 

[Necto]

i'm stripping this back down to the bare bones. this is one of the most childish aspects of emergent stuff, but they insist we play patty-cake:

1) do you hear AUDIBLY from The Spirit, yes or no?

2) if YES, that means He speaks directly through your physical EARS.

3) what happens to the teaching you receive once you have HEARD it? ANYTHING? where does the information go from your physical ears - to the muscles in your chest that pumps blood?

4) if the Holy Spirit is speaking directly into your physical ears and you are listening and hearing a VOICE, He is next to you/surrounding you/above you/behind you....somewhere in your vicintity: does He follow you around all day talking into your ears?

~

before proceeding i need to know exactly how He speaks to you, and exactly how you hear, and above all, exactly what He says to you.

thank you.

I ask also thee, Jesus, Peter, Philip, Ananias and Paul heard of physically or spiritually? God created all things physical to show the invisible - the spiritual. For this reason I told you about the sound and voice to show the principle of these things. Physical ears to hear the voice of God would be extreme, and not necessarily!

 

[zone]

Actually, what is amazing is that I am not quoting scripture, but the Holy Spirit who is speaking scripture in my heart. If anyone mocks scripture, it is not me. I just trust the One who gave scripture, rather than scripture itself. I understand that this distinction escapes most, but one day it will be very important.

So, yes, I am thankful for scripture, but I am much more grateful for the Holy Spirit who abides in me. Because of this, of His abiding in me, I know that Jesus abides in me. And by this I know that I am a child of God and not a child of the devil. And by this I know the love of God, I experience the love of God. And by this I hear His voice, in my heart, (which is where I quote scripture from,) and His convictions when I am pleasing Him, and when I am not, (which is one of the reasons I am not responding to several here, because I could not answer them and remain pleasing to my heavenly Father. In this case, it was more important that I learn and grow in Him so that one day I might be mature enough to give answer and still be pleasing in His sight.)

In Christ, by His Holy Spirit,
vic

yes, it's all about YOU. and what you hear in "in your heart".

YOU are the important factor in God's Redemptive Plan, and your upon attentiveness to a VOICE in your heart hinges possibly the fate of the Chruch, since He speaks directly through you to her, and if you get ONE WORD OUT OF PLACE this would be VERY displeasing to God.

YOU ARE THE MEDIATOR BETWEEN CHRIST AND HIS CHURCH.

BTW: what's Jesus doing right now VW? gone fishing while you take over?

 

[Lifelike]

If we did not have scripture. You would not even Know Jesus. You would not know how to get saved, You would not know why you need saved. You would not know who Jesus is. You would not know what he did. Why he did it. Why God sent him to do it. You would be lost as would I. Yes scripture testifies of Jesus. That what scripture is about. In the beginning was the word. The word was God and the word was with God. The word is Jesus. Scripture is the word written by the HS which is all about Jesus, testifies of him. Tells us everything we need to know about him.

Why don't you get off your judgment seat. You have no right judging anyone when you dismiss scripture the way you do!

Yes but thank God God we have more than just a book. Thank God we have a living saviour and a real, tangible powerful relationship with Jesus. Jesus is more than just the word, he is the life. And He is God, who trancends this earthly realm, and is a God that we can know, because of the Holy Spirit within us.

 

[unclefester]

Actually, what is amazing is that I am not quoting scripture, but the Holy Spirit who is speaking scripture in my heart. If anyone mocks scripture, it is not me. I just trust the One who gave scripture, rather than scripture itself. I understand that this distinction escapes most, but one day it will be very important.

So, yes, I am thankful for scripture, but I am much more grateful for the Holy Spirit who abides in me. Because of this, of His abiding in me, I know that Jesus abides in me. And by this I know that I am a child of God and not a child of the devil. And by this I know the love of God, I experience the love of God. And by this I hear His voice, in my heart, (which is where I quote scripture from,) and His convictions when I am pleasing Him, and when I am not, (which is one of the reasons I am not responding to several here, because I could not answer them and remain pleasing to my heavenly Father. In this case, it was more important that I learn and grow in Him so that one day I might be mature enough to give answer and still be pleasing in His sight.)

