Are women under a curse?

[mcubed]

G-d blessed us and cursed us:
Genesis 3:15-16
And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."
To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor, you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

Of course, the blessing was ultimately fulfilled in Mariam giving birth to Y-shua. But it was being fulfilled by Jochebed giving birth to Moses and is still being fulfilled with ever woman that gives birth to and raises up a mighty man/woman of G-d that is a soul winner.

We are still cursed too. Ever had a child natural child birth!?! The last part of the curse is true too…. The Biblical standard is as women we are called to submit to our husbands

 

[garee]

On the positive side, male and female are also under a blessing

GENESIS 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
GENESIS 1:28 And God blessed them,
and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Yes His own image, He made them one creation. God is one Spirit.

 

[garee]

Of course, the blessing was ultimately fulfilled in Mariam giving birth to Y-shua. But it was being fulfilled by Jochebed giving birth to Moses and is still being fulfilled with ever woman that gives birth to and raises up a mighty man/woman of G-d that is a soul winner.

Mary who served as a good example like any believer she is typified as the mother of us all as to the spiritual house of God made of many lively stones His eternal bride.

God puts no difference between male and female, Jew or gentile. Purifying the hearts of all by a work of His faith a labor of His love.

The new heavenly Jerusalem, the eternal married land as His prepared bride, she is the segregate mother of us all as we His bride hold out the gospel of salvation . .

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all

Its the eternal land, not corrupted land.It will go up in smoke as the new heavens and earth comes into view.
Two beginnings two Genesis's as generations (plural ) The generation of man and the generation of Christ, the new born again creatures.

Paul because we no longer know one another after the flesh was used a segregate mother he is shown having those birth pains described in Genesis 3, the woman the bride of Christ. Until Christ was formed in us. We walk by faith not by sight what we are is not what we will be.

Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Her seed of the husband, Christ, crushed the head of the serpent.

 

[stonesoffire]

How do we "see" God? How to understand His nature? Is it not by seeing Jesus?

~1Jn 1:5　 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.　

God is light. God is good.

Who says He isn't?


The serpent of darkness is where he dwells. God is light...hidden in dark clouds. But revealed now in Christ.

~Gen 3:16　 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be
to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

I will greatly multiply This phrase in Hebrew is two words. rabah rabah. Repeated twice.

Does it say anywhere this is a curse? Look at the definition of this word.
H7235
[FONT=Arial (Arabic)][FONT=Arial (Arabic)][FONT=Arial (Arabic)]רָבָה
[/FONT]râbâh
raw-baw'
A primitive root; to increase (in whatever respect): - [bring in] abundance (X -antly), + archer [by mistake for H7232], be in authority, bring up, X continue, enlarge, excel, exceeding (-ly), be full of, (be, make) great (-er, -ly), X -ness), grow up, heap, increase, be long, (be, give, have, make, use) many (a time), (any, be, give, give the, have) more (in number), (ask, be, be so, gather, over, take, yield) much (greater, more), (make to) multiply, nourish, plenty (-eous), X process [of time], sore, store, thoroughly, very.
Total KJV occurrences: 224



　
Isa_45:7　 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Look at the scripture again. God has an action, and a result here.

Do you see?







[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[LaurenTM]

I believe that Adam and Eve weren't "flesh" until they sinned. That they were beings of light. So reproduction wouldn't occur until sin. I don't think God was putting a curse of pain on women, but stating a fact. It would hurt to bear a child.

I've heard stories too about those who believed there would be no pain if they had faith. That was early on in my walk with the Lord. But, I never knew anyone who experienced this.

Scripture states that anyone that trusts in the law, would have to obey all the law and that perfectly. So that would be the Jews. They remain under its curse, there is no further sacrifice for sin. Its a most serious offense to reject the Redeemer.

By the way, my belief about Adam and Eve being light beings is controversial and not expecting to change anyones thought about it. It just makes sense to me.

'


instead of filling this thread up with your personal extra-biblical ideas and musings, why not start your own thread?

Look at the scripture again. God has an action, and a result here.

