Apostles, Prophets, Teachers,...

[VW]

All one has to do is look at the biblical definition of faith, and they would see that faith which comes from signs is really not faith. Because it is something you see or experience through senses. God is not calling us to this type of faith.

Hebrews 11: 1:
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The greek word translated seen is blepomenon. Which is translated to see, But there are other interpretations used by the greeks for this word.

d. univ. to perceive by the senses, to feel:
e. to discover by use, to know by experience:
2. metaph. to see with the mind’s eye;

so we can see Faith does not come by our senses. what we feel. Or supernatural signs and wonders. True faith comes from things we can not see, or percieve, or feel. It comes only from our hope. Our hope is in Christ and what he promised (eternal life) Anything else is not faith at all!

Hogwash!

Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession. He was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was in all His house. For He has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by just so much as the builder of the house has more honor than the house. For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God. Now Moses was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken later; but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end. Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,
"TODAY, IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME,
AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS,
WHERE YOUR FATHERS TRIED ME BY TESTING ME,
AND SAW MY WORKS FOR FORTY YEARS.
THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION,
' AND SAID, "THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART;
AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS;"
AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,
THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST."
Take care, brethren, lest there should be in any one of you and evil, unbelieving heart, in falling away from the living God, but encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end; while it is said,
"TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS,
AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME."
For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in he wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they should not enter His rest, but to those who sere disobedient? And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

Now you can say that they were guilty of unbelief for a lot of reasons, but the reason that is allowed for in this text is that they refused to hear His voice. The moment that the writer is signifying is the moment when God first spoke to the people from His holy mountain, the words of the first covenant, whereby they would be His people, and He would be their God. But the people answered Moses in fear that they did not want God to speak to them, lest they die. It would be okay if Moses spoke to them for God, but they could not allow themselves to believe that God would speak to them in a way that they could live.

Moses tried to talk the people out of their unbelief. But they would not listen even to Him.;

So, you call faith what you want to, but God has defined it for us, in the scriptures which you say you believe. But you do not believe, because if it does not agree with your beliefs which you already hold, then you must deny the truth which is plainly before you. You are just like those in the wilderness, who provoked God to wrath.

 

[zone]

All one has to do is look at the biblical definition of faith, and they would see that faith which comes from signs is really not faith. Because it is something you see or experience through senses. God is not calling us to this type of faith.

Hebrews 11: 1:
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

The greek word translated seen is blepomenon. Which is translated to see, But there are other interpretations used by the greeks for this word.

d. univ. to perceive by the senses, to feel:
e. to discover by use, to know by experience:
2. metaph. to see with the mind’s eye;

so we can see Faith does not come by our senses. what we feel. Or supernatural signs and wonders. True faith comes from things we can not see, or percieve, or feel. It comes only from our hope. Our hope is in Christ and what he promised (eternal life) Anything else is not faith at all!

i totally agree EG.
the righteousness that comes from God, that is not a righteousness of our own, comes from outside ourselves, comes from the Only One who is able to justify the ungodly, the Only One who is able to declare a sinner justified.

and on what grounds does He do this?

that the sinner BELIEVES what God has revealed about the sinner (Law), and BELIEVES what God has performed in Jesus Christ (The Gospel).

the FAITH to believe is a GIFT from God.

that GIFT from God will always be built up on the foundation, and strengthened by the Promises made, testified to in the holy scriptures and affirmed by the Holy Spirit - ALL ABOUT CHRIST ALONE.

if signs and wonders follow, this is God's sovereign decision. if they do not, it CHANGES NOTHING.

PEACE through the reconciliation won by Christ on the Cross is the ONLY SIGN required, all to be desired.

 

[silverwind]

Hogwash!

Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession. He was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was in all His house. For He has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by just so much as the builder of the house has more honor than the house. For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God. Now Moses was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken later; but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end. Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,
"TODAY, IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME,
AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS,
WHERE YOUR FATHERS TRIED ME BY TESTING ME,
AND SAW MY WORKS FOR FORTY YEARS.
THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION,
' AND SAID, "THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART;
AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS;"
AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,
THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST."
Take care, brethren, lest there should be in any one of you and evil, unbelieving heart, in falling away from the living God, but encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end; while it is said,
"TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS,
AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME."
For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in he wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they should not enter His rest, but to those who sere disobedient? And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

Now you can say that they were guilty of unbelief for a lot of reasons, but the reason that is allowed for in this text is that they refused to hear His voice. The moment that the writer is signifying is the moment when God first spoke to the people from His holy mountain, the words of the first covenant, whereby they would be His people, and He would be their God. But the people answered Moses in fear that they did not want God to speak to them, lest they die. It would be okay if Moses spoke to them for God, but they could not allow themselves to believe that God would speak to them in a way that they could live.

Moses tried to talk the people out of their unbelief. But they would not listen even to Him.;

So, you call faith what you want to, but God has defined it for us, in the scriptures which you say you believe. But you do not believe, because if it does not agree with your beliefs which you already hold, then you must deny the truth which is plainly before you. You are just like those in the wilderness, who provoked God to wrath.

VW, it's really not appropriate to call out 'hogwash' to anyone concerning their posts. There are kinder ways to respond if one is in disagreemant. If we talk about the love of Christ in here and at the same time shout out rude words in our posts we are not setting a good example to those that read our posts who are not saved. Just sayin....

SW

 

[AnandaHya]

faith and hearing the voice of the Holy Spirit are two different but related topics.

1. Faith for salvation and eternal life through Jesus Christ:

Galatians 3:14
that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

2. hearing the voice of God/ not harden your heart in disobedience:

Psalm 95:7-12
New King James Version (NKJV)

7 For He is our God,
And we are the people of His pasture,
And the sheep of His hand.

Today, if you will hear His voice:
8 “Do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion,[a]
As in the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 When your fathers tested Me;
They tried Me, though they saw My work.
10 For forty years I was grieved with that generation,
And said, ‘It is a people who go astray in their hearts,
And they do not know My ways.’
11 So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest.’ ”

one speaks of SALVATION. the other of justification and santification of saints.

Salvation happens upon belief and confession of Jesus Christ as Lord and savior in the heart and by the mouth.

Santification happens every day unto death and rest in Heaven...why confuse and combine the two topics?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hogwash!

Oh so scripture does lie?? No wonder you do not take it seriously and talk down on it.

If scripture can not be trusted what Can??

Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession. He was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was in all His house. For He has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by just so much as the builder of the house has more honor than the house. For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God. Now Moses was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken later; but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end. Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,
"TODAY, IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME,
AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS,
WHERE YOUR FATHERS TRIED ME BY TESTING ME,
AND SAW MY WORKS FOR FORTY YEARS.
THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION,
' AND SAID, "THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART;
AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS;"
AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,
THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST."
Take care, brethren, lest there should be in any one of you and evil, unbelieving heart, in falling away from the living God, but encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," lest any one of you be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end; while it is said,
"TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS,
AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME."
For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in he wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they should not enter His rest, but to those who sere disobedient? And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

Ok great passage on hearing God. and not having faith in it. or hardening ones heart.

Why did they not have faith? Scripture shows why.

1. They did not believe God when he said he had a better place for them (things unseen) They wanted to Go back to being slaves

2. They did not believe in the one unseen God. they wanted the ones which could be seen (golden calf and other idols they wanted to worship which they could see)'

3. They had no hope. because they could not see what God had in store for them, despite all God was doing for them (signs and miracles)

No hope in the things unseen meant they did not believe God, nor have faith in him.

end result? They had no hope, thus they wanted to go back to slavery, because they thought they had it better (thus hardened their hearts, and beyond all signs and miracles and everything God did for them, they could not believe it) This is what a hardened heart is.

