Baptism is necessary for Salvation!!!!!
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L
I think the ICC teaches you must be baptized in their church to be saved, am I correct?
I believe baptism is very important but I don't think it's necessary for salvation. I know the thief was not baptized, period, so it is possible for God to save a person that wasn't baptized. I don't think we should make extra rules, like the thief was exempted because he was on the cross, and people that aren't on the cross need to be baptized or else. That's no where in the bible.
There are different views regarding baptism and different interpretations of the bible. I choose to believe in faith alone because it makes more sense. Christ's grace and love compelled me to repentance. He set me free, I didn't set myself free, it's not possible. If we could do it on our own, He wouldn't have had to die for us. It's not Christ's sacrifice plus our works... our works are filthy, filthy rags. Our works are nothing. Jesus in His perfection is the only one able to redeem us past, present, and future. Paul said it best, here you have a man high in rank and kept the law perfectly, yet:
"If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless. But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—" Philippians 3:4-9
I hope you don't think I am judging you, 'cause I'm not. I respect you, CB, I just have some concerns about the ICC.
I believe baptism is very important but I don't think it's necessary for salvation. I know the thief was not baptized, period, so it is possible for God to save a person that wasn't baptized. I don't think we should make extra rules, like the thief was exempted because he was on the cross, and people that aren't on the cross need to be baptized or else. That's no where in the bible.
There are different views regarding baptism and different interpretations of the bible. I choose to believe in faith alone because it makes more sense. Christ's grace and love compelled me to repentance. He set me free, I didn't set myself free, it's not possible. If we could do it on our own, He wouldn't have had to die for us. It's not Christ's sacrifice plus our works... our works are filthy, filthy rags. Our works are nothing. Jesus in His perfection is the only one able to redeem us past, present, and future. Paul said it best, here you have a man high in rank and kept the law perfectly, yet:
"If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless. But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—" Philippians 3:4-9
I hope you don't think I am judging you, 'cause I'm not. I respect you, CB, I just have some concerns about the ICC.
R
yes but if your tree/branches be without fruit..Jesus himself said he would cut those branches off that bear no fruit...john 15:5&6.. without holiness no man shall see God, hebrews 12:14...so the obe who truly lives in grace also obeys.. deuteronomy 30:19..you must choose..no easy believism..thats not works, thats true genuine faith...phillipians 2:12...
First the thief on the cross was saved by Jesus under the old law. Jesus said those saving words to him while He was still alive. The old law was done away with when Jesus died on the cross (Col 2:14),(Eph 2:13-16), (Heb 9:15-17). Second if you choose to believe in faith alone your belief of your salvation does not come from what the bible teaches. The only time faith alone is mentioned in the scriptures is (James 2:24) A man is justified by works and NOT faith alone. Any honest seeking heart will come to the teachings of the bible with great fear and reverance and follow what the bible teaches in order to be saved we must:
Hear and Obey: “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life” (John 5:24); “Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice” (John 18:37). “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and acts upon them, may be compared to a wise man” (Matthew 7:24).
Believe: “I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM, you shall die in your sins” (John 8:24).
Repent: “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matthew 4:17); “I tell you, no, but, unless you repent, you will all likewise perish” (Luke 13:3, 5).
Confess: “Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven” (Matthew 10:32, 33).
Be Baptized: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God” (John 3:5); “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teaching them to observe all that I commanded you” (Matthew 28:19, 20); “He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved” (Mark 16:16). (Acts 22:16)
Remain Faithful: “Be Faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life” (Revelation 2:10). “God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth” (John 4:24).
Hear and Obey: “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life” (John 5:24); “Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice” (John 18:37). “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and acts upon them, may be compared to a wise man” (Matthew 7:24).
Believe: “I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM, you shall die in your sins” (John 8:24).
Repent: “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matthew 4:17); “I tell you, no, but, unless you repent, you will all likewise perish” (Luke 13:3, 5).
Confess: “Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven” (Matthew 10:32, 33).
Be Baptized: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God” (John 3:5); “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teaching them to observe all that I commanded you” (Matthew 28:19, 20); “He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved” (Mark 16:16). (Acts 22:16)
Remain Faithful: “Be Faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life” (Revelation 2:10). “God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth” (John 4:24).
