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I am reminded of this great words from Christ.
Matt 16: 4 4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas
We live in that wicked and aduterous generation.
Then again. I forgot. scripture is not Gods word. so we should not heed its warnings. Right??
Matt 16: 4 4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas
We live in that wicked and aduterous generation.
Then again. I forgot. scripture is not Gods word. so we should not heed its warnings. Right??
or, Matthew could have made an error when recording the Lord's words...(?)
i guess we have no way of knowing.
WHO CARES anyways?
now THIS is in "the spirit" (slain, no less).
A
you people? I think you need to go take some time with Jesus.
God ways is not our ways and it is beyond people's faith or lack of it.
I'm just reminding you of some stories where doubt and unbelief makes no difference next to God's love.
Mark 4
35 On the same day, when evening had come, He said to them, “Let us cross over to the other side.” 36 Now when they had left the multitude, they took Him along in the boat as He was. And other little boats were also with Him. 37 And a great windstorm arose, and the waves beat into the boat, so that it was already filling. 38 But He was in the stern, asleep on a pillow. And they awoke Him and said to Him, “Teacher, do You not care that we are perishing?”
39 Then He arose and rebuked the wind, and said to the sea, “Peace, be still!” And the wind ceased and there was a great calm. 40 But He said to them, “Why are you so fearful? How is it that you have no faith?”[d]
I actually like you Ramon so I speak as I would to my little brothers when I recommend you take some time to go to the Lord in prayer and hear His voice. You are getting involved in things that go beyond just your words. Take a few steps back and pray about it all and see. anyway, I'm going to take my own advice and trust in the Lord to deal with all this for in the end it is in His hands.
May the Lord bless those truly seeking for His truth, May His love and peace be felt in the hearts of all His children. Thank you Lord for You many blessings and may Your name be glorified. In Jesus name we pray, amen.
God ways is not our ways and it is beyond people's faith or lack of it.
I'm just reminding you of some stories where doubt and unbelief makes no difference next to God's love.
Mark 4
35 On the same day, when evening had come, He said to them, “Let us cross over to the other side.” 36 Now when they had left the multitude, they took Him along in the boat as He was. And other little boats were also with Him. 37 And a great windstorm arose, and the waves beat into the boat, so that it was already filling. 38 But He was in the stern, asleep on a pillow. And they awoke Him and said to Him, “Teacher, do You not care that we are perishing?”
39 Then He arose and rebuked the wind, and said to the sea, “Peace, be still!” And the wind ceased and there was a great calm. 40 But He said to them, “Why are you so fearful? How is it that you have no faith?”[d]
I actually like you Ramon so I speak as I would to my little brothers when I recommend you take some time to go to the Lord in prayer and hear His voice. You are getting involved in things that go beyond just your words. Take a few steps back and pray about it all and see. anyway, I'm going to take my own advice and trust in the Lord to deal with all this for in the end it is in His hands.
May the Lord bless those truly seeking for His truth, May His love and peace be felt in the hearts of all His children. Thank you Lord for You many blessings and may Your name be glorified. In Jesus name we pray, amen.
E
or, Matthew could have made an error when recording the Lord's words...(?)
i guess we have no way of knowing.
WHO CARES anyways?
now THIS is in "the spirit" (slain, no less).
i guess we have no way of knowing.
WHO CARES anyways?
now THIS is in "the spirit" (slain, no less).
Then again, Scripture is not trustworthy so i guess we should not believe this. and believe Jesus did this alot (he did work by the power of the HS) and thus to ward off any excuses that the day of pentecost had not come yet. jesus was the example of the gifts which would be given to the apostles.
I have witnessed many healings. The greatest one was when a close frined was told she had spots on her lungs and emphasima., and given a short time to live. About ten of us gathered together at our home church and prayed for her (she was not even present) The next time she went to the doctors. The spots were gone and so was the amphasima.
This was powerful. No one could claim credit. All knew it was from God. No one made any money. No one could do anything but praise God. A few people even grew stronger in their faith because of it. This is the way God works. Not by "slaying the spirit" Nonsense..
A
and that is the key of the disagreement. before people start shooting off in words, I suggest that people research what is being objected to and what is being supported.
Most on this site would NOT deny that God works and heals people today as the above example illustrates, what most have objection to is the false prophets and people who make money and claims that go against the Bible. who try to use people and twist scripture to fit their whims and grasping for power.
i just wished people would read the words written instead of adding things to it that is not intended and cared enough to actually read over their words and pray about it before posting. I'm not even sure if I'll post this.....people are too easily offended and too long to forgive past hurts. Makes Jesus words even more meaningful when He asked how long must I suffer thee....