This passage completely supports scriptures claim in hebrews 11 which says faith is the substance e of things hoped for. things which CAN NOT BE SEEN.

Hogwash you say??

Now you can say that they were guilty of unbelief for a lot of reasons, but the reason that is allowed for in this text is that they refused to hear His voice. The moment that the writer is signifying is the moment when God first spoke to the people from His holy mountain, the words of the first covenant, whereby they would be His people, and He would be their God. But the people answered Moses in fear that they did not want God to speak to them, lest they die. It would be okay if Moses spoke to them for God, but they could not allow themselves to believe that God would speak to them in a way that they could live.

Do you even know what a "hardened heart" is? It is when one hears or sees something, but they do not believe it no matter how much proof they are given. They can't hear because they refuse to hear. Not because they don't. They hear alright. They just refuse to understand.. why? Because they have no faith. why? They wanted proof of which they could see and feel. Not things which could not be seen. They rejected that because they had no evidence. Which is exactly what Hebrews says.

Moses tried to talk the people out of their unbelief. But they would not listen even to Him.;

Of course not. because they had no hope. because they did not believe Moses or God Because they could not see it. Thus they could not have faith.

So, you call faith what you want to, but God has defined it for us, in the scriptures which you say you believe. But you do not believe, because if it does not agree with your beliefs which you already hold, then you must deny the truth which is plainly before you. You are just like those in the wilderness, who provoked God to wrath.

I gave you the biblical definition of faith. You reject it because it does not fit your belief system. Thats fine. Thats your right. But keep your hogwashes to yourself. Because you did not prove (to me anyway) your point. You gave me your opinion. and it was shown to me to be lacking substance because I don't see how you understand the true meanings of the words faith and a hardened heart.

 

[zone]

So u believe He can but He doesnt, because this kind of thing was only for the first century apostles and prophets. Of which you have no proof.

2/ I have never personally heard Him speak audibly. Although I would love to! The closest to this was not long after I was born again. when I was 19 years old. I was working as a kitchen hand, in a major Casino, and i was cleaning some pots at the pot wash area. I heard in my spirit the word "manifest". It was probably more than what i would call the still small voice, it was loud on the inside of me, and seemed to come out from the inside of me. I had never experienced this before. Straight afetr hearing this I heard the word "manifested". I did not know what the word meant at the time, it was not a word that I had in my vocabulary, but I knew it was God, and came from my spirit. I then had an experience for the rest of my shift (I was on the graveyard shift 11pm-7am) where it became really obvious to me the motives of people. People that I had known for some time and who were aquintances who were quite friendly to me I saw were not my friends and were not what they were professing. I looked down at a magazine that one of them were reading and could see in the peoples eyes in this gossip magazine that some were quite evil. (I was discerning spirits). This experience also happened at my conversion - being able to see spirits in people. I didnt know what this all was in the beginning, as I had not reference to it, and only found out many years later what was happening.

At the end of my shift I has offered a lift home from my work collegue, who was also a christian, although he was back in the world and not following God. I said no, ill be fine (I usually walked home which was a 2 hr walk) but then felt that I was meant to go with Him. As we approached his car in the car park I felt to tell him what had happened to me, but i was a little hesitant because I didnt know what he would think of me. When i told him he went white, as the blood drained from his face, and he told me that he knew what manifest meant. And that it meant that demons can manifest, and that when they did they where able to be seen, instead of being hidden. I was in wonder at all of this, as well as everything I was experiencing in God, It was sooooo cool i thought.

As we drove toward my house it became obvious that my friend was quite disturbed and afraid - probably due to the way he was currectly living his life, and the reality of the spiritual realm crashing back to him. We pulled up in my driveway, and he told me that he wanted to rededicate his life to Christ and asked whether I would lead him in a prayer of rededication. I said I dont know what to pray - ive never done this before, but ill try.. (I was a very new christian of about 3 weeks.) We closed our eyes and I began to pray. I prayed things i never knew, and I led him in a pray that astonished both of us. Because of the flow of it, the content, and the spiritual dynamic present. He thanked me, and was overwhelmed and happy, and left.

