baptism problem

Tru2JHWH · Jul 22, 2012

First of all I would like to say that it does matter what the word "baptism" stands for especially in the Hebrew and Greek language because some of the words used in their language can't be fully understood/comprehended as well in our English language. That's the #1 reason all these denominations (man-made churches) have different types of baptisms because of traditions of men and lack of study....2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God,.....And reading is not the same as studying....Acts 17:10-11 Talks about the brethren who were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Its authorized by Jesus Christ to be baptized for the remission of our sins Matthew 28:18-19 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Belief + Baptism = Salvation Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. God commands baptism Acts 10:47-48 (Peter is talking) Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
These scriptures should be some use to you also: WHO should be baptized? Anyone who have heard the word: Romans 10:17 Anyone who will receive the Word: Acts 2:41 Those who believes in Christ: Mark 16: 15-16 Those convicted of their sins: Acts 2:37 Not babies, unbelievers (there is an action that must be done) Mark 16:16 Those willing to repent: Acts 2:38

If people 2,000 years ago had to be baptized for the remission of their sins in order to join the church Christ started then it is for our soul's sake that we do the same in order to be saved and have eternal life.

Also someone made the comment that our God will be understanding about a person not obeying his commandments. These are some scriptures saying otherwise: 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 When the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 2 Thessalonians 2: 10-12 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believe not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

pickles · Jul 23, 2012

xino said:

Have you been baptised?
a simple question.

I found out that Christiening (sprinkling water on an infant as baptism) means nothing and is not even in the bible.
It is just another human rule tradition.

Ever since I found out, I've been anxious to get baptised, now the problem is, many churches around me are turning baptism into what they want.

Originally when you repent, you get baptised straight away however churches are using baptism as an opportunity to trap people as members of their church.
This is what we call Church Denomination, meaning getting baptised with a church means you are a member of the church. Another way of saying Baptism by Membership.
To some people, this is a good thing but to others is stupid and just a trap.
Why should one be bounded by 1 church? what if that person wants to visit another church?

I want to get baptised at a usual church I started going to, they told me I must go through a training. What training!???
A friend of mine who is knowledgeable in the bible said he can find out if I can get baptised at his church, now him too is telling me his church needs to get money to perform baptism because they need to rent a pool and I need to be taught a few things before being baptised.
Now the new church I just went today, I asked the pastor if I could get baptised ASAP, he said I will have to wait till September to be baptised. Because it's much like a group baptism.

This is completely retarded and atrocious! What if Jesus comes tomorrow eh? and I'm still bloody waiting to be baptised.

All these churches and their rules!
It is not a big deal to get baptised or hard. All you need is a bathtub, water and dip the person inside. Why all the exaggeration and commotions? Why all the ceremonials man? these things are not even in the bible (unless someone can point them out to me here)

so have you been baptised recently? (not as an infant)
how was the baptism?
and how does your church baptise people?

You do not have to have a church baptise you.
Yopu can simply have another christian friend baptise you in any body of water available.
For it is the act of faith that matters, not the actors.

God bless
pickles

Laodicea · Jul 23, 2012

When Paul was converted God directed him to the church. He was baptized by the church, became part of the church, worked with the church and was sent out by the church. He did not work independent of the church. God is a God of order, God's church is not to be disorganized with people doing whatever they want.

Matthew 28:19
(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Jesus taught to teach then to baptize

psychomom · Jul 23, 2012

Hi, Xino--you sick of reading all this yet?

Yet you've gotten some profound answers!
I just wanted to say that though I think it's not right to demand you join a fellowship to be baptized there,
(perhaps even wicked!)
I do know that many churches like to have you go through some sort of training for two reasons:
1. so the one doing the baptizing knows your heart (as well as any man can) toward the Lord, that you understand salvation and are saved
2. so you can learn what the scriptures say regarding baptism and why it is you are doing it.

And yes! Any other believer can baptize you in whatever body of water is available. (I don't mean to open up a can of worms here, but I rather think it should be a brother, if for no reason than strength...) But, speaking as one who's watched a lot of baptisms, it's really such a blessing to the Family who are there to see it.

It's kinda like being at a wedding with your spouse...that lovely reminder. ♥

Sorry, my friend, I don't mean to offer you confusion.

