Attack of the Judaizers

Elin · Feb 13, 2014

Keeping in mind that the peace is with God, due to no longer being his enemies
because our sin has been forgiven (Lk 1:77) through faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ (Ro 3:25).

Ephesians 6:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

Hoffco · Feb 14, 2014

To just-me, Since you quoted my post, I will assume you think I am a Juidaizer making an attack on you the Christian. And I assume you think you can be a Christian and still add all of Moses to Christ; OR, you think you can be a law-less sinner and still be a Christian, as a "faith only" Christian and carnal as a GOAT. Which Christian are you? Or are christian in name only? Love to all, Hoffco

Hoffco · Feb 14, 2014

To just-me, Since you quoted my post, I will assume you think I am a Juidaizer making an attack on you the Christian. And I assume you think you can be a Christian and still add all of Moses to Christ; OR, you think you can be a law-less sinner and still be a Christian, as a "faith only" Christian and carnal as a GOAT. Which Christian are you? Or are christian in name only? Are you saying you, are not a man of Peace? No! I think, that was a joke,LOL. Love to all, Hoffco

ProphetExcalibur · Feb 14, 2014

KittenofMelchisedek said:

And yet here you are!

ProphetExcalibur · Feb 14, 2014

Elin said:

Nice post Elin!
It is the forgiveness of sin that is the key.

if your sins have been forgiven you and cast as far as the East is from the West, to be remembered no more!
There is no taskmaster here! ....Love covereth a multitude of sins...
And the Holy Spirit is not the same as the Law of God!
This is what those who seek to rule over God's Taskmaster, the Law, cannot get.

Why is God's grace sufficient? !!!Jesus' Love for 'Abba' God His Father; being obedient even unto death,
the death of the Cross, in fulfilling the Law and the Prophets!!!
This is the love that coverth a multitude of sins! The love of the Son for His Father!
Who laid Himself down as a sheep for the slaughter!

The Taskmaster was that slaughter, and the Sheep was the offering to God for sin in that slaughter!
Those who demand others to come back under this slaughter, are insane!
And as you've said to me several times Elin, Judaizers love walking on both sides of the fence. How true!
When the Scripture says, that .....Jesus did not come to do away with the Law and the Prophets but to fulfill them, this is what He was speaking about......

The Taskmaster, requires a sacrifice!
Jesus fulfilled the requirements, and absorbed in His Body and Soul the Law and the Prophets completely in Himself!
This is why He and He alone can forgive you, your sins and cast them as far as the East is from the West! To never be remembered again! This is the Good News of Jesus Christ.

Those who are fixated on the Law of God, as if they can rule over it, do not understand;
that the same slaughter is still required out side of Christ Jesus!
If people cannot see this in the Slaughter of the two Holocaust's,
then it's clear they cannot be reasoned with, if they are either Jews or anybody else!

The Gospel of peace, through faith in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ!!
You nailed it, that is contending for the faith!
just some of my thoughts

Hoffco · Feb 15, 2014

Jesus' life fulfilled the holiness of the law; Jesus' death paid the penalty of the broken law of God. I understand that perfectly. NOW God is just to save sinners. From this point ,you go crazy. Who is trying to rule over God's taskmaster? the law. (NOT ME), I can now kept God's law with gladness and love in my heart, and it is not a burden to me ,nor a curse to me because Jesus paid for all my short comings, sins. Nor was it a burden for David, Zacharias, Elizabeth,and Mary, Joseph. who keep the law : blamelessly. Because they offered a lamb for there sins. Lk.1:6. The law did not put Jesus to death, The Father put Jesus to death for our sins, Acts 2:23 "Him (Jesus) being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God,..." Foreknowledge is LOVE, Jh.3:16. God has always demanded His people to live by His holy, wonderful laws, for their health and safety, now and eternally. God's blessing are for those who obey His laws and God's curse is upon those who disobey God. I certainly understand why God has had to "slaughter" punish, His disobedient people. Your words are very inflammatory. I would not be caught being so insightfully stiring up trouble as you do. I love the law ,the Bible, of God. and seek to keep it every day, to the glory of my Holy Father, my God. May you do the same. Love to all, Hoffco

ClaudiaT · Feb 15, 2014

danschance said:

Perhaps you are ignorant what a Judaizer is.

There is a big difference between the Handwriting of Ordinances and the Ceremonial Law, verses the Ten Commandments, called "The Royal Law".

The 10 Commandment Law will never end. It is God's Government, the transcript of His own character of His Love.

