Are the dead dead or do they keep on liveing?..............

[shroom2]

SHROOM2


YOU SAID: "Please show me where the bible says it is "a bodily resurrection that will be reunited with the soul".

YOU ALSO SAID: "Where do people get the idea that the soul is somehow a separate entity from the body and can live on
the body dies? Where does that come from?"



Your first question is the best question that you have asked so far in my humble opinion very legitimate question because there is no scripture that actually says it, but it will be answered at the end of my post.

Your second question is easy to answer.

Acts 2:27
Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope.
27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades,

Do you see how this scripture deals with the body and soul…separately? It says the BODY will rest…or you could say… the BODY will sleep…IN HOPE…in hope of what?...THAT IT WOULD NOT SEE CORRUPTION…and it didn’t.

It says the Soul will not be left in Hades..it does not say the Soul will rest with the body.

His (David's) soul will not be left in Hades (the grave). He (David, the person) will be resurrected at the resurrection of the just. Until then he (David, the person) is in the grave.

I believe you incorrectly see this verse as saying that the soul separates itself from the body at death, and lives on.

This is consistent with the story Jesus told about Lazarus. Abrahams bosom was in Hades..all the righteous souls were all held there captive..God made sure they were comforted but as you have pointed out it may have been a paradise, but it sure was in a bad neighborhood. So no soul desired to be left there.

I'm sorry, IMINJC, but the "story" Luke told about Lazarus and the rich man was a parable. I know you do not see it that way, and are convinced that it's literal fact, but it isn't.

Consider This:

GENESIS 3:19
By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.”

God is clearly speaking to the body of man here...Notice how He refers to the “sweat of the brow” and “eating food”…non of which the Soul does. It was the BODY that was formed from the dust of the ground…NOT THE SOUL..it BECAME..when God breathed man’s spirit into the body.

No, God is referring to THE PERSON Adam, who was a living being, a living thing made of body and soul. Adam BECAME a living soul when God breathed life into him.

So what of the Soul at death?

MARK 15:37
And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.

This means Jesus Soul left His body….So as the body returns to the earth from where it came the Soul does not…based on the scripture above it clearly goes somewhere else.

I disagree. (you expected that, right?) You have not shown scripture that clearly says the soul goes somewhere else. You are using a parable as the basis for your theology. Jesus Christ died, and was dead for three days and three nights. Then God, his Father, raised him.

Jesus revealed that before His death burial and resurrection, righteous souls were carried by the Angels to Abraham’s bosom, now the Souls are carried into Jesus presence.

Again, it was a parable. Sorry.

It is obvious that the righteous souls of the dead must be reunited with their resurrected bodies because the righteous Souls are with the Lord.

You are basing nearly your entire doctrine on your belief that Luke 16 is literally true.

The departing soul of a righteous person going into the pressence of the Lord was a belief of Paul's as well.

PHILLIPPIANS 1:20-26
20 according to my earnest expectation and hope that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ will be magnified in my body, whether by life or by death. 21 For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell. 23 For[c] I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. 24 Nevertheless to remain in the flesh is more needful for you. 25 And being confident of this, I know that I shall remain and continue with you all for your progress and joy of faith, 26 that your rejoicing for me may be more abundant in Jesus Christ by my coming to you again.


Paul is trying to decide here if he should embrace death over life.

No, he is not. We have discussed this before, and I provided a link to an explanation of this section of scripture. Paul knew full well that death is an enemy.

Paul said to die is gain..Why would He say that? Notice how he refers to death...DEPART...depart from what?...His BODY.

Depart from LIFE. IE: die.

Where does he believe his soul will go when it departs his body?...to the dust of the ground to sleep?...Of course not..whats the gain in that?...TO BE WITH CHRIST! WHICH IS FAR BETTER.... This is very consitent with the story Jesus told about Lazarus and the Richman as well as the verse in 2Corrinthians 5:1-7 "absent from the body IS to be present with the Lord"

When Christ returns, we WILL depart this body and be given a new one made alive by spirit instead of soul.

