Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??

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Edify

Active member
Jan 27, 2021
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The translation was done by men who knew the Lord and their integrity was above reproach. King James did not translate the original texts.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
No, but he was the one that "authorized" it. While the translators may have been above reproach the Archbishop of Canterbury who supervised the translation at that time wasn't.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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Several things are at play.

One thing is that the women of Paul's day were not educated. They were not allowed to go to the temple to learn. In fact it has been said that the men in that day considered a mule more than they did a woman.

Another thing is that in the church of that day, women would ask their husbands questions across the isles and that caused a lot of confusion so Paul was saying..."You women be silent in church and then ask your questions when you get home".

Paul also said in 1 Corth 14:34......"Women are are to speak in church". However, the whole 14th chapter's CONTEXT is speaking in tongues and then in verse 34......."Women are not to speak in church". Many Bible scholars take that to mean that women were being told NOT to speak IN TONGUES in church.

Personally......I do not know and I only posted this to have the conversation. Which ever the reason, the Scriptures IMO are clear and they say that it is a MAN who is to be the pastor of the church.
yes I’m saying the same thing I’m not sure but also appreciate your thoughts to consider

It takes a lot of assumptions and interpretations sometimes to get to a place but in scripture I’m not comfortable doing that .

I don’t think it’s meant to change with the times of the world and the gospel would adapt as people changed . I think believers are Meant to conform to the word and not the church to the world .

I think with Paul’s letters it’s really important to read what he himself is saying about his own teachings and words

It’s not as if Paul was claiming every word he spoke was the commandment of God he often makes the point like this

“But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.”



And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:”

I think rather than interpreting it as if the world had changed so the church needs to adapt to Modern cultures , we should just let what’s there decide what’s a commandment and what Paul kid saying is just his own judgement he actually does this quite often. In his letters

which is why that part is so clear when he says “ let them acknowledge what I say is the lords commandment “ because he does that often in his letters sometimes he says “I’m just talking as myself as a man” , other times he says “I’m speaking foolishness to you “

other times he says” I’m not speaking this as a mere man , but in speaking this in christs authority “ I think Paul is very misunderstood today , his role , his letters , his doctrine .

but if we let the book of acts , and his epistles speak for themselves he holds a wealth of gems understanding he was a
Man like us , who was chosen by the lord to speak the gospel and enabled by the lord to do so . Paul brags of his own imperfections and failures at times makes clear at times he’s not speaking for the lord at that moment but is offering his own judgements

other times he specifically makes the point that what he’s saying is of God
Because he’s talking to Timothy and Timothy was to carry on his ministry and Paul says “ I do not permit a woman to teach “ to me it just raises a bit of conflict , I think as I’m studying more I’m inserstdandingnit better and it’s beginning to reconcile as being Paul’s instruction regarding ministry specifically ,



and his reasoning being that “the first time around it was the women’s fault


So therefore “ don’t allow her to take part in the ministry this time “ and that just doesn’t make sense with the rest of Paul’s teachings , though it’s fully acceptable it doesn’t mean it makes any sense , and doesn’t go against the rest of his teachings bout the curse being removed through baptism
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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You have made a lot of assumptions which are not tenable. Up to Romans 14 v 10 the verses have no reference to women in leadership so they are irrelevant.

No one is suggesting that women are less or dfferent. I keep on saying this but it seems to fall on deaf ears. Anyone, a woman, a man, a single person, a married person, even a child is only effective if they are doing what God has ordained in scripture. Not what a denominatioon says or they say.

I have no idea what being unclean has got to do with a woman teaching.

And you should consider this understanding about faith that it doesn't sidestep what scripture teaches.

it is an assumtion on your part that I have already convicted her of a transgressor whatever that means.

And learning from scripture that teaches us about leadership in the church which there are plenty of is essential if we are to grasp what is being taught.

