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Genesis 3:
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
O.K. the curses. As far as I know snakes still crawl on their belly, women have pain in childbirth, look to their husband for security and leadership and men still have to fight to earn a living and there were always plenty of weeds in my garden.
Yes, we can become new creations in Jesus and our attitude about sinning can change but the curses are still in effect until Jesus comes and rules His kingdom throughout eternity. Sin and death have not been done away with yet.
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
O.K. the curses. As far as I know snakes still crawl on their belly, women have pain in childbirth, look to their husband for security and leadership and men still have to fight to earn a living and there were always plenty of weeds in my garden.
Yes, we can become new creations in Jesus and our attitude about sinning can change but the curses are still in effect until Jesus comes and rules His kingdom throughout eternity. Sin and death have not been done away with yet.
L
yeah....
peace is a funny thing...sometimes you have to fight for it
anyway, I cannot agree with this and if you think this, I wonder what else is coming down the pipe
this might belong in the conspiracy forum or something but not sure why it turned up here
it sounds like you may think 'reproduction' is a result of sin
I actually do not want to discuss this further here...it's way off topic
I am sure you would get some very interesting replies if you start a thread on that
it's kind of off-putting in this one
thanks for understanding
L
my response...way back in post 106...so I don't have to repeat, rinse, repeat...
Originally Posted by Yahshua
lol it may interests you to know that the Hebrew paints this curse for daughters of Eve in a slightly different way.
Genesis 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to {אֶל} thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
אֶל meaning "against" as the short definition.
Translated in scripture as:
- Against (162 times)
- Over (23 times)
- [facing] Toward (75 times)
- Before (11 times)
So we have something like..."and your desire will be {set against} your husband, and [yet] he shall rule over you." In other words, she'll oppose him from then on and yet he'll lead. This makes better sense and also fit's the crime since Eve led Adam instead of he leading her. It also pretty much explains why today...{mumbles quietly}...but thank God we're all new creatures in Christ.
ME...I said this:
so I'm going to sum up what I believe scripture is saying under this post cause I think it describes the state of much of the world and sadly even Christian marriages
I think it is plain that certain curses are still in effect...for example, I think of that weed curse whenever I have to weed yet again...and the sweat of the brow? well that certainly still goes on...even 9 to 5...actually I think that timetable grinds down the soul but that may just be me
women...well...even being one...you see women manipulating all over the place but in a handy about face, men do the same but some go straight to intimidation...just cut the corners please...and some believers teach that a woman should just well...accept that men make the world go round
but they don't
so the salvation for the mess we are in is Jesus. Always Jesus!
neither me nor my husband like to be told what to do...so you can imagine the scene if neither of us were believers
divorce or death would be imminent
so that is the solution then. put Jesus first...not yourself...in putting Him first, in resting IN Him, in believing (having faith) that He is able and He is all that we are not but all that we are IN Him, allows us to go beyond ourselves
we will find that a marriage can indeed be cursed if the participants are outside of that central theme...in ALL your ways acknowledge Him!
salvation is now, salvation is ongoing and salvation is future
so only with Jesus are we no longer cursed...He became that accursed being without God for that moment on the cross when He cried out to His Father and asked why He had turned His face away
God does not turn His face away from us when He sees Jesus...our perfect and eternal High Priest
we have new life ... there is so much to that truth but as we think about ourselves, so we act, so we are...as Proverbs tells us
Genesis 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to {אֶל} thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
אֶל meaning "against" as the short definition.
Translated in scripture as:
- Against (162 times)
- Over (23 times)
- [facing] Toward (75 times)
- Before (11 times)
So we have something like..."and your desire will be {set against} your husband, and [yet] he shall rule over you." In other words, she'll oppose him from then on and yet he'll lead. This makes better sense and also fit's the crime since Eve led Adam instead of he leading her. It also pretty much explains why today...{mumbles quietly}...but thank God we're all new creatures in Christ.