In Christ, by His Holy Spirit,
vic

January 21st, 2011 VW

"The danger of a scripturally based faith"......THIS HEADER ALONE SPEAKS VOLUMES

Most of us believe, because of scripture, because of the testimony of scripture, because we can see the truth contained in scripture. And we are content to stand on this belief, and on the scripture which our belief is based upon. But what does this say to our God? Have we ever thought through to the end of what we believe and why? Where does this belief based upon the scripture lead, with what mind set, and with what kind of heart?

I never asked these questions, not for many years, until I was confronted with a simple and incontrovertible fact. I was not like Jesus, not in any way. And the longer I maintained the belief based as it was on scripture, I became less and less likely to become like Jesus. The image of who I was becoming was lost, and the hope of becoming like Him was at best, very faint. But, I believed more and more in the scripture, and placed my hope in the promises contained therein. I was in for a rude awakening.

When I believed because of scripture, and my understanding of scripture, I became a person who held God in a certain contempt. Oh, not intentional contempt, but contempt all the same. My thoughts naturally were, "If you promise to save me, then I believe that it is so, even though I see in the scripture that something else is needed, something I am not willing to give or endure." There is something else, hinted at in scripture. We become very good at ignoring what we do not wish to see, and even in this we lie to ourselves, with complete certainty that we know what we are doing. It is written in scripture that we are to work out our own salvation, in fear and trembling. But then, it gives us no instructions on how to do just that, and so we ignore it, and thus take another step on the path to destruction. (The path to salvation is very narrow, such that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle. The path to destruction is very wide.)

The very first thing we must learn is that our salvation is not for us. Yes, we benefit from being saved, from receiving eternal life, but that is not why God saves us. Who we are in this world dies as the result of the work of God in saving us from destruction. If we are holding ourselves up as worth anything at all in our own hearts, then we have not understood the complete and utter depravity of our old lives, and just how unsuited they are to God, to even be in His presence, much less to live and reign with Him for eternity. Our salvation is for God, because what He wants is what He will have, children in the exact image of His Son Jesus Christ. Nothing less will suffice. The entire creation is for this very purpose. In fact, the creation has been subjected to sin so that in the end, when the sons of God are revealed, all can glory in God.

But we do not even know Jesus. Why? Because we have a faith based upon scripture. Jesus is the exact representation of God's heart. One can only come to know another person's heart when they come to know them, personally. This is why Jesus said that His sheep hear His voice. He talks to His sheep, so they can come to know the One who loves them more than His own life, who gave Himself for them. His sheep hear His voice. This is the basis of their faith. And this faith is like the faith Abraham had, who heard the voice of the Lord and believed, and this belief was counted to him as righteousness.

Scripture based faith says to God, "You cannot tell me anything other than what is contained in the scriptures which I believe in and which have caused me to believe in You. You will not talk to me, because You have already said everything You want to say to me in the scriptures. Therefore, I reject any subjective experience as from the devil. Don't speak to me."

Sound familiar?

 

[zone]

That would actually help you to grow into Jesus more than you know.

Charles Fox Parham (4 June 1873 - c. 29 January 1929[1]) was an American preacher and evangelist. Together with William J. Seymour, Parham was one of the two central figures in the development and early spread of Pentecostalism. It was Parham that associated glossolalia with the baptism in the Holy Spirit, a theological connection crucial to the emergence of Pentecostalism as a distinct movement.[2] Parham continues to spark controversy, especially regarding his attitudes and beliefs on race.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Parham

 

[VW]

January 21st, 2011 VW

"The danger of a scripturally based faith"......THIS HEADER ALONE SPEAKS VOLUMES

Most of us believe, because of scripture, because of the testimony of scripture, because we can see the truth contained in scripture. And we are content to stand on this belief, and on the scripture which our belief is based upon. But what does this say to our God? Have we ever thought through to the end of what we believe and why? Where does this belief based upon the scripture lead, with what mind set, and with what kind of heart?

I never asked these questions, not for many years, until I was confronted with a simple and incontrovertible fact. I was not like Jesus, not in any way. And the longer I maintained the belief based as it was on scripture, I became less and less likely to become like Jesus. The image of who I was becoming was lost, and the hope of becoming like Him was at best, very faint. But, I believed more and more in the scripture, and placed my hope in the promises contained therein. I was in for a rude awakening.