I merely hope to offer a bit of perspective. Now, go and do what the Lord tells you to do, and never mind me.
~ellie

jkalyna · Jul 23, 2012

WHY DO I ALWAYS FIND SOMETHING JOYFULL ABOUT SOME POSTS. LOL YOUR FUNNY GOD BLESS YOU . MIGHT BE SOME ARE NOT CONFESSING, FEAR OF WATER.

xino · Jul 23, 2012

@Tru2JHWH
yea it does matter but not to the point that one needs to prove another wrong.
Baptism meaning is in the bible as there are two types.
Baptism of repentance which John did, and Jesus's baptism of water+holy spirit
Any other form of Baptism not in the bible is man made.

@Pickles
yes I'll try and get someone to baptise me instead of going to a church.

@Laodicea
Yes Paul was baptised and became a member of the church.
but read this note from the bible:
"1 Corinthians 12:12-26
12 The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body-whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free-and we were all given the one Spirit to drink."
The body is 1 unit, what is the body? the body is the church. Even though there are many body parts- arms, legs, eyes etc, they all form 1 body aka 1 church aka one Christ.
We are all baptised by 1 Holy Spirit therefore we are all 1!
It makes all of us 1 family in one body.
But because we have many churches, it now feels like a brother baptised with the same Spirit as you is from another family. Or a sister baptised with same spirit is from another family because she attends a different church.
If we can have 100 churches in a town, all the churches MUST be the same kind of Church. NOT Church of Methodist, Church of Catholic or Penetcostal Church.
Point proven that man made law once again controls how Church functions.
[+]One body, one Spirit, one family, one church, one Christ[+]

And you misunderstood Matthew 28:19. Jesus was saying, go and make disciples, by FIRST baptising them in the names and then teaching them.
This was the same thing I was telling my church, the fact was the guy contradicted himself saying that quote was in 'order' So if it's in order, then they are doing it wrong the other way round first teaching and then baptising.

Here's my parable.
"Go make Bus drivers of all nations, by giving them provisional license under my company name, and teaching them how to drive,"
Does this make sense?
Before you become a driver, what process do you go through first? Driving Lessons of course, but before that, comes Provisional License to grant you ability to test drive your car or instructor's car.

Looking back at Matthew quote, how does one becomes a Disciple? by being baptised indeed, so why would Jesus say it the other way round?
Why would he say Go and make disciples by teaching them, then baptising them and then teaching them?

Jesus's clear instructions were:
*go out and talk to people, introduce them to Christ.
*they confess and want to be forgiven
*then you baptize them after they repented in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit
*then you teach them Jesus commands and teachings

@Pyschomom
nah the answers are fine.
It is a clear instruction from Lord Jesus that we should be Baptised, not being baptised is being disobedience to Jesus words. There is nothing to learn about reason why we are being baptised, nothing but Church doctrines to make people stay in their church as a member. Being baptised is to receive the Holy Spirit and the ticket to enter Kingdom of God.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 23, 2012

xino said:

1. Jesus did not baptize with water. nor would he ever do such. He baptizes with the HS,. We should not try to make Jesus baptism be of water.
2. there are two types of baptism (actually more) in Scripture which deal with Christians. The physical baptism of water, and the spiritual baptism of the HS, they are not the same, nore do they occure at the same time.

Red33 · Jul 23, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

The problem is Baptism has become to the church what Circumcision was to the Jews. They have taken a thing which God used to shadow what God does to us spiritually, and turned it into a religious ceremony which has lost its original meaning.

In the NT, People were baptized IMMEDIATELY without any training, Yet as a Jew would say you must be circumcised before you can "Join Gods people", Many churches will say you must be baptized before you can "join the church" They even go as far as saying you can't be saved< Just like the jews did" unless you participate in this symbolic ceremony, which God did command, in both cases, but not as a prerequisite for salvation. It is the HS who circumcises us, by baptizing us into Christ. We need to worry that we have recieved the circumcision/baptism done by the hands of God before we worry about the ones done by the hands of men.

What is the original meaning of water baptism, who commanded it and for what reason is it commanded?

xino · Jul 23, 2012

John 4:1
4 Therefore when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John

John 3:22
Then Jesus and his disciples left Jerusalem and went into the Judean countryside. Jesus spent some time with them there, baptizing people.
Please stop using your opinion and start using scriptures to prove a point. Because many who come here and read your post will be deceived.

John 3
5 Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born from above.’

Please provide quotes, if not all your words are nothing more than opinion.