As for " and everyone else nominee is held to My standard of faith but to theirs" is complete double dutch.
thanks for sharing your thinking with me , bless you
 

Edify

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Jan 27, 2021
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And today people who have Bible school training promote false doctrines and apostatize daily. All the well-know apostates are theologians and professors in seminaries (or bishops and archbishops). And every fundamentalist Bible school has been compromised over the last few years. Check it out for yourself.

Since the 19th century it is the Christian seminaries (primarily in Germany) which became the centers for attacks on the Bible, the Gospel, and Bible doctrine. Dean John W. Burgon (and others) in England exposed this in the 19th century, and showed how German skeptics had influenced British theologians. Others in the USA exposed unbelief, skepticism, and apostasy in the early 20th century, when the battle between the Fundamentalists and the Liberals rocked Christianity. In the end the Fundamentalists had to leave the liberal seminaries.

But again during the 20th century there was a decline in almost all the Bible colleges and seminaries in the States. This has all been documented in the battle for biblical inerrancy in several books. Which brings us back to the fact that A SEMINARY EDUCATION IS NO GUARANTEE OF FAITHFULNESS to the Word of God. Quite the opposite. Many believing young Christians have had their faith shattered by attending bible schools and seminaries. And in any event Christ did not authorize the substitution of sound Bible teaching with meaningless academic degrees.
I agree. While all believe we're in the last days, not everyone sees the political, industrial, and religious organizations all preparing the way for the Antichrist as the elitists have been setting this up for a while now.

In order for the religious part to comply, people have to be placed at the tops of all religious establishments, including seminaries to bow to the Antichrist's whims. The stage is nearly set.
 

Edify

Active member
Jan 27, 2021
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This is subjective criteria not biblically based criteria. You are guilty of putting your spin on the subject not making a biblical evaluation of the matter. It may seem right but it does not end well.

Eve's leadership led mankind to where it is today.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
These scriptures all relate to the marriage relationship & general christian ethics. All of them.
You really ought to try another version besides the KJV. It's perverted with sexual inequality.

Gal 3:23(NAS)But before faith came, [ah]we were kept in custody under the Law, being confined for the faith that was destined to be revealed. 24Therefore the Law has become our [ai]guardian to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a [aj]guardian. 26For you are all sons and daughters of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is[ak]neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you [al]belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s [am]descendants, heirs according to promise.

Not 2 separate unequal groups but fully & equally one in Christ, for God is no respector of persons.
 

Major

Active member
Dec 12, 2020
514
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yes I’m saying the same thing I’m not sure but also appreciate your thoughts to consider

It takes a lot of assumptions and interpretations sometimes to get to a place but in scripture I’m not comfortable doing that .

I don’t think it’s meant to change with the times of the world and the gospel would adapt as people changed . I think believers are Meant to conform to the word and not the church to the world .

I think with Paul’s letters it’s really important to read what he himself is saying about his own teachings and words

It’s not as if Paul was claiming every word he spoke was the commandment of God he often makes the point like this

“But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.”



And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:”

I think rather than interpreting it as if the world had changed so the church needs to adapt to Modern cultures , we should just let what’s there decide what’s a commandment and what Paul kid saying is just his own judgement he actually does this quite often. In his letters

which is why that part is so clear when he says “ let them acknowledge what I say is the lords commandment “ because he does that often in his letters sometimes he says “I’m just talking as myself as a man” , other times he says “I’m speaking foolishness to you “

other times he says” I’m not speaking this as a mere man , but in speaking this in christs authority “ I think Paul is very misunderstood today , his role , his letters , his doctrine .

but if we let the book of acts , and his epistles speak for themselves he holds a wealth of gems understanding he was a
Man like us , who was chosen by the lord to speak the gospel and enabled by the lord to do so . Paul brags of his own imperfections and failures at times makes clear at times he’s not speaking for the lord at that moment but is offering his own judgements

other times he specifically makes the point that what he’s saying is of God
Because he’s talking to Timothy and Timothy was to carry on his ministry and Paul says “ I do not permit a woman to teach “ to me it just raises a bit of conflict , I think as I’m studying more I’m inserstdandingnit better and it’s beginning to reconcile as being Paul’s instruction regarding ministry specifically ,



and his reasoning being that “the first time around it was the women’s fault


So therefore “ don’t allow her to take part in the ministry this time “ and that just doesn’t make sense with the rest of Paul’s teachings , though it’s fully acceptable it doesn’t mean it makes any sense , and doesn’t go against the rest of his teachings bout the curse being removed through baptism
Allow me to ask you to consider this.