Do you see?

what I see, is you hijacking the thread...please start your own

the Invisible Man/Woman thread or some such

why introduce totally unrelated concepts into a thread with almost two hundred posts? are you looking for a captive audience?

thanks for not derailing this thread any further...there have been other topics discussed in this thread...but scriptural...this post, belongs in a different genre

thank you

 

[LaurenTM]

Hmm...I think maybe the answer is "all of the above". People bring curses upon themselves through choice, but there are also preset consequences. God said in Isaiah 45:7:


I form light and create darkness; I make peace and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things.


And in Deuteronomy 30:19:


"This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. NOW CHOOSE life, so that you and your children may live"


So if we put it together; God has preset the path of blessings & life...and the path of curses & death, and then tells us to chose whichever path we will walk, even encouraging us to choose the right path. It's no different than the choice Adam and Eve had in the garden. A tree of life (and healing, as we read in Revelation) and a tree of certain death (with all the curses that followed).

He told them not to eat of the knowledge tree that would bring certain death (i.e. "choose life"). So they suffered the consequences of their choice (death condition), while receiving all the curses tied to that path.

Everyone knows the famous passage of John 3:16, but I think the rest of what Christ says is pretty significant:


John 3:16-21
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believes on him is not condemned: but he that believes not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


The world stands *already condemned* because they choose the path of darkness, so their lives are already wrapped in curses, calamity and eventually death. I feel that without giving us the choice He couldn't express true love for us and we couldn't express true love for him. There had to be an antithesis.

...Now in addition to that I also believe people can enact curses upon themselves and others. As Proverbs 18:21 says...


21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.


We read in Genesis how Noah cursed Canaan's seed to be servants of the others, and from that we read God commanding Israel not to intermarry with the Canaanites. Then when we read in Genesis how Jacob blessed Joseph's younger sons to be greater than the older, and from then on God blessed Ephraim as the largest tribe of Israel. Then how about when Elisha cursed the people for teasing him about his bald head? Two bears appeared and killed the people. I think these things were possible because the Spirit of God was firmly with these men.

I think we must be very careful of what we say as believers in God in whom his Holy Spirit dwells.


Matthew 18:18-19
18 Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

19 Again, I tell you truly that if two of you on the earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by My Father in heaven


So if we, as believers and new creatures in Christ, say we're under a curse I think we may just very well loose one upon ourselves by faith. And if that's the case we should always be careful to speak blessings upon ourselves and others.

curses are interesting subject in and of themselves

again, I started this op because of comments in a another thread

and, I gave my thoughts in post 106

So if we put it together; God has preset the path of blessings & life...and the path of curses & death, and then tells us to chose whichever path we will walk, even encouraging us to choose the right path. It's no different than the choice Adam and Eve had in the garden. A tree of life (and healing, as we read in Revelation) and a tree of certain death (with all the curses that followed).

He told them not to eat of the knowledge tree that would bring certain death (i.e. "choose life"). So they suffered the consequences of their choice (death condition), while receiving all the curses tied to that path.

when I read the above, I am leaning towards thinking that the consequences were already laid out...in other words, the disobedience caused to pass a preset determination ... the curses that ensued...as we read, CHOOSE life or death and I don't think it is any different now

if you choose Christ...life...otherwise death..actions predetermine a course of action that is inevitable as evidenced by scripture you have posted (and many others to be found)

as God says to the serpent:

Because you have done this, you are cursed more than all creatures and all animals of the field; upon your belly you will go, and dust you will eat all the days of your life. I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring. He will strike your head, and you will strike his heel. (Genesis 3:14–15)

the because indicates a reason for the curse that follows...so, the action of the serpent enacted what appears to be already in place

The world stands *already condemned* because they choose the path of darkness, so their lives are already wrapped in curses, calamity and eventually death. I feel that without giving us the choice He couldn't express true love for us and we couldn't express true love for him. There had to be an antithesis.

...Now in addition to that I also believe people can enact curses upon themselves and others. As Proverbs 18:21 says...


21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

I agree

So if we, as believers and new creatures in Christ, say we're under a curse I think we may just very well loose one upon ourselves by faith. And if that's the case we should always be careful to speak blessings upon ourselves and others.

not sure how you mean this..

thanks!