ME...I said this:
so I'm going to sum up what I believe scripture is saying under this post cause I think it describes the state of much of the world and sadly even Christian marriages
I think it is plain that certain curses are still in effect...for example, I think of that weed curse whenever I have to weed yet again...and the sweat of the brow? well that certainly still goes on...even 9 to 5...actually I think that timetable grinds down the soul but that may just be me
women...well...even being one...you see women manipulating all over the place but in a handy about face, men do the same but some go straight to intimidation...just cut the corners please...and some believers teach that a woman should just well...accept that men make the world go round
but they don't
so the salvation for the mess we are in is Jesus. Always Jesus!
neither me nor my husband like to be told what to do...so you can imagine the scene if neither of us were believers
divorce or death would be imminent
so that is the solution then. put Jesus first...not yourself...in putting Him first, in resting IN Him, in believing (having faith) that He is able and He is all that we are not but all that we are IN Him, allows us to go beyond ourselves
we will find that a marriage can indeed be cursed if the participants are outside of that central theme...in ALL your ways acknowledge Him!
salvation is now, salvation is ongoing and salvation is future
so only with Jesus are we no longer cursed...He became that accursed being without God for that moment on the cross when He cried out to His Father and asked why He had turned His face away
God does not turn His face away from us when He sees Jesus...our perfect and eternal High Priest
we have new life ... there is so much to that truth but as we think about ourselves, so we act, so we are...as Proverbs tells us
P
I think ... from some other teachings passed around, around forums and responses on this site to other threads and possibly this one, that they are equating a woman's submission with words spoken by God to Eve in the garden...
it's tiresome because they are stuck on that verse and have missed out on the rest apparently
as AuntieAnt pointed out....with the missing portion of that chapter...and why I would like to not have that introduced as 'evidence' for the 'opposing witness'
it's tiresome because they are stuck on that verse and have missed out on the rest apparently
as AuntieAnt pointed out....with the missing portion of that chapter...and why I would like to not have that introduced as 'evidence' for the 'opposing witness'
Why does it relate back to eve? She was found alone and acted alone. Eve is the type of bride to Christ. Does the church act alone? If it does what are the results?Is the church to act alone?
I read your reply 106 post still don't quite understand what you mean by curse. Eve was created for Adam as a helper not a equal. Sorry but that's God's structure. The world sees marriage as a 50/50 thing it's not. Is Christ not the head of the church? So also is the husband the head of the household including the bride. It is a very accountable position to be in. Being that new creature in Christ brings us back to Adam before the fall. Eve was the helper.
Apparently I'm not getting this or your avoiding the issue. Sorry to be so lame but what curse are you referring to?
P
I find it interesting that people always want to quote in Eph. 5:22 where the wife is to "submit" ( or be subject ) to the husband and yet the very same Greek word for "submit " ( or subject ) is used in Eph. 5:21 for all of us to be "subject" to each other in the fear of Christ.
The word "subject" or "submit" means " to yield to another's admonition or advice." according to Thayer's Greek-Hebrew Lexicon as a meaning.
This says to me that we are to listen to others and be sensitive to the Holy Spirit when they talk as they may be telling us something we need to know or apply.
It does not imply strict adherence to everything they say just because they say it as has been religiously taught in some circles. This has caused great harm in some cases. and in effect left women still living in the curse that Christ redeemed them from.
This very thing had an off-shoot years ago in the "Shepherding Movement" where people had to "subject" everything they did to their pastors. This was ungodly and the fruit produced from that was rotten and not from Christ.
Whenever anyone tries to "lord it over your faith" whether it be a pastor or someone one with formal religious training in any discipline - run from them as fast as our little legs can take us!
That's my 2 bits worth...
The word "subject" or "submit" means " to yield to another's admonition or advice." according to Thayer's Greek-Hebrew Lexicon as a meaning.