Paul puts himself in the category of being “unmarried” in 1 Corinthians 7:8. The word “unmarried” translates the Greek word agamos.
Paul uses the term agamos to refer to those who have been married but now are no longer married.
The context of agamos in 1 Corinthians 7:8 is dominated by Paul’s instructions to those who are married or who have been married.
The Greek word for “widower” was not in use during the Koine period.
The word for “unmarried” appears to be the masculine word for someone who has lost a spouse.
As a good Pharisee, it is highly unlikely that Paul would have been single his entire life.

Therefore, many Bible scholars believe that Paul was a widower.
 

Major

Active member
Dec 12, 2020
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i think Jesus advocated for women to play spiritual roles. The woman at the well who went on to testify to her village, Mary who proclaimed his resurrection to the male disciples is remarkable. Even in the old testament God often chose women to do important spiritual roles (Huldah). There are just too many examples to mention. The verses quoted here all relate to the later organisation of the church and how they saw fit to arrange it for their time not for all time. I've seen some very bad male preachers too
Anyway the bigger thing i recon is women getting broken by society and in need of a lot of healing more important than who is doing preaching work
But that is "rationalizing" the Scriptures to fit society of today.

We are the ones who must conform to the Scriptures and not them to us.
 

Major

Active member
Dec 12, 2020
514
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Thanks Scribe i'm quite primitive/still learning and make a lot of mistakes
i actually reflected on this and in the end i think maybe God likes some people to resist change and be very strictly legalistic even if it's going too far. why? because they try and stop things going completely wild and out of control which is too far the other way. somewhere in the middle is that right balance. so he uses both types of people maybe is my hunch and they sort of need each other. problem comes when one group thinks they're completely right and the other completely wrong, hey a bit like relationships. the man sure has to be strong
I agree. Man and woman need each other just as the Scriptures. However, those same Scriptures clearly say that it is the Man who is the head of the family and the church.

If anyone is OK with ignoring the Word of God......go to it.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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If anyone is OK with ignoring the Word of God......go to it.
They won't ignore it, but they will twist the Scriptures to fit their twisted theology. That is called "reinterpretation in the light of modern scholarship".
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
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These scriptures all relate to the marriage relationship & general christian ethics. All of them.
You really ought to try another version besides the KJV. It's perverted with sexual inequality.
This is distasteful and does not reflect well on you as a Christian.
Not 2 separate unequal groups but fully & equally one in Christ, for God is no respector of persons.
You have corrupted the quote beyond it's actual intention. No respecter of persons with regard to salvation but God has given quite different authorities to men and women respectfully.

For the cause of Chrisst
Roger
 

0WL

New member
Feb 15, 2021
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I’m shocked, beyond shocked at words I have read on this feed.

“With all due respect, That idea is NOT Biblical but instead it is a denominational teaching to get around the directions given by Paul.

“A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” (1 Timothy 2:11–12)”

Jesus cleaned a woman’s feet he was so in awe of her enlightenment. He knew she saw more than most men and honoured that. You don’t? You never will.
 
S

Scribe

Guest
I’m shocked, beyond shocked at words I have read on this feed.

“With all due respect, That idea is NOT Biblical but instead it is a denominational teaching to get around the directions given by Paul.

“A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent” (1 Timothy 2:11–12)”

Jesus cleaned a woman’s feet he was so in awe of her enlightenment. He knew she saw more than most men and honoured that. You don’t? You never will.
When did Jesus clean a woman's feet. Not that He wouldn't but what are you talking about? A movie that you saw maybe? Are you thinking there were women present not mentioned in John 13? And bye the way, I believe in women preachers.
 