If a person dies before Christ returns, his next conscious thought will be the return of Christ. He will be raised from the dead.

AGAIN YOU SAID: "Where do people get the idea that the soul is somehow a separate entity from the body and can live on the body dies? Where does that come from?"

We get it from Paul and Jesus of course, and these are FACTS. Its a FACT that Jesus quoted Abraham, and its also a FACT that Paul said that his soul would be with Jesus when it departed his body.

Now show me where soul sleep is a FACT in scripture, without a list of OT scriptures with an attachment of someones interpretation of what those scriptures may mean. I mean specific FACTS...like I have shown.

I'm sorry, but you are basing your FACTS on your belief that the parable of Luke 16 is literal truth. It is not.

What Parable insinuates or alludes to its reality or existence..

1 Cor 15:
51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1 Thes 4:
13) But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Also, please see my previous post.

what apostle wrote about it or made the statement "I shall remain in the body and know nothing until you resurect me Lord"..... If Soul Sleep is a reality it should be something specific in the Bible that says it plainly without needing a mans interpretation....anything?

IMINJC, I'm sure you don't think so, but you provided TONS of your interpretation of what happens at death. Luke 16 is a parable. You interpret it as literal events.

If dead people are already in heaven, why is a person's hope the return of Christ? The only person raised from death to eternal life so far is Jesus Christ.

I appreciate your taking the time to write what you did. I know you believe I am in error. I believe you are in error.

One thing is certain, we shall ALL find out.

 

[IMINJC]

SHROOM2

A piece of advice if I may...


YOU SAID: Acts 2:
29) Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he [ the man, not just his body ] is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this


What you added here is not part of the original scripture. Plese forgive me if this is a certain Bible translation that I am not aware of, but if you added this you should have added it underneath the scripture or off to the side of the scripture as not to confuse anyone that your opinion is actually part of the verse.

Now if this verse of scripture actually appeared in the Bible as you have presented here with your opinion attached this would qualify as a FACT ...That the Bible does make reference SPECIFICALLY that the soul sleeps with the body at death.

 

[Israel]

John 8:51

51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.


I believe I will never see death and that wherever He is, I am there too. I have crucified the old man and that in death (as it is appointed for all to die once), I only know me crucified. Therefore the life that is in me now is not mine, but Christ's who lives in me. Not the man who was hung on a tree, but He who now lives forever more!

Is this NOT the first resurrection?

Abraham was LIVING when Jesus walked the earth.Isaac, Jacob and all who were "buried" with them were living as God again is NOT the God of the dead but of the living.

 

[shroom2]

John 8:51

51Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.


I believe I will never see death and that wherever He is, I am there too. I have crucified the old man and that in death (as it is appointed for all to die once), I only know me crucified. Therefore the life that is in me now is not mine, but Christ's who lives in me. Not the man who was hung on a tree, but He who now lives forever more!

Is this NOT the first resurrection?

No. The first resurrection will be at the start of the millennial kingdom. (Rev 20)

Abraham was LIVING when Jesus walked the earth.Isaac, Jacob and all who were "buried" with them were living as God again is NOT the God of the dead but of the living.

Abraham was, and still is, dead. God is the God of the living at the resurrections.

 

[shroom2]

SHROOM2

A piece of advice if I may...


YOU SAID: Acts 2:
29) Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he [ the man, not just his body ] is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this


What you added here is not part of the original scripture. Plese forgive me if this is a certain Bible translation that I am not aware of, but if you added this you should have added it underneath the scripture or off to the side of the scripture as not to confuse anyone that your opinion is actually part of the verse.

Now if this verse of scripture actually appeared in the Bible as you have presented here with your opinion attached this would qualify as a FACT ...That the Bible does make reference SPECIFICALLY that the soul sleeps with the body at death.

