Are Women Not Allowed to Preach in Every Case?
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Women can teach
1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.
3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.
3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
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Actually, that may be a bit of a grey area as Paul said that he doesn't permit women to speak in church. It doesn't say that God does not permit it. Big difference. I believe that what Paul said regarding this was his own personal opinion based on the current traditions at that time and culture. There are examples in the bible where women had positions of authority. It is most definitely not crystal clear, that is where wisdom and discernment come into play.
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You are mistaken. The apostle Peter -- a very strict Jew -- placed ALL OF PAUL'S EPISTLES alongside the Scriptures (the Tanakh).
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction. (2 Peter 3:15,16)
Which meant that Paul's personal opinion had no bearing on Scripture truth. If he used "I" it was with apostolic authority and under divine inspiration. What he meant is that he was speaking as God had directed him. Therefore his recorded words are deemed to be the Word of God.
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. (1 Cor 2:16)
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the Word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the Word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. (1 Thess 2:13)
All of Paul's epistles are a part of the New Testament, and genuine Christians have never suggested at any time that some Scriptures are merely Paul's personal opinions, to be rejected as some deem fit!
And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction. (2 Peter 3:15,16)
Which meant that Paul's personal opinion had no bearing on Scripture truth. If he used "I" it was with apostolic authority and under divine inspiration. What he meant is that he was speaking as God had directed him. Therefore his recorded words are deemed to be the Word of God.
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. (1 Cor 2:16)
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the Word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the Word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe. (1 Thess 2:13)
All of Paul's epistles are a part of the New Testament, and genuine Christians have never suggested at any time that some Scriptures are merely Paul's personal opinions, to be rejected as some deem fit!
"We cannot make void biblical doctrine solely based on a story elsewhere"
That is not just a story somewhere else, that is the word of God. Like it or not it is an establishment of a normative in the word of God women preaching. Did Peter say that the Pentecost experience Joel prophecied about was not for women? or did Peter quote what was said which included women.
we cannot make void biblical doctrine solely based on a story elsewhere
No one is doing that, women can preach, which is speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Why does a man think he can control what we see the Holy Spirit doing in the old and New Testament?
Which church doctrine are you referring to?
That woman can't speak at all or they are not to be Pastors?
because many men make excuses for divorcing and remarrying And Jesus and paul Both said that was not supposed to be.
You tell me scripturally who is incorrect biblical standing
a Women Evangelist or a man Pastor who has been divorced?
That is not just a story somewhere else, that is the word of God. Like it or not it is an establishment of a normative in the word of God women preaching. Did Peter say that the Pentecost experience Joel prophecied about was not for women? or did Peter quote what was said which included women.
we cannot make void biblical doctrine solely based on a story elsewhere
No one is doing that, women can preach, which is speaking under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Why does a man think he can control what we see the Holy Spirit doing in the old and New Testament?
Which church doctrine are you referring to?
That woman can't speak at all or they are not to be Pastors?
because many men make excuses for divorcing and remarrying And Jesus and paul Both said that was not supposed to be.
You tell me scripturally who is incorrect biblical standing
a Women Evangelist or a man Pastor who has been divorced?
God often allows things because of the hardness of men's hearts. Divorce is one that is often seen through scripture as way less than ideal but because men are hard hearted as an act of compassion God tolerates it.
Men who are divorced ought not to be considered eligible for a pastorate. Women are not Gods first choice but at times God uses them to shame men who ought to stand up an devote themselves to ministry. Jewish heads of household are men not women.
It goes on today because many congregations will not tolerate a strong man as a pastor.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Men who are divorced ought not to be considered eligible for a pastorate. Women are not Gods first choice but at times God uses them to shame men who ought to stand up an devote themselves to ministry. Jewish heads of household are men not women.
It goes on today because many congregations will not tolerate a strong man as a pastor.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Me liking something has nothing to do with the issue of women speaking in a church. I already presented scripture as evidence, not my words or anybody else’s words.
Remember, that, the things that were written by Paul were so that:
Thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God (1 Timothy 3:15).
And before he wrote that scripture he wrote this scripture:
Let the woman learn in silence...I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence (1 Timothy 2:12).
So the question is:
Are we going to obey scripture in order to behave ourselves properly in the house of God, or not?
Let all things be done decently and in order (1 Corinthians 14:40).
Remember, that, the things that were written by Paul were so that:
Thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God (1 Timothy 3:15).
And before he wrote that scripture he wrote this scripture:
Let the woman learn in silence...I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence (1 Timothy 2:12).
So the question is:
Are we going to obey scripture in order to behave ourselves properly in the house of God, or not?
Let all things be done decently and in order (1 Corinthians 14:40).
Nope, do not let women preach to you nor let them try to teach you, they will only mislead you. If any woman has a question or thing she needs to know about God, then let her ask her husband in privacy.
1 Corinthians 14:34-35
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1 Corinthians 14:34-35
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
so what is your take on 1 Corinthians chapter 11?
was this letter to the church in Corinth?
Why did Paul in the Letter give the doctrine of women speaking in a church under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit then in chapter 14 tell them not to speak? Is it possible the Context of them both is different depending on the situation?
i.e a woman speaking and disrupting service and a women who is prophesying.
1cor 11:5
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head:
clearly, women were allowed to pray in a church setting and clearly, they could be heard praying too.
in chapter 14 of 1cor why is it one does not see it doe not say
When the man speaks in an unknown tongue? The gifts of the Holy Spirit are not exclusionary as some men would want it to be.
Women are filled with the Holy Spirit the same as a man is.
And the Holy Spirit uses them as he does a man. They are not to hold the office of Pastor.
was this letter to the church in Corinth?