 

[LaurenTM]

G-d blessed us and cursed us:
Genesis 3:15-16
And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."
To the woman he said, "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor, you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you."

Of course, the blessing was ultimately fulfilled in Mariam giving birth to Y-shua. But it was being fulfilled by Jochebed giving birth to Moses and is still being fulfilled with ever woman that gives birth to and raises up a mighty man/woman of G-d that is a soul winner.

We are still cursed too. Ever had a child natural child birth!?! The last part of the curse is true too…. The Biblical standard is as women we are called to submit to our husbands

No I don't think so

I think the curses were a result of the sin

I think we have to very careful in how we perceive God...

The Biblical standard is as women we are called to submit to our husbands

you forgot the rest of that passage...it does not end with women 'submitting'

again, this is not a discussion for this thread...it would take it entirely off course; nonetheless

the curse is ended in Christ

He became a curse for us...are you cursed? why would you think women are still cursed?

something REALLY wrong with that way of thinking IMO

there are absolutely instructions on the family in the Bible...but they do not end with women submitting to men

men need to submit to Christ and Christians are to submit to one another...

however and again, didn't start this thread for that discussion...it's a whole other disucssion

thank you

 

[Dan_473]

Yes His own image, He made them one creation. God is one Spirit.

GENESIS 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.

 

[LaurenTM]

GENESIS 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.

I would ask garee what he means by God is one spirit

is he talking oneness here?

God IS Spirit...not one of many...the One and only

however, Christians believe in the Trinity...not one spirit

The Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit...a different person of the Trinity...not God as spirit or even one spirit

and that is a sidebar to the thread

 

[Grace777x70]

No I don't think so

I think the curses were a result of the sin

I think we have to very careful in how we perceive God...



you forgot the rest of that passage...it does not end with women 'submitting'

again, this is not a discussion for this thread...it would take it entirely off course; nonetheless

the curse is ended in Christ

He became a curse for us...are you cursed? why would you think women are still cursed?

something REALLY wrong with that way of thinking IMO

there are absolutely instructions on the family in the Bible...but they do not end with women submitting to men

men need to submit to Christ and Christians are to submit to one another...

however and again, didn't start this thread for that discussion...it's a whole other disucssion

thank you

I find it interesting that people always want to quote in Eph. 5:22 where the wife is to "submit" ( or be subject ) to the husband and yet the very same Greek word for "submit " ( or subject ) is used in Eph. 5:21 for all of us to be "subject" to each other in the fear of Christ.

The word "subject" or "submit" means " to yield to another's admonition or advice." according to Thayer's Greek-Hebrew Lexicon as a meaning.

This says to me that we are to listen to others and be sensitive to the Holy Spirit when they talk as they may be telling us something we need to know or apply.

It does not imply strict adherence to everything they say just because they say it as has been religiously taught in some circles. This has caused great harm in some cases. and in effect left women still living in the curse that Christ redeemed them from.

This very thing had an off-shoot years ago in the "Shepherding Movement" where people had to "subject" everything they did to their pastors. This was ungodly and the fruit produced from that was rotten and not from Christ.

Whenever anyone tries to "lord it over your faith" whether it be a pastor or someone one with formal religious training in any discipline - run from them as fast as our little legs can take us!

That's my 2 bits worth...

 

[stonesoffire]

'


instead of filling this thread up with your personal extra-biblical ideas and musings, why not start your own thread?




what I see, is you hijacking the thread...please start your own

the Invisible Man/Woman thread or some such

why introduce totally unrelated concepts into a thread with almost two hundred posts? are you looking for a captive audience?

thanks for not derailing this thread any further...there have been other topics discussed in this thread...but scriptural...this post, belongs in a different genre

thank you

Im not exactly sure why you are angry? And where have I posted 200 posts? You just want everyone's opinion? If so I will steer clear of your threads.

 

[LaurenTM]

Im not exactly sure why you are angry? And where have I posted 200 posts? You just want everyone's opinion? If so I will steer clear of your threads.

I think you need to step back and re-read what I posted

I did not say you posted 200 times in this thread...I said why are you introducing some strange ideas about what God created?