It will never be "okay" to worship other gods, to bow to graven images, to take God's name in vain or to break His 7th Day Sabbath.

It will never be "okay" to steal from your neighbour, kill your neighbour, commit adultery with your neighbour, or to covet your neighbor's goods.

Jesus said the following words:

Matthew 22[SUP]36 [/SUP]Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

[SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Matthew 19:15-17

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

What is sin?
1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Are we permitted to sin now (transgress the Law of God) because we are under grace?

Romans 6:1-3
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Romans 6:15
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

James 2:

8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

This has nothing to do with being a "Judaizer". You are simply confused about the difference between the Ceremonial Law and the 10 Commandment Law.

God never told us its ok to go out and kill, steal, commit adultery, worship other gods, take the name of God in vain, etc.

Notice that the 10 commandment Law is SUMMARIZED by saying LOVE THY NEIGHBOR. By the way, Jesus got the two greatest laws of love God and love thy neighbour from the OLD TESTAMENT. Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

Romans 13:
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

ClaudiaT · Feb 15, 2014

In response to the initial opening post.... This might help you to realize there are two different Laws. One was temporary, the other is permanent. Its the people who stick to Moses' Law that are 'Judaizers'. Not the people who advocate keeping the 'Royal Law' or the 10 Commandments.

MOSES' LAW
1. Called "the law of Moses" (Luke 2:22).
2. Called "law ... contained in ordinances" (Ephesians 2:15).
3. Written by Moses in a book (2 Chronicles 35:12).
4. Placed in the side of the ark (Deuteronomy 31:26).
5. Ended at the cross (Ephesians 2:15).
6. Added because of sin (Galatians 3:19).
7. Contrary to us, against us (Colossians 2:14).
8. Judges no one (Colossians 2:14-16).
9. Carnal (Hebrews 7:16).
10. Made nothing perfect (Hebrews 7:19).

GOD'S LAW
1. Called "the law of the Lord" (Isaiah 5:24).
2. Called "the royal law" (James 2:8).
3. Written by God on stone (Exodus 31:18 32:16).
4. Placed inside the ark (Exodus 40:20).
5. Will stand forever (Luke 16:17).
6. Points out sin (Romans 7:7 3:20).
7. Not grievous (1 John 5:3).
8. Judges all people (James 2:10-12).
9. Spiritual (Romans 7:14).
10. Perfect (Psalms 19:7).

Hoffco · Feb 15, 2014

To ClaudaT, Thanks for your 2 posts 2347-8 .Your clarification on the different laws of God is much needed. People don't seen to get a handle on this, or they just don't want to learn, and only want to make confusion and division. Paul tells us that one who causes division should be disciplined. which is not totally out of the question here , I'm sure some discipline can be given, privately. when needed. I don't like to see people thrown out. and glad the administtion does not do it offten. Love to all. Hoffco

phil112 · Feb 15, 2014

ClaudiaT said:

Perhaps, since you seem to be so much more informed on this subject than the "great unwashed", you can tell us just exactly what "God's law" is? I mean if they exist, how could we follow them if we didn't know what they are?

And while you are delving into that fountain of knowledge, perhaps you can also tell us just how many ordinances in the bible are written in stone?
2 Corinthians 3:6,7

Elin · Feb 15, 2014

john832 said:

The NT does not state that Jesus' two commands in Mt 22:37-39 are a summation of the Ten
Commandments.

And since the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39) fulfills (performs) the law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13;8, 9, 10, Gal 5:6),
there is no Biblical basis for preferring the law over Christ's law.
In the NT, it is rather clear that the law is:

1) the law of Christ (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2) given in Mt 22:37-39,
which fulfills (performs) the law (Mt 22:40; Ro 138, 9, 10, Gal 5:6), and

2) and the NT commands, of which there are a plethora.

There really should be no disagreement among NT believers on this clear NT teaching,
which is the revelation spoken by the Son in the last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers.

Keeping in mind that the NT revelation given by Jesus to the apostles was not complete
because his work on which the revelation depended was not completed and, therefore,
could not have been understood sufficiently.

However, the revelation given by Jesus to Paul, anywhere from 5-8 years later,
is complete because Jesus' work on which it depended was complete.

So Jesus' incomplete revelation given to the apostles must be understood
in the light of Jesus' latter and complete revelation given to Paul.

Elin · Feb 15, 2014

john832 said:

And therein lies the problem. . .they are not the same, by longshot.

The OT law was external, written on tablets of stone, to which they were to conform.

The NT law of love (Mt 22:37-39) is internal, written by the Holy Spirit on human hearts,
who conforms them, without their consultation to a written code for compliance.

