Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??

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Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,386
5,725
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How? Where did the scripture say that God will create an infallible book? Have you read Deuteronomy 13?
I thought you had made some sort of typing mistake because your comment about the NT writers was so far off every vein of Christian Orthodoxy.

If your purpose is to downgrade scripture what use is there in citing Deuteronomy?
It simply doesn't work. Moreover it won't be accepted here. This is a Bible discussion forum.
 
Nov 11, 2018
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It is not my intention to cause an argument or division among the faithful with that question just discussion in a Christian and civil manner.

I have always simply posted the Word of God as it is written. I post this question in order to properly attempt to teach the Word of God....PEROID!

1 Timothy 3:1-2.........
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".

According to the written Word of God, a Pastor can only be a "Male/Man".

Now, before anyone argues that point or disagree with me, remember that the "One" who said..."In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" also was the "One" who said......
"if a "MAN" desire the office of a bishop".

The old Major did not have anything whatsoever to do with what Jesus Christ placed into the Word of God. The old Major just reads it and accepts it as it is written so your disagreements will be with Christ and not me!!!!

Now the question must be WHY would God do that?

1 Timothy 2:13-14 .....
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

It’s important to understand that Paul does not prohibit women from teaching in all contexts (Titus 2:3; Acts 18:25-26), only from teaching the Bible to men in the church.

Notice that Paul prohibits women from doing two distinct things.

1.
Women may not teach the Bible to men in the church.
2.
Women may not exercise authority over men in the church.

Teaching and exercising authority in the church are the two primary responsibilities of elders, pastors, or bishops. Thus, women are not to hold the office of pastor, but neither are they to perform these particular functions of a pastor over men in the church.

Again, for the inquisitive minds the question is still...WHY is that the case.

I will give you what I think is the reason behinds God's direction.

1.
The creation order is the first reason Paul gives for prohibiting women from teaching or exercising authority in the church
.
Paul doesn’t ground his command in cultural considerations or a particular problem with the women in the Ephesian church. Rather, he grounds his command in creation. He says that the reason women are not to teach or exercise authority over men in the church is that....
“Adam was formed first, then Eve”. Paul means that God established Adam as the head and authority of his wife, Eve. God designed men to lead.

2.
The nature of women is the second reason Paul gives for prohibiting them from teaching or exercising authority in the church.
Paul says, “Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor” (1 Tim 2:14). Paul is saying something about the natural constitution of men and women, that men as a class are naturally more fitted to teach and have authority in the church, but women are not.
Dr. Wayne Grudem says, “This is by far the most common viewpoint in the history of the interpretation of this passage” (Evangelical Feminism & Biblical Truth 70).
Paul was an a man who was inspired greatly as I see it.... but so was Deborah. I've often wondered why a man need know if he is greater than woman... if he is truly greater than woman. Is this not a question for God? And why should man feel the need to be superior to anything? Is man so lacking self-esteem that he need to carry himself above anything... even if it the beast of the field? Is not the love of God enough to carry him? Why does he seek superiority over any simple thing? And even as we are not to abominate ourselves with unclean creatures... did not God send unclean creatures to men in some verses? Ergo, let God decide when and where to carry our lives... and as Jesus taught... let truth be the thing we listen to daily... not the ramblings of a man's or woman's lost mind. Godspeed.
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
6,064
3,414
113
There's no where that tells them to not share the kingdom because women were created in the likeness of God

John 4:28 Then the woman left her water jar, went back into the town, and said to the people, “Come, see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Christ?” So they left the town and made their way toward Jesus.

Also the apostle Paul, Peter, Acts and Jude are all false writings and all true believers will be outcasted by everyone. There is not one true church because the entire world hates the truth
To newcomers I usually say "Welcome to CC", but if you actually believe what you wrote here, I will have to call you a false teacher, and withhold my welcome. Please don't derail this thread with unrelated topics.
His heresies got him an all expenses paid trip to Banville.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
372
83
OK so that's all well and good. I was a crisis counselor at one that hosted shows for TBN, via satellite for the whole world to see. The idea was that reaching and sharing the Gospel with world is the great commission and now we have better tools than 2000 years ago. That was nearly 40 years ago. We had 100's of students. 1,000's of folks would come to worship 3X every Sunday. We had a very large staff that need women to minister to women. I don't care if you have church in a garage, on a beach, in a park or in a huge theater or stadium. Like Billy Grahams harvest festivals did. But many ministries need female ministers. Like Christian battered or homeless women's shelters.

