Baptism symbol only ?

PACEMAKER · Sep 13, 2014

newbirth, Apparently you mis understood my Question. you told me what devils believed.....
I wanted your answer to this Question
IF you Believe with All Your Heart that Jesus Christ died for All your Sins about 2000 years ago
on the old rugged Cross
Just What Sins does does your “water baptism” wash away..
Be Specific..

Have you ever sung the song " What can wash away my sins ??
Nothing but the Blood of Jesus AND "water baptism" ???

Have you heard of any songs about " the power of water baptism???

Please Explain Acts 3:19.. Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out,
that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,

newbirth · Sep 14, 2014

PACEMAKER said:

the answer to your question is here...
Colossians 2:11-13GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]In him you were also circumcised. It was not a circumcision performed by human hands. But it was a removal of the corrupt nature in the circumcision performed by Christ. [SUP]12 [/SUP]This happened when you were placed in the tomb with Christ through baptism. In baptism you were also brought back to life with Christ through faith in the power of God,[SUP][a][/SUP] who brought him back to life.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]You were once dead because of your failures and your uncircumcised corrupt nature. But God made you alive with Christ when he forgave all our failures.

If you don't like that translation....

Colossians 2:11-13American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]in whom ye were also circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, in the putting off of the body of the flesh, in the circumcision of Christ;
[SUP]12 [/SUP]having been buried with him in baptism, wherein ye were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And you, being dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, you, I say, did he make alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses;

Colossians 2:11-13New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh[SUP][a][/SUP] was put off when you were circumcised by[SUP][b][/SUP] Christ, [SUP]12 [/SUP]having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you[SUP][c][/SUP] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

PACEMAKER · Sep 16, 2014

newbirth said:

newbirth, i am glad that you finally agree with me that Christ has taken care of ALL our sins.
You posted; Collisions 2: [SUP]13 [/SUP]When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you[SUP][c][/SUP] alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

You said that this was your answer.
ALL means ALL ; it is just that Simple
We are Not to take away with what Christ did on the Cross..
[h=1] 1 Corinthians 1:17-18New International Version (NIV)[/h] [SUP]17 [/SUP]For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
[h=3]Christ Crucified Is God’s Power and Wisdom
[/h][SUP]18 [/SUP]For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

The "Gospel" is the Life, Death, And Resurrection of Jesus Christ

"water baptism " is NOT part of the Gospel...

newbirth · Sep 16, 2014

PACEMAKER said:

The way you emphasise on All
Do you suppose he forgave you of all the sins up to the point you received him and he made you a new creature without sin? or do you suppose he forgave of all those sins plus all those you may commit in the future?.....
2 Peter 1:9
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

You say....
"water baptism " is NOT part of the Gospel...

Paul does not agree with you....

Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Colossians 2:12

Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

PACEMAKER · Sep 18, 2014

newbirth said:

newbirth these verses you quoted is showing that "water baptism" is a Symbol of the Beginning of our New Life with Christ

It also says that we are "Risen by our faith in God"

Where is the words "water baptism" in Ephesians chapter 1

[h=2]Spiritual Blessings in Christ[/h] 3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-- 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8 that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9 And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment--to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ. 11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of His glory.

Explain this verse
7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches
of God's GRACE

What is your Definition of GRACE ??
Can Not be GRACE PLUS ....Anything that is Physically done by someone...

Verse 13 says And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

newbirth Romans chapter 10 explains How we Receive Our Free Gift of Salvation

8 But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your HEART ," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11 As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." 14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?

Romans 6: 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

A gift is something given to someone without the expectation of payment or doing something physically for the gift.
The gift is meant to be free.
And the Gift may be Accepted or Rejected..

I believe that you would agree that we all want the Honest Truth about what the Scriptures say..

Adding “water baptism” to a Free Gift would No Longer make it a GIFT

CHOICES ACCEPT or REJECT JESUS CHRIST

Is Who that He says that He is
And did what He said that He did..