I put it in square brackets to indicate the words were mine. I will try and be more clear in the future.

It does plainly say that David is both dead and buried. David is dead. In order for you to infer that it means only his body, but his soul lives on, you have to apply your interpretation to what it is saying.

 

[Laodicea]

So what of the Soul at death?

MARK 15:37
And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost.

This means Jesus Soul left His body….So as the body returns to the earth from where it came the Soul does not…based on the scripture above it clearly goes somewhere else.

Jesus revealed that before His death burial and resurrection, righteous souls were carried by the Angels to Abraham’s bosom, now the Souls are carried into Jesus presence.

It is obvious that the righteous souls of the dead must be reunited with their resurrected bodies because the righteous Souls are with the Lord.

The departing soul of a righteous person going into the pressence of the Lord was a belief of Paul's as well.

Do you read what the meanings of the words are? All you are doing is giving your own interpretation.

G1606
ἐκπνέω
ekpneō
ek-pneh'-o
From G1537 and G4154; to expire: - give up the ghost.
G4154
πνέω
pneō
pneh'-o
A primary word; to breathe hard, that is, breeze: - blow. Compare G5594.

The spirit is the breath of life, this is what He gave up when the ghost. If you want more info you can go to the thread what is the spirit and the soul

 

[GreenNnice]

Do you read what the meanings of the words are? All you are doing is giving your own interpretation.

G1606
ἐκπνέω
ekpneō
ek-pneh'-o
From G1537 and G4154; to expire: - give up the ghost.
G4154
πνέω
pneō
pneh'-o
A primary word; to breathe hard, that is, breeze: - blow. Compare G5594.

The spirit is the breath of life, this is what He gave up when the ghost. If you want more info you can go to the thread what is the spirit and the soul

---
But did he give up his soul?

Did he give up his body when he died?

Did he give up the Holy Ghost , which is 'the Spirit' of man (and woman) that goes back to God?.

Does ir make sense if God talks about our bodies not rotting in a grave, while our Spirits soar among angels in Heaven, and, wouldn't that mean 'hope.' I don't know about you but I want to keep my individualality and I sure HOPE my dead in the ground body gets reunited with my Spirit when the Rapture comes.

----+----
Food for thought, and, alzó, the parable of Lazarus seems both historical account and prophesy. Now, I don't know about you , but what is merely 'lesson' and what is 'real meaning' from Jesus I would not want to get wrong and pick and choose my meanings of what I THINK is fake and what I THINK is real. For my picking and choosing would only lead to others receiving false teachings and false truth.
---
I like your intelligent, civil debate , of late, Christ bros and sis', I pray God brings all to a great understanding of His Truth , for you , what is best understood by you to be at peace with your individual beliefs as believers. God's peace given to us passeth all understanding. Just accept 'it.'

In Christ alone, however you believe, may ALL your lives be based in Christ alone, what was done for us on the cross, on the soil, what IS His promise to us that we ALL already know WILL come true. Eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord ! Praise be to God ! Hallelujah

 

[peacefulbeliever]

---
But did he give up his soul?

Did he give up his body when he died?

Did he give up the Holy Ghost , which is 'the Spirit' of man (and woman) that goes back to God?.

Does ir make sense if God talks about our bodies not rotting in a grave, while our Spirits soar among angels in Heaven, and, wouldn't that mean 'hope.' I don't know about you but I want to keep my individualality and I sure HOPE my dead in the ground body gets reunited with my Spirit when the Rapture comes.

-----snip----

I hope your body gets matched up with "your spirit" and not someone elses'

I like your intelligent, civil debate , of late, Christ bros and sis', I pray God brings all to a great
understanding of His Truth , for you , what is best understood by you to be at peace with your individual beliefs as believers. God's peace given to us passeth all understanding. Just accept 'it.'