There are only two types of Baptism in the bible, as I said above
John's Baptism which is to make repentance
and Jesus Baptism which is to be born of Holy Spirit in the water IN THE name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
The reason why in his last commission he told us to baptise in the names is because he is ascending to Heaven, also the keys to the baptism has been given to Peter to unlock. If Jesus is still around now, we wouldn't need to baptise in the names.

Acts 19:4
Paul said, "John's baptism called for repentance from sin. But John himself told the people to believe in the one who would come later, meaning Jesus."

Mark 1:4 And so John came, baptizing in the desert region and preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

The Holy Spirit that came upon those people in early chapters of Acts WAS NOT Baptism. It was the first pact of Peter gaining the keys to Kingdom of God as Jesus provided him the keys to Kingdom of Heaven/God.
-Baptism means immersion inside water.-

The only time Jesus did not Baptise was in
John 4:2 (though Jesus himself didn't baptize them--his disciples did).
But he didn't baptise one time for various reasons, but read my above scriptures, Jesus did baptise.

Like i said Baptism meaning should not be important, all answers are in the bible, only people who complicate things will make a big deal out of it.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 23, 2012

Red33 said:

1. Origional meaning? We would have to go to the OT, Although it was not called baptize then. Since Baptize was not an english or Hebrew word. The first time it was done was by a man named moses, In the river Jordon, the first men to be baptized would be Arron and his sons. It was commanded that all PRIESTS be washed (baptized) as they were concecrated as priests.
2. In the NT, This "washing" was being changed. First by John, and was available to all people, not just priests. God was changing the way he was going to work with mankind. John was preaching a new kingdom, or a new way, And he came baptizing people who had repented and come to God (we know this because he refused to baptize anyone who had not shown fruits of repentnance)
3. When John baptized Jesus, (as was the case with Arron the first high priest) it was done in front of the people, to prove he was set apart by God to be the one who mediated between God and man, Although Jesus is a better high priest, John still said, I was sent baptising, Why? The one whome I babptise and see the spirit descend as a dove immediately after, this is the one who will take away sin.
4. John spoke of Jesus, and how he would baptize. HS and fire. No mention of water.
5. Jesus said to go and make disciples. then baptise them, For we ar emade priests to God, no longer is the levitical priesthood in application, but all men who come to God are made priests unto him., The same "washing" is performed, which shows to the world, I have made this man mine.

in no case was baotism a requirement for salvation. To make the Baptism of the HS (which does save) dependnant on man being baptised by another man is blasphemy of the worst kind.

baptism is a teaching tool. It teaches the one saved what God did to them. And it teaches the unsaved what God can do to them, Based on the death of Christ, As Peter said, it is an answer of a good consciousness towards God. God commanded it, we should obey. But it will not cleans you any more than taking a bath will, If you have not been baptized by the spirit. you are still dead in your sin.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 23, 2012

xino said:

Typical of people who do not want to see truth. They cut a passage out to try to make themselves appear right, and leave out the part of the passage which would go against what they believe.
John 4: 1-2 Therefore when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John 2 (although Jesus Himself was not baptizing, but His disciples were),

The one deceiving, or ignorant or whatever is you my friend. jesus never baptized anyone, His disciples did all the baptizing.

This has nothign to do with baptizing.. When nicodemus asked how this could be, Jesus did not say anythign about being baptized in water, He said clearly. That which is born of flesh (water) (first birth) is flesh, That which is born of Spirit (spirit) (new birth) is spirit. And he explained how it would be done, That he was sent to the world, that whoever believes in him will never die, but have eternal life (born of the spirit)

Your the one twisting scripture my friend. Nothing in john 3 has a thing to do with baptism.

John said, He who comes after me is mightier than I, he will baptize with the HS and fire., His winnowing fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly clean out the threshing floor. The wheat he will place in the barn (baptism of the HS) but the chaff he will burn with a fire that shall never be quenched (Baptism of Fire) Which is hellfire.

No mention of water, because there will be no water.

Jesus said, You will be baptised with the HS not many days from now. No water was involved. In acts 10. Peter also witness this baptism of the HS, before anyone was even baptised in water.

There are 4 types right there.

Baptism of Jon
Baptism of the apostles, which can be done by any believer in Christ
Baptism of the HS
baptism in fire ( A future baptism which has not been done yet.

The word for their (eis) can men either because of, in reference to, or in order to obtain. Your assuming it means in order to obtain, Although this is not the case. Because if it was, anyone baptized in water would be forgiven even if they recieved John's baptism not even knowing of Christ. Second. John refused to baptize people he knew did not already revcieve remmision of sin.

