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You think that Ramon, and most likely me also, attack God's word, when in reality we are calling into the light how so many in the body have used the word, which is to say, misused. Not once have I or Ramon spoken against the bible. Many times I have spoken against how the bible is viewed.
But discernment is lacking. Jesus is our life, through the Spirit He was baptized in, the Spirit He sent to us to be with us forever. And this Spirit teaches us to live in Jesus, and to love one another.
I have been called many names here, and had some act like they were my friends, my brother or sister in Christ, only to have them turn on me and treat me as if I am accursed. All because I had the courage to speak the words from God which they did not want to hear. It is not true that words cannot harm. The person who loves in Christ is always open to being hurt, for that is what true love is, the giving of your heart so freely and completely that there are no walls to keep hurt out.
In Christ
But discernment is lacking. Jesus is our life, through the Spirit He was baptized in, the Spirit He sent to us to be with us forever. And this Spirit teaches us to live in Jesus, and to love one another.
I have been called many names here, and had some act like they were my friends, my brother or sister in Christ, only to have them turn on me and treat me as if I am accursed. All because I had the courage to speak the words from God which they did not want to hear. It is not true that words cannot harm. The person who loves in Christ is always open to being hurt, for that is what true love is, the giving of your heart so freely and completely that there are no walls to keep hurt out.
In Christ
As I said before, Ramon has not attacked scripture, but his people see scripture. Hoe can someone attack scripture. On the face this is a silly claim. Scripture is true, it does not matter what someone says about scripture, it has been and always will be true.
As to saying words from God that are in disagreement with scripture, maybe with what we think scripture says. We might be wrong.
As to saying words from God that are in disagreement with scripture, maybe with what we think scripture says. We might be wrong.
things to consider:
1) there is certainly no shortage of congregations where charismatics (emergents, etc) make "provision for the leading of the Spirit in our worship services"; so it's interesting that such a person feels a need to remark that "One of the biggest problems with how we do things today" is the lack of charismatic 'worship' opportunities.
this statement shows a need to find fault with mainstream (traditional or conservative) services where "worship" is actually the full expression of gathering in the Lord's Name: the preaching and teaching of the word of God being the primary purpose for the assembly; partaking of the sacraments as we are instructed to do until Jesus returns; and finally the singing of psalms, hymns and songs in praise and honor and thanksgiving.
with the sermon/teaching itself being of the utmost importance, this recently reversed order by certain groups where "worship" means anything other than the preaching and teaching of the word is unfortunate, and in reality is "One of the biggest problems with how we do things today".
the resultant Biblical illiteracy and devaluing of scripture (which ironically is quickened by the Spirit) as of the utmost importance for believers, and the source of the words that bring eternal life to the unbeliever is the fruit of the kind of thinking expressed by this poster.
2) "the leading of the Spirit in our worship services" if done in obedience to and in accordance with the Holy Spirit's Commission would cause us to focus first and foremost on the preaching and teaching from the holy scriptures.
The Holy Spirit will never lead those assembled in Christ's name to do anything that is disorderly, and that does not honour and elevate Jesus Christ and God's word. Through the teaching of the word, The Holy Spirit would be convicting those present (both the saved and the unsaved) of their sin - this is done by the teaching of The Law; He would be directing them to seek the Son for forgiveness of sins (The Gospel); and He would be illuminating and quickening their minds (hearts) to deepen their knowledge and communion with an Holy God, through the means He has ordained, the preaching of the word.
The Holy Spirit would be acting in accordance with His Commission as Comforter, Counsellor, Teacher and the Agent of our sanctification. Claiming to see (EXPERIENCE) these things accomplished by making "provision for the leading of the Spirit in our worship services" outside the preaching and teaching from the word of God is a childish understatement at best.
it is an insult to God claim such a devotion to the Holy Spirit while denying the very means wherewith WE WERE CLEARLY AND UNEQUIVICALLY TOLD He works our sanctification and growth and knowledge in the Lord - through the enlightenment of the mind and heart by the preaching of the word continually.
maturity and being conformed into the likeness of Jesus Christ comes primarily through honoring His words and teachings, as they are WRITTEN and brought to life by the Spirit, engrafted into our minds and brought to remebrance as we move through life - not through funky freeform "worship styles".