I believe that Adam and Eve weren't "flesh" until they sinned. That they were beings of light. So reproduction wouldn't occur until sin. I don't think God was putting a curse of pain on women, but stating a fact. It would hurt to bear a child

I mean honestly, can we please adult?

 

[LaurenTM]

I find it interesting that people always want to quote in Eph. 5:22 where the wife is to "submit" ( or be subject ) to the husband and yet the very same Greek word for "submit " ( or subject ) is used in Eph. 5:21 for all of us to be "subject" to each other in the fear of Christ.

The word "subject" or "submit" means " to yield to another's admonition or advice." according to Thayer's Greek-Hebrew Lexicon as a meaning.

This says to me that we are to listen to others and be sensitive to the Holy Spirit when they talk as they may be telling us something we need to know or apply.

It does not imply strict adherence to everything they say just because they say it as has been religiously taught in some circles. This has caused great harm in some cases. and in effect left women still living in the curse that Christ redeemed them from.

This very thing had an off-shoot years ago in the "Shepherding Movement" where people had to "subject" everything they did to their pastors. This was ungodly and the fruit produced from that was rotten and not from Christ.

Whenever anyone tries to "lord it over your faith" whether it be a pastor or someone one with formal religious training in any discipline - run from them as fast as our little legs can take us!

That's my 2 bits worth...

I think ... from some other teachings passed around, around forums and responses on this site to other threads and possibly this one, that they are equating a woman's submission with words spoken by God to Eve in the garden...

it's tiresome because they are stuck on that verse and have missed out on the rest apparently

as AuntieAnt pointed out....with the missing portion of that chapter...and why I would like to not have that introduced as 'evidence' for the 'opposing witness'

 

[stonesoffire]

I think you need to step back and re-read what I posted

I did not say you posted 200 times in this thread...I said why are you introducing some strange ideas about what God created?




I mean honestly, can we please adult?

Lauren

if we don't do our own studies and seek to know the truth, we will think wrongly. And we do because we are under the prince of the power of the air until we are born again. To be adult is to study the scriptures and believe what God says. I only said that it was controversial because when truth is introduced, there is usually a negative reaction to it.

I don't see where God put a curse on anyone but the serpent. And man was given choice. Disobedience to God brought us all under the power of the enemy. Obedience, to the protection- blessings of God.

So is this a curse from God? Or the result of our own choice?

I was giving other other reasons why we should think that God is nothing but GOOD!

 

[pottersclay]

Is it possible that the curse was brought on for women because eves intent was different than Adams for eating the forbidden fruit?
Scripture would suggest that eves intent was to be as God knowing good and evil. While Adam just listen to his wife and ate.
Yet eve transgress the law as Adam willfully sinned.
God does deal with sin but I think he is more interested in the cause of it. A wicked heart.
Now what I find interesting is God brings up the pains of child bearing before the knew each other. Why? Is scripture suggesting the the two knew how to multiply or did there attraction to one another become fleshly be cause of there fallen state. Let's not assume anything in scripture.
Perhaps the curse is to remind both of them of there disobedience and the cause and effect it has had on all mankind.

 

[pottersclay]

Let us all be reminded that sin is not a isolated thing. It effects everyone around us and then some. It effects relationships with others, our prayers, our thoughts, our actions. No matter how little or big it has no place in the kingdom of God.
Cursing with death and pain and with sorrows has or should have a effect on one's life. To seek relief. Imo the cursing of God wasn't a punishment but a blessing in disguise. If Adam and eve as with us today had no ramifications of sin who would ask to be saved?
As Adam and eve could not hide
from God nor hide there nakedness so let that lesson be taught. Also we cannot cover ourselves nor our sins may the holy spirit always convict us to repentance.
And may the thought of what we once were before Christ (dead in trespasses and sin) remind us of how loving and caring our God is. As we are a new creation in Christ Jesus.

 

[garee]

I would ask garee what he means by God is one spirit

is he talking oneness here?

God IS Spirit...not one of many...the One and only

however, Christians believe in the Trinity...not one spirit

The Holy Spirit is the Holy Spirit...a different person of the Trinity...not God as spirit or even one spirit

and that is a sidebar to the thread

Hi thanks for the reply. I can offer my two cents as to how I come to that conclusion..