Why did Paul in the Letter give the doctrine of women speaking in a church under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit then in chapter 14 tell them not to speak? Is it possible the Context of them both is different depending on the situation?
i.e a woman speaking and disrupting service and a women who is prophesying.
1cor 11:5
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head:
clearly, women were allowed to pray in a church setting and clearly, they could be heard praying too.
in chapter 14 of 1cor why is it one does not see it doe not say
When the man speaks in an unknown tongue? The gifts of the Holy Spirit are not exclusionary as some men would want it to be.
Women are filled with the Holy Spirit the same as a man is.
And the Holy Spirit uses them as he does a man. They are not to hold the office of Pastor.
Paul's epistles are scripture and inspired by the Holy Spirit.
As I stated in an earlier post, all scripture is truthfully stated but not all scripture is a statement of truth. Take the book of Ecclesiastes for example. Solomon was obviously depressed and cynical and it shows in his writing. A lot of it, while it is indeed scripture, is not something that is worth emulating or even scripturally sound for a Christion to follow. Guy had a serous attitude problem.
I agree with you in that Paul's personal opinion may or not be scripture truth. Again, there is a big difference to what Paul does not permit and what God does not permit. While I enjoyed the verses you provided and considered, I don't see how that equates equivocally that what Paul does not permit is the same as what God does not permit.
In any case, this is not a salvation issue.
There may be those men, who agree with Paul that women should be silent in church and should hold no position of authority, but they believe this, not because of scripture but because it conveniently supports their narrative that women are somehow inferior to men. Any such bias must be put aside when contemplating what Paul has said about women. Again, this is where wisdom and discernment comes into play.
As I stated in an earlier post, all scripture is truthfully stated but not all scripture is a statement of truth. Take the book of Ecclesiastes for example. Solomon was obviously depressed and cynical and it shows in his writing. A lot of it, while it is indeed scripture, is not something that is worth emulating or even scripturally sound for a Christion to follow. Guy had a serous attitude problem.
I agree with you in that Paul's personal opinion may or not be scripture truth. Again, there is a big difference to what Paul does not permit and what God does not permit. While I enjoyed the verses you provided and considered, I don't see how that equates equivocally that what Paul does not permit is the same as what God does not permit.
In any case, this is not a salvation issue.
There may be those men, who agree with Paul that women should be silent in church and should hold no position of authority, but they believe this, not because of scripture but because it conveniently supports their narrative that women are somehow inferior to men. Any such bias must be put aside when contemplating what Paul has said about women. Again, this is where wisdom and discernment comes into play.
It is situational.
Let’s compare scripture with scripture.
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head (1 Corinthians 11:5).
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak...for it is a shame for women to speak in the church (1 Corinthians 14:34-35).
So with knowledge of the fact that women are to be silent in the churches, and not even permitted to ask questions in the church, we can now understand that the praying and prophesying of the women is to take place outside the church.
We can agree that Paul did not say that any woman praying or prophesying IN THE CHURCH, can’t we?
Let’s compare scripture with scripture.
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head (1 Corinthians 11:5).
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak...for it is a shame for women to speak in the church (1 Corinthians 14:34-35).
So with knowledge of the fact that women are to be silent in the churches, and not even permitted to ask questions in the church, we can now understand that the praying and prophesying of the women is to take place outside the church.
We can agree that Paul did not say that any woman praying or prophesying IN THE CHURCH, can’t we?
Pardon me for interjecting here.
But this is quite offensive.
I have turned over all my paths to where the scripture leads. I surrender all my biases or prejudices to the direction of scripture.
And your last comment about using YOUR discernment and wisdom:
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding (Proverbs 3:5).
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom (Proverbs 9:10).
Your commentary about an inspired writer letting his feelings come through into the word of God is astounding. This shows that you don’t have the slightest fear toward the word of God. And if you don’t start with a fearful awe at the word, then you haven’t even attained to the beginning of wisdom.
To this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word (Isaiah 66:2).
But this is quite offensive.
I have turned over all my paths to where the scripture leads. I surrender all my biases or prejudices to the direction of scripture.
And your last comment about using YOUR discernment and wisdom:
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding (Proverbs 3:5).
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom (Proverbs 9:10).
Your commentary about an inspired writer letting his feelings come through into the word of God is astounding. This shows that you don’t have the slightest fear toward the word of God. And if you don’t start with a fearful awe at the word, then you haven’t even attained to the beginning of wisdom.
To this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word (Isaiah 66:2).
Let's just spell it ALL out, and get rid of the cherry picking haters on this thread.
WOMEN!
THINGS YOU CAN NOT DO:
Cut, color, dye your hair
Wear makeup
Wear jewlery
Wear anything that is tight, or reveals cleavage or legs
Speak in the Church
Teach
Attend Sunday School
Attend Bible Studies
Read a Bible
ALL OF THESE were expressly forbid by the Apostle Paul.
SO............everyone here who attends a Church that enforces the teachings please provide the Name of the Church you attend. Street Address, City, State, and Telephone Number of that Church as well as the name of the Pastor and his Telephone Number/Address
IF your Church does not enforce all of these teachings.........then please
JUST SHUT UP
WOMEN!
THINGS YOU CAN NOT DO:
Cut, color, dye your hair
Wear makeup
Wear jewlery
Wear anything that is tight, or reveals cleavage or legs
Speak in the Church
Teach
Attend Sunday School
Attend Bible Studies
Read a Bible
ALL OF THESE were expressly forbid by the Apostle Paul.
SO............everyone here who attends a Church that enforces the teachings please provide the Name of the Church you attend. Street Address, City, State, and Telephone Number of that Church as well as the name of the Pastor and his Telephone Number/Address
IF your Church does not enforce all of these teachings.........then please
JUST SHUT UP
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