Apostles, Prophets, Teachers,...

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L

Lifelike

Guest
that's awesome!
was the wheelchair person's healing instantaneous, and permanent?

is there a testimonial website i could refer to?

many people are cured of cancer - God answers prayer....i had a terrible affliction some years ago, and after much prayer it disappeared: i have cancer now, however, and perhaps He will heal me, perhaps He will not.

the question is: were these people touched by Apostles?

and is healing guaranteed in any way? is it part of the Atonement?

Yeah, it was instantaneous, and permanant. Im sorry to hear about your present condition and do pray that God heals you. And no you dont need an apostle to pray for you, God can heal you in your bedroom, between you and Him, or it may come through another.

Not sure who prayed for her, but any christian can get a person out of a wheel chair. Im not sure whether she has the testimony in print anywhere, I can ask her, she is the wife of the ex worship leader of our church.

Ive prayed for people and seen them healed on the spot, and Im not an apostle, nor am I called as an apostle. I believe all christians have authority to heal, deliver and cast out demons. I was a young christian, and just acted on the leading of the Holy Spirit. I also cast a demon out of my sister lol, she flipped around on the ground back and forth like a snake. I was a very new christian and it scared the crap out of me, but when I calmed myself and began to pray in tongues I felt an authority and boldness come over me and commanded it to come out in Jesus name and it did. She was physically smaller after it had gone... WOW now theres a weight loss secret for you! lol. Then again Ive prayed for people and they havent been healed.

Through Christ's sacrifice and atonement we not only have access to healing, and the miraculous but through Him will come the restoration of all things, all that was lost will be returned. He is the great Redeemer. I think there can be many reasons some get healed and some dont, for instance Jesus went to some town and not many were healed due to unbelief. So in this we can pray for a thousand, just because we feel we should and see very little healing but in the right timing and when under the unction of the Holy Spirit healing is more likely, because God knows who will believe and who wont. I guess the more we can be obedient, and sensitive to His leading the more we will see His power. But its important to move in faith too, he want us to be active. Ive personally seen most of the gifts of the Holy Spirit work through me, and it all began as a very young christian, when I was filled with the Holy Spirit, before I even knew what the gifts were about, including the gift of prophecy, this is the major gift God place on my life. They just came naturally as the situation required, and I learnt the biblical teaching on them later. So its not hard for me to believe they are real and are for today.

I feel the church is in a massive mess at this time in history, and order is needed, and there is so much idolatry in her. But i dont believe its meant to stay that way, and I dont believe that the bride will look like this when the groom returns. I believe in the time to come many will fall away, but also many will be brought close, and will turn away from idolatry, after the 7th trumpet sounds, the glory of God will fill the temple, and before this happens, the temple will be purged of idols. God will not come until we are made ready. (Im speaking all of this from what God is showing me, not from some movement, or teaching Ive heard by the way. I dont know anything about the latter rain movement etc) This is my personal belief, and I find it backed by the word. I also find it backed by personal experience. God has done the same work that he will do in the worldwide church, in me, and He has perged me, and confronted my idols, and Ive had to face the past, and what I believe and why, and Ive found a lot of what the church has taught over the last few decades has been unfounded in scripture. No wonder i didnt feel like it was right ie the rapture as one example.

I believe apostles are about church government, as are the other 4 ministry giftings, and in this age are being used by Christ to return order to His church. It is one of the main functions of the apostle.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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Yeah, it was instantaneous, and permanant. Im sorry to hear about your present condition and do pray that God heals you. And no you dont need an apostle to pray for you, God can heal you in your bedroom, between you and Him, or it may come through another.

Not sure who prayed for her, but any christian can get a person out of a wheel chair. Im not sure whether she has the testimony in print anywhere, I can ask her, she is the wife of the ex worship leader of our church.