Most on this site would NOT deny that God works and heals people today as the above example illustrates, what most have objection to is the false prophets and people who make money and claims that go against the Bible. who try to use people and twist scripture to fit their whims and grasping for power.
i just wished people would read the words written instead of adding things to it that is not intended and cared enough to actually read over their words and pray about it before posting. I'm not even sure if I'll post this.....people are too easily offended and too long to forgive past hurts. Makes Jesus words even more meaningful when He asked how long must I suffer thee....
A
Wow, I just read the last 2 days of this thread and found one common tactic and one unbelievable statement.
Tactic: if theres a disagreement about spirituals its becuase you Dont Have the Spirit and for sure not any discernment.
Next the mindblowing statement: The Spirit gave discernment to see where the prophets were in the Spirit and in the flesh.
Wow, that one is the most dangerous ones ive heard for along time. Maybe i misunderstood. If not....hmmm
Tactic: if theres a disagreement about spirituals its becuase you Dont Have the Spirit and for sure not any discernment.
Next the mindblowing statement: The Spirit gave discernment to see where the prophets were in the Spirit and in the flesh.
Wow, that one is the most dangerous ones ive heard for along time. Maybe i misunderstood. If not....hmmm
F
I see the witch hunt continues...
Yes there are many who preach falsehoods out there however, if you really open your eyes and ears to the leading of the Holy Spirit and not some particular doctrine or creed, you will find that there are just as many false teachers out there that preach against the gifts as there are those who are for the gifts.
True discernment only comes from daily fellowship with God and listening to what the Holy Spirit has to say. Ultimately, the entire basis of this thing we call Christianity is daily fellowship with the living God. I challenge everyone on this board to put all doctrinal and denominational biases aside, stop reading anything other than the bible and double the amount of time you spend in prayer and meditation on the Word of God asking God Himself to rend your hearts of any wrongful thinking thus revealing anything that you might be holding unto that grieves Him. Until you do, you have absoutely no business attempting to teach anyone anything for you are teaching out of your own flesh and not through true discernment.
There are many on these boards who will refuse to do so. These are the very people that believers need to avoid because they prefer to listen to the biases of their own flesh then humbles rather themselves and listen to God.
Yes there are many who preach falsehoods out there however, if you really open your eyes and ears to the leading of the Holy Spirit and not some particular doctrine or creed, you will find that there are just as many false teachers out there that preach against the gifts as there are those who are for the gifts.
True discernment only comes from daily fellowship with God and listening to what the Holy Spirit has to say. Ultimately, the entire basis of this thing we call Christianity is daily fellowship with the living God. I challenge everyone on this board to put all doctrinal and denominational biases aside, stop reading anything other than the bible and double the amount of time you spend in prayer and meditation on the Word of God asking God Himself to rend your hearts of any wrongful thinking thus revealing anything that you might be holding unto that grieves Him. Until you do, you have absoutely no business attempting to teach anyone anything for you are teaching out of your own flesh and not through true discernment.
There are many on these boards who will refuse to do so. These are the very people that believers need to avoid because they prefer to listen to the biases of their own flesh then humbles rather themselves and listen to God.
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A
Im sorry the scriptures were given to form doctrinal biases. And how would you know that time striving would do a man good?
And while your on the subject of the flesh...what good is a forum except to identify disagreements and rethink positions? and expose
what they are.
Hebrews 5:11-14 teaches us where to get discernment.....yes its by the Spirit in the scriptures..For everyone that uses milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
For the group huggers: Philipians 1:9-11 And this i pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgement, that ye may approve things that are excellent, that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
Id rekon the biases of their own flesh would be the things that dont agree with your biases. Maybe...not sure. People have slamdunked me here and I take it to task and rethink my position. Isnt that good?
And while your on the subject of the flesh...what good is a forum except to identify disagreements and rethink positions? and expose
what they are.
Hebrews 5:11-14 teaches us where to get discernment.....yes its by the Spirit in the scriptures..For everyone that uses milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
For the group huggers: Philipians 1:9-11 And this i pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgement, that ye may approve things that are excellent, that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
Id rekon the biases of their own flesh would be the things that dont agree with your biases. Maybe...not sure. People have slamdunked me here and I take it to task and rethink my position. Isnt that good?
A
hugs always turn into wrestling matches in my family. lol
I think it is good to rethink anything that might not be what God wanted us to be obedient too any thought that wars against the knowledge of God.
2 Corinthians 10:4-6
New King James Version (NKJV)
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.
I think it is good to rethink anything that might not be what God wanted us to be obedient too
any thought that wars against the knowledge of God.2 Corinthians 10:4-6
New King James Version (NKJV)
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.