R
church of christ is a denomination..theyre a breakaway from the baptists,or anabaptists I believe..i do not know why you should think it is not a denomination..its church of christ,not 'the' church of christ, granted I believe baptism and works are important, anyone who says otherwise is buying into this over emphasis of grace, which really is not grace..its once saved always saved 'God's got you' greasy grace which I like to call stupidity, not grace...
L
I don't quite agree with this.
Like I mentioned in my previous post, I understand people have different interpretations of the bible. I can come back and quote scriptures to you too.
As someone who has struggled with assurance of salvation and was in the ICC temporally, I've done my research, and I am set in my beliefs.
Like I mentioned in my previous post, I understand people have different interpretations of the bible. I can come back and quote scriptures to you too.
As someone who has struggled with assurance of salvation and was in the ICC temporally, I've done my research, and I am set in my beliefs.
E
why can't you understand your misinterpreting what was said.
Yes it was fitting for jesus to get baptised, why? John said this is how god would show the world jesus was the one who would "take away sin". water can never take away sin. Only blood can. and water can not place you into the blood of christ, only God can.
E
What does titus 3: 5 say? we are not saved by works of righteousness (such as being baptised in water) we have done, but by the WASHING (baptism) and renewing (new birth) of the Holy Spirit.
so, no, if we have not been washed or baptised by the spirit. we are still dead in our sin, and we can get immersed in water all we want, we will still be dead to Christ.
so, no, if we have not been washed or baptised by the spirit. we are still dead in our sin, and we can get immersed in water all we want, we will still be dead to Christ.
Christianbound, I would like to ask you this... How many people was saved by the preaching of PAUL? I would say thousands....
How many of them were baptized, in water, by Paul? Maybe six. Why? Because CHRIST did not send Paul to baptize with water... With what did Paul baptize, and how many did he baptize with the Holy Spirit... Thousands! Were they EVER baptized with water? NO! When Peter preached to Cornelius and his people, while he was busy preaching the Holy Ghost FELL on them, and this happened without them being baptized in water. Do you think they should now be baptized in water? Well the Jews thought they should and they did baptize them in water.
To baptize someone in water AFTER he was baptized with Holy Spirit, is like giving a person 5 cents after he won 10Billion dollars. Makes NO sence. Just do a bit more of a study on THE ONE BAPTISM God approves of! Don't you think Jesus would have baptized people with water if it was neccesary for salvation? How many people did Jesus baptize with water... NOT ONE! And how many did He baptize with Holy Spirit.... ALL WHO WILL ENTER INTO GOD'S KINGDOM.... Water baptism can or cannot be part of a person's salvation, It is not wrong to baptize in water, but it is also not wrong to drivw a car to church! It does NOTHING to the outcome of your destiny... MANY people that were baptized in water will end up in hell, and MANY that were not baptized in water will end up in heaven....
Water is NOT the factor that determines outcome.... HOLY SPIRIT IS!
So you also admits there are two or even more baptisms, which one is the ONE GOD DOES... Spirit! So that is the only Baptism Jesus will EVER REFER too!
How many of them were baptized, in water, by Paul? Maybe six. Why? Because CHRIST did not send Paul to baptize with water... With what did Paul baptize, and how many did he baptize with the Holy Spirit... Thousands! Were they EVER baptized with water? NO! When Peter preached to Cornelius and his people, while he was busy preaching the Holy Ghost FELL on them, and this happened without them being baptized in water. Do you think they should now be baptized in water? Well the Jews thought they should and they did baptize them in water.
To baptize someone in water AFTER he was baptized with Holy Spirit, is like giving a person 5 cents after he won 10Billion dollars. Makes NO sence. Just do a bit more of a study on THE ONE BAPTISM God approves of! Don't you think Jesus would have baptized people with water if it was neccesary for salvation? How many people did Jesus baptize with water... NOT ONE! And how many did He baptize with Holy Spirit.... ALL WHO WILL ENTER INTO GOD'S KINGDOM.... Water baptism can or cannot be part of a person's salvation, It is not wrong to baptize in water, but it is also not wrong to drivw a car to church! It does NOTHING to the outcome of your destiny... MANY people that were baptized in water will end up in hell, and MANY that were not baptized in water will end up in heaven....
Water is NOT the factor that determines outcome.... HOLY SPIRIT IS!