Ive prayed for people and seen them healed on the spot, and Im not an apostle, nor am I called as an apostle. I believe all christians have authority to heal, deliver and cast out demons. I was a young christian, and just acted on the leading of the Holy Spirit. I also cast a demon out of my sister lol, she flipped around on the ground back and forth like a snake. I was a very new christian and it scared the crap out of me, but when I calmed myself and began to pray in tongues I felt an authority and boldness come over me and commanded it to come out in Jesus name and it did. She was physically smaller after it had gone... WOW now theres a weight loss secret for you! lol. Then again Ive prayed for people and they havent been healed.

Through Christ's sacrifice and atonement we not only have access to healing, and the miraculous but through Him will come the restoration of all things, all that was lost will be returned. He is the great Redeemer. I think there can be many reasons some get healed and some dont, for instance Jesus went to some town and not many were healed due to unbelief. So in this we can pray for a thousand, just because we feel we should and see very little healing but in the right timing and when under the unction of the Holy Spirit healing is more likely, because God knows who will believe and who wont. I guess the more we can be obedient, and sensitive to His leading the more we will see His power. But its important to move in faith too, he want us to be active. Ive personally seen most of the gifts of the Holy Spirit work through me, and it all began as a very young christian, when I was filled with the Holy Spirit, before I even knew what the gifts were about, including the gift of prophecy, this is the major gift God place on my life. They just came naturally as the situation required, and I learnt the biblical teaching on them later. So its not hard for me to believe they are real and are for today.

I feel the church is in a massive mess at this time in history, and order is needed, and there is so much idolatry in her. But i dont believe its meant to stay that way, and I dont believe that the bride will look like this when the groom returns. I believe in the time to come many will fall away, but also many will be brought close, and will turn away from idolatry, after the 7th trumpet sounds, the glory of God will fill the temple, and before this happens, the temple will be purged of idols. God will not come until we are made ready. (Im speaking all of this from what God is showing me, not from some movement, or teaching Ive heard by the way. I dont know anything about the latter rain movement etc) This is my personal belief, and I find it backed by the word. I also find it backed by personal experience. God has done the same work that he will do in the worldwide church, in me, and He has perged me, and confronted my idols, and Ive had to face the past, and what I believe and why, and Ive found a lot of what the church has taught over the last few decades has been unfounded in scripture. No wonder i didnt feel like it was right ie the rapture as one example.

I believe apostles are about church government, as are the other 4 ministry giftings, and in this age are being used by Christ to return order to His church. It is one of the main functions of the apostle.
thank you Lifelike.
i know you are sincere.

physical healing is not guaranteed or covered in the Atonement.

yes, God surely answers prayers...and He moves in amazing ways in our lives, somehow making all things work for our good, and to His Glory.

we don't need new apostles to bring order to the church; we just need to follow the instructions we were given by the real ones, back in the day. unfortunately, they said things many won't accept....that's why we need new ones i guess.

zone.
 
L

Lifelike

Guest
By an apostle with the "gift", correct ? Or was it through the prayers of God's lesser peoples......those non-gifted, non-apostles ? BTW.....did your friend with cancer receive any type of treatment at all ? Do you believe that God uses medical professionals to heal as well ?

No not through an apostle. And i dont believe others are lesser. I believe we all play a part, and we all fit in the body. The cancer was inoperable and was instant. Yes i believe that God uses medical professionals. Another friend (My ex pastor) died of throat cancer recently, so I really have a dislike for the desease, and I believe God does too. And i believe we all should be praying for a cure to be released in the earth. I see your disdain for the idea of apostles being raised in the last days, and I dont blame you for feeling the way you do, I would too if i believed the way you do. But i dont see lesser and greater, and the apostles I have around me are anything but power hungry egomaniacs. My leader is one of the most gracious (Anyother MAJOR earmark of an apostle) and wise, and grounded, balanced, ethical, powerful leaders I have ever witnessed. Its about the fruit hey? This woman has bourne much fruit, in our lives and in the earth. She gave up worldwide fame, as an aria award winning music artist in the K in the 70's, TOP OF THE WORLD, to serve Christ. If she wanted riches, she had it, if she wanted notoriety, she had it, if she wanted self glory she had it. She chose death to self, and because of that I can stand here today and be healed, whole, empowered, excited about the future, even in the face of great distress coming on the world, great hope. I thank God that in these days he is establishing the office of Apostle, and I thank God that he ha srestore the office of Prophet. And trust me, you wouldnt want to try to be one if your not called to it. Its not about glory (vain glory) its about great death, not my will but yours LOrd, and its a hard road.
 