3) most active Christians make calls/visits/comments like the one SW mentioned.
what "practical experience" is required to receive and pass on prompting from The Holy Spirit? who DOESN'T do this?
if this is done with care, and with the clear expression that "this was impressed on me" or "i felt led to", why is there "just too much fear of being wrong"?
if it's from The Holy Spirit there will be NO QUESTION of the source, nor the meaning. so why the fear of being "wrong"? the only reason is if one is in the habit of straining to "listen" to the "voice of the Spirit", continually hoping for and expecting new revelation or "prophecies", and is perpetually passing on "words from the Lord" (which are very often proven to be NOT SO). in that case there should be fear of being wrong.
this manipulation of others by the statement that "Very few people will trust His voice" is a signature of the spiritual elitist who feels such heavniness in his heart that most are too dull to hear or trust "His voice". "very few" have "practised hearing the voice of the Holy Spirit" - in reality, most Christians have a healthy enough reverential fear of God to attribute every thought and impression in a man's "heart" (which is deceitful above all things) to The Holy Spirit; then more alarmingly to make pronouncements "from Him".
4) an impression or prompting by God to speak to another is NOT PROPHECY.
this careless and sloppy misuse of terms; words; offices and functions God ordained for the building of His church is without question "One of the biggest problems with how we do things today"
practise what? sharing concern for others (even expressing the impression the Spirit has prompted this)?
share WHAT as "heard" from the Spirit?
condemnations of Christ's Church? verbatim from Jesus? and why should an utterance such as this not be weighed and tested? why should a "prophet" willing to make a worldwide pronouncement said to be from and angry and threatening Jesus Christ Almighty expect to be handled with kid gloves, in "atmosphere of encouragement and grace"?
"prophecies" from the Spirit? the prophets ordained by God didn't sit around in a circle of love feeling safe and practising sharing what the heard from the Spirit.
"And this must be in an atmosphere of encouragement and grace. There cannot be any judgmental attitude present. " - and this is the real heart of the matter. not only is this antithetical to the instruction we as a body have received (test the spirits, search the scriptures to see if these things are so, etc) , it is the sure sign of a false prophet who hopes to continue in their puffed-up self proclamined "anointing" without testing, accountability, and ultimately without detection.
NO prophet or Apostle, Jesus nor The Holy Spirit would ever say such a thing. they say the opposite.
as seen in the world today, and back to the original point made: there is no shortage of places "where one can express the words that they hear from their heart, where the Spirit dwells." this goes on all day long in Christ's Name.
its called variously NAR, neo-orthodoxy, and neomontanism. so many in these camps have been proven repeatedly to misrepresent and misunderstand scripture; the Commission of the Holy Spirit, Biblical soteriology, and the mission of the church as a body. they are after apostolic age supernatural gifts, and they appear willing to ignore the real Holy Spirit in the process.
a true prophet would never make this statement, since it is completely FALSE.
this is the passage where the prophets being subject to the prophets is found:
1 Corinthians 14
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: yet in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak to this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore languages are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them who believe. 23 If therefore the whole church is assembled in one place, and all speak in languages, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are insane? 24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced by all, he is judged by all: 25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face, he will worship God, and report that God is in you in truth.
26 How is it then, brethren? when ye are assembled, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a language, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done to edification. 27 If any man speaketh in an unknown language, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. 29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the others judge. 30 If any thing is revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
(Webster's)
now the verses in question:
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the others judge. 30 If any thing is revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
(Webster's)
any Christian taught by The Spirit can see that this apostolic age supernatural gift was for the foundation of the church, was a revelatory gifts, and that the prophets were subject to one another as they received new revelation from The Lord concerning New Testament doctrines and the organization of the information.
the prophets were to speak their supernaturally revealed doctrines among themselves in an orderly fashion, each weighning and judging what the others have said for VERACITY(the prophets ultimately being subject to an Apostle, and in this case there was not one at Corinth, hence requiring Pauls' corrective letter of instruction on the proper use of these supernatural revelatory gifts).
his instructions were NOT that a prophet could just choose to speak or not speak, as free agents: he said they were to listen to each other ONE AT A TIME. this was very serious business (something entirely lost on today's "prophets")
again: no shortage of charismatic churches where 'prophets' abound and can utter to their hearts content. plenty of encouragement today for such things.
why isn't that good enough?
why do they have to 'learn to speak"? doesn't sound like God at work to me.
"and even are many times taught that this is not valid today" which i am greatly encouraged by - it means the real church is alive and well, some pastors and elders are still willing to eject the false prophets (to obey Christ and protect their flocks), and are continuing to defend and contend for the faith once for all delivered to the saints and which is recorded once for all in canon.