It's ok with me, if your church dosn't have as much. Your church is needed too.
May I quote you..... We had a very large staff that need women to minister to women

I have never and will never say that women cannot minister to women.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
372
83
That's great. I prefer small house gatherings myself.
That doesn't mean there is no place for big churches or for Christians to use modern technologies to minister.
It's all good.
Is it? Sad to say you don't say why.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,386
5,725
113
Is it? Sad to say you don't say why.
I didn't think it needed any elaboration.
God uses small gatherings, small & medium sized churches and large assemblies.
Big assemblies resemble heaven with thousands praising him. Small gatherings might minister to the individual better.
Technologies are tools. Parchment & ink was the technology at one time, then printing & bound books,
now we have keyboards & screens. All can be used for either good or evil.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
8,268
5,516
113
Anaheim, Cali.
May I quote you..... We had a very large staff that need women to minister to women

I have never and will never say that women cannot minister to women.
Absolutely! If I have any objections to female pastors it not the women that I object to it's the misuse of the word pastor. Not even Peter or Paul were called or titled 'Pastor'.
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
1,559
656
113
New International Version
Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task.

New Living Translation
This is a trustworthy saying: “If someone aspires to be a church leader, he desires an honorable position.”

English Standard Version
The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task.

Berean Study Bible
This is a trustworthy saying: If anyone aspires to be an overseer, he desires a noble task.

Berean Literal Bible
Trustworthy is the saying: If anyone aspires to overseership, he is desirous of a good work.
5100 [e]
tis
τις
anyone
IPro-NMS

The KJV has it wrong using the word "man". AAMOF, KJV also got the name "bishop" wrong also.
Anyone who desires to search deep in the scriptures should begin by first closing their KJV & finding a more accurate version, such as the ESV or NASB.
checking the Greek should help a great deal as well.

"usurping authority" (KJV) also has a special meaning as well, nothing of like it seems to read.

Sorry folks, I definitely have problems with people who quote "one verse wonders" from the Bible or twist the verse totally out of context to mean what they want, turning these subjects purposely on their heads to start a theological free-for-all. I would recommend staying out of such threads & find one to build up one another in the most holy faith. I'm following my own advice & leaving.
 

justahumanbeing

Well-known member
Mar 25, 2020
466
257
63
1
Women pastors/preachers may or may not be sanctioned Bible wise. To be honest, I have not dwelt in that question. Which raises another question from me to the writer of this thread. Do they deserve to be or not? You make it sound like they have no knowledge or wisdom to impart men with. I will give my answer for this at the end of this discussion. (It's in two parts)

Yes there are well known women pastors and preachers. Are they accepted? I don't know. That doesn't mean that the Bible says that women are a step lesser than men anywhere in terms of wisdom or knowledge. Or that men should not listen to a woman's counsel within the Church. That they cannot teach is not true either.They can do that as well as any man I think. The Bible is full of examples where women lead people. It is said that Miriam lead the people in praise and worship after God rescued the Israelites from the Egyptians. No living being is more powerful and displays the power of God in Him than Jesus in the Bible. Yet he obeyed His mother. A woman.

Passage:

2 Two days later there was a wedding in the town of Cana in Galilee. Jesus' mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine had given out, Jesus' mother said to him, “They are out of wine.”

4 “You must not tell me what to do,” Jesus replied. “My time has not yet come.”

5 Jesus' mother then told the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”

6 The Jews have rules about ritual washing, and for this purpose six stone water jars were there, each one large enough to hold between twenty and thirty gallons. 7 Jesus said to the servants, “Fill these jars with water.” They filled them to the brim, 8 and then he told them, “Now draw some water out and take it to the man in charge of the feast.” They took him the water, 9 which now had turned into wine, and he tasted it. He did not know where this wine had come from (but, of course, the servants who had drawn out the water knew); so he called the bridegroom 10 and said to him, “Everyone else serves the best wine first, and after the guests have drunk a lot, he serves the ordinary wine. But you have kept the best wine until now!”

11 Jesus performed this first miracle in Cana in Galilee; there he revealed his glory, and his disciples believed in him.

John 2:1-11

That's just saying something about how much a woman is capable of leading men. And please do listen to Mary's tone. Those are commands. Not requests. That's the first miracle of Jesus publicly. I want to give this as a good example that women can lead.

Passages like this in the Bible are given to us to learn and understand God's purpose for us as human beings. As men and women. To think that a woman cannot lead is a fallacy. When women lead, I think they lead the people better than men lead in many cases. There are only good and bad leaders. Gender should not be the question here.