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I have prayed for hundreds however to be honest not many got healed but I rejoice in some who did..out of em some majour ones were on the spot but some took couple of weks....m not going to lower the standard of the power of healing in Jesus name by my experience cuz I didnt see much healings...he is the one who forgives all our iniquities n heal all our sickness..if we don get healed guess what instant glory..its all been paid for
 
L

Lifelike

Guest
since you have conveniently said we can not test false prophets or false doctrine BY THE SCRIPTURES, i guess its pointless to ask you to document your statement in the word.

i really have to wonder why people vehemently and persistently refuse to carefully consider what they believe and why they believe it:

"Lay aside your prejudices; listen calmly, listen dispassionately; hear what Scripture says; and when you receive the truth, if God should be pleased to reveal and manifest it to your soul, do not be ashamed to confess it. To confess you were wrong yesterday is only to acknowledge that you are a little wiser today; and instead of being a reflection on yourself, it is an honor to your judgment, and shows that you are improving in the knowledge of the truth. Do not be ashamed to learn, and to cast aside your old doctrines and views, but take up that which you may more plainly see to be in the word of God."

Charles Spurgeon
Yeah but people can twist the scriptures to mean whatever they like. Hence the need for witness of the Holy Spirit hand in hand with the written word. Whether we like it or not, its not just the word here on the planet, sitting on some little ant hill in all its glory. The planet is also filled with all manner of human beings who believe what they want to believe. Those that are His have received His Spirit, and can discern the word correctly, and can divide between good and evil and truth and error, in the earth. The word is only powerful when handled correctly. To clarify that statement, the word is always powerful, but it cant save you if you twist it to believe its saying something its not.

My point. You may be able to or test false prophets correctly due to soundness in the word and spirit, but the guy next to you may not. So although it is by the word that we are trained in discernment, it is also by the Spirit who revealed the living word to us - Jesus. You can test the spirits without ever reading the bible. Because the Word lives within us - As long as we are truly His. And then again, we can have Christ but still be at a place in our walk where we unknowingly serve many other idols and our discernemt is imparied and clouded, until He reveals our idol worship and delivers us.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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the apostles I have around me are anything but power hungry egomaniacs. My leader is one of the most gracious (Anyother MAJOR earmark of an apostle) and wise, and grounded, balanced, ethical, powerful leaders I have ever witnessed. Its about the fruit hey? This woman has bourne much fruit, in our lives and in the earth. She gave up worldwide fame, as an aria award winning music artist in the K in the 70's, TOP OF THE WORLD, to serve Christ
a female apostle? interesting.
did she receive a personal commission from Jesus Himself?

Lifelike, your group's mission is to bring order to the church.

here's an article which quotes the New Apostles...is this about right?:


Did the Church have no government for almost 1900 years prior to Wagner’s new apostolic prophetic movement?

Wagner explains this “The second apostolic age began in the year 2001, okay? And in this whole first chapter in this book I argue my point, I think rather… I hope it’s convincingly, that 2001 marks, is the year that marks the second apostolic age, which means for years the government of the church had not been in place since about, you know, the first century or so. It doesn’t mean weren’t apostles and prophets, because the government of the… the foundation of the church according to Ephesians 2:20 is apostles and prophets, Jesus being the chief cornerstone. It doesn’t mean there weren’t apostles and prophets, it means the body of Christ hadn’t recognized them and released them for the office that they had so that they’d function as apostles and prophets in the foundation of the church. But we now have that, I believe we’ve reached our critical mass in the year 2001” (C. Peter Wagner, Arise Prophetic Conference, Gateway Church, San Jose, CA, 10/10/2004)

............