The Holy Spirit is suppressed? withheld? because self-proclamied prophets aren't permitted to run rampant through the real church? THANK GOD THEY AREN'T.
again, i wonder why they aren't satisfied with hanging out in their own supernatural "operating in the anointing" clubs? why the need to force themselves into congregations that aren't interested in their antics - assemblies that deliberately and consistently choose the preaching and teaching of the scriptures and reverent worship over charismatic chaos?
and, this "message" comes always with the not-so-veiled threat of insulting or blaspheming the Spirit. what's really scary is that the NAR and like organizations and individuals are the ones dangling on that precipice....
again, i thank God He is restraining this farce as much as He has to date. my prayer is that the true chuch will continue to ostracize and reject the NAR. my prayer is that Christians will go back to continual study and preaching of the word, buildin themselves up in his TRUTH, and preapring for the days ahead, days that are marked for apostasy and deception, and we are even told what it looks and sounds like.
we are to expect this invasion to grow as more and more false prophets appear and force their way into the true church. unless they repent, their end is certain.
Matthew 7
A Tree and Its Fruit
15“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
1) there is certainly no shortage of congregations where charismatics (emergents, etc) make "provision for the leading of the Spirit in our worship services"; so it's interesting that such a person feels a need to remark that "One of the biggest problems with how we do things today" is the lack of charismatic 'worship' opportunities.
this statement shows a need to find fault with mainstream (traditional or conservative) services where "worship" is actually the full expression of gathering in the Lord's Name: the preaching and teaching of the word of God being the primary purpose for the assembly; partaking of the sacraments as we are instructed to do until Jesus returns; and finally the singing of psalms, hymns and songs in praise and honor and thanksgiving.
with the sermon/teaching itself being of the utmost importance, this recently reversed order by certain groups where "worship" means anything other than the preaching and teaching of the word is unfortunate, and in reality is "One of the biggest problems with how we do things today".
the resultant Biblical illiteracy and devaluing of scripture (which ironically is quickened by the Spirit) as of the utmost importance for believers, and the source of the words that bring eternal life to the unbeliever is the fruit of the kind of thinking expressed by this poster.
2) "the leading of the Spirit in our worship services" if done in obedience to and in accordance with the Holy Spirit's Commission would cause us to focus first and foremost on the preaching and teaching from the holy scriptures.
The Holy Spirit will never lead those assembled in Christ's name to do anything that is disorderly, and that does not honour and elevate Jesus Christ and God's word. Through the teaching of the word, The Holy Spirit would be convicting those present (both the saved and the unsaved) of their sin - this is done by the teaching of The Law; He would be directing them to seek the Son for forgiveness of sins (The Gospel); and He would be illuminating and quickening their minds (hearts) to deepen their knowledge and communion with an Holy God, through the means He has ordained, the preaching of the word.
The Holy Spirit would be acting in accordance with His Commission as Comforter, Counsellor, Teacher and the Agent of our sanctification. Claiming to see (EXPERIENCE) these things accomplished by making "provision for the leading of the Spirit in our worship services" outside the preaching and teaching from the word of God is a childish understatement at best.
it is an insult to God claim such a devotion to the Holy Spirit while denying the very means wherewith WE WERE CLEARLY AND UNEQUIVICALLY TOLD He works our sanctification and growth and knowledge in the Lord - through the enlightenment of the mind and heart by the preaching of the word continually.
maturity and being conformed into the likeness of Jesus Christ comes primarily through honoring His words and teachings, as they are WRITTEN and brought to life by the Spirit, engrafted into our minds and brought to remebrance as we move through life - not through funky freeform "worship styles".
3) most active Christians make calls/visits/comments like the one SW mentioned.
what "practical experience" is required to receive and pass on prompting from The Holy Spirit? who DOESN'T do this?
if this is done with care, and with the clear expression that "this was impressed on me" or "i felt led to", why is there "just too much fear of being wrong"?
if it's from The Holy Spirit there will be NO QUESTION of the source, nor the meaning. so why the fear of being "wrong"? the only reason is if one is in the habit of straining to "listen" to the "voice of the Spirit", continually hoping for and expecting new revelation or "prophecies", and is perpetually passing on "words from the Lord" (which are very often proven to be NOT SO). in that case there should be fear of being wrong.
this manipulation of others by the statement that "Very few people will trust His voice" is a signature of the spiritual elitist who feels such heavniness in his heart that most are too dull to hear or trust "His voice". "very few" have "practised hearing the voice of the Holy Spirit" - in reality, most Christians have a healthy enough reverential fear of God to attribute every thought and impression in a man's "heart" (which is deceitful above all things) to The Holy Spirit; then more alarmingly to make pronouncements "from Him".
