ask Word of Faith! WOF

[CeileDe]

I spoke with various non-believers for eight years on two different sites before joining this site. The attacks on me started immediately simply because I identify as Christian. It was quite an education... I used to tell my daughter some of the things they said to me; she was horrified and wondered how I could stand it. I think they hated on me all the more and intensified their attacks just because I would not back down from them, especially on the first site, which was a secular site with very little moderation. I have never had a Christian talk to me like atheists have. Also, it seemed to me that the most bitter atheists were ones that had at one time believed themselves to be born again Christians, and served in multiple ministries over many years before walking away from their faith. They would say, they had been deceived, without being able to admit that maybe they had somehow possibly been deceived into giving up their faith. Sad, for sure. Anyways, I do know what you mean, I just largely disagree, even while acknowledging that there are quite a few skirmishes between Christians, and harsh words spoken. Whatever you do, don't mention the Catholics That's a whole 'nother conversation

I hear you. That co-worker I was talking about attacks me daily. I just smile and thank God for being allowed to be persecuted. It is a new experience for me.

 

[LaurenTM]

No problem. Maybe if it is a reoccurring theme with you then it might stem from you not others?

nope...

I actually get along quite well with men...it's the religious know it alls that have a problem with me

 

[CharlieGrown]

This is one of those topics that causes such knee jerk reaction. Is anyone on this thread stating that the gifts of the Spirit are not applicable? Reel it in folks, this is why Christians are considered to be illogical and self abusing. The topic is WOF. If you don't know what that is, with respect do your research.

 

[CeileDe]

nope...

I actually get along quite well with men...it's the religious know it alls that have a problem with me

You can be perceived as one of those religious no it alls. If the shoe fits wear it

 

[LaurenTM]

Oh and the Apostles healed on demand. Guess they must have been the first WoF

you stating the above, is where the snottiness started

me calling you out on it, and asking if you healed on demand is when you called me bitter

so, do you heal on demand?

 

[CeileDe]

you stating the above, is where the snottiness started

me calling you out on it, and asking if you healed on demand is when you called me bitter

now you can be a nice boy and just cut it out and I will forget it also

I'm not even a WoF believer. But I will call out bitterness when I see it. I have nothing to gain to contest your attacks on WoF.

 

[LaurenTM]

Yes, and I suspect we'd be surprised how many of those on the TBN list of WOF people were inspired by Peale's work. He taught how to "visualize" what you want in hypnotic state and it will manifest...sound biblical? Not so much.

many Christians today practice visualization and it is not biblical

 

[blue_ladybug]

Hey now, I disagree with her sometimes. Respectfully of course. But she's never gone on "attack mode" with me. Now everybody play nice, because it's Thanksgiving!!

Lol if you read my post earlier in this thread you would already know the answer to your questions. Quit being so snotty and aggressive. If someone disagrees with you go on attack mode. I've read a lot of your posts and well you are plain mean and bitter.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Why do we need words of faith from men, preachers, whoever, when we already have the words of faith from GOD?

 

[CeileDe]

There is nothing biblical about driving cars or watching TV. I meditate on the Word of God and visualize as I do. I sometimes visualize the face of Jesus. Is this evil to do so because it doesn't say it in the bible?

 

[LaurenTM]

I'm not even a WoF believer. But I will call out bitterness when I see it. I have nothing to gain to contest your attacks on WoF.

let's look at how you talk now

I, with more than half this forum, would contest the validity of WOF with good bible based doctrine

you see that as an attack...but that might be because you have decided to slide into misogynistic attacks with your personal observations

you are just being silly with your name calling and bias towards someone you disagree with

you are doing EXACTLY what you told your co-worker Christians do

too bad you cannot hold a decent conversation and have to resort to name calling and personal assassination

you fit in all too well

 

[Magenta]

I hear you. That co-worker I was talking about attacks me daily. I just smile and thank God for being allowed to be persecuted. It is a new experience for me.

Gay people may automatically assume that you are going to go all Westboro Baptist on them and make pre-emptive strikes thinking you are more aligned with that type of attitude toward them before really getting to know you. The church I was baptized in twelve years ago was so hell bent on damning gays, I left the Bible study I was attending there, and eventually that particular church altogether. I do not need lessons on who or how or why to hate

 

[CeileDe]

let's look at how you talk now

I, with more than half this forum, would contest the validity of WOF with good bible based doctrine

you see that as an attack...but that might be because you have decided to slide into misogynistic attacks with your personal observations

you are just being silly with your name calling and bias towards someone you disagree with

you are doing EXACTLY what you told your co-worker Christians do

too bad you cannot hold a decent conversation and have to resort to name calling and personal assassination

you fit in all too well

Maybe I do. Best thing to do here is to put you on ignore. I have dealt with your type before and it never changes.

 

[LaurenTM]

Maybe I do. Best thing to do here is to put you on ignore. I have dealt with your type before and it never changes.

you do what you think you have to do

there are reasons why some people do not get along in this forum and frankly, calling names is one of them

every single person in this forum who calls others names, resorts to personal attacks and belittling

that is what you have done

you did not stay on topic...you got angry when I asked if you healed on demand...and of course you don't...you just like to throw up the words cause they sound all knowing

 

[LaurenTM]

word of faith movement:

1. They preach a “rights centered” gospel rather then a "stewardship centered" gospel.

Perhaps influenced by our Jeffersonian heritage of individual rights in America, the way the gospel is applied to individuals in the Word of Faith movement is based on personal rights in Christ. Although this is partially true, the New Testament balances our rights in Christ with our responsibility that goes along with these rights.