In Christ alone, however you believe, may ALL your lives be based in Christ alone, what was done for us on the cross, on the soil, what IS His promise to us that we ALL already know WILL come true. Eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord ! Praise be to God ! Hallelujah

I also like the thread when it is civil whether we believe the same or not - it makes it nice.

 

[GreenNnice]

I hope your body gets matched up with "your spirit" and not someone elses'
Uh, yeah, pb, that could look ugly , like Goldie Hawn and Meryl Streep looked in the end of that movie, 'Death Becomes Her.'
--
And, on a serious noté , like Paul, I have full confidence that not only will I immediately be with My God after I die I will also trust 1infinity% that God will get my body and Spirit matched up perfectly, matching #s, LOL, I will be a 'classic' but with ALL new parts on inside that live me forever with Him. Glory be to God


I also like the thread when it is civil whether we believe the same or not - it makes it nice.

-----+----
Yes, this topic does not keep ANY of us from being with our Saviour after we die. And, even if it did keep us from salvation, one should STILL say their thoughts in Love.

Blessings to you, pb, may God continue to shower you with His blessings for arguing peaceably yea though it seems JUST NIT RIGHT , JUST S-NOT RIGHT , JUST sUH-OH!

NOT RIGHT

 

[shroom2]

...I don't know about you but I want to keep my individualality and I sure HOPE my dead in the ground body gets reunited with my Spirit when the Rapture comes...

God knows YOU, and he will raise YOU from the dead.

I trust Him.

 

[IMINJC]

So what have we discovered so far about whether or not the Soul sleeps or not after death.

I have personally discovered and not surprised that no one is going to change their opinion even if faced with definite facts of scriptural proof. This is why it has never been my goal to change anyone's opinion, instead it has been my goal to post the truth as I have come to know it, one that is based only on the FACTS of the Apostles doctrine so that the less
knowledgable who frequent this thread can see the facts and have a fair chance to judge for themselves to determine what the truth actually is.

A FACT of scripture is what all doctrine should extend from. It is very dangerous to create or to support a doctrine that is not based on FACT of scripture. As a matter of fact, it is a red flag warning that any such doctrine is a false doctrine that does not extend from a known FACT of scripture. A FACT of scripture is very easy to indentify. For example..The Bible says in John 11:35 that Jesus Wept. So I can honestly say that it is a FACT that the Bible declares that Jesus Wept. So if I were to start, or support a particular doctrine based on this verse, it would be a SOUND DOCTRINE, because It's backed by a FACT of scriptural proof. Lets say for some reason that there were believers who's doctrine suffered in some way if they taught the Biblical FACT that Jesus actually wept. Anything that they would declare would have no bases of FACTUAL scriptural proof, therefore it would not be SOUND DOCTRINE. They may be able to show you where it declares:

Isaiah 53:5
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

And say.."You see...it doen't say anything in there about Him weeping..It only says He was bruised". They may be able to present a commentary or video from the mind of some like minded believer of why the word "Weep" dosn't really mean "Crying," but the thing that they will never show you is the scripture that states "JESUS DID NOT WEEP"....all they can do is create a fog around the FACT by presenting their opinions, theories, and personal interpretations which all are birthed from the mind of some man or womans imagination who posesses some kind of false gift of so called revelation on the subject. In essence they take the FACT and bend it to fit their doctrine. I can't describe to you how dangerous this practice is. As I said before, when you face a FACT of scripture and your doctrine disagrees with that FACT you hae no other chioce but to adjust your doctrine to that FACT.

The doctrine of Soul Sleep is exactly what I have described above. It is not based on any FACT of scripture that anyone can produce to date. Look how long this thread is...and not ONE scripture of FACT has been produced. It exists only by mans false interpretation of God's Word. There is no scripture that CLEARLY states in itself that the Soul sleeps at death.
Another thing that I have noticed is that those who support soul consciousness after death has never had to EXPLAIN AWAY a FACTUAL verse of scripture in this debate. On the other side the soul sleep believers posts are primarily that.....posts that seek to explain away FACTS of scripture or just outright deny them as FACTS. Here is my example of this:

It is a FACT....that Jesus says in Luke 16:25 that Abraham talked.......