The difference between them is manifest. . .are you just being obdurate?

Elin · Feb 15, 2014

just-me said:

That is not the way Paul used it in Gal 2:14.

He accused Peter of Judaizing, and Peter did not advocate that salvation comes through works
that are necessary first before a complete trust in Christ.

Judaizing is not requiring works for salvation, it is salvation by faith alone which adds Jewish customs
to obedience of the gospel, as did Peter in Gal 2:14.

There seems to be an effort among Judaizers (saved by faith alone, adding Jewish customs to obey)
to define Paul's word in a different way; i.e., requiring works for salvation, so they can disclaim
being what they are.

Elin · Feb 15, 2014

Hizikyah said:

Prior to his completed work for its understanding, the revelation of Christ was begun to the apostles
and then after his work was completed in his revelation to Paul when it could be understood.

The latter complete revelation of Christ to Paul is the light in which Christ's former
incomplete revelation to the apostles is to be understood.

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Yahchanan (John) 4:25-26, "The woman said to Him; I know that the Messiah comes, and when He comes, He will tell us all things. Yahshua said to her: I am He speaking to you."

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Yahchanan (John) 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Luke 6:46, "And why call Me; Ruler! Ruler! and do not the things which I say?"

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Yahchanan 8:31, "...If you continue in My doctrine, then you are truly My disciples."

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"

Mattithyah 19-17-21, "But He said to him: Why do you question Me about righteousness? There is only One Who is the standard of perfection, and that is Yahweh; so if you would enter into life, keep the Laws of Yahweh. He then asked Yahshua; Which ones? Yahshua said: You shall not murder. You shall not ccommit adultery. You shall not dsteal. You shall not bear false testimony. Honor your efather and mother, and; You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The young man said to Him; All these things I have kept from my youth up; what do I yet lack? Yahshua said to him: If you want to come to the perfection of Yahweh, go and sell of what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and you will be walking in Yahweh's ways, and following Me."

Mattithyah 5:20-30, ""For I say to you: Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will certainly not enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment; But I say to you: Whoever is angry with his brother will be in danger of the judgment! Again, anyone who says; Raca! insulting your brother, will be in danger of the Sanhedrin, but whoever says: Nabel! desiring them to fall away, will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna. Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there you remember that your brother has something against you; Leave your gift there before the altar, and go first and be reconciled with your brother; then come and offer your gift. Settle a controversy with your accuser quickly, before he gets you into court; or your adversary may deliver you to the judge, the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be put into prison. Truly I say to you: You will never come out of there until you have paid the last penny. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not commit adultery; But I say to you: Whoever looks on a woman with lust for her, has already committed adultery with her in his heart. So if your right eye causes you to offend; sin, gouge it out and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna. Or if your right hand causes you to offend, cut it off and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna."

Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

"Laws" is word #1785 entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

"Laws" is word #1785 entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Mark 13:22-23, "For false messiahs and false prophets will rise, and will produce signs and wonders to lead astray, if it were possible, even the elect. So be on your guard! Behold I have warned you of all things beforehand!"

Yahchanan (John) 14:23, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My teachings and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

Mattithyah 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

Previously addressed. . .numerous times.

Elin · Feb 15, 2014

ClaudiaT said:

In response to the initial opening post.... This might help you to realize
there are two different Laws. One was temporary, the other is permanent. Its the people who stick to
Moses' Law that are 'Judaizers'. Not the people who advocate keeping the
'Royal Law' or the 10 Commandments.

MOSES' LAW
1. Called "the law of Moses" (Luke 2:22).
2. Called "law ... contained in ordinances" (Ephesians 2:15).
3. Written by Moses in a book (2 Chronicles 35:12).
4. Placed in the side of the ark (Deuteronomy 31:26).
5. Ended at the cross (Ephesians 2:15).
6. Added because of sin (Galatians 3:19).
7. Contrary to us, against us (Colossians 2:14).
8. Judges no one (Colossians 2:14-16).
9. Carnal (Hebrews 7:16).
10. Made nothing perfect (Hebrews 7:19).

GOD'S LAW
1. Called "the law of the Lord" (Isaiah 5:24).
2. Called "the royal law" (James 2:8).
3. Written by God on stone (Exodus 31:18 32:16).
4. Placed inside the ark (Exodus 40:20).
5. Will stand forever (Luke 16:17).
6. Points out sin (Romans 7:7 3:20).
7. Not grievous (1 John 5:3).
8. Judges all people (James 2:10-12).
9. Spiritual (Romans 7:14).
10. Perfect (Psalms 19:7).