R
Wow, I just read the last 2 days of this thread and found one common tactic and one unbelievable statement.
Tactic: if theres a disagreement about spirituals its becuase you Dont Have the Spirit and for sure not any discernment.
Next the mindblowing statement: The Spirit gave discernment to see where the prophets were in the Spirit and in the flesh.
Wow, that one is the most dangerous ones ive heard for along time. Maybe i misunderstood. If not....hmmm
Tactic: if theres a disagreement about spirituals its becuase you Dont Have the Spirit and for sure not any discernment.
Next the mindblowing statement: The Spirit gave discernment to see where the prophets were in the Spirit and in the flesh.
Wow, that one is the most dangerous ones ive heard for along time. Maybe i misunderstood. If not....hmmm
David was a prophet. He prophesied in psalms. This prophecy was not of David, but the Holy Spirit spoke through David, prophesying of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. Not one prophecy of the scripture is to be interpreted by men. Prophecy is revelation meant for edification, by the Spirit of God.
But what should we say of David? David was a man subject to error like we all are. Do we say that when David disobeyed the command of the Lord and killed a servant of the Lord he was acting out by the Spirit of God? Are we to say that God caused him to do that? No!!! David, acting out of his own lusts was tempted and thereafter he killed a man, even a servant of the Lord God. After which the Lord judged him.
So you have people to say that David was justified because he was a man after God's own heart. David acted in the flesh, and the witness is true that he was not in the Spirit at this time. So no one can judge another man by what they presume to be rightly dividing the word of truth. It is the Spirit that is the witness of it, and Jesus explains very well the end of the matter.
Thou shalt love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul, and your neighbor as yourself.
May Jesus bless you.
witch hunt?
apparently it's okay with Jesus to test people who claim to be Apostles.
Revelation 2:21
I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.
Fire: this is as far as continuationists ever get...then the HOWEVER comes out.
this is not a matter of angels on a pinhead.
it comes down to ONE THING: if those offices have ceased, everyone claiming to be an Apostle is false.
everybody who claims to be one (or a prophet) readily agrees there are "are many who preach falsehoods out there"....but for some reason THEY are the real deal. or their mentor is.
we've had this discussion many times, and this conversation is going on around the world throughout all Christendom...it's not fun & games at CC because there's nothing else to talk about.
there "are many who preach falsehoods out there" - can we actually look at the NAR? i keep posting source after source, analyses, biblical exegeses...and the only thing coming back is there "are many who preach falsehoods out there, HOWEVER".
this is an EXTREMELY serious matter: there are people who not only intend to take over the church, they are doing it as we speak. and they are doing it at the highest levels, all the way up to, through, and inside the White House. IT'S CALLED DOMINIONISM.
don't know of ANYONE who claimed otherwise.
the issue doesn't even have to be about what they (NAR or otherwise) are PREACHING, but about WHO ARE they, and do they really have the Authority (and POWER) of the First Century Apostles.
here's where you could help me immensely: if i could get a detailed, straight-forward answer on what thismeans/sounds like/looks like/involves, i could perhaps understand where the five-fold ministry/continuationists are coming from:
" listening to what the Holy Spirit has to say"
how do we listen?
how does He speak?
etc.
but: you are a continuationist, who has a developed set of doctrines and beliefs on the five-fold ministry, correct? as well you are pentecostal?
so, you're not exactly without doctrinal and denominational biases, right?
i've noticed the same thing.
but i woumight have ended it this way "humbles....themselves and listen to God by studying His word and in prayer".
yours truly, from
the cessationzone
apparently it's okay with Jesus to test people who claim to be Apostles.
Revelation 2:21
I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.
Fire: this is as far as continuationists ever get...then the HOWEVER comes out.
this is not a matter of angels on a pinhead.
it comes down to ONE THING: if those offices have ceased, everyone claiming to be an Apostle is false.
everybody who claims to be one (or a prophet) readily agrees there are "are many who preach falsehoods out there"....but for some reason THEY are the real deal. or their mentor is.
we've had this discussion many times, and this conversation is going on around the world throughout all Christendom...it's not fun & games at CC because there's nothing else to talk about.
there "are many who preach falsehoods out there" - can we actually look at the NAR? i keep posting source after source, analyses, biblical exegeses...and the only thing coming back is there "are many who preach falsehoods out there, HOWEVER".
this is an EXTREMELY serious matter: there are people who not only intend to take over the church, they are doing it as we speak. and they are doing it at the highest levels, all the way up to, through, and inside the White House. IT'S CALLED DOMINIONISM.
don't know of ANYONE who claimed otherwise.