Good intentions, sometimes the best intentions of sincere men can easily not turn out well or bring health to Christ’s body if they are not biblically based. This article is about examining this movement’s concepts, goals and practices to see if they have a biblical precedence for their claims.....

http://www.toddtyszka.com/newaposrest.html
 
L

Lifelike

Guest
Thats interesting. Scripture says at the end their will be a falling away, where many false prophets come is an impostors. and turn people from God. I see nothing about a great awakening and the return of apostolic signs and wonders. Where do you get this?

Just because there is a falling away, and people turn from God does not mean there will not be a remnant, that will be refined and purified. Most of the ones that fall away were not true coverts to begin with ie, they were saved to a church or an idea, and not to Christ. So when things get REALLY tuff, they will return to their old ways of coping because God doesnt seem to be working for them - but maybe they never knew God to begin with?

Concerning scriptural support of a the return of the apostle, it looks like i may just have to put something together... we'll see.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
Those that are His have received His Spirit, and can discern the word correctly, and can divide between good and evil and truth and error
so what do we need New Apostles for?
 
S

silverwind

Guest
21 years ago (and I clearly remember this day) a little old lady from my church called me and said: "The Lord placed a burden on my heart for you to call you today and tell you that I am praying for what you are going through, even though I have no idea what you are going through, but I"m just passing this message on because the Lord told me to." Now this lady had no idea what I was going through and that same morning I broke down completely and cried out to the Lord to send someone to help me get through this (i was pregnant with a child that was diagnosed with a genetic disorder) I had no support, no friends at the time, and felt especially lonely that day,.. then came the phonecall. Now NO ONE can tell me that this little old lady was not a tool the Lord used to help lift me up that day. Call it what you will, she was obedient to the voice of God that very day because I had asked the Lord to send someone.
In my opinion this was a 'prophetic' message prompted by the holy spirit to connect believers who need each other and go through trials. If all believers would be such tools, then the Lord would get HIS work done here on earth the way He intended. (without all the charismatic frills)

SW
 
L

Lifelike

Guest
I am reminded of this great words from Christ.

Matt 16: 4 4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas

We live in that wicked and aduterous generation.

Then again. I forgot. scripture is not Gods word. so we should not heed its warnings. Right?? :rolleyes:
This word was given to the generation that requested a sign of Jesus. The only sign they were given was His ressurection. Take alook at the attitude of those asking for the sign... they hated, and ridiculed Him, they did not believe. God gives signs to those that love Him, because He leads them. Signs and wonders are part of the way God moves in te earth, but see how Jesus treated the parisees, not very friendly hey? But to the lost, the sick, the broken, he healed and performed many signs and wonders, as did the apostles, and other christians ie stephen. The issue with lying signs and wonders in the end times has nothing to do with God or His peopel, it is the counterfiet. This does not mean true signs and wonders will not be worked by the true followers of Christ. The anti christ with move in signs and wonders, to deceive the lost and those without faith in christ. Jesus will work signs and wonders, like He always has, to reconcile people to the Father, and bring the Kingdom of God upon the earth.
 
L

Lifelike

Guest
exactly! If we do not have Gods word to hold onto we are left with nothing.

We might as well be pagans, we would be no better off.

I think Ramons main point here is that the word alone is not enough, but the word without the Spirit kills. It is only with the Spirit that we can know the word, and the bible is a revelation of Jesus, Jesus is Spirit, not ink and paper. The word is valuable beyond measure, but by the Holy Spirit we can know Christ, the True Living Word, and not just know about in from a book.
 
L

Lifelike

Guest
vicious attack?
i've been quite reasonable in light of your reckless words, Ramon.

stop backing away from your claims, or stop making them:



YOU made that claim.
that is a VERY serious claim.

now if you would please have enough integrity to verify your serious claim:

Mark 16:15-20

King James Version (KJV)



15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

But then you believe that this kind of power stopped with the end of the apostolic age? I believe to that those who believe will exhibit these signs. These sign are being manifest all over the world, and I have experienced many of them myself or witnessed them. Unfortunately at present there is not much happening in the west, due to our current state and lukewarmness, but it does happen. And as things escalate toward the end, we will see much more power in our own lives and in the lives of believers. I know its hard to believe if you dont experience these things, and of the millions of testimonies from all around the world that can be read on the internet and books, its easy to just believe they are lies.