I was extremely excited and rejoicing and walked quickly up my driveway and into my house. As i walked through my dining room toward the toilet, I felt God speak to me in such a powerful way that to this day it remains one of the most amazing experiences Ive had as a christian. Each word seem to explode from the centre of my being and it felt lie every cell in my body was vibrating and living because of that voice, each word boomed from my spirit with massive force. To this day I dont know what was said. Sorry zone - either your theology is wrong or maybe I didnt listen and remember like i should, or maybe it wasnt even about that. I was so affirmed that i knew without a doubt that I was His. As I approached the toilet and was about to do my business (excuse the vulgarity but its what happened) I felt what felt like a physical hand on my head and head this same voice calling me son.

End of story..

i have strikingly similar experiences in my history.

nearly identical, and all the christian i know who are truthful when expressing their spiritual experiences particularly at conversion describe the same things: the scales from from the eyes and the world seen for what it is....affirmation after leading someone to Calvary and seeing them converted....but you can not just go fishing in Corinthians and Acts and pull out the specific gift "discerning spirits" (or the other gifts) and call it what you experienced.

your testimony above is very cool, and is common to us when we now see the kingdom of darkness we have been translated from, and are led by the Spirit - every renegerated soul is led by the Spirit. natural man is not.

this is where the emergents and NAR make a whole doctrine about "walking in the Spirit" and that applying to themselves, while their lesser "brethren" stumble around in carnality. there are NO CARNAL CHRISTIANS. you are either born again and led of the Spirit or you are unregenerate.

ALSO: this thread is about PROPHETS AND APOSTLES, their roles, and specifically NEW REVELATION.

3/ Yes I have heard one of my leader say he has heard the audible voice of God numerous times.

what qualifies him to be your leader?
can you tell us what God told him? is it personal revelation or for the church?

if its for the church, where can i read it?

Everyone I know at church "operates in the prophetic" to some degree or another,.

what a ridiculous phrase.

and have all experienced the power of God in a tangible way. I dont really care what you believe, they are my family. Its about what I believe when it comes to them. Your opinion doesnt count thank God. .

this is so very true.

my "opinion" however matches those in what the mystics and emergents and NAR like Wagnr call devil-controlled religious spirit dead churches.
but what does your 'family' of Prophets and Apostles do?

is it the Seven Mountains thing?

Dominionism? taking the planet for Christ before He returns?
you do realize that can't be found anywhere in any form in the word, and is not revealed as God's Plan at all?

I agree that the 12 apostles laid the foundation. With Christ as the chief cornerstone They where personal witnesses of Christ chosen by Him to declare what they had seen. The foundation of the temple of God needs to have as part of it the witness of those that saw the things that happened. And the fact that there are 12, that alll bare the same witness in irrefutable. Solid foundation. The prophets of the old covenant foresaw, the first apostles beheld Him in the present. This is an unshakable foundation. This foundation is not relaid. ever..

AMEN.
so why does he need to send more prophets and apostles (which HE NEVER SAID HE WOULD DO)?

Concerning you demand of miracles to support my message, I havent personally preached Christ to the lost for a long time like I used to, and that does bother me, but when I did as a young christian, God manifested Himself in many ways continuously in healings, salvations, visions, prophetic utterance, words of knowledge, deliverance from demons, and the list goes on. I experienced these things by the power of God before I even knew what they were, and over the years these experiences have been defined to me through the understanding of the word I now have..

do you agree that much what others describe in the same way is considered by mainstream christianity to be heretical and demonic? (Asuza, Toronto, Pensacola, etc)?

if so, exactly HOW are we to determine which is which?

for example: these two foundational gifts you describe this way had a specific purpose: "prophetic utterance, words of knowledge" those gifts ceased when they were no longer needed, and were partial.

what prophetic utterances and words of knowledge have you been given you believe are genuine?