This says to me that we are to listen to others and be sensitive to the Holy Spirit when they talk as they may be telling us something we need to know or apply.
It does not imply strict adherence to everything they say just because they say it as has been religiously taught in some circles. This has caused great harm in some cases. and in effect left women still living in the curse that Christ redeemed them from.
This very thing had an off-shoot years ago in the "Shepherding Movement" where people had to "subject" everything they did to their pastors. This was ungodly and the fruit produced from that was rotten and not from Christ.
Whenever anyone tries to "lord it over your faith" whether it be a pastor or someone one with formal religious training in any discipline - run from them as fast as our little legs can take us!
That's my 2 bits worth...
I agree..... and no compromise is ever good when it comes to walking in the freedom we have in Christ. The husband in my opinion would be "lording it over the wife " if he says "I am the husband and what I say goes". The husband is to be in subjection to the wife in the same manner as she is to him. Eph. 5:21 is quite clear on this.
I have seen the very opposite of this too - where the wife was "lording it over the husband".
I believe if the husband is loving her like he should be - she will give yield to his admonition in the Lord in areas. The husband cannot force her to be subject to him. They are to work together as a team because they are one flesh.
If the husband is wise - he will listen and yield to the wife's admonition too in areas and recognize that she has the Spirit of God in her as well.
I have seen the very opposite of this too - where the wife was "lording it over the husband".
I believe if the husband is loving her like he should be - she will give yield to his admonition in the Lord in areas. The husband cannot force her to be subject to him. They are to work together as a team because they are one flesh.
If the husband is wise - he will listen and yield to the wife's admonition too in areas and recognize that she has the Spirit of God in her as well.
So far I've managed to stay out of this thread for the most part, but I think the comments here warrant a response. Genesis 3:6 says, "When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it (emphasis added). Clearly, Eve was not alone and did not act alone.
The Hebrew word 'ezer' translated 'help' in Genesis 2 is used many times of God Himself, in relation to mankind. It's used as such in Dt 33:7, 26 and 29; Psalm 33:20; Psalm 70:5; Psalm 89:19 ('strength' in some versions); Psalm 115:9, and several other places. To me, equating Eve as 'ezer' with a subordinate or assistant-only role does violence to the text and to the character of God. It's also demeaning to half the population, imho. If I get someone to "help" move a piano, I don't consider that person beneath me in status, worth, ability or calling. I believe that God gave Adam a partner who was his equal, not his junior assistant.
The Hebrew word 'ezer' translated 'help' in Genesis 2 is used many times of God Himself, in relation to mankind. It's used as such in Dt 33:7, 26 and 29; Psalm 33:20; Psalm 70:5; Psalm 89:19 ('strength' in some versions); Psalm 115:9, and several other places. To me, equating Eve as 'ezer' with a subordinate or assistant-only role does violence to the text and to the character of God. It's also demeaning to half the population, imho. If I get someone to "help" move a piano, I don't consider that person beneath me in status, worth, ability or calling. I believe that God gave Adam a partner who was his equal, not his junior assistant.
I agree a partner is your equal. Ezer is also means savior.
Word Study
EZER KENEGDO
Usages of 'ezer in the Old Testament show that in most cases God is an 'ezer to human beings, which calls to question if the word "helper" is a valid interpretation of 'ezer in any instance it is used. "Evidence indicates that the word 'ezer originally had two roots, each beginning with different guttural sounds. One meant "power" and the other "strength." As time passed, the two guttural sounds merged, but the meanings remained the same. The article below by William Sulik explains this point quite well. He references R. David Freedman and Biblical Archaeology Review 9 [1983]: 56-58).
"She was to be his "helper"--at least that is how most of the translations have interpreted this word. A sample of the translations reads as follows:
‘I shall make a helper fit for him' (RSV); ‘I will make a fitting helper for him' (New Jewish Publication Society); ‘I will make an aid fit for him' (AB); ‘I will make him a helpmate' (JB); ‘I will make a suitable partner for him' (NAB); ‘I will make him a helper comparable to him' (NKJV).