4) an impression or prompting by God to speak to another is NOT PROPHECY.
this careless and sloppy misuse of terms; words; offices and functions God ordained for the building of His church is without question "One of the biggest problems with how we do things today"
practise what? sharing concern for others (even expressing the impression the Spirit has prompted this)?
share WHAT as "heard" from the Spirit?
condemnations of Christ's Church? verbatim from Jesus? and why should an utterance such as this not be weighed and tested? why should a "prophet" willing to make a worldwide pronouncement said to be from and angry and threatening Jesus Christ Almighty expect to be handled with kid gloves, in "atmosphere of encouragement and grace"?
"prophecies" from the Spirit? the prophets ordained by God didn't sit around in a circle of love feeling safe and practising sharing what the heard from the Spirit.
"And this must be in an atmosphere of encouragement and grace. There cannot be any judgmental attitude present. " - and this is the real heart of the matter. not only is this antithetical to the instruction we as a body have received (test the spirits, search the scriptures to see if these things are so, etc) , it is the sure sign of a false prophet who hopes to continue in their puffed-up self proclamined "anointing" without testing, accountability, and ultimately without detection.
NO prophet or Apostle, Jesus nor The Holy Spirit would ever say such a thing. they say the opposite.
as seen in the world today, and back to the original point made: there is no shortage of places "where one can express the words that they hear from their heart, where the Spirit dwells." this goes on all day long in Christ's Name.
its called variously NAR, neo-orthodoxy, and neomontanism. so many in these camps have been proven repeatedly to misrepresent and misunderstand scripture; the Commission of the Holy Spirit, Biblical soteriology, and the mission of the church as a body. they are after apostolic age supernatural gifts, and they appear willing to ignore the real Holy Spirit in the process.
a true prophet would never make this statement, since it is completely FALSE.
this is the passage where the prophets being subject to the prophets is found:
1 Corinthians 14
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: yet in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak to this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. 22 Wherefore languages are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them who believe. 23 If therefore the whole church is assembled in one place, and all speak in languages, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are insane? 24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced by all, he is judged by all: 25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face, he will worship God, and report that God is in you in truth.
26 How is it then, brethren? when ye are assembled, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a language, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done to edification. 27 If any man speaketh in an unknown language, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. 29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the others judge. 30 If any thing is revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
(Webster's)
now the verses in question:
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the others judge. 30 If any thing is revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace. 31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
(Webster's)
any Christian taught by The Spirit can see that this apostolic age supernatural gift was for the foundation of the church, was a revelatory gifts, and that the prophets were subject to one another as they received new revelation from The Lord concerning New Testament doctrines and the organization of the information.
the prophets were to speak their supernaturally revealed doctrines among themselves in an orderly fashion, each weighning and judging what the others have said for VERACITY(the prophets ultimately being subject to an Apostle, and in this case there was not one at Corinth, hence requiring Pauls' corrective letter of instruction on the proper use of these supernatural revelatory gifts).
his instructions were NOT that a prophet could just choose to speak or not speak, as free agents: he said they were to listen to each other ONE AT A TIME. this was very serious business (something entirely lost on today's "prophets")
again: no shortage of charismatic churches where 'prophets' abound and can utter to their hearts content. plenty of encouragement today for such things.
why isn't that good enough?
why do they have to 'learn to speak"? doesn't sound like God at work to me.
"and even are many times taught that this is not valid today" which i am greatly encouraged by - it means the real church is alive and well, some pastors and elders are still willing to eject the false prophets (to obey Christ and protect their flocks), and are continuing to defend and contend for the faith once for all delivered to the saints and which is recorded once for all in canon.