Soul Conciousness after death supporters say.....It's fine the way its written...we believe Jesus at what He says..if He says Abraham spoke then he spoke. And our doctrine extends from that FACT.

Soul Sleep after death supporters say....Wait a minute..you can't accept it how it's written because it's a parable..He was only telling a story..a story is not real..Abraham may have been real but the story isn't. And they go on WITH THEIR OPINIONS absolutely no FACTS...and their doctrine extends from that...OPINIONS.

Again It is a FACT that in Phillipians 1:21 Paul said that "TO DIE IS GAIN"....And in Phillipians 1:23 It is also a FACT that Paul said that when he leaves his body (at death) that he was going to be with the Lord.

Soul Conciousness after death supporters say..... Oh we are with you Paul...we see the advantage in dying as you did since we can be with Jesus which will be far better than staying here on earth in the body...And our doctrine extends from this FACT.

Soul Sleep after death supporters say....Oh wait a minute...that's not what that really means...you need to hear this commentary on the subject of that...you don't understand my OPINION of the soul or spirit. And they go on WITH THEIR OPINIONS absolutely no FACTS...and their doctrine extends from that...OPINIONS.
　
　　
　

 

[shroom2]

Yes, it is a "fact" that Jesus said Abraham spoke. Jesus was speaking a parable.

As long as you believe that the parable of Lazarus and the rich man is literal truth, we won't get anywhere.

 

[redemption]

Again... note to self, if scripture contradicts the teaching of my church refer to the the scripture as a parable. (fable?) odd... please show me where this scripture is identified as a parable. thanks.

 

[redemption]

Jesus told a parable of a fictitious hell? and a fictitious Abraham in heaven... ???????????????

 

[shroom2]

Again... note to self, if scripture contradicts the teaching of my church refer to the the scripture as a parable. (fable?) odd... please show me where this scripture is identified as a parable. thanks.

Laodicea did a very nice job here:

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-dead-do-they-keep-liveing-14.html#post651463

 

[Laodicea]

---
But did he give up his soul?

Did he give up his body when he died?

Did he give up the Holy Ghost , which is 'the Spirit' of man (and woman) that goes back to God?.

Does ir make sense if God talks about our bodies not rotting in a grave, while our Spirits soar among angels in Heaven, and, wouldn't that mean 'hope.' I don't know about you but I want to keep my individualality and I sure HOPE my dead in the ground body gets reunited with my Spirit when the Rapture comes.

----+----
Food for thought, and, alzó, the parable of Lazarus seems both historical account and prophesy. Now, I don't know about you , but what is merely 'lesson' and what is 'real meaning' from Jesus I would not want to get wrong and pick and choose my meanings of what I THINK is fake and what I THINK is real. For my picking and choosing would only lead to others receiving false teachings and false truth.
---
I like your intelligent, civil debate , of late, Christ bros and sis', I pray God brings all to a great understanding of His Truth , for you , what is best understood by you to be at peace with your individual beliefs as believers. God's peace given to us passeth all understanding. Just accept 'it.'

In Christ alone, however you believe, may ALL your lives be based in Christ alone, what was done for us on the cross, on the soil, what IS His promise to us that we ALL already know WILL come true. Eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord ! Praise be to God ! Hallelujah

When Jesus died He gave up the breath of Life (spirit). Another verse Jesus said "Into thy hands I commend my spirit. The spirit and soul are 2 different things. For more info see the thread called 'What is the spirit and the soul'

 

[Spiritual_Plague]

shroom2,

The scenarios Jesus gives in the parables are things that could actually happen...otherwise they wouldn't be relatable to truth.