[Source: Hard Sayings of the Bible by Walter C. Kaiser, Peter H. Davids, F. F. Bruce, and Manfred Brauch]
However, the customary translation of the two words `ezer kenegdo as "helper fit is almost certainly wrong. Recently R. David Freedman has pointed out that the Hebrew word ezer is a combination of two roots: `-z-r, meaning "to rescue, to save," and g-z-r, meaning "to be strong." The difference between the two is the first letter in Hebrew. Today that letter is silent in Hebrew; but in ancient times, it was a guttural sound formed in the back of the throat. The "g" was a ghayyin, and it came to use the same Hebrew symbol as the other sound, `ayin. But the fact that they were pronounced differently is clear from such place names which preserve the "g" sound, such as Gaza or Gomorrah. Some Semitic languages distinguished between these two signs and others did not. For example, Ugaritic did make a distinction between the `ayin and the ghayyin; Hebrew did not. (R. David Freedman, "Woman, a Power Equal to a Man," Biblical Archaeology Review 9 [1983]: 56-58).
It would appear that sometime around 1500 B.C., these two signs began to be represented by one sign in Phoenician. Consequently, the two "phonemes" merged into one "grapheme." What had been two different roots merged into one, much as in English the one word "fast" can refer to a person's speed, abstinence from food, his or her slyness in a "fast deal," or the adamant way in which someone holds "fast" to positions. The noun `ezer occurs twenty-one times in the Old Testament. In many of the passages, it is used in parallelism to words that clearly denote strength or power. Some examples are:
"There is none like the God of Jeshurun, The Rider of the Heavens in your strength (`-z-r), and on the clouds in his majesty." (Deut. 33:26, [author's] translation)
"Blessed are you, O Israel! Who is like you, a people saved by the Lord? He is the shield of your strength (`-z-r) and the sword of your majesty." (Deut. 33:29, [author's] translation)
The case that begins to build is that we can be sure that `ezer means "strength" or "power" whenever it is used in parallelism with words for majesty or other words for power such as `oz or `uzzo. In fact, the presence of two names for one king, Azariah and Uzziah, both referring to God's strength, makes it abundantly clear that the root `ezer meaning "strength" was known in Hebrew.
Therefore, could we conclude that Genesis 2:18 be translated as "I will make a power [or strength] corresponding to man." Freedman even suggests on the basis of later Hebrew that the second word in the Hebrew expression found in this verse should be rendered equal to him. If so, then God makes for the man a woman fully his equal and fully his match. In this way, the man's loneliness will be assuaged.
The same line of reasoning occurs with the apostle Paul, who urged in 1 Corinthians 11:10, "For this reason, a woman must have power [or authority] on her head [that is to say, invested in her]."
This line of reasoning, which stresses full equality, is continued in Genesis 2:23 where Adam says of Eve, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ‘woman,' for she was taken out of man." The idiomatic sense of this phrase "bone of my bones" is a "very close relative" to "one of us" or in effect "our equal."
The woman was never meant to be an assistant or "helpmate" to the man. The word "mate" slipped into English since it was so close to the Old English word "meet," which means "fit to" or "corresponding to" the man which comes from the phrase that likely means "equal to."
What God had intended, then, was to make a "power" or "strength" for the man who would in every way "correspond to him" or even "be his equal.""
The Torah Study for Reform Jews says, "From the time of creation, relationships between spouses have at times been adversarial. In Genesis 2:18, God calls woman an ezer kenegdo, a "helper against him." The great commentator Rashi takes the term literally to make a wonderful point: "If he [Adam] is worthy, [she will be] a help [ezer]. If he is not worthy [she will be] against him [kenegdo] for strife." This Jewish study also described man and woman facing each other with arms raised holding an arch between them, giving a beautiful picture of equal responsibility
I agree a partner is your equal. Ezer is also means savior. This word study states that a wife is a man's helper against him.