When I believed because of scripture, and my understanding of scripture, I became a person who held God in a certain contempt. Oh, not intentional contempt, but contempt all the same. My thoughts naturally were, "If you promise to save me, then I believe that it is so, even though I see in the scripture that something else is needed, something I am not willing to give or endure." There is something else, hinted at in scripture. We become very good at ignoring what we do not wish to see, and even in this we lie to ourselves, with complete certainty that we know what we are doing. It is written in scripture that we are to work out our own salvation, in fear and trembling. But then, it gives us no instructions on how to do just that, and so we ignore it, and thus take another step on the path to destruction. (The path to salvation is very narrow, such that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle. The path to destruction is very wide.)

The very first thing we must learn is that our salvation is not for us. Yes, we benefit from being saved, from receiving eternal life, but that is not why God saves us. Who we are in this world dies as the result of the work of God in saving us from destruction. If we are holding ourselves up as worth anything at all in our own hearts, then we have not understood the complete and utter depravity of our old lives, and just how unsuited they are to God, to even be in His presence, much less to live and reign with Him for eternity. Our salvation is for God, because what He wants is what He will have, children in the exact image of His Son Jesus Christ. Nothing less will suffice. The entire creation is for this very purpose. In fact, the creation has been subjected to sin so that in the end, when the sons of God are revealed, all can glory in God.

But we do not even know Jesus. Why? Because we have a faith based upon scripture. Jesus is the exact representation of God's heart. One can only come to know another person's heart when they come to know them, personally. This is why Jesus said that His sheep hear His voice. He talks to His sheep, so they can come to know the One who loves them more than His own life, who gave Himself for them. His sheep hear His voice. This is the basis of their faith. And this faith is like the faith Abraham had, who heard the voice of the Lord and believed, and this belief was counted to him as righteousness.

Scripture based faith says to God, "You cannot tell me anything other than what is contained in the scriptures which I believe in and which have caused me to believe in You. You will not talk to me, because You have already said everything You want to say to me in the scriptures. Therefore, I reject any subjective experience as from the devil. Don't speak to me."

Sound familiar?

Yes, that is my testimony, part of it. The rest is not to be shared with you.

And in this, how have I discredited the bible? In no way at all. My misuse of scripture, absolutely. The way that I was taught to believe in scripture? Yes.

You judge me, based upon beliefs which you have and which I reject. These beliefs lead me into deep deception, and almost cost me my life in God. He was merciful to me, and revealed to me the error of my beliefs. For that I am eternally grateful, because He did not have to deliver me from my deceptions. He choose to do so.

That you ridicule this, is your loss, not mine. That I am disturbed by your ridicule is a loss for me, because I believe that if I was a better servant you would see rather than mock.

In Christ,
vic

 

[Lifelike]

i'm stripping this back down to the bare bones. this is one of the most childish aspects of emergent stuff, but they insist we play patty-cake:

1) do you hear AUDIBLY from The Spirit, yes or no?

2) if YES, that means He speaks directly through your physical EARS.

3) what happens to the teaching you receive once you have HEARD it? ANYTHING? where does the information go from your physical ears - to the muscles in your chest that pumps blood?

4) if the Holy Spirit is speaking directly into your physical ears and you are listening and hearing a VOICE, He is next to you/surrounding you/above you/behind you....somewhere in your vicintity: does He follow you around all day talking into your ears?

~

before proceeding i need to know exactly how He speaks to you, and exactly how you hear, and above all, exactly what He says to you.

thank you.

Dont you believe God can speak audibly? lol. I think most people that have heard God audibly would tell you that its not the only way he speaks. And for the majority it would be rarely the way He would speak. God has spoken to me powerfuly in many ways. I think one of the most common ways that He speaks is through His word, whether it be by revealing His nature and ways when you read it (Discernment of spirits) or simply giving you understanding that applies to your life, by that word. One of the functions of the Holy Spirit is to illuminate the word. The Holy Spirit may also speak to your spirit in the still small voice, or with a picture, or impress His heart upon you. Its a rare thing i think for God to speak audibly, but He can and does speak this way. And if He speaks, no matter how Chooses to do it, its gonna effect more than just your body.