The word Christ itself means anointed. We are the anointed He is the one who does the work of anointing. .The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, our anointing teacher, comforter and guide .

Strongs lexicon....5547 Christos {khris-tos'} from 5548; TDNT - 9:493,1322; adj
AV - Christ 569; 569 Christ = "anointed" 1) Christ was the Messiah, the Son of God 2) anointed

It is why we are warned of the methodology of the antichrsits,The antichrist who insist we need men to teach us as those who anoint with their own human hands. No man is in the place of the Spirit of God, Christ, the Holy Spirit. Oil can be used as a metaphor to resprent the Holy Spirit . But is the Spirit of Christ, the one Holy Spirit of God who does the spiritual work.

1Jo 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that “seduce you”.But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him

God is one Spirit.

A few verse you can take a look at.

One in the same

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

2Corinthians 1:21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;

 

[LaurenTM]

Is it possible that the curse was brought on for women because eves intent was different than Adams for eating the forbidden fruit?
Scripture would suggest that eves intent was to be as God knowing good and evil. While Adam just listen to his wife and ate.
Yet eve transgress the law as Adam willfully sinned.
God does deal with sin but I think he is more interested in the cause of it. A wicked heart.
Now what I find interesting is God brings up the pains of child bearing before the knew each other. Why? Is scripture suggesting the the two knew how to multiply or did there attraction to one another become fleshly be cause of there fallen state. Let's not assume anything in scripture.
Perhaps the curse is to remind both of them of there disobedience and the cause and effect it has had on all mankind.

that's above my pay grade

I don't believe women are cursed by God

please see my post 106 for a more thorough explanation

Let us all be reminded that sin is not a isolated thing. It effects everyone around us and then some. It effects relationships with others, our prayers, our thoughts, our actions. No matter how little or big it has no place in the kingdom of God.
Cursing with death and pain and with sorrows has or should have a effect on one's life. To seek relief. Imo the cursing of God wasn't a punishment but a blessing in disguise. If Adam and eve as with us today had no ramifications of sin who would ask to be saved?
As Adam and eve could not hide
from God nor hide there nakedness so let that lesson be taught. Also we cannot cover ourselves nor our sins may the holy spirit always convict us to repentance.
And may the thought of what we once were before Christ (dead in trespasses and sin) remind us of how loving and caring our God is. As we are a new creation in Christ Jesus.

interesting extraction

my conclusion is that curses are the result of what we do...Adam and Eve were warned...

at any rate, this op is basically addressing if women are still cursed

no they are not

 

[LaurenTM]

Lauren

if we don't do our own studies and seek to know the truth, we will think wrongly. And we do because we are under the prince of the power of the air until we are born again. To be adult is to study the scriptures and believe what God says. I only said that it was controversial because when truth is introduced, there is usually a negative reaction to it.

I don't see where God put a curse on anyone but the serpent. And man was given choice. Disobedience to God brought us all under the power of the enemy. Obedience, to the protection- blessings of God.

So is this a curse from God? Or the result of our own choice?

I was giving other other reasons why we should think that God is nothing but GOOD!

uh....I'm the one that asked that question

we sure don't want to think wrongly

good conclusion there

 

[LaurenTM]

Hi thanks for the reply. I can offer my two cents as to how I come to that conclusion..

The word Christ itself means anointed. We are the anointed He is the one who does the work of anointing. .The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, our anointing teacher, comforter and guide .

Strongs lexicon....5547 Christos {khris-tos'} from 5548; TDNT - 9:493,1322; adj
AV - Christ 569; 569 Christ = "anointed" 1) Christ was the Messiah, the Son of God 2) anointed

It is why we are warned of the methodology of the antichrsits,The antichrist who insist we need men to teach us as those who anoint with their own human hands. No man is in the place of the Spirit of God, Christ, the Holy Spirit. Oil can be used as a metaphor to resprent the Holy Spirit . But is the Spirit of Christ, the one Holy Spirit of God who does the spiritual work.

1Jo 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that “seduce you”.But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him

God is one Spirit.

A few verse you can take a look at.

One in the same

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

2Corinthians 1:21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;

oneness?

yes?

no?

let's simplify it...I'm all about that