You still have Not Explained

Acts 3:19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
Can you explain that in Peters 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] message
Why he left out to be “water baptized”

newbirth · Sep 18, 2014

PACEMAKER said:

newbirth these verses you quoted is showing that "water baptism" is a Symbol of the Beginning of our New Life with Christ

It also says that we are "Risen by our faith in God"

Where is the words "water baptism" in Ephesians chapter 1

Spiritual Blessings in Christ

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-- 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8 that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9 And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment--to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ. 11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of His glory.

Explain this verse
7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches
of God's GRACE

What is your Definition of GRACE ??
Can Not be GRACE PLUS ....Anything that is Physically done by someone...

Verse 13 says And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

newbirth Romans chapter 10 explains How we Receive Our Free Gift of Salvation

8 But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your HEART ," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11 As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile--the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." 14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?

Romans 6: 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

A gift is something given to someone without the expectation of payment or doing something physically for the gift.
The gift is meant to be free.
And the Gift may be Accepted or Rejected..

I believe that you would agree that we all want the Honest Truth about what the Scriptures say..

Adding “water baptism” to a Free Gift would No Longer make it a GIFT

CHOICES ACCEPT or REJECT JESUS CHRIST

Is Who that He says that He is
And did what He said that He did..

You still have Not Explained

Acts 3:19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
Can you explain that in Peters 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] message
Why he left out to be “water baptized”

where does it say water baptism is a symbol
The primary response of a believer is confession ,repentance and baptism...in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ....
If Peter did not mention water baptism in Actc 3 does it mean there was no more baptism? So was Philip preaching a different gospel in Acts 8:12....My friend the teaching of Christ is synonymous with baptism....

PACEMAKER · Sep 19, 2014

newbirth said:

newbirth my friend,
Please don't misunderstand me about “water baptism”
I believe that if you are a Believer in Jesus Christ
that He is Who He Said that He Was
and did what He said that He did

Then you should be “water baptized”
As an Outward Expression
( to make your decision made Public that you are
a follower of Jesus Christ)

Because of your Inward Feelings
( a change in your Heart (Repentance)
and your willingness to Start a New life style)

From what I read in scriptures; I do Not agree with you opinion
about the power of “water baptism” to take away our sins.
You are taking away from what Jesus Christ did on the Cross; Sorry, But I just don't like it like just like Paul said in 1 Corinthians 1:17 (NIV)
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
Yes, Paul did baptize; but in this verse he is telling us that “water baptism” has No Power
Because it would take away from what Christ did by dying as the Sacrificial Lamb of God

I Peter3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.
Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Conclusion:When Jesus died He earned the right to "rescue" or "save" individuals. He was sinless. He did not deserve to die. It was His choice. Now He can forgive the sins of anyone who wants his/her sins forgiven. It is our personal choice and He has left that decision to each of us.
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. (NASB) John 3:16
He will forgive all of our sins forever.
. . . but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET.
For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. (NASB) Hebrews 10:12-14
All of our past sins will be forgiven. All of our present and future sins will also be forgiven as well.
ALL of our sins will be forgiven.

Newbirth, No where in the Scriptures does it say that we will be “Condemned “ if we are Not “water baptized”
But In Mark 16:16 it says that we will be “Condemned “ if we do Not Believe.
What If …. the Scriptures said that we Had to do 10 Push Ups and someone could help pull us up if we needed help before we could be Saved..
You would say that I am crazy... that is what you are saying about “water baptism”

Our Faith, Trust , Peace, Hope, Belief is between us and Christ.
Christ Knows our HEART, we communicate with God through Jesus Christ by Prayer.
If we are Sincere about our Repentance....
He Knows our Heart

But you say.... Jesus does Not Believe you Until you are “water baptized”
Think about what you are saying..
You say that Christ died for my sins
But “water baptism” takes away my sins..

