Ok now to why I asked if God chose Isreal. Obviously when we read the OT it is very clear that Isreal is God's chosen people. They did not choose God, God chose them. God "elected" or "predestined" Isreal as His people. God also "predestined" to save Isreal to Himself...heaven. I see this clear in Scripture as God constantly tells us that He will save His people. God tells us that Isreal will be with Him. God follows thru on His Word so one day He will restore Isreal to Himself.
Now when Paul says "all Isreal shall be saved" this is what I believe. Somehow during the end times the "remnant" of Isreal will come to Christ. I believe that before Christ returns we wil see a large amount of Jews coming to Christ. God will "follow thru" on His promise to Isreal. God predestined Isreal unto salvation.
I believe it is the same here in "NT times". God draws (elko) us to Him. So yes I believe in predestination. I believe that God has "chosen" each one of us as His children before time and has predestined each of us to glory with Him. I don't know exactly why God predestines some and not others but because God is Sovereign I have faith that He has a reason. Because God is Sovereign He knows things I don't completely understand.
But please before you accuse me of "hyper Calvinism" or even just plain "Calvinism" or any other "denomination" understand that I came to my view from study of God's Word not study of what someone else said. Sure I read and listen to others but I rely upon the Holy Spirit for understanding and this is what He has shown me.
I'm on a road trip for work and posting from my hotel before I leave for work, so I have to be brief. I'll address your posts more thoroughly some time over the next few days.
I'm happy to at least see that you seemingly recognize that only "a remnant" of Jews will be saved and Paul clearly explained for us why this will be:
"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." (Romans 11:1-6)
There will ultimately be "a remnant" of Jews saved and they will be saved "according to THE ELECTION of grace" and not "of works". Well, what does that mean? I mean, c'mon folks, we ought to all know exactly what that means because the distinction between seeking to be saved via the "works" of the law and seeking to be saved via "faith by grace" is the bedrock of Paul's epistles and really the bedrock of the entire Bible. IOW, this "remnant" isn't going to be saved because God somehow "predestined" them in the manner in which you and certain others here are describing, but this "remnant" will be saved through faith in Christ. Again, in Romans chapter 2, Paul had previously described for us all exactly who is "a Jew" in God's eyes:
"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Romans 2:28-29)
In God's eyes, "a Jew" is one who is "circumcised in the heart" or "in the spirit" and I hope that you all recognize this already. When Paul laid out this distinction, he wasn't introducing some new doctrine because this same distinction had been made already many times in the Old Testament. Here are some examples:
"Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked." (Deuteronomy 10:16)
Way back in Deuteronomy, Moses instructed the children of Israel to "circumcise the foreskins of their hearts". Was Moses instructing them to do something that wasn't possible because God allegedly "predestined" these people for something different? Again, we're back to "the carrot on a stick god" who commands something which allegedly isn't even possible because he's never even given the people whom he commands the ability to obey such commands. Can't you see how utterly ridiculous and contemptible this teaching is?
"Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings." (Jeremiah 4:4)
Here, "the LORD" commands the children of Israel to "circumcise themselves" by "taking away the foreskins of their hearts" or else "His fury is going to come forth like fire and burn that none can quench it because of the evil of their doings". People like you, with your unbiblical definition of "predestination", would have us to believe that the God Whom we serve commanded these people to do something that they were totally incapable of doing because He hadn't "elected" them for the same. This sadistic "god" whom you and others are here portraying delighted in wiping said people out in the fury of his wrath for something which they had no ability to obey or do. Can't you see that? It's nonsense and it's not the God of the Bible. I'm going to include an Old Testament verse about "uncircumcised ears" and I'll explain why in a moment:
"To whom shall I speak, and give warning, that they may hear? behold, their ear is uncircumcised, and they cannot hearken: behold, the word of the LORD is unto them a reproach; they have no delight in it." (Jeremiah 6:10)
Okay.
So we've got Jews with both "uncircumcised hearts and uncircumcised ears" as far back as the Old Testament, right? With this reminder before us, let's look at the following:
"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it." (Acts 7:51-53)
In the same manner in which their forefathers who were "uncircumcised in heart and ears ALWAYS RESISTED THE HOLY GHOST" via the mouths of the prophets who "showed before the coming of the Just One" or who foretold of the coming Christ, these Jews to whom Stephen was then speaking were similarly "ALWAYS RESISTING THE HOLY GHOST". What was "THE HOLY GHOST" trying to get them to do if not to repent and embrace "the Just One" or the Messiah or Christ? You and others would have us to believe that these people were "predestined" to damnation before the foundation of the world and that God was sadistically teasing them by striving with them via "THE HOLY GHOST" even though they could never allegedly positively respond to such strivings. This "god" whom you're presenting is A SADISTIC MONSTER and if that offends you, then, I'm sorry, but too bad. This "god" that you and others here are promoting offends me greatly and more than that this "god" offends the One True God greatly.
You seem like a nice guy, elf3, but I simply cannot let this "god" that you and others here are promoting to go unchallenged. He is not the God of the Bible.