Word Study
EZER KENEGDO
Usages of 'ezer in the Old Testament show that in most cases God is an 'ezer to human beings, which calls to question if the word "helper" is a valid interpretation of 'ezer in any instance it is used. "Evidence indicates that the word 'ezer originally had two roots, each beginning with different guttural sounds. One meant "power" and the other "strength." As time passed, the two guttural sounds merged, but the meanings remained the same. The article below by William Sulik explains this point quite well. He references R. David Freedman and Biblical Archaeology Review 9 [1983]: 56-58).
"She was to be his "helper"--at least that is how most of the translations have interpreted this word. A sample of the translations reads as follows:
‘I shall make a helper fit for him' (RSV); ‘I will make a fitting helper for him' (New Jewish Publication Society); ‘I will make an aid fit for him' (AB); ‘I will make him a helpmate' (JB); ‘I will make a suitable partner for him' (NAB); ‘I will make him a helper comparable to him' (NKJV).
[Source: Hard Sayings of the Bible by Walter C. Kaiser, Peter H. Davids, F. F. Bruce, and Manfred Brauch]
However, the customary translation of the two words `ezer kenegdo as "helper fit is almost certainly wrong. Recently R. David Freedman has pointed out that the Hebrew word ezer is a combination of two roots: `-z-r, meaning "to rescue, to save," and g-z-r, meaning "to be strong." The difference between the two is the first letter in Hebrew. Today that letter is silent in Hebrew; but in ancient times, it was a guttural sound formed in the back of the throat. The "g" was a ghayyin, and it came to use the same Hebrew symbol as the other sound, `ayin. But the fact that they were pronounced differently is clear from such place names which preserve the "g" sound, such as Gaza or Gomorrah. Some Semitic languages distinguished between these two signs and others did not. For example, Ugaritic did make a distinction between the `ayin and the ghayyin; Hebrew did not. (R. David Freedman, "Woman, a Power Equal to a Man," Biblical Archaeology Review 9 [1983]: 56-58).
It would appear that sometime around 1500 B.C., these two signs began to be represented by one sign in Phoenician. Consequently, the two "phonemes" merged into one "grapheme." What had been two different roots merged into one, much as in English the one word "fast" can refer to a person's speed, abstinence from food, his or her slyness in a "fast deal," or the adamant way in which someone holds "fast" to positions. The noun `ezer occurs twenty-one times in the Old Testament. In many of the passages, it is used in parallelism to words that clearly denote strength or power. Some examples are:
"There is none like the God of Jeshurun, The Rider of the Heavens in your strength (`-z-r), and on the clouds in his majesty." (Deut. 33:26, [author's] translation)
"Blessed are you, O Israel! Who is like you, a people saved by the Lord? He is the shield of your strength (`-z-r) and the sword of your majesty." (Deut. 33:29, [author's] translation)
The case that begins to build is that we can be sure that `ezer means "strength" or "power" whenever it is used in parallelism with words for majesty or other words for power such as `oz or `uzzo. In fact, the presence of two names for one king, Azariah and Uzziah, both referring to God's strength, makes it abundantly clear that the root `ezer meaning "strength" was known in Hebrew.
Therefore, could we conclude that Genesis 2:18 be translated as "I will make a power [or strength] corresponding to man." Freedman even suggests on the basis of later Hebrew that the second word in the Hebrew expression found in this verse should be rendered equal to him. If so, then God makes for the man a woman fully his equal and fully his match. In this way, the man's loneliness will be assuaged.
The same line of reasoning occurs with the apostle Paul, who urged in 1 Corinthians 11:10, "For this reason, a woman must have power [or authority] on her head [that is to say, invested in her]."
This line of reasoning, which stresses full equality, is continued in Genesis 2:23 where Adam says of Eve, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ‘woman,' for she was taken out of man." The idiomatic sense of this phrase "bone of my bones" is a "very close relative" to "one of us" or in effect "our equal."