1. It was baptism of the HS. Jesus declared it was. Sorry if I believe Jesus and not you.
2. Baptism of the HS precedes the annointing of the spirit. The HS can not ENTER someone and give them gifts if they are not yet cleansed by the baptism of the HS.
3. Baptism in the greek NEVER meant immersion in water. This is mans destroying of a word to make their faulty belief system come true. Baptism is a verb, it means to immerse, place into or place in union with.

Baptism in water means to immerse in water
Baptism in the body means to fully immerse in the body of Christ (1 cor 12) with no water involved
Baptism in the death and burial means full immersion in the death and burial of Christ. No water involved, the death and burial are the means and subject of what we are placed (baptized into)

You need to study more and stop listening to tradition and men, they are leading you astray!

Who is complicating it?

Baptize is a verb which means to immerse.

Look at language and structure of the sentance.

romans 6:

And do you not know that you were baptized (verb, to immerse or place into) into the Death (subject of the verb, the object to wich we were baptized into)

The problem is, satan some how got men to transliterate, and not translate a greek word (baptizo) and this the confusion and false teaching of baptismal regeneraqtion which is found no where in scripture.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, He saved us by the WASHING (Baptism) and RENEWAL (new birth) OF THE HS ( The Holy SPirit did the acts of baptism and making one alive in Christ. Not some pastor in some church by immersing us in water (a work of righteousness which we can do)

xino · Jul 23, 2012

@eternally-gratefull
this will be my last post to you, I am not here to argue!

Yes I admit I didn't post the full sentence of John 4:12. But at least I'm posting scriptures, what are you doing? I do remember some words and quote so I use Google to search for them. I don't mean to take the words out of context. Bible.cc doesn't post the full sentence.
But funny how you missed out my John 3:22

I think you don't understand. Jesus was talking about being born again. What is born again?
when you are being baptised in water, that is being born again. And he said water+spirit, which is what happens when you get baptised.

SO much contradiction!
Jesus said what is born of flesh is flesh and of spirit is spirit. And then you said born of flesh (water) (first birth) is flesh. Please read Romans. Romans mentions a lot about flesh and flesh is just our body. Flesh is our physical self that bleeds, gets cold or hot. So how can your own flesh (water) be valid?
Being born of spirit can only be done under water.
please read:
And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."[Acts 2:38]
As you see, we receive the gift of the Holy spirit when we are baptised.

Also this comment from you:

You said I'm the one twisting the bible.
""John 5:24="I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.""
Meaning as we were slaved to our sins, once we believe in him, confess and repent. We have passed from being dead to sin to life.

""John 3:16="For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.""
Perishing meaning destruction, so everyone who believes in him and follows him will have eternal life.

""John 11:25=Jesus told her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Anyone who believes in me will live, even after dying.""
what I was saying earlier.

isn't that what I just said? that John's baptism is of repentance and Jesus of the name?
you said so that John said Jesus will baptise in Holy Spirit, and didn't Jesus say in Matt 28:19 that we should baptise in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit?
Jesus gives out his holy spirit for free when we are immersed in water.

Like I said before, Peter's baptism was different, it was to complete the pact of the keys to Kingdom of God.
Please answer me this, HAVE you seen anyone in today's world or from the bible that had Peter's baptism again? whereas the holy spirit rest upon a person and we see fire tongue on their forehead.

So who in the world practises Baptism of Holy Spirit and how can it be done?
Baptism in fire? please elaborate on this and provide scriptures.

Yes that was the case in John's case/time. But Jesus is the only one who can forgive our sins therefore John's baptism is no longer needed. Jesus was given authority to forgiven, ressurect and heal people on Earth.

Indulging in the Old Testament is what makes you flawed! You need to look at new testament because it introduces the new covenant.
You so contradict yourself in bullet point 2. You say Holy Spirit cannot enter someone and give gifts unless they are baptised in the Holy Spirit. Sorry doesn't make sense and how does one get baptised by Holy Spirit if the Holy Spirit cannot enter then?
And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."[Acts 2:38]
so... man is destroying the meaning of baptism, when the explanation was said in New Testament?
ok so I guess we should all keep killing animals as sacrifice to God right?
You need to STOP dwelling in the Old Testament, old is old. New Testament relates to our modern world, therefore changing everything that was once old to new.