We may be male and female by design and God created us to bring forth new offspring. That's why men and women have different bodies. But the human soul is the same. Because it is said in the Bible as follows..

For when the dead rise to life, they will be like the angels in heaven and will not marry. Matthew 22:30.

It's time Christians started acting like that on earth. Treating the opposite sexes as equals and not inferior either way and with due respect.



It is not my intention to cause an argument or division among the faithful with that question just discussion in a Christian and civil manner.

I have always simply posted the Word of God as it is written. I post this question in order to properly attempt to teach the Word of God....PEROID!

1 Timothy 3:1-2.........
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".

According to the written Word of God, a Pastor can only be a "Male/Man".

Now, before anyone argues that point or disagree with me, remember that the "One" who said..."In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" also was the "One" who said......
"if a "MAN" desire the office of a bishop".

The old Major did not have anything whatsoever to do with what Jesus Christ placed into the Word of God. The old Major just reads it and accepts it as it is written so your disagreements will be with Christ and not me!!!!

Now the question must be WHY would God do that?

1 Timothy 2:13-14 .....
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

It’s important to understand that Paul does not prohibit women from teaching in all contexts (Titus 2:3; Acts 18:25-26), only from teaching the Bible to men in the church.

Notice that Paul prohibits women from doing two distinct things.

1.
Women may not teach the Bible to men in the church.
2.
Women may not exercise authority over men in the church.

Teaching and exercising authority in the church are the two primary responsibilities of elders, pastors, or bishops. Thus, women are not to hold the office of pastor, but neither are they to perform these particular functions of a pastor over men in the church.

Again, for the inquisitive minds the question is still...WHY is that the case.

I will give you what I think is the reason behinds God's direction.

1.
The creation order is the first reason Paul gives for prohibiting women from teaching or exercising authority in the church
.
Paul doesn’t ground his command in cultural considerations or a particular problem with the women in the Ephesian church. Rather, he grounds his command in creation. He says that the reason women are not to teach or exercise authority over men in the church is that....
“Adam was formed first, then Eve”. Paul means that God established Adam as the head and authority of his wife, Eve. God designed men to lead.

2.
The nature of women is the second reason Paul gives for prohibiting them from teaching or exercising authority in the church.
Paul says, “Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor” (1 Tim 2:14). Paul is saying something about the natural constitution of men and women, that men as a class are naturally more fitted to teach and have authority in the church, but women are not.
Dr. Wayne Grudem says, “This is by far the most common viewpoint in the history of the interpretation of this passage” (Evangelical Feminism & Biblical Truth 70).
 

justahumanbeing

Well-known member
Mar 25, 2020
466
257
63
It is not my intention to cause an argument or division among the faithful with that question just discussion in a Christian and civil manner.

I have always simply posted the Word of God as it is written. I post this question in order to properly attempt to teach the Word of God....PEROID!

1 Timothy 3:1-2.........
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".

According to the written Word of God, a Pastor can only be a "Male/Man".

Now, before anyone argues that point or disagree with me, remember that the "One" who said..."In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" also was the "One" who said......
"if a "MAN" desire the office of a bishop".

The old Major did not have anything whatsoever to do with what Jesus Christ placed into the Word of God. The old Major just reads it and accepts it as it is written so your disagreements will be with Christ and not me!!!!

Now the question must be WHY would God do that?

1 Timothy 2:13-14 .....
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

It’s important to understand that Paul does not prohibit women from teaching in all contexts (Titus 2:3; Acts 18:25-26), only from teaching the Bible to men in the church.

Notice that Paul prohibits women from doing two distinct things.

1.
Women may not teach the Bible to men in the church.
2.
Women may not exercise authority over men in the church.

Teaching and exercising authority in the church are the two primary responsibilities of elders, pastors, or bishops. Thus, women are not to hold the office of pastor, but neither are they to perform these particular functions of a pastor over men in the church.

Again, for the inquisitive minds the question is still...WHY is that the case.

I will give you what I think is the reason behinds God's direction.

1.
The creation order is the first reason Paul gives for prohibiting women from teaching or exercising authority in the church
.
Paul doesn’t ground his command in cultural considerations or a particular problem with the women in the Ephesian church. Rather, he grounds his command in creation. He says that the reason women are not to teach or exercise authority over men in the church is that....
“Adam was formed first, then Eve”. Paul means that God established Adam as the head and authority of his wife, Eve. God designed men to lead.