the issue doesn't even have to be about what they (NAR or otherwise) are PREACHING, but about WHO ARE they, and do they really have the Authority (and POWER) of the First Century Apostles.
here's where you could help me immensely: if i could get a detailed, straight-forward answer on what thismeans/sounds like/looks like/involves, i could perhaps understand where the five-fold ministry/continuationists are coming from:
" listening to what the Holy Spirit has to say"
how do we listen?
how does He speak?
etc.
but: you are a continuationist, who has a developed set of doctrines and beliefs on the five-fold ministry, correct? as well you are pentecostal?
so, you're not exactly without doctrinal and denominational biases, right?
i've noticed the same thing.
but i woumight have ended it this way "humbles....themselves and listen to God by studying His word and in prayer".
yours truly, from
the cessationzone
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A
so are you teaching and have you done your own challenge?
I thought this was a discussion board,not a pulpit and the only teacher is the Holy Spirit. Right now we are just testing the words spoken by those claiming to be brethren in Christ. At least that is how I view it.
Do you see yourself as a teacher?
I thought this was a discussion board,not a pulpit and the only teacher is the Holy Spirit. Right now we are just testing the words spoken by those claiming to be brethren in Christ. At least that is how I view it.
Do you see yourself as a teacher?
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F
Not here to teach, judge or debate. Just concerned that people are becoming too polarized denominationally thus taking their eyes off of the fact that true Christianity rests not on what you know but rather who you know.
You will find both wheat and tares in all denominations. Just because someone might believe the same as you do doesn't necessarily mean that their heart is in the right place. On the same token, someone might believe rather differently than you yet they might be one of the most humble and spiritually wise people you will ever meet.
The point I'm trying to make is this: head knowledge means nothing without heart knowledge. It is very conceivable that a person could possess very sound doctrine yet doesn't know Jesus in their heart. A person might know tons of scripture yet not know Jesus at all. I personally believe that when we stand before Jesus, He's not going to ask us how much of the bible that we know. He's going to ask us how much of the bible that we lived.
You will find both wheat and tares in all denominations. Just because someone might believe the same as you do doesn't necessarily mean that their heart is in the right place. On the same token, someone might believe rather differently than you yet they might be one of the most humble and spiritually wise people you will ever meet.
The point I'm trying to make is this: head knowledge means nothing without heart knowledge. It is very conceivable that a person could possess very sound doctrine yet doesn't know Jesus in their heart. A person might know tons of scripture yet not know Jesus at all. I personally believe that when we stand before Jesus, He's not going to ask us how much of the bible that we know. He's going to ask us how much of the bible that we lived.
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F
I've basically said my peace on this issue and don't plan on pursuing the convo any further after this post because it's pretty obvious that for some of you, anything I say will be rejected simply because I believe somewhat differently. However, I would like to leave you with a couple of questions. Just because I believe that all of the promises mentioned in the New Testament are still relevant for today, how does that make me any more or less saved than any of you?
Yes, I would agree that we can judge a person according to one's fruit. However, because very few of us actually know one another outside of this website much less live near enough to one another to make an accurate assessment of one's fruits, how do we really know that the person we've come to agreement with on here is all they profess to be?
As stated before, I'm not here to judge you or even teach you for that matter. All I'm doing is offering is some friendly advice seeing as I've made some mistakes in the past and I see those same mistakes being repeated now by some of you.
Be sure to choose your friends wisely, especially online. Also be sure that you are following the Lord's heart & leading concerning something you find questionable and not the doctrinal or denominational pride and zeal of another. It's a given that the majority of us are not going to agree all the time or even most of the time. However, when we begin to condemn and alienate others simply because they believe differently than we do that's a sure sign that we have veered off of the straight and narrow path.
Remember, it's not about what we know but who we know. Let's keep our eyes on Jesus and the rest will take care of itself.
Yes, I would agree that we can judge a person according to one's fruit. However, because very few of us actually know one another outside of this website much less live near enough to one another to make an accurate assessment of one's fruits, how do we really know that the person we've come to agreement with on here is all they profess to be?
As stated before, I'm not here to judge you or even teach you for that matter. All I'm doing is offering is some friendly advice seeing as I've made some mistakes in the past and I see those same mistakes being repeated now by some of you.
Be sure to choose your friends wisely, especially online. Also be sure that you are following the Lord's heart & leading concerning something you find questionable and not the doctrinal or denominational pride and zeal of another. It's a given that the majority of us are not going to agree all the time or even most of the time. However, when we begin to condemn and alienate others simply because they believe differently than we do that's a sure sign that we have veered off of the straight and narrow path.
Remember, it's not about what we know but who we know. Let's keep our eyes on Jesus and the rest will take care of itself.
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