But you yourself said you believe that God does miracles zone? He healed you, so are you saying that He doesnt do it through people or through laying on of hands, or through preaching of the word? Does he only do it in answer to prayer, one on one? How does it work?
 
L

Lifelike

Guest
witch hunt?
apparently it's okay with Jesus to test people who claim to be Apostles.

Revelation 2:21
I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.



Fire: this is as far as continuationists ever get...then the HOWEVER comes out.
this is not a matter of angels on a pinhead.

it comes down to ONE THING: if those offices have ceased, everyone claiming to be an Apostle is false.

everybody who claims to be one (or a prophet) readily agrees there are "are many who preach falsehoods out there"....but for some reason THEY are the real deal. or their mentor is.

we've had this discussion many times, and this conversation is going on around the world throughout all Christendom...it's not fun & games at CC because there's nothing else to talk about.

there "are many who preach falsehoods out there" - can we actually look at the NAR? i keep posting source after source, analyses, biblical exegeses...and the only thing coming back is there "are many who preach falsehoods out there, HOWEVER".

this is an EXTREMELY serious matter: there are people who not only intend to take over the church, they are doing it as we speak. and they are doing it at the highest levels, all the way up to, through, and inside the White House. IT'S CALLED DOMINIONISM.



don't know of ANYONE who claimed otherwise.
the issue doesn't even have to be about what they (NAR or otherwise) are PREACHING, but about WHO ARE they, and do they really have the Authority (and POWER) of the First Century Apostles.



here's where you could help me immensely: if i could get a detailed, straight-forward answer on what thismeans/sounds like/looks like/involves, i could perhaps understand where the five-fold ministry/continuationists are coming from:

" listening to what the Holy Spirit has to say"

how do we listen?
how does He speak?
etc.



but: you are a continuationist, who has a developed set of doctrines and beliefs on the five-fold ministry, correct? as well you are pentecostal?

so, you're not exactly without doctrinal and denominational biases, right?



i've noticed the same thing.
but i woumight have ended it this way "humbles....themselves and listen to God by studying His word and in prayer".

yours truly, from
the cessationzone

Hi Zone, would it be possible for you to supply your argument for why you believe that the five fold ministry gifts ceased with the apostles, and what church structure you support today? I know u may have done this before, as you have thousands of posts, so would be happy if you pointed me in the direction of the post. My intention is to get to the root of why you belive it, and what scripures u use to support your position, as I dont believe that an argument for this could possible be airtight and conclusive. And so it probably just comes down to what you choose to believe, instead of what is plainly stated in scripture. I will attempt to do the same with my position, i dont really know if Im up for it, as it would be a major task, piecing together my faith built over 14 yrs lol. But seriously evry scripture I have seen in defence of cessation really cant be proven to mean what u say it means but u just have to choose to believe thats what it means because it supports your experience. I know that you are very learned on the different movements that you oppose, and to tell you the truth I dont blame you because there is much falsity in the church, but just because some have handled truth poorly, or uwisely doesnt automatically make it not truth. I see from your posts that you attack many movements, but i think some of them may have a point, even though they may be a joke in many other respects. I hope you see my heart in this, I love TRUTH, and I hate LIES, i hate what the enemy does to Christs bride, and i see it as our job to defend the truth and expose darkness and free people from bondage. Genuinely. But I cant help but think your position is based on some very simple premises, just maybe one or two, that you cant back conclusively. I cant doubt your intelligence, its obvious your very intelligent, nor your zeal, your very passionate, and I can see that your quite a good person, and that you love God, and you quite a diligent person, not just in your study but in your home life, you conduct yourself in a very healthy way as a person.And God sees that, no one else. But He wants to encourage you with that today, that it pleases Him. But enough about me, lol would love to hear from you on this.
 