2.
The nature of women is the second reason Paul gives for prohibiting them from teaching or exercising authority in the church.
Paul says, “Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor” (1 Tim 2:14). Paul is saying something about the natural constitution of men and women, that men as a class are naturally more fitted to teach and have authority in the church, but women are not.
Dr. Wayne Grudem says, “This is by far the most common viewpoint in the history of the interpretation of this passage” (Evangelical Feminism & Biblical Truth 70).
2
And as far as marriage goes, this is how it is:

Wives and Husbands
21 Submit yourselves to one another because of your reverence for Christ.

22 Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands as to the Lord. 23 For a husband has authority over his wife just as Christ has authority over the church; and Christ is himself the Savior of the church, his body. 24 And so wives must submit themselves completely to their husbands just as the church submits itself to Christ.

25 Husbands, love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave his life for it. 26 He did this to dedicate the church to God by his word, after making it clean by washing it in water, 27 in order to present the church to himself in all its beauty—pure and faultless, without spot or wrinkle or any other imperfection. 28 Men ought to love their wives just as they love their own bodies. A man who loves his wife loves himself. (29 None of us ever hate our own bodies. Instead, we feed them, and take care of them, just as Christ does the church; 30 for we are members of his body.) 31 As the scripture says, “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and unite with his wife, and the two will become one.” 32 There is a deep secret truth revealed in this scripture, which I understand as applying to Christ and the church. 33 But it also applies to you: every husband must love his wife as himself, and every wife must respect her husband.

Ephesians 5:21-33

As the passage above clearly explains, a wife should submit herself to the husband in exchange for the husband's love. A man should treat his wife like he treats himself. With respect, with dignity. Not without. So there is responsibility involved with the submission. Failing that responsibility, the woman need not be submissive to any forms of arrogance or mistreatment or one sided, selfish lifestyle of a husband. It's a two way street in marriage. Mutual respect. Equality. Gentleness. A lot of listening to eachother's views is a must. Mutual understanding. Failing these things, any marriage will be broken within or the partners separate sadly. People always adjust to make the marriage work. There is only so much every human being can take. It just depends who wants to go the extra mile and sacrifice the most to save the marriage. In many cases, the sacrifices are made by women in comparison with men. The worst part is when the sacrifices made go unnoticed by the other life partner, be it husband or wife. That's what causes hurt feelings the most.

I wanted to reach out to the person who started this thread so that he/she could look at this from my perspective. Whether he/she accepts that is entirely the individual's choice.

When you look at it from a worldwide perspective, we live in a misogynistic, women hating world where women suffer so much more than men at a majority level as they have like since the dawn of creation. Right from the way women are objectified in media, to their unfair treatment in relationships and victimisation in society. Bad treatment in jobs, harassment. I'm not saying that men cannot suffer things from a woman's bad treatment of them. I'm just saying that women are more likely to be victimised than men in our patriarchal, male ego driven human society. I say all that is wrong and it has to change and that should be talked about. When you look at it at the grassroots level in society, women are the ones who are burdened with raising families as single mothers and taking on more responsibility than men at an unequal ratio compared to men. More often than not, they're the ones that get smashed with more hardships and responsibilities in life. They bear all that silently. What I'm trying to say is, if a woman should say something to me at Church or outside the Church and that makes good sense to follow, I will take her word for it and follow what she says as much as I would follow the advice of a man or a preacher or a pastor.

There are holy women as much as there are holy men and good counsel or advice from a Godly woman is as good as good advice from a Godly man. A Christ centered woman = A Christ centered man. So, you can listen to either of them on what they have to say as long as they know and follow Our Lord Jesus truly.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
if that were true then Paul should not have provided godly counsel on marriage then huh?. You can't provide biblically anything to refute what was said so you result in insults.
I think Paul’s status as a PROPHET and RECIPIENT OF DIVINE WISDOM on the subject can’t be compared to a never-married fellow clueless and ill equipped to fulfill pastoral duties, the bulk of which was and is marriage/family counsel.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
I think Paul’s status as a PROPHET and RECIPIENT OF DIVINE WISDOM on the subject can’t be compared to a never-married fellow clueless and ill equipped to fulfill pastoral duties, the bulk of which was and is marriage/family counsel.
Historians generally agree that Paul was a widower and not an unmarried man be definition. That notwithstanding The Holy Spirit wrote the words not Paul.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
369
83
It is not my intention to cause an argument or division among the faithful with that question just discussion in a Christian and civil manner.