I do know that God has worked an amazing work in me, and I have developed into a person I never thought possible. From a yound broken, abused, hopeless insecure little boy, into a man that knows God, and is full of wisdom and great treasure, all of which I can only attribute to my glorious saviour Jesus Christ and His abilty to truly redeem and glorify Himself in His saints. And I give Him all the Glory.

AMEN.

does that tell us he has reinstituted the offices of prophet and apostle?
in fact: please FIND A SINGLE PASSAGE where God said He would do that....(try to avoid using the dispensational GAP theory which takes Joel out of context, allows it touch down briefly at Pentecost, but then has it skipping for its fulfillment 1900 years into the future...TO TODAY - SURPRISE!).

All these years have been for preparation for what is to come. And i look forward to being released again to work the works of God in His power. So exciting.

what do you mean "for what is to come."? i hope you'll expand on this because the answer will be the ground on which justification for the entire movement stands or falls, provided i know where you're going with this.

"being released again to work the works of God in His power"....????

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i totally agree EG.
the righteousness that comes from God, that is not a righteousness of our own, comes from outside ourselves, comes from the Only One who is able to justify the ungodly, the Only One who is able to declare a sinner justified.

and on what grounds does He do this?

that the sinner BELIEVES what God has revealed about the sinner (Law), and BELIEVES what God has performed in Jesus Christ (The Gospel).

the FAITH to believe is a GIFT from God.

that GIFT from God will always be built up on the foundation, and strengthened by the Promises made, testified to in the holy scriptures and affirmed by the Holy Spirit - ALL ABOUT CHRIST ALONE.

if signs and wonders follow, this is God's sovereign decision. if they do not, it CHANGES NOTHING.

PEACE through the reconciliation won by Christ on the Cross is the ONLY SIGN required, all to be desired.

Yes! Why is faith a gift?

If Christ did not die for us (something we did not see) we would not be able to have eternal life (something we also can not see) and know we will spend eternity in heaven (something we also can not see) and thus would have nothing to have faith in. As scripture says;

In the hope of eternal life, which God, who can not lie, promised before time began.

This is our hope. This is our faith. Without this hope. we can have no faith.

 

[zone]

LISTEN UP FAITHFUL CHURCH:

what do these two emergent PROPHETS have in common in these posts?

As do I. I know in my spirit that God is preparing us for His work, that is soon to be needed.
vic

All these years have been for preparation for what is to come. And i look forward to being released again to work the works of God in His power. So exciting.

take a very good look.
keep watching for this language.
follow it to its source.

 

[zone]

Zone you might have forgotten he is supposedly have us on "ignore" and can't read our words.

that is how the "spirit" tells him to love his brothers and sisters <shrugs>

1) he's not truthful in the big things, why expect truth in the small things?

2) i don't consider myself in fellowship with false prophets.

 

[zone]

Unclefester,

You know, there will be people that read what was posted and in their spirit they will witness that it is truth, but will never confirm the truth through faith and they go on believing what they believe, even if it contradicts that witness of truth they received (Rom 8:16, 9:1, 1Jn 5:6,10a). They may use a prior experience to validate what they believe contrary to what is witnessed in their spirit. I have always wondered why that is because God is a faithful witness (Rev 1:5, 1Cor 1:9,10) and desires that we walk in truth (3Jn 1:4). But there is something in the heart that does not allow for them to confirm the truth that the Holy Spirit has witnessed to their spirit. Is it prejudice, is it pride, is it the flesh, is it a carnal mind, is it denominational thinking through preference, is it a combination of some of these or something else? There seems to be some kind of thinking that we get yoked up with that only the anointing of God can break (Is 10:27). If this yoke is not broken by the anointing then the body of Christ will not be edified and come to the unity of the faith in the will of God (Eph 4:13, 1Cor 1:10).

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

Acts 20:30
Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.

1 Corinthians 11:19
No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval.

 

[zone]

do you still speak to people about how JESUS saves? salvation takes a few steps.