L

Lifelike

Guest
thank you Lifelike.
i know you are sincere.

physical healing is not guaranteed or covered in the Atonement.

yes, God surely answers prayers...and He moves in amazing ways in our lives, somehow making all things work for our good, and to His Glory.

we don't need new apostles to bring order to the church; we just need to follow the instructions we were given by the real ones, back in the day. unfortunately, they said things many won't accept....that's why we need new ones i guess.

zone.
If apostles are for today, then the will preach what jesus preached. And they will not contradict the first apostles, not some new doctrine. But will remind us of the doctrine that we have walked away from, and the traditions of men, that we have adhered to over the generations that are ungodly, and unacceptable any longer, as we approach the time of Christs return.
 
L

Lifelike

Guest
a female apostle? interesting.
did she receive a personal commission from Jesus Himself?

Lifelike, your group's mission is to bring order to the church.

here's an article which quotes the New Apostles...is this about right?:


Did the Church have no government for almost 1900 years prior to Wagner’s new apostolic prophetic movement?

Wagner explains this “The second apostolic age began in the year 2001, okay? And in this whole first chapter in this book I argue my point, I think rather… I hope it’s convincingly, that 2001 marks, is the year that marks the second apostolic age, which means for years the government of the church had not been in place since about, you know, the first century or so. It doesn’t mean weren’t apostles and prophets, because the government of the… the foundation of the church according to Ephesians 2:20 is apostles and prophets, Jesus being the chief cornerstone. It doesn’t mean there weren’t apostles and prophets, it means the body of Christ hadn’t recognized them and released them for the office that they had so that they’d function as apostles and prophets in the foundation of the church. But we now have that, I believe we’ve reached our critical mass in the year 2001” (C. Peter Wagner, Arise Prophetic Conference, Gateway Church, San Jose, CA, 10/10/2004)

............


Good intentions, sometimes the best intentions of sincere men can easily not turn out well or bring health to Christ’s body if they are not biblically based. This article is about examining this movement’s concepts, goals and practices to see if they have a biblical precedence for their claims.....

http://www.toddtyszka.com/newaposrest.html

Haha i thought you'd like that, thats why I put it in. Jesus personally commissions Apostles yes. Just like any 5 fold gift. But others will recognise that commissioning. The church went into darkness, see the dark ages, and the catholic total misrepresentation of Christ and His heart. What an ungodly abomination. And we have come out of that, and we still are coming out of her. As far as Wagner goes, i dont think He has it all together, but I believe that the early church, as we can see easily by church history, that the church was persecuted and the enemy tried to destroy her, and then finally went into apostasy, and in the time on Constantine adopted many pagan practices and merged with paganism, ultimately ending in the middle ages and thank God for the reformation started to emerge again into light. During that emense darkness though there would have been many true christians, and many were martyred and there would have been apostles, prophets, pastors teachers and evangelists. And they would have functioned in their gifting. Some would be leaders, others would be led. There would have bee prophets in the time of the inquisition, that foresaw the coming freedoms the church would enter into again. And they would have been martyred because their faith opposed the catholic institution. Many studies have been done on these times obviously, and I guess it just goes to show when the rubber meets the road, its not about titles its about functioning as God has made you and called you to fulfill the work of God. Some are built differently, some are gifted differently, its about getting the job done, do about how good i am because my gift is better, this is contrary to the heart of the gift and the gift giver. Its about function in the body.
 