I have always simply posted the Word of God as it is written. I post this question in order to properly attempt to teach the Word of God....PEROID!

1 Timothy 3:1-2.........
"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach".

According to the written Word of God, a Pastor can only be a "Male/Man".

Now, before anyone argues that point or disagree with me, remember that the "One" who said..."In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" also was the "One" who said......
"if a "MAN" desire the office of a bishop".

The old Major did not have anything whatsoever to do with what Jesus Christ placed into the Word of God. The old Major just reads it and accepts it as it is written so your disagreements will be with Christ and not me!!!!

Now the question must be WHY would God do that?

1 Timothy 2:13-14 .....
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

It’s important to understand that Paul does not prohibit women from teaching in all contexts (Titus 2:3; Acts 18:25-26), only from teaching the Bible to men in the church.

Notice that Paul prohibits women from doing two distinct things.

1.
Women may not teach the Bible to men in the church.
2.
Women may not exercise authority over men in the church.

Teaching and exercising authority in the church are the two primary responsibilities of elders, pastors, or bishops. Thus, women are not to hold the office of pastor, but neither are they to perform these particular functions of a pastor over men in the church.

Again, for the inquisitive minds the question is still...WHY is that the case.

I will give you what I think is the reason behinds God's direction.

1.
The creation order is the first reason Paul gives for prohibiting women from teaching or exercising authority in the church
.
Paul doesn’t ground his command in cultural considerations or a particular problem with the women in the Ephesian church. Rather, he grounds his command in creation. He says that the reason women are not to teach or exercise authority over men in the church is that....
“Adam was formed first, then Eve”. Paul means that God established Adam as the head and authority of his wife, Eve. God designed men to lead.

2.
The nature of women is the second reason Paul gives for prohibiting them from teaching or exercising authority in the church.
Paul says, “Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor” (1 Tim 2:14). Paul is saying something about the natural constitution of men and women, that men as a class are naturally more fitted to teach and have authority in the church, but women are not.
Dr. Wayne Grudem says, “This is by far the most common viewpoint in the history of the interpretation of this passage” (Evangelical Feminism & Biblical Truth 70).

It would be hard to preach in the worship service since she must remain silent, especially since she cannot preach to the men of the congregation.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,135
29,452
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It would be hard to preach in the worship service since she must remain silent,
especially since she cannot preach to the men of the congregation.
I wonder how a woman preaching equates to exercising authority over any man :unsure:
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
I wonder how a woman preaching equates to exercising authority over any man :unsure:
Biblically Pastors are not what they are today. Today they have no authority because the church is mostly just white wash. If you read the pastoral Epistles you find that the role of pastor is leadership, discipling, and authority. Preaching and pastoring are two different jobs, even if the preaching is generally done by the pastor.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,135
29,452
113
Biblically Pastors are not what they are today. Today they have no authority because the church is mostly just white wash. If you read the pastoral Epistles you find that the role of pastor is leadership, discipling, and authority.
Does one have to be a pastor to preach?
 

OneFaith

Senior Member
Sep 5, 2016
2,270
369
83
I wonder how a woman preaching equates to exercising authority over any man :unsure:
Roles...
Well, it depends if it is about the physical or about the spiritual. The worship assembly is about us physically meeting together- therefore male and female roles set by God apply. But we are all priests in Christ, and spiritually speaking there is no male nor female.

So, for example, let’s say a female christian is stuck in an elevator for hours with a man, and they get into a conversation about God. In that circumstance would it be wrong for her to preach to him? It would be wrong of her not to. He’s asking for spiritual bread, feed him. Let him know what he must do to be saved. This is simply a saved soul communicating with an unsaved soul. We are all commanded to share the gospel.

Older women in the church are commanded to teach the younger women in the church. Can this be in the form of preaching? Sure- as long as there are no men of the church, and it’s not during the first day of the week assembly.

Authority...
Obviously a mother has authority over her son, until he becomes an adult- then what she says becomes advice instead of an order. But if she was at the store and saw a man she does not know arguing with a cashier, she has no authority to go up to him and say “Go to your room, now!” But if she was his boss in the workplace she does have the authority to say “Go home right now, until we have a meeting about this matter tomorrow.”

Contrary to popular belief, a husband does not have authority over his wife. The bible uses two different words for children and wives- children are to obey, wives are to submit. They do not mean the same thing. Submit means to try to promote him leading the family. But husband and wife are partners and therefore must make decisions together. She is never forced to go along with what he says, just as Christ never forces the church- it must be by choice.