Okay, pardon me for saying so, but Moses' law is God's law (Lev 1:1).

Are you saying the Mosaic law, which includes the Decalogue (Ex 20:1-17),
came from Moses on his own authority (Ex 24:4, 7)?

That is wrongly dividing the Word of God.

ProphetExcalibur · Feb 15, 2014

Hoffco said:

1

Good to hear from you Hoffco
Your a little mixed up here brother but that's ok!

The Father did not put Jesus to death, it is the Law of God that required a bloody sacrifice!
This Law always pointed Ancient Israel to their Messiah,
because in Him is found the purpose and foreknowledge of God!

When the faithful of Old Covenant Israel died they were taken captive to Sheol to 'Abraham's Bosom';
And awaited their time for the Slaughter, unless someone come and paid the price in Blood on their behalf, for sin and death! Because of this Jesus was slaughtered by the requirement of the Law of God.
...... the Law of God was given for this purpose!

However, Jesus as the Lamb of God, went willingly, through obedience as a Lamb to this slaughter!
Because of Jesus' love for God, He became the Kinsmen Redeemer and the sacrifice God accepted!
.....it is this Love that coverth a multitude of sins....

The Bible is not the Law Hoff! The Bible is the Word of God!
It is the two Covenants of God to Israel; the Old and New!
******In this lies the problem of most of this thread.
It is through God's Covenant's that we are given to know God, not His Law!
Being in Covenant with God, puts us under a proper Covering, from the Slaughter of the Death Angel!

The Law of God is His Taskmaster, and with it comes a slaughter!
It was given to Covenant Israel to point them in faith, forward to their Messiah!
((It is through this faith in Messiah that they would escape this slaughter of the Law! ))
((Their faith was in their Messiah, and not in the Law of God))
It was the unfaithful of Covenant Israel who were slaughtered,
because, they knew not the time of their visitation of their Kinsmen Redeemer!

Do you not understand that the slaughter is not yet over?
That is why the Gospel is still being preached!
It is the same Law, that brings the same slaughter!
So if you are trying to follow God's Law, you are trying to rule over God's Taskmaster!
Do what you must do, all I can do is Shout! from the tower, The enemy is in the Camp!

Love Jesus, not the Law!? For in Him is fulfilled ALL of the Law and the Prophets!
Love the Word of God, the Bible, that's wonderful so do I!

danschance · Feb 15, 2014

ClaudiaT said:

The New Testament believer is under the law of Christ (Gal. 6:2, 1 Cor 9:21).
Many bible scholars believe Christ stated what the law of Christ is (Mark 12:28-31)
(I would add that all of the laws of God rest on these points)

Jesus filled the Mosaic law and brought it to completion or conclusion.
(Romans 10:4, Gal 3:23-25, Eph 2:15)

danschance · Feb 15, 2014

ClaudiaT said:

Calling others ignorant might be considered inflammatory and it is a word I tend to not use for that reason. I do know what a judaizer is. It is a person who teaches gentiles to live as a Jew by absorbing part or all of Jewish customs, or beliefs. I started this thread to warn Christians of the dangers of this movement. Those who think they are justified by the Mosaic law might forfeit their salvation according to Gal 5:4. Thank you for posting.

Elin · Feb 16, 2014

ClaudiaT said:

A Judaizer is a professing Christian who adds the practice of Jewish customs to Christian living.
(Gal 2:14)

Are you ignorant of what the royal law is?

The royal law is not the Ten Commandments, it is the law of "love your neighbor as yourself" (Jas 2:8).

So in keeping Christ's law of love (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8-10; Gal 5:6),
all the Ten Commandments are fulfilled.

Are you saying that we can keep the commandments well enough to earn eternal life?

Paul is explaining that we "establish the law" in the NT
by establishing the right use of the law,
that we are not overthrowing (making void) the law, but establishing (upholding) its standing
by setting it on the right basis; i.e., subject to the law of grace.

Relevance?

Is anyone here saying we shall sin because we are not under the Mosaic law?

So does anyone earn eternal life by keeping the law (Mt 19:17)?

Please explain what the "law of liberty" is.

Agreed.

A Judaizer adds Jewish customs to his Christian living.

Relevance to obedience to Jesus' commands?

Hoffco · Feb 16, 2014

Elin, How can one be saved and keeping braking the moral laws of God? Salvation is not by a dead faith. you said that yourself,"dead faith can not save" these are your words. How can you not see your two facedness? Love hoffco

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