The Holy Spirit is suppressed? withheld? because self-proclamied prophets aren't permitted to run rampant through the real church? THANK GOD THEY AREN'T.
again, i wonder why they aren't satisfied with hanging out in their own supernatural "operating in the anointing" clubs? why the need to force themselves into congregations that aren't interested in their antics - assemblies that deliberately and consistently choose the preaching and teaching of the scriptures and reverent worship over charismatic chaos?
and, this "message" comes always with the not-so-veiled threat of insulting or blaspheming the Spirit. what's really scary is that the NAR and like organizations and individuals are the ones dangling on that precipice....
again, i thank God He is restraining this farce as much as He has to date. my prayer is that the true chuch will continue to ostracize and reject the NAR. my prayer is that Christians will go back to continual study and preaching of the word, buildin themselves up in his TRUTH, and preapring for the days ahead, days that are marked for apostasy and deception, and we are even told what it looks and sounds like.
we are to expect this invasion to grow as more and more false prophets appear and force their way into the true church. unless they repent, their end is certain.
Matthew 7
A Tree and Its Fruit
15“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
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there's that BUT again.....
how is an apostle today personally commissioned by Christ?
if you could be specific on this we can get somewhere.
and what "others" recognize that commission? others who believe they are apostles? that's meaningless.
did it?
not according to scripture.
organized institutions may have risen and fallen....visible professing groups may have fallen into darkness: but the gates of hell shall not EVER prevail against Christ's Church.
this is just the standard set-up for why the church has not looked FOR nor seen these offices for 1900 years.
??
is he legitimate? at all?
this is a pretty rough lesson on church history. that's okay, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the FACT that prophets and apostles and supernatual gifts have NOT been seen or ACCEPTED by the church since the Apostolic Age.
i constantly see this build-up, this "reasoning" as to why these gifts and offices CEASED but are now back in operation.
if you have ANY documentation on this it would be a good time to present it.
speculating in this way to justify the NAR is unacceptable.
and this is the second move: after finding no solid ground to justify laying a new foundation, move into hand-waving, a sloughing off of the importance and precision of the gifts and offices as they existed in the Apostolic Age.
this is irresponsible and dangerous.
its either about authority, offices and titles, and specific supernatural gifts or it isn't.
i'm sorry, this is not enough proof for the reinstitution of those offices and gifts...you readily admit they CEASED. now you must show where in scripture it says they would cease and then be reinstituted.
this isn't a game, and we are on extremely dangerous ground.
for the life of me: I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY OUR ERA AND THE FULLNESS OF CANON AND THE REVEALED WILL AND PLAN OF GOD IS NOT ENOUGH FOR SOME - why the headlong rush to "obtain" what were actually PARTIAL gifts?
a simple, careful reading of the letters and books in question just without question show that THAT WAS THEN AND THIS IS NOW.
how is an apostle today personally commissioned by Christ?
if you could be specific on this we can get somewhere.
and what "others" recognize that commission? others who believe they are apostles? that's meaningless.
did it?
not according to scripture.
organized institutions may have risen and fallen....visible professing groups may have fallen into darkness: but the gates of hell shall not EVER prevail against Christ's Church.
this is just the standard set-up for why the church has not looked FOR nor seen these offices for 1900 years.
??
is he legitimate? at all?
this is a pretty rough lesson on church history. that's okay, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the FACT that prophets and apostles and supernatual gifts have NOT been seen or ACCEPTED by the church since the Apostolic Age.
i constantly see this build-up, this "reasoning" as to why these gifts and offices CEASED but are now back in operation.
if you have ANY documentation on this it would be a good time to present it.
speculating in this way to justify the NAR is unacceptable.
and this is the second move: after finding no solid ground to justify laying a new foundation, move into hand-waving, a sloughing off of the importance and precision of the gifts and offices as they existed in the Apostolic Age.
this is irresponsible and dangerous.
its either about authority, offices and titles, and specific supernatural gifts or it isn't.
i'm sorry, this is not enough proof for the reinstitution of those offices and gifts...you readily admit they CEASED. now you must show where in scripture it says they would cease and then be reinstituted.
this isn't a game, and we are on extremely dangerous ground.
for the life of me: I DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHY OUR ERA AND THE FULLNESS OF CANON AND THE REVEALED WILL AND PLAN OF GOD IS NOT ENOUGH FOR SOME - why the headlong rush to "obtain" what were actually PARTIAL gifts?
a simple, careful reading of the letters and books in question just without question show that THAT WAS THEN AND THIS IS NOW.
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what a joke.
but, you did make it clear this is the purpose and mission of the NAR, yourself included.
but the true church will stand against you and continue to eject you from her midst.
you may take some lambs down with you, but i would HATE to be you on that day if you do not repent.
nobody needs you or ramon to point out anything: just hang out in your anointing club and leave us be, ok?
in some cases, yes, unfortunately.
in others, no: we see you guys exactly for what you are.
i suppose when it finally dawns on them you're a false prophet, that's what happens.
goes with the territory: you can bask in the glow of your "anointing", your "office"...until people catch on.
then you gotta swallow your pill.