OK so now Satan has twisted the worlds in the bible? you are out of the line, stop reading old testament.
Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will never disappear.
People are now going as far as saying King James Bible is the true bible. which is ridiculous

And what did Lord Jesus meant by "baptising them in name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit?"

JaumeJ · Jul 23, 2012

Hello Xino,

You have probably had what I have to add in this thread, but here I go anyway. When we receive the Holy Spirit, we are born again, and I am certain you have known this for some time. When we are Baptized it is as if we are "buried," that is our sinful self, and we come up out of the water anew, like being born again also. In this regard both Baptisms are rebirth. All I really know is, once we accept our Savior, and our sins are forgiven, we are new, and our old self becomes old. This is all better explained in the Word, and you definitely already know this. So being Baptized in water is down with the old, up with the new. You are going to be just fine, because you already are. God bless you and hold you near forever, amen..............

damombomb · Jul 23, 2012

And what did Lord Jesus meant by "baptising them in name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit?"
Jesus is the only name we can be saved!!!
Acts 4:12
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Laodicea · Jul 23, 2012

There are 2 baptisms
Mark 1:8
(8) I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Water baptism is the baptism of repentance
[FONT=&quot]Mark 1:4[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
(4) John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]baptism[/FONT][FONT=&quot] of repentance[/FONT][FONT=&quot] for the remission of sins.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jesus was first baptized with water then He prayed and was baptized with the Holy Spirit
[/FONT]
Luke 3:21-22
(21) Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
(22) And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Jesus was first baptized then He prayed then He began His ministry. The apostles were the same.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 23, 2012

xino said:

I am not here to argue either, But since this IS a salvic issue. I will continue to refute your false teaching, If you want to work to EARN your salvation. And not recieve it by GRACE by Calling on the name of the Lord, And YOU WILL BE SAVED. than that is your problem.

John 3: 22 does not prove Jesus baptized anyone. Paul stated he did not baptize either. Your just Assuming something. The first passage tells us that Jesus did not baptize anyone, He had his disciples do it. He did not all of a sudden start baptizing himselfr. Funny how you missed what John said. John said he would baptise with the HS, Not water. That was John and the disciples jobs.

Sorry. Being born again means he who is dead in tresspasses and sin is MADE ALIVE in Christ.

Jesus was telling nicodemus he had to be born again. What does this mean? How can one be born again. Enter his mothers womb again? This is what was said right. That was the first birth. Or water. The second birth is not physical. It is spiritual in nature. Or made spiritually alive in Christ.

It is false to say this happens only when we are immersed in water for so many reasons.

I already showed titus 3. it is done by the spirit. Galations Paul tells us our spiritual circumcision is performed by the hands of GOD. Not man. It is done by being baptized by the one who raised Chrsit from the dead. or the Holy Spirit. NOT MAN.

You evidently have never witnessed a physical birth. A fetus is entombed in water up until the time of birth, then the water breaks, and the baby is born. It is born out of water. Thus the term water.

Again look at sequence.

must be born of water and spirit.

then he explains. Water is flesh, and spirit is spirit. the flesh and spirit explained what the water and spirit was.

Thats funny, The Holy Spirit is called water. Read John 4. Where jesus offers spiritual water, but refers to the Holy Spirit. In Titus, We are told the HS washes us. and rebirths us through this washing, why do you want to place this washing in the hands of man and not the hands of God?

Flesh can mean sin yes. but it can also mean physical body. Jesus was talking about two births. how many births did you go throuigh? We are all born out of water, or in the flesh. But not all will be born of the spirit.

Greek does not allow this faulty interpretation. You should study this more.

Peter tells everyone to repent, and whoever repents will recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit (all second person plural)

Then he told those who had recieved remission of sin (based on this repentnace) to be baptised. (all second person singular)

To many passages in scripture tell us we are saved by faith alone in the work of Christ alone, to make a gospel doctrine out of one verse, which is distorted and not interpreted as it should be is faulty.

No mention of baptism in ANY of these verses. These verses support what I said 100 % Lets add another.

Believe on the name of the Lord and YOU WILL BE SAVED.

John did say Jesus would baptise with the HS. I did not say it he did.

Make THEM disciples first. Then baptise them. Just as Peter did in acts 10

It is not free then. It takes you going to wherever you have to go to be immersed. and it takes the work of another sinner to baptise you. Thus your salvation is based on the work of two men, Your work, and his work.