1. hearing the word of faith preached
2. believing in your heart unto righteousness
3. confessing with your mouth unto salvation

can't really take away the first steps and jump to the whole "Listen to God in your heart thing" The Holy Spirit is a gift God grants after salvation/confession is made.

they are all the same event: all three are gifts from God given to the man He has DRAGGED TO CHRIST.

but the NEW BREED is of a different class. they have arranged their own salvation, they have arranged their sanctification and have taken offices and mantles unto themselves. they are now 'in charge' of the Church.

the great irony in all of it, is if they had known the Plan of God and what He has revealed clearly in scripture, they would not have picked Door #2.

but Door #2 has perks that some men can't resist.

what they don't realize is that the victory God gave Gideon over the medes is going to be much like the fate of these: they're doing themselves and each other in.

 

[zone]

You want to ask me whether these passages the word of God? Yes! This revelation given by the Holy Spirit to the Apostle Paul. This acknowledgments the Holy Spirit. The entire Bible is the written Word of God. But without the Spirit is the only commandment and more! People can not fulfill them! Scripture is not performed by people but by the power of the Spirit, that is, Christ.

hi necto.
no, i wondered if you understood this part:

John 3:5
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

Ezekiel 26:36
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

Ephesians 5:26
to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word...

1 Corinthians 6:11
And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

John 15:3
You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

 

[zone]

Hogwash!
So, you call faith what you want to, but God has defined it for us, in the scriptures which you say you believe. But you do not believe, because if it does not agree with your beliefs which you already hold, then you must deny the truth which is plainly before you. You are just like those in the wilderness, who provoked God to wrath.

what irony.
as usual, you reach back in time to prophesies spoken to Israel, reiterated as warnings to them in Hebrews (to NOT shrink back to Judaism and The Law), you see the word VOICE and tuck it into your pouch from which you roll your own theology. that together with "drawing near to God" and that's your soteriology.

you prophesy wrath on the church when the scriptures say those who believe that Christ has died for them and was raised for them and are justified by Grace are not appointed to wrath.

yet you yourself are fearful.

2 Timothy 1:7
for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control

1 Thessalonians 1:10
and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead--Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:1
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,

a month or so ago you didn't even know if the church was going through the tribulation (don't know what you believe now), which isn't God's wrath anyways.

not much of a prophetic gift if you can't understand the prophesies already given.

 

[Necto]

hi necto.
no, i wondered if you understood this part:

John 3:5
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

Ezekiel 26:36
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

Ephesians 5:26
to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word...

1 Corinthians 6:11
And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

John 15:3
You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

Conclusions ,unsaid!

 

[Lifelike]

i have strikingly similar experiences in my history.

nearly identical, and all the christian i know who are truthful when expressing their spiritual experiences particularly at conversion describe the same things: the scales from from the eyes and the world seen for what it is....affirmation after leading someone to Calvary and seeing them converted....but you can not just go fishing in Corinthians and Acts and pull out the specific gift "discerning spirits" (or the other gifts) and call it what you experienced..

You obviously havent experienced a spiritual gift then, when it turns on you really know about it. What you are describing above could be a very non spiritual, natural earthly experience.

your testimony above is very cool, and is common to us when we now see the kingdom of darkness we have been translated from, and are led by the Spirit - every renegerated soul is led by the Spirit. natural man is not.

this is where the emergents and NAR make a whole doctrine about "walking in the Spirit" and that applying to themselves, while their lesser "brethren" stumble around in carnality. there are NO CARNAL CHRISTIANS. you are either born again and led of the Spirit or you are unregenerate..

Id have to disagree with you there, carnal christian are those that follow their natural lusts rather than their spiritual. Paul speaks about these kind of christians. We still have 2 natures as a christian, depending on which we follow will result in being either a spiritual or carnal christian.

ALSO: this thread is about PROPHETS AND APOSTLES, their roles, and specifically NEW REVELATION

I was just answering your questions

what qualifies him to be your leader?
can you tell us what God told him? is it personal revelation or for the church?

if its for the church, where can i read it?

