Attacks on the Rapture: a popular pastime among some Christians

[cv5]

What part of THESE ALL DIED do you not understand? Seriously did you not know that this was part of that passage? Everybody mentioned in the previous verse DIED.

Heb 11:13 (KJV) These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Are you out of your mind?

 

[KJV1611]

Are you out of your mind?

No but apparently you are lol. The verses tell us that Enoch was translated prior to the death of his body because Enoch didn’t see death but yet his body died. There is no other explanation.

 

[cv5]

No but apparently you are lol. The verses tell us that Enoch was translated prior to the death of his body because Enoch didn’t see death but yet his body died. There is no other explanation.

Other than he did not die and was translated into a glorious body and brought to heaven. Like the Scripture says in two places.

 

[KJV1611]

Other than he did not die and was translated into a glorious body and brought to heaven. Like the Scripture says in two places.

So are you saying the Bible is messed up where it included Enoch on the list of people that died?

 

[Absolutely]

Being raptured (or dead...) is *A* way Christians can be spared God's wrath, but not the only way. As you illustrated, Lot was not raptured.

Rapture does not mean dead.
Where are you getting that from.?
Nobody believes that.

Do you guys realize you need a example of believers taken after the judgement?
JESUS SAID "BEFORE THE FLOOD"...you guys pull "after" out of thin air.

JESUS SAID "AS WITH LOT"
BUT YOU GUY CHANGE IT.
PSSSST.....LOT WAS TAKEN OUT pre judgment/ pretrib.

Impossible to muddy that up...YET YOU GUYS DO.

IT IS AS IF YOU GUYS WALK UP 2 FT FROM THE BARN ,FIRE BOTH BARRELS AND MISS THE BARN.

WHAT PART OF "BEFORE" AND "LOT" ARE BEYOND YOUR COMPREHENSION.?

 

[KJV1611]

Other than he did not die and was translated into a glorious body and brought to heaven. Like the Scripture says in two places.

Now I do agree with you that Enoch went to the OLD HEAVEN aka Abraham’s bosom and later, at the resurrection of Christ, he went into the NEW HEAVEN in his glorified body.

 

[Absolutely]

In Matthew 13, Jesus gives TWO parables, both of which carry the same message: the parable of the weeds (24-30, 36-43), and the parable of the net (47-52). That is nice--and indeed, it is probably why Jesus needed to illustrate His point with TWO word pictures, not one--because if the meaning you get is contained within both parables, then that is probably Jesus' intended meaning. But if it is only contained in one, then you are probably going off on an tangent somewhere.

The gist of the parables is something along the lines of, "The rain falls equally on the righteous and the wicked." But in the end, the angels will come and sort them all out. They will not be sorted now--but in the end they will be. The reason why they are not sorted now is because--in the first parable--you will accidentally pull up some wheat if you try and pull the weeds now. In the second parable, if you try and throw out the bad fish while they are still in the net, you will end up ripping the net and lose some of the good fish.

These parables were told 2,000 years ago, so even if the sorting happened over the span of 7 years, that is all the end of the age to them. All this talk about resurrections, or something happening first is going off on a tangent, and not inherent to both parables. The only possible reference to tribulation would be that the good and the bad both have to share the same soil, the same net--and one can reasonably infer that that will have ramifications for how this life is going to look like. But that has nothing to do with a 7-year Tribulation at the end--that's the tribulation we have always faced for all time. Believers have always shared the same soil with the non-believing. If anything at all, it weakly suggests post-trib, because pre-trib suggests that believers and nonbelievers will NOT share the same soil for a period of 7 years.

You guys omit our verses.
You just omitted our verses to come to that conclusion

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The post-trib view is that that the rapture occurs at the second coming of Christ because [...] The second coming is also when post-trib believe the great white throne judgement of sheep and goats occurs either simaltaneously or shortly thereafter.

If I'm not mistaken, it seems you are confusing what "POST-tribbers" believe about "the Sheep and goat judgment" and the "GWTj" with that of which "POST-MILLENNIALISTS" and "AMILLENNIALISTS" believe about these [as being the same judgment]. I don't think "POST-tribbers" view it the same way those other viewpoints do, in that way, as you are suggesting. I could be wrong, but that's generally how I understand these various "viewpoints".

Any post-tribbers out there that could confirm or deny that post-tribbers [as a whole] view it in such a way?

Sometime people say "post-TRIB" when what they've meant to say is "post-MILLENNIAL"... could this be what might be doing? I can't be sure...

 

[acts5_29]

You guys omit our verses.
You just omitted our verses to come to that conclusion

There is a LOT of chatter on this thread, so it's easy to miss stuff. I don't know which verses you are referring to, but I was referring to the entirety of Matthew 13.

 

[acts5_29]

If I'm not mistaken, it seems you are confusing what "POST-tribbers" believe about "the Sheep and goat judgment" and the "GWTj" with that of which "POST-MILLENNIALISTS" and "AMILLENNIALISTS" believe about these [as being the same judgment]. I don't think "POST-tribbers" view it the same way those other viewpoints do, in that way, as you are suggesting. I could be wrong, but that's generally how I understand these various "viewpoints".