For example, in Deuteronomy 8:18, we learn that God gave believers “power to get wealth, that His may establish His covenant.” This passage clearly teaches us the primary purpose of prosperity is for the kingdom—not only for our individual comfort and pleasure. Many in the faith movement used to “claim” houses and cars and attempt to use their faith merely for their own individual needs, which, in and of itself, goes against our call to seek first His kingdom (Matt. 6:33) as a prerequisite for our individual needs and wants being fulfilled.


source

 

[PeterJens]

My experience with WOF has been through the vineyard fellowship and
a house church who got involved with Benny Hinn.

This morphed into NAR and Todd Bentley and the strange fire experiences, and
angel theology pushed by Bethel.

My kids go to churches on the fringes of these movements.
The core idea seems to be faith without boundaries, going outside ones comfort
zone.

On a simple life issue, people believe God will do the impossible, but when praying
for ill people, with cancer, they die. So simple formulas are absurd.

Last year we did a bible study on healing, reaching out to God.
This year a friend got ill with cancer, and though I wanted to reach out in faith
and believe for healing, it was not appropriate. He died a few weeks ago.
But he was in his 80's, and the Lord called him home.

It seems this mix of our mortality, with an immortal desire to stop our mortality
coming to an end, seem the flaw in the thinking and outlook.

The other is people will come to faith if they see miracles. Well mainly no, they
will think it is something else and find other excuses. The problem with all of us
has always been sin, and us refusing to give up and admit we need God to help
and be with us.

It is not a question of God the magic wand giver, because this is a lie.
This has been my experience.

 

[pottersclay]

My experience with WOF has been through the vineyard fellowship and
a house church who got involved with Benny Hinn.

This morphed into NAR and Todd Bentley and the strange fire experiences, and
angel theology pushed by Bethel.

My kids go to churches on the fringes of these movements.
The core idea seems to be faith without boundaries, going outside ones comfort
zone.

On a simple life issue, people believe God will do the impossible, but when praying
for ill people, with cancer, they die. So simple formulas are absurd.

Last year we did a bible study on healing, reaching out to God.
This year a friend got ill with cancer, and though I wanted to reach out in faith
and believe for healing, it was not appropriate. He died a few weeks ago.
But he was in his 80's, and the Lord called him home.

It seems this mix of our mortality, with an immortal desire to stop our mortality
coming to an end, seem the flaw in the thinking and outlook.

The other is people will come to faith if they see miracles. Well mainly no, they
will think it is something else and find other excuses. The problem with all of us
has always been sin, and us refusing to give up and admit we need God to help
and be with us.

It is not a question of God the magic wand giver, because this is a lie.
This has been my experience.

Can you expound on this more? The part where cancer people die and why you did not pray for healing.

 

[PeterJens]

Can you expound on this more? The part where cancer people die and why you did not pray for healing.

Our church is full of elderly people some in their nineties, a few suffering from dementia,
heart complaints, occasionally cancer diseases.

Certain high profile people have been open to be prayed for, while others would rather remain
quite and go to the doctors.

When a brother is in a difficult place ofcourse we all pray for them and the Lords will to be worked
out. It becomes more difficult, if you start saying, this guy here should be healed and this one there
not. So as a group, we pray for those who ask, and we pray quietly for those who do not.

Now I personally would only pray openly for such a thing if the situation arose and they were happy
for this. With the elderly, who are frail, and in terminal decline, you need to be real and caring.
Holding out the idea of healing being there is often totally in-appropriate, rather coming to terms
with dying and the end is where things are going. This is even more clear with a brother who you
know very well, and if they wanted prayer in this way would ask. But there is a time for birth and
a time for death and going to be with the Lord, which is a glorious thing.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Not every person with cancer, dies. Nor does EVERY cancer person who has (or hasn't) been prayed for, die.. Some do, some don't and only God knows why.. But don't feel guilty for not praying for them. If it's God's will for them to die, then all the prayers in the world, for them to survive, won't matter.

 

[NarrowRoadDisciple]

There is nothing biblical about driving cars or watching TV. I meditate on the Word of God and visualize as I do. I sometimes visualize the face of Jesus. Is this evil to do so because it doesn't say it in the bible?

Let's not get into that straw man argument. Just because something isn't in the bible doesn't mean that we condemn it. Too many people throw out random stuff such as... oh cars, computers, fish tanks, etc aren't in the bible. These statements are not applicable to any argument.

When it comes to spiritual understanding and practice in the order that God gives, then yes, it must line up with the scriptures. Also, before someone states this, a terrible argument is that this will put God in a box. Why? God already tells us what He will and will not do in terms of biblical practice and principle.

The original intent behind WoF may have been scriptural, but it has progressed rather sadly into something that is not biblical. When the WoF movement finally denounces these practices and has their churches return to the biblical intent and context of what the Lord has said in His word, then we will stop standing against it.