God qualifies, and chooses, calls, saves, delivers, equips, empowers and sets in place his chosen. Revelation is the birthright of the Spirit filled believer.

what a ridiculous phrase. (Operating in the prophetic)

Would you prefer functioning in the gift of prophecy (but the prophetic is much more than the gift of prophecy, there is prophetic nature, and many complex dynamics to being a prophetic person.) It only seems ridiculous because you know nothing about it.

my "opinion" however matches those in what the mystics and emergents and NAR like Wagnr call devil-controlled religious spirit dead churches.
but what does your 'family' of Prophets and Apostles do?

How dare you speak as though its a family of twisted macarb inbred freaks, (imply by your inverted commas) its like me mocking your natural family. All human beings know by nature the sanctity of family and the closeness of the love shared between the members (even in dysfunctional ones), so if your going to attack on that level you might want to be careful zone. Your stepping on dangerous ground.

is it the Seven Mountains thing?

I have no idea what your talking about

so why does he need to send more prophets and apostles (which HE NEVER SAID HE WOULD DO)?

He never said that the office of Apostle or Prophet ceased or was to cease after the 12.

for example: these two foundational gifts you describe this way had a specific purpose: "prophetic utterance, words of knowledge" those gifts ceased when they were no longer needed, and were partial.

You misinterpreted that scripture. That which is in part is done away with when that which is complete has come. This takes place when this ungodly mess of a place is restored and when we are known by him and we know him fully. So simple mistake on your part applying this scripture to mean that when the canon was put together these things end - that is ridiculous.

what prophetic utterances and words of knowledge have you been given you believe are genuine?

All of them. to many to go into tonight (its 5 am ive worked all night and i have a flu.)

what do you mean "for what is to come."? i hope you'll expand on this because the answer will be the ground on which justification for the entire movement stands or falls, provided i know where you're going with this.

The church is going to be released into unprecedented power and intimacy with God, The one world government will be set up, religious oppression will increase massively, as the power of anti christ fully takes a grip on this world and all of its structures and systems, to persecute the people of God, and control everything. We are in the time of the end, and I would not be surprised if we are here to see it. ( i know this is a crude reply but i dont have time to go into depth - the world government stuff is obvious, but the future of the church here on earth I would like to go into with much greater depth, but not for you zone, because I know you hate everything i stand for, i only respond to you so that others can see the truth.

"being released again to work the works of God in His power"....????

God does things in seasons, sometimes we are hidden to be developed, sometimes we are used openly with all that God has done and is doing on display.

 

[Lifelike]

LISTEN UP FAITHFUL CHURCH:

what do these two emergent PROPHETS have in common in these posts?





take a very good look.
keep watching for this language.
follow it to its source.

Im not "emergent" anything.

God prepares His people. He is the great equipper of the saints, I dont think you are aware of the seriousness of the times we are entering. "For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again." Matt 24:21 You would want to hope your prepared.
And if you are, then every situation you find yourself in you will be more than equipped to handle.

 

[zone]

Conclusions ,unsaid!

those passages just dispense with the idea that the word and the Spirit are separable. they're not.
i don't care if somebody's been a christian for a thousand years, they are inseparable.

and neither one requires a literal voice.

 

[zone]

You obviously havent experienced a spiritual gift then, when it turns on you really know about it. What you are describing above could be a very non spiritual, natural earthly experience..

LOL!
what i was "describing above could be a very non spiritual, natural earthly experience", but yours is divine?

give me a break.

i'm fully equipped with all the gifts i need.

Id have to disagree with you there, carnal christian are those that follow their natural lusts rather than their spiritual. Paul speaks about these kind of christians. We still have 2 natures as a christian, depending on which we follow will result in being either a spiritual or carnal christian

really?
and in your world charismatic activity is spirituality, and non-charismatics are carnal?
do we have charismatics who have received gifts but remain carnal?