So even if you want to still believe it is a parable, it doesn't change that even parables are based on things that could happen. The "parable", if you want to call it that, shows that Jesus clearly believed and taught that there is a body and a spirit, and the spirit is conscious after death.

When the disciples saw Jesus after the resurrection, what did they say??

Luke 24:36-37
"Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, "Peace to you." 37 But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit."

They thought they were seeing Jesus' spirit- which was alive, conscious, and speaking to them!!

What did Jesus say about that???

"I've taught you for 3 1/2 years and you've had the scriptures to learn from at Synagogue...you should know that a spirit isn't conscious after it has departed the body....therefore I cannot be a spirit. This proves to you that I am not a spirit and am actually standing in front of you right now" ?

....not even close

He identified the truth of their statement and confirmed that they could actually be seeing a spirit (which would obviously conscious apart from the body according to them)...but He went on to say that He is not a spirit, and the proof was that He had flesh and bones (a spirit does not have flesh and bones).

Luk 24:39-40
"Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have." 40 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet."


The fact is that Jesus believed and taught that the spirit is conscious apart from the body, so I guess that the main issue really is...if Jesus was actually speaking the doctrine of God, or if He was speaking on His own authority.

John 7:16-17
16 Jesus [fn] answered them and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. 17 "If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or [whether] I speak on My own [authority]."'

 

[Percho]

shroom2,

The scenarios Jesus gives in the parables are things that could actually happen...otherwise they wouldn't be relatable to truth.

So even if you want to still believe it is a parable, it doesn't change that even parables are based on things that could happen. The "parable", if you want to call it that, shows that Jesus clearly believed and taught that there is a body and a spirit, and the spirit is conscious after death.

When the disciples saw Jesus after the resurrection, what did they say??

Luke 24:36-37
"Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, "Peace to you." 37 But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit."

They thought they were seeing Jesus' spirit- which was alive, conscious, and speaking to them!!

What did Jesus say about that???

"I've taught you for 3 1/2 years and you've had the scriptures to learn from at Synagogue...you should know that a spirit isn't conscious after it has departed the body....therefore I cannot be a spirit. This proves to you that I am not a spirit and am actually standing in front of you right now" ?

....not even close

He identified the truth of their statement and confirmed that they could actually be seeing a spirit (which would obviously conscious apart from the body according to them)...but He went on to say that He is not a spirit, and the proof was that He had flesh and bones (a spirit does not have flesh and bones).

Luk 24:39-40
"Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have." 40 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet."


The fact is that Jesus believed and taught that the spirit is conscious apart from the body, so I guess that the main issue really is...if Jesus was actually speaking the doctrine of God, or if He was speaking on His own authority.

John 7:16-17
16 Jesus [fn] answered them and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. 17 "If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or [whether] I speak on My own [authority]."'

My first post. Hello to all. I just want to say it matters not, if parable or not.

The soul of Jesus was resurrected from Hades. Fact.
Hades the realm of the dead all arrive there when death, the gates into Hades, comes to them.
The gates of Hades, death, shall not prevail against the church.
Following the in a moment in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump it is said then, at this very moment, shall come to pass the saying O death where thy sting; O Hades where thy victory.
But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning [him] to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up.
And in Hades he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Eyes, tongue, finger, There is a resurrection taking place in this passage.

One more point in 1 Thess 4:14 God will bring with Jesus those who sleep in Jesus by the, even so, and the even so is the resurrection.

 

[IMINJC]

SPIRITUAL PLAGUE

YOU SAID: "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have." 40 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet."

Excellent posting...very good point. Another blown opportunuity by Jesus to set the record sraight that the Soul really does sleep at the point of death huh.

 

[shroom2]

SPIRITUAL PLAGUE

YOU SAID: "Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have." 40 When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet."

Excellent posting...very good point. Another blown opportunuity by Jesus to set the record sraight that the Soul really does sleep at the point of death huh.

How does that prove that the dead aren't really dead?