*cough*
courage?
you're a reckless fool.
you don't speak the words of God. you speak the ramblings of your own sinful mind.
this is laughable.
the persecuted prophet who endures, *sigh* because in spite of the ignorance of the lazy loathsome workers, the anointed Servant who is pleasing to The Lord and everything he speaks is from "the Lord" just loves the church so much he is willing to continually insult, deride, threaten and harass her.
and do it in quotation marks from a spirit named 'jesus"
GET THEE HENCE O SATAN.
but, you did make it clear this is the purpose and mission of the NAR, yourself included.
but the true church will stand against you and continue to eject you from her midst.
you may take some lambs down with you, but i would HATE to be you on that day if you do not repent.
nobody needs you or ramon to point out anything: just hang out in your anointing club and leave us be, ok?
in some cases, yes, unfortunately.
in others, no: we see you guys exactly for what you are.
i suppose when it finally dawns on them you're a false prophet, that's what happens.
goes with the territory: you can bask in the glow of your "anointing", your "office"...until people catch on.
then you gotta swallow your pill.
*cough*
courage?
you're a reckless fool.
you don't speak the words of God. you speak the ramblings of your own sinful mind.
this is laughable.
the persecuted prophet who endures, *sigh* because in spite of the ignorance of the lazy loathsome workers, the anointed Servant who is pleasing to The Lord and everything he speaks is from "the Lord" just loves the church so much he is willing to continually insult, deride, threaten and harass her.
and do it in quotation marks from a spirit named 'jesus"
GET THEE HENCE O SATAN.
Necto,
When you first came to this site you were not like this, something happened to you and you have become negative in your heart. That is not the grace of God that I know you to have. Your fellowship in Christ was with grace and now it is with something else that does not edify you in Christ. Go back to the grace of God and let the love of God be stirred in your heart by faith. You are a precious saint and don't let anyone or anything seperate your heart from the love of God that you have through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit within.
When you first came to this site you were not like this, something happened to you and you have become negative in your heart. That is not the grace of God that I know you to have. Your fellowship in Christ was with grace and now it is with something else that does not edify you in Christ. Go back to the grace of God and let the love of God be stirred in your heart by faith. You are a precious saint and don't let anyone or anything seperate your heart from the love of God that you have through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit within.
E
Amen sis. We need to get back to how the early church did it.
Acts 2: 42 : 42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.
This is how the early church did it.
1. They met to hear the doctrines of the apostles
2. They met to have fellowship (they actually met in peoples homes, not a church building
3. They broke bread. In this day and age it meant they had dinner together. They probably did communion also
4. They prayed.
5. We also know many times they sang praises to God.
No mention of tongues, Healings, All the other charasmatic stuff people calls a churhc service.
we worship God in our minds, our hearts and our spirit. No by doing all these "signs and wonders'
The problem with the church today is they meet once, maybe twice a week. Do what they consider to be "worship" which is nothing but tradition where no one really gets anything out of it but maybe a "good feeling" and they think they are good. Yet what do they do the rest of the week? These churches met almost every night in each others home. Talk about fellowship. I would love this!! My church tries. we meet three nights a week most weeks and Sunday to fellowship.
Acts 2: 42 : 42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers.
This is how the early church did it.
1. They met to hear the doctrines of the apostles
2. They met to have fellowship (they actually met in peoples homes, not a church building
3. They broke bread. In this day and age it meant they had dinner together. They probably did communion also
4. They prayed.
5. We also know many times they sang praises to God.
No mention of tongues, Healings, All the other charasmatic stuff people calls a churhc service.
we worship God in our minds, our hearts and our spirit. No by doing all these "signs and wonders'
The problem with the church today is they meet once, maybe twice a week. Do what they consider to be "worship" which is nothing but tradition where no one really gets anything out of it but maybe a "good feeling" and they think they are good. Yet what do they do the rest of the week? These churches met almost every night in each others home. Talk about fellowship. I would love this!! My church tries. we meet three nights a week most weeks and Sunday to fellowship.
E
Walking in the Spirit is not tongues, prophesying and other types of charismatic worship. Walking in the spirit is being guided by the HS in everything we do. At work, at home and at play. It is setting our minds on the things of the spirit.
People have confused this with a sunday morning of babel, confusion and God knows what else.