The woman was never meant to be an assistant or "helpmate" to the man. The word "mate" slipped into English since it was so close to the Old English word "meet," which means "fit to" or "corresponding to" the man which comes from the phrase that likely means "equal to."
What God had intended, then, was to make a "power" or "strength" for the man who would in every way "correspond to him" or even "be his equal.""
The Torah Study for Reform Jews says, "From the time of creation, relationships between spouses have at times been adversarial. In Genesis 2:18, God calls woman an ezer kenegdo, a "helper against him." The great commentator Rashi takes the term literally to make a wonderful point: "If he [Adam] is worthy, [she will be] a help [ezer]. If he is not worthy [she will be] against him [kenegdo] for strife." This Jewish study also described man and woman facing each other with arms raised holding an arch between them, giving a beautiful picture of equal responsibility
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T
My understanding is that Creation as a whole still lies under the curse of sin (looking forward to when Jesus returns so it can be completely restored), but that the ground itself was healed post-Flood. In essence, it would've been even more difficult to work the land in the times before the Flood (but after the Fall). I'm not sure what that would look like though because any farmer would tell you that working the land is very troublesome at times.
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L
respect goes a long way
I don't know what all some of you are going on about
you obviously lack respect
how is that you say?
by deliberately taking this thread into the topic of women's submission...sans the fact men are to have sacrificial love for their wives...after I have asked half a dozen times to please not do that
so, don't even try...don't bother...to try and tell others all about how much you know
no respect...no care that someone has asked please do not do that
this causes more arguments in the BDF than anything else
well, enjoy yourselves then
I'm done
you are demonstrating what you have not learned....not what you know
I don't know what all some of you are going on about
you obviously lack respect
how is that you say?
by deliberately taking this thread into the topic of women's submission...sans the fact men are to have sacrificial love for their wives...after I have asked half a dozen times to please not do that
so, don't even try...don't bother...to try and tell others all about how much you know
no respect...no care that someone has asked please do not do that
this causes more arguments in the BDF than anything else
well, enjoy yourselves then
I'm done
you are demonstrating what you have not learned....not what you know
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Thanks I can try to simplify the peace of God that surpasses all human understanding. He our teacher is much better at it than us.
If you mean one Spirit yes.( Christ's) The same Spirit of faith that works in us according as "it" is written. The mutual faith of Christ that all Christians share (not of our own selves)
2Corinthians 4:13 We having the same "spirit of faith", according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have "I spoken"; we also believe, and therefore "speak";
Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Below is the mystery that surpasses all human understanding .
Believing it which does not take understanding on our part he gives us that.But it is from the faith of God that works in us.As Philippians informs us of the faith of Christ .It works in us to both will and do His good pleasure as imputed .no man will be found with a righteous ness
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
One Spirit. Christ the anointing Holy Spirit . One faith as two working together in mutual submission .The father and Son . One baptism of the one Holy anointing Spirit. Together as a mystery bringing the peace of God (the Father and the Son) that surpasses all human understand.
Philippians 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
If you mean one Spirit yes.( Christ's) The same Spirit of faith that works in us according as "it" is written. The mutual faith of Christ that all Christians share (not of our own selves)
2Corinthians 4:13 We having the same "spirit of faith", according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have "I spoken"; we also believe, and therefore "speak";
Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Below is the mystery that surpasses all human understanding .
Believing it which does not take understanding on our part he gives us that.But it is from the faith of God that works in us.As Philippians informs us of the faith of Christ .It works in us to both will and do His good pleasure as imputed .no man will be found with a righteous ness
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
One Spirit. Christ the anointing Holy Spirit . One faith as two working together in mutual submission .The father and Son . One baptism of the one Holy anointing Spirit. Together as a mystery bringing the peace of God (the Father and the Son) that surpasses all human understand.
Philippians 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;