0WL

New member
Feb 15, 2021
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I’m sure he did, why wouldn’t he? He protected, stood for and held woman in the highest regard. Old and New Testament.

He never ever in “his words” placed us below men.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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You really ought to try another version besides the KJV. It's perverted with sexual inequality.
Where do people come up with such bizarre accusations? Do you know anything about the King James Bible, or are you just spouting off? The translators only translated that which was found in the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts, and this translation is supported by the majority of manuscripts in existence. So how could this Bible "pervert" anything?

Getting back to the subject, no one in their right mind and with complete objectivity can claim that the Bible DOES NOT spell out the different roles of men and women in the home and in the church. You can call it inequality or you can call it distinction by gender. And there are sound spiritual and divine reasons why women are NOT permitted to preach, teach, or usurp authority in the churches, just as they are to submit themselves to their own husbands at home. This is not according to human whims and fantasies but according to directives from God and Christ.

It should be noted in this context that both the Catholic and Orthodox churches have traditionally barred women from their priesthoods, and these churches go all the way back to the first and fourth centuries. Furthermore they have also taught women to cover their heads during Christian worship. These churches do have many teachings which are inconsistent with Scripture, but here they have followed the Word of God.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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And there are sound spiritual and divine reasons why women are NOT permitted to preach, teach, or usurp authority in the churches
Okay, let's have them on the table. Show us these "spiritual and divine reasons".
 
Oct 10, 2020
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There is no reason women cant be preachers of the word. Many are now and more will be. What timothy wrote at tlme was for the time. what he wrote was in no way a commandment. Love fufils the law, that is a commanment. If a womanpreaches love of God she is following exactly the word give by Jesus. So let her be.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,027
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I’m sure he did, why wouldn’t he? He protected, stood for and held woman in the highest regard. Old and New Testament.

He never ever in “his words” placed us below men.
Nor did He ever place them above men in relation to their God given authority.

God places women under the authority of men not to abuse them but to protect them and bless them. Any man who abuses his authority toward women abuses his relationship with God.

The church does not stand ahead of Christ and women do not stand ahead of the man.

It is rebellion for a woman to endeavor to pastor a church.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
35,705
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Okay, let's have them on the table. Show us these "spiritual and divine reasons".
I am curious to know how preaching equates to exercising authority over men.

Any ideas? Just asking you cuz I know you are a smart guy and well versed in Scripture.

Also, so many speak about men being the head over the woman, but what if husband gives wife the okay
to preach? Is that some breach of... protocol? Does any other man have a right to contradict the matter?
 

Edify

Active member
Jan 27, 2021
244
99
28
Where do people come up with such bizarre accusations? Do you know anything about the King James Bible, or are you just spouting off? The translators only translated that which was found in the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts, and this translation is supported by the majority of manuscripts in existence. So how could this Bible "pervert" anything?
I gave these examples before & they weren't a problem.

Colossians 4:15
New American Standard Bible
Greet the brothers and sisters who are in Laodicea and also Nympha and the church that is in her house.

The KJV 1611 purposely translated Nympha to Nymphas. The greek word "nymph" always declares a female & can only be a female. Scholars have checked historical documents & not found a single Nymphas because it doesn't exist.

The 1611 also purposely inserted the word "bishop" to cement the position of the Archbishop of Canterbury in the Church of England. These are only 2 examples.

So yes, the KJV is tainted with man-made ideas.
Getting back to the subject, no one in their right mind and with complete objectivity can claim that the Bible DOES NOT spell out the different roles of men and women in the home and in the church. You can call it inequality or you can call it distinction by gender. And there are sound spiritual and divine reasons why women are NOT permitted to preach, teach, or usurp authority in the churches, just as they are to submit themselves to their own husbands at home. This is not according to human whims and fantasies but according to directives from God and Christ.
In the marriage & individual behavior, yes, but not in ministries.