So you also admits there are two or even more baptisms, which one is the ONE GOD DOES... Spirit! So that is the only Baptism Jesus will EVER REFER too!
Christianbound, Thank you for the time you spend talking to me. May I share the BAPTISM in the Name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost with you... I have put it out in another threat so I will just Copy and paste it here. This is how I know Jesus wants us to be baptized, and water has nothing to do with it.
The water baptism has done so much damage to the people, and why? Because everyone has his or her own take on things. There is ONE baptism that unites people to ONE Spirit and ONE Father, and ONE church.... The Baptism of the Holy Spirit, the Word of God.
If we all agree on the Word of God, we are ALL baptized with the ONE HOLY SPIRIT that inspired that WORD!
Please take your time and try to understand what I saw in the Word of God about the great command of Jesus and how it is accomplished... I wrote this to OFM, as he asked pretty much the same you asked about the Baptism....
OFM, IF I MAY... I will ONLY use Bible, and if this does not help, I do not know what will..... What is the NAME of ALL THREE parts of God.... Well here it is... Look at what Jesus commands His disciples to do... Three things A to C... A. Baptize in THE NAME (One Name) Of 1. The Father..YHWH... 2. The Son..YESHUAH HA MESHIACH... And the 3. Holy Ghost... Christ Jesus... B. Make disciples.... and C. Teach them to observe all I commanded you.
Now! When we look at Revelation 19:13... God says this.... And he (Father) was clothed with a vesture (Holy Ghost) dipped in blood (The Son Jesus) : and his name is called The Word of God.
But what is those three NAMES ALL IN ONE... THE WORD OF GOD...
Now look at those three commands again... A. Baptize them.... how do we baptize people in the NAME... we use The Word of GOD... .... B. Teach the nations, make disciples.... How do we do that... We use the Word of GOD!... .... C. Teach them to observe all I commanded you... What did Jesus command.... The Word of GOD!
Jesus said to the Father... SANCTIFY THEM IN YOUR TRUTH... YOUR WORD IS THE TRUTH.... But Jesus said HE WAS the Truth, And we know He was the Word.... SO!!! Baptize, teach and make disciples are ALL THE SAME COMMAND.... USE GOD'S WORD!
What did I just do, but to baptize you all with these teachings? And I ONLY used God's Word, so I am doing what Jesus commanded. MAy the Lord baptize you with a revelation on this! Amen!
The water baptism has done so much damage to the people, and why? Because everyone has his or her own take on things. There is ONE baptism that unites people to ONE Spirit and ONE Father, and ONE church.... The Baptism of the Holy Spirit, the Word of God.
If we all agree on the Word of God, we are ALL baptized with the ONE HOLY SPIRIT that inspired that WORD!
Please take your time and try to understand what I saw in the Word of God about the great command of Jesus and how it is accomplished... I wrote this to OFM, as he asked pretty much the same you asked about the Baptism....
OFM, IF I MAY... I will ONLY use Bible, and if this does not help, I do not know what will..... What is the NAME of ALL THREE parts of God.... Well here it is... Look at what Jesus commands His disciples to do... Three things A to C... A. Baptize in THE NAME (One Name) Of 1. The Father..YHWH... 2. The Son..YESHUAH HA MESHIACH... And the 3. Holy Ghost... Christ Jesus... B. Make disciples.... and C. Teach them to observe all I commanded you.
Now! When we look at Revelation 19:13... God says this.... And he (Father) was clothed with a vesture (Holy Ghost) dipped in blood (The Son Jesus) : and his name is called The Word of God.
But what is those three NAMES ALL IN ONE... THE WORD OF GOD...
Now look at those three commands again... A. Baptize them.... how do we baptize people in the NAME... we use The Word of GOD... .... B. Teach the nations, make disciples.... How do we do that... We use the Word of GOD!... .... C. Teach them to observe all I commanded you... What did Jesus command.... The Word of GOD!
Jesus said to the Father... SANCTIFY THEM IN YOUR TRUTH... YOUR WORD IS THE TRUTH.... But Jesus said HE WAS the Truth, And we know He was the Word.... SO!!! Baptize, teach and make disciples are ALL THE SAME COMMAND.... USE GOD'S WORD!
What did I just do, but to baptize you all with these teachings? And I ONLY used God's Word, so I am doing what Jesus commanded. MAy the Lord baptize you with a revelation on this! Amen!
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