L

Lifelike

Guest
21 years ago (and I clearly remember this day) a little old lady from my church called me and said: "The Lord placed a burden on my heart for you to call you today and tell you that I am praying for what you are going through, even though I have no idea what you are going through, but I"m just passing this message on because the Lord told me to." Now this lady had no idea what I was going through and that same morning I broke down completely and cried out to the Lord to send someone to help me get through this (i was pregnant with a child that was diagnosed with a genetic disorder) I had no support, no friends at the time, and felt especially lonely that day,.. then came the phonecall. Now NO ONE can tell me that this little old lady was not a tool the Lord used to help lift me up that day. Call it what you will, she was obedient to the voice of God that very day because I had asked the Lord to send someone.
In my opinion this was a 'prophetic' message prompted by the holy spirit to connect believers who need each other and go through trials. If all believers would be such tools, then the Lord would get HIS work done here on earth the way He intended. (without all the charismatic frills)

SW

Amen.... .
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
4,579
9
0
One of the biggest problems with how we do things today, (besides not teaching these things,) is that there is no provision for the leading of the Spirit in our worship services. Very few people will trust His voice to make a call like the one above without at least some practical experience. There is just too much fear of being wrong.

But, how can one practice? Simply by learning to share as the hear from the Spirit. And this must be in an atmosphere of encouragement and grace. There cannot be any judgmental attitude present. Simply a place where one can express the words that they hear from their heart, where the Spirit dwells.

The spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet. This means that the one hearing the voice of the Lord can choose not to speak. They can even hold the words for another time. What happens to most who hear His voice is that they first have no encouragement to speak, and no place where they can learn to speak, and even are many times taught that this is not valid today. And so the Spirit is suppressed and withheld. The costs to us by these things happening is very grave.

Now those who wod believe and head His voice and speak His words are ostracized by much of Christianity today. They must seek peace with God from the outside.

In Christ
 
L

Lifelike

Guest
One of the biggest problems with how we do things today, (besides not teaching these things,) is that there is no provision for the leading of the Spirit in our worship services. Very few people will trust His voice to make a call like the one above without at least some practical experience. There is just too much fear of being wrong.

But, how can one practice? Simply by learning to share as the hear from the Spirit. And this must be in an atmosphere of encouragement and grace. There cannot be any judgmental attitude present. Simply a place where one can express the words that they hear from their heart, where the Spirit dwells.

The spirit of the prophet is subject to the prophet. This means that the one hearing the voice of the Lord can choose not to speak. They can even hold the words for another time. What happens to most who hear His voice is that they first have no encouragement to speak, and no place where they can learn to speak, and even are many times taught that this is not valid today. And so the Spirit is suppressed and withheld. The costs to us by these things happening is very grave.

Now those who wod believe and head His voice and speak His words are ostracized by much of Christianity today. They must seek peace with God from the outside.

In Christ

Yeah, its a terrible state of affairs. Im blessed enough to be envovled with a leader that has created an environemt where the Holy Spirit can speak, and we can learn to move in all of the gifts. Our leader rarely addresses the church in the form of a preach, but rosters many teach teach and preach, and on a Friday night we have about a 2 1/2 hr worship session, which is mainly free worship, spontaneous and prophetic in nature, and when we finish our leader encourages us to share what God has shown us during the worship. It is expected that we can all hear and all have gifts that need developing. Very cool. Very biblical, and very powerful.
 

VW

Banned
Dec 22, 2009
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Yeah, its a terrible state of affairs. Im blessed enough to be envovled with a leader that has created an environemt where the Holy Spirit can speak, and we can learn to move in all of the gifts. Our leader rarely addresses the church in the form of a preach, but rosters many teach teach and preach, and on a Friday night we have about a 2 1/2 hr worship session, which is mainly free worship, spontaneous and prophetic in nature, and when we finish our leader encourages us to share what God has shown us during the worship. It is expected that we can all hear and all have gifts that need developing. Very cool. Very biblical, and very powerful.

You are blessed beyond measure in this. I praise God for the leader He has provided for your flock.

In Christ,
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Just because there is a falling away, and people turn from God does not mean there will not be a remnant, that will be refined and purified. Most of the ones that fall away were not true coverts to begin with ie, they were saved to a church or an idea, and not to Christ. So when things get REALLY tuff, they will return to their old ways of coping because God doesnt seem to be working for them - but maybe they never knew God to begin with?

Concerning scriptural support of a the return of the apostle, it looks like i may just have to put something together... we'll see.
The falling away basically means the true church will dwindle. Much like we have today with all the fake churches being born. look at all the new churches in the last 100 years