Any post-tribbers out there that could confirm or deny that post-tribbers [as a whole] view it in such a way?

Sometime people say "post-TRIB" when what they've meant to say is "post-MILLENNIAL"... could this be what might be doing? I can't be sure...

I believe post-millennial actually leans a-trib. Whereas amillennial believes we are presently living in the millennium, post-millennial believes we are presently living in the Tribulation. Then, when the entire world is reached with the Gospel, Christ comes. It's actually the most optimistic of all the eschatological views. Where post-trib is probably the most pessimistic.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Yeah, so I'm saying that (I believe) the POST-Mills and the A-MILLS are among those who EQUATE "the Sheep & goat judgment" with the "Great White Throne judgment," as though they were the SAME judgment... but that POST-TRIBBERS do not view it that way, as far as I recall.

"Runningman" was suggesting that they do. I'm thinking that likely is not the case, from what I remember of their [post-tribbers'] view ON THAT POINT.

 

[Truth7t7]

No no no. The end of the age. AGE.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/24-3.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/165.htm
Usage: an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity.

You need a new interpretation for every step of your false belief system.

Bend, Twist, and Tear Gods words to fit "Your False Belief"

It's not the Last Trump

It's Not The Last Day

It's Not The End Of The World

 

[Absolutely]

This is a continuation of my post 621 I had some gliche with my computer. I wonder who arranged that!!!

What I wanted to say is the trumpet blown at the second coming is I believe the seventh mentioned in Revelation. It is literally
the last trump both in Revelation and the bible as a whole.

The wrath of God takes place at the second coming. In the Bible there are two main groups of people mentioned. The Israelites/Jews
and the Church. In Dispensationalism the whole 70th week is seen as the tribulation/wrath of God so to avoid the church going through the supposed wrath a Pre Trib rapture is created. This solves the wrath problem. But it creates another one. Who are the people who come out of the tribulation who cannot be numbered? Their answer is to create a kind of second class Christian known the tribulation saint. These people missed the boat the first time around so the only way they can make it is to be killed by antichrist.
No wedding cake for them!

The truth as I see it is this second class group are in fact the Church still on earth waiting for the second coming and being persecuted
by the wrath of Satan the antichrist and the false prophet. The persecution will intensify over a period of time but will come to a head when the Antichrist is revealed and claims himself to be God. This present time could the rumbling preparation for his appearence and empire. I wouldnt swear to it or put a date on it but the thing for certain is that the world cant go on as it is forever and every year that goes by gets worst both in nature and in every avenue of human activity. Remember the Scout Motto 'Be Prepared'

Jesus created it
Tell it to him.

You remove it, ignore it,and base your deal on omission.

Your deal without fail DEPENDS ON OMISSION.

HANDS DOWN DEPENDS ON IT.

 

[Absolutely]

There is a LOT of chatter on this thread, so it's easy to miss stuff. I don't know which verses you are referring to, but I was referring to the entirety of Matthew 13.

If you did include our verses,what would the outcome be?

Wonder of wonders....what would you guys believe if you included our verses.

You guys never have.

 

[Truth7t7]

You guys omit our verses.
You just omitted our verses to come to that conclusion

Is that like the "Last Day" don't mean "Last Day"

"End of the world", don't mean "End of the world"

"Last Trump" Don't mean "Last Trump"

 

[KJV1611]

Is that like the "Last Day" don't mean "Last Day"

"End of the world", don't mean "End of the world"

"Last Trump" Don't mean "Last Trump"

Last Day means the last day Jesus spent in hell aka the THIRD DAY.
The end of world comes when the FLESH is CRUCIFIED. When you are born you are OF THE WORLD, when you get saved, you're no longer in the world, the world ended for you but you are still IN the world.

Think about this, when the Old Testament saints died, they went to the OLD HEAVEN, Abraham's bosom. Then when they were raised with Christ, they went to the NEW HEAVEN with Christ. So apply that to "the end of the word", because the end of the world happened when the NEW HEAVEN and the NEW EARTH were brought in.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

Other than he did not die and was translated into a glorious body and brought to heaven. Like the Scripture says in two places.

Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Did Enoch not sin?

If Enoch did sin then Enoch did not pay the wages for sin!

 

[Nehemiah6]

If Enoch did sin then Enoch did not pay the wages for sin!

Enoch was justified by grace through faith, after which he walked with God, and was then translated to Heaven -- God's Heaven. The Bible clearly says the he did not "see" or experience death. That is how it will also be for the saints who are raptured. They will not experience death.

 

[cv5]

Romans 6:23
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Did Enoch not sin?

If Enoch did sin then Enoch did not pay the wages for sin!

Since God is not constrained by time so called, we can safely assume that Enoch was saved by the future sacrifice of Christ.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

Since God is not constrained by time so called, we can safely assume that Enoch was saved by the future sacrifice of Christ.

Yes, of course, but this does not address what I wrote.

You here are saying Enoch needed the sacrifice of Christ to enter heaven.

So then yes, Enoch was a sinner. And the wages for sin is death. So Enoch died, he died the 1st death.

What Enoch did not experience was the 2nd death.