I was saved where I sat the moment I called out on the name of the Lord in repentnace. At that moment my sins were washed by the baptism of the spirit. and I was regenerated by God the Holy SPirit. Then I went and did the work of being baptised in water.

Yeah I can excuse things away too. Many times people recieved the spirit before they were immersed in water. Peter recieved the keys the moment jesus gave them to him. It was called the gospel. it was based on the fact "you are jesus, the son of the living God, and in you we have eternal life" (see John 6 also)

As I said, Gifts of the spirit do not come from baptism. Baptism is cleansing. Gifts come from the annointing, or the act of the HS coming in someone. The gentile believers were baptised by the spirit, then annointed, which allowed them to use gifts.

So who in the world practises Baptism of Holy Spirit and how can it be done?
Baptism in fire? please elaborate on this and provide scriptures.

What does this have to do with the Baptism of the spirit? and relegating it it to men?

Again, you need to study and stop listening to men.

How does the HS wash? Rom 6, He baptises us into Christs death and burial. That just as he died and was buried, we died with him. He then baptises us into th ebody of Christ (1 cor 12) Again, I feel like a broken record. Titus 3 5. we were saved not by our own good deeds (water baptism is a good deed) but by the WASHING (baptism) and renewing (new birth) of the HS.

The HS does not have to enter a person to cleanse him, He just does it.

Your amazing. None of the OT works, which were ordained By God, helped one person get saved, they were saved by faith only. Now you want God, AFTER Christ said "IT IS FINISHED" to all of a sudden add a work to the gospel. and say WE HAVE to work, when THEY DID NOT?

lol.. wow you are fighting this arn't you?

To transliterate a word, you take the spelling of the word in one language (example Baptizo) and transliterate it into your own language (remove the "O" replace it with an "e" and you have the word baptize.

Since the word is not native to the english language, we should take the greek defenition of the word.

What did Jesus mean? He meant use the religious ceremony and baptize (not sprinkle or dip) those you have made disciples of me.

The point was making disciples. then baptize them.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 23, 2012

damombomb said:

Call out on the name of the lord and you will be saved.
He who believes has eternal life
Whoever believed has eternal life
Behold I stand at the door an knock. Whoever opens the door I will come in and dine with you
For by grace we HAVE been saved by FAITH, and NOT OF WORKS (Ie baptism in water) lest any man should boast.

I can go on and on of all the verses which tell us how to be saved, and do not mention the word baptism of any type.

eternally-gratefull · Jul 23, 2012

xino said:

I somehow missed this.

1. Baptism of the HS is done by God, How can we practice it? this makes no sense. it is a spiritual baptism.
2. Baptism in fire. what fire does scripture say will NEVER BE QUENCHED? It also says there will be weeping and nashing of teeth.

Everyone will be baptized by Christ, we need to make up our minds which one we want. The one through the HS where we are placed into the barn (Heaven) or the one where we are burned in the unquenchable fire?

xino · Jul 23, 2012

@JaumeJ
yes I knew about the things I said.
I need to be baptised by water, pity churches are making it difficult...lol
But everyone in the world are baptising by water, but who knows man.
Have you heard the story of the Salvation Army?
how a preacher in an army during the war was preaching to soldiers but because there was no water around for them to be baptised, he used the flag. So I really don't know, all is done by will of our Father.

@eternally-gratefull

I guess someone didn't read Romans 14.

Born of Water AND Spirit. How do you make pancake? Egg and flour
how do you make boiled egg? egg and hot water
The first birth is flesh! Flesh from the mother's womb, just because water is inside the mother doesn't mean that was our birth. The water keeps the fetus alive. Yes second is spiritual which is of water and spirit.
Every BODY in the world knows Baptism is of water+spirit, you are the only one opposing to this.

Please read Acts 8:26-39

eternally-gratefull · Jul 23, 2012

xino said:

Everyone knows that? I have been to churches all over my country. And NONE teach your works based Gospel. Maybe you need to get out and explore other beliefs and not just listen to what you are taught.

again, as I said. If you want to work to earn something God says is given freely and can not be earned. Feel free. Don't let me stop you.

However, be warned. God will not accept our works as payment for sin.

The penalty of sin is DEATH, it does not say the penalty of sin is death and baptism.

Only death thus can remove sin. This is called redemption. And our redemption was paid by the DEATH of Christ. Not the death of Christ plus us being immersed in water.

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