God qualifies, and chooses, calls, saves, delivers, equips, empowers and sets in place his chosen.

but you just said:

Id have to disagree with you there, carnal christian are those that follow their natural lusts rather than their spiritual. Paul speaks about these kind of christians. We still have 2 natures as a christian, depending on which we follow will result in being either a spiritual or carnal christian

so, does He or desn't He?

Revelation is the birthright of the Spirit filled believer.

ummm.....chapter & verses on that one if possible?
where can i find a close match to that in scripture?

Would you prefer functioning in the gift of prophecy (but the prophetic is much more than the gift of prophecy, there is prophetic nature, and many complex dynamics to being a prophetic person.) It only seems ridiculous because you know nothing about it..

i'd personally prefer that people stop lying about "the prophetic". but hey! they won't.

i know plenty about it LL.

plenty.

How dare you speak as though its a family of twisted macarb inbred freaks, (imply by your inverted commas) its like me mocking your natural family...

settle down man.
the quotation marks were to highlight that someone claims to belong to a family of prophets and apostles.

All human beings know by nature the sanctity of family and the closeness of the love shared between the members (even in dysfunctional ones), so if your going to attack on that level you might want to be careful zone. Your stepping on dangerous ground. ...

attack?
don't be ridiculous.
if it acts and sounds like a cult it is.

You misinterpreted that scripture. That which is in part is done away with when that which is complete has come. This takes place when this ungodly mess of a place is restored and when we are known by him and we know him fully. So simple mistake on your part applying this scripture to mean that when the canon was put together these things end - that is ridiculous..

no mistake - you bought into a scam.

and the NAR are going about fixing this ungodly place before Christ comes? is that how its going down?

All of them. to many to go into tonight (its 5 am ive worked all night and i have a flu.)..

i'm interested in the ones delivered to the Church.
we should all be i reckon.

The church is going to be released into unprecedented power and intimacy with God.

chapter & verse please?

the church "released"?

the church and christians are going into captivity and will fall by the sword - what Bible are you rea....oh ya....you're getting NEW INFORMATION.

this is your ground, your foundation, your reason for this restoration of these offices: please expand on what this is prophesied to look like.

The one world government will be set up, religious oppression will increase massively, as the power of anti christ fully takes a grip on this world and all of its structures and systems, to persecute the people of God, and control everything. We are in the time of the end, and I would not be surprised if we are here to see it..

but you just said:

The church is going to be released into unprecedented power and intimacy with God.

but the future of the church here on earth I would like to go into with much greater depth, but not for you zone, because I know you hate everything i stand for, i only respond to you so that others can see the truth..

ya not for me...whatever.
please do respond, because its about time the church got to find out what God's NEW end game is.

btw: i'm not a prophet - but i'll bet i can make a far more accurate assessement than you will - your whole team together.

God does things in seasons, sometimes we are hidden to be developed, sometimes we are used openly with all that God has done and is doing on display.

why do you have to make things up to justify what you are doing?
show me scripture (don't use JOEL unless you can PROVE it didn't find its fulfillment at Pentecost).

 

[VW]

If you cannot hear the voice of Jesus, then you are not one of His sheep.

If you are not one of His sheep, then you just are not saved.

I do not say this, but scripture, quoting Jesus Himself.

I have nothing else to say to you, eternally grateful, on this matter. There is no good which comes from arguing with the reprobate minded person. So you go on my ignore list also.

 

[Lifelike]

Lol all you do is critisize zone. Ive never seen a positive thing come out of your mouth. I think they call it a "hater" these days lol. Maybe you should start a post on love or something just to show us all you actually have a heart? Lol. Or would you only be able to post an endless stream of scriptures on love because anything else would be "new revelation" haha could you tell us how those scriptures apply to our hearts and our lives, who this God is that loves us, how he picks us up from our disapointments and our failings (in real time) or is that just some kind of "corinthian" delusion and we just need to read the bible and forget about the possiblity that God really does still relate to His bride like He has in every second of History from creation up until the end of the "apostolic age"?