That is a Contradiction according to these verses above.
I will put my Trust, Faith , Hope, Belief in Jesus Christ

You can take “water baptism”

newbirth, Thanks for bring up Acts chapter 8
As you start out in verse 12 and 13; and Stop there I could see how you believe how you do about “water baptism” .
It is Important Not to pick and Choose Scriptures to try to prove a point..
Continue reading verses 14 thru 17 and people had been “water baptized” BUT NOT received the Holy Spirit..
They got Holy Spirit by laying on of hands
Continue reading verses 18 thru 23. Simon wanted that Power. Look at what he was told in verses below
12 But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.
14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”
20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”
Again Peter said Repent. Not be "water baptized"

Pray for Forgiveness,
Receive Gift from the Lord
And it is just between you and God through Christ
And what is in you HEART..
Pray for the Honest Truth about Gods Word..

newbirth · Sep 19, 2014

PACEMAKER said:

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
It does not say repent and be baptised for the world to see ..does it?

it is of faith not feelings

who said water baptism takes away sins? it is God who forgives sins...if he says that is what we must do ...you can argue as Naaman did but it doesn’t change anything

that still does not change...Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Jesus was saving and forgiving sins before he died.....we are forgiven our past sins....when we abide in him ,if we sin we confess our sin and he forgives us....

if you refuse to be baptised then you don't believe...if you don't believe then you condemned.....
whatever the scripture say to do we obey we don't say it sounds crazy

No, I am saying you don't believe Jesus if you are not water baptised...never said water baptism takes away your sins

Then obey him

brother your confusion is great ...I pray God opens your understanding that you may see the truth

[/QUOTE]
It is clear men no longer trust God but rather the doctrine of man....

PACEMAKER · Sep 20, 2014

newbirth said:

It is clear men no longer trust God but rather the doctrine of man....[/QUOTE]

The cost of your sins is more than you can pay.
The gift of your God is more than you can imagine! -
Max ‪#‎GripofGrace‬

newbirth, this is your best attempt yet as to answering my questions. But you are still are Not addressing all the verses that I asked for an explanation to.
If you don't believe me just go back and look at the post;
You still did Not address
the Definition of Free Gift.
I am Not confused, but you apparently are because you could not explain Acts chapter 8 :14 thru 23

People can receive the Lord’s free gift of salvation anywhere and at anytime. If you can be baptized with water at the time you are receiving your salvation in the Lord, that is great and you should always do that if at all possible. However, there will be other times that there will be no means to actually baptize someone with water when someone is being saved in the Lord.
If that should happen, then the person who has just been saved should be baptized with water as soon as they reasonably can at a later date. But if by chance they would die before they could have been baptized with water, they would still go straight to heaven. The fact that they could not be baptized with water will have no bearing or influence on them being able to enter into heaven if they should die before they could have been baptized with water.
We are only saved by grace through our personal faith in Jesus and not by any type of works we can do, which will include any type of “water baptism”,
I believe there are five main reasons as to why Jesus wants us to include “water baptism”
as part of our experience with Him.

To symbolize the washing away of our sins
To signify our new inner union with the Lord
To identify with the death and resurrection of Jesus
To symbolize the death of our old life and old man, the inward regeneration of the Holy Spirit, and the resurrection into a brand new life with the Lord

Here are two powerful, foundational verses showing us that there is only one baptism, and that this
one baptism is being baptized with the Holy Spirit.

“There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism …”
(Ephesians 4:4-5)

“I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
(Mark 1:8)

The first verse perfectly lays it out for all of us when it specifically says that there is only “one baptism.” The second verse then tells us what this one baptism is going to be.
Notice that John the Baptist is saying that he was baptizing people with water, but that when Jesus would come, He would be baptizing people with the Holy Spirit. What is actually being baptized in this one baptism is our human spirits are being baptized with the Holy Spirit, since the Holy Spirit immediately enters in and takes up residence in our human spirits at the moment of our conversions to the Lord.
I believe John the Baptist is letting us know that there is a major difference between being baptized with water like what he was doing before Jesus arrived on the scene, and then being baptized with the Holy Spirit through Jesus.
Though water baptism is a powerful rite and symbolic act to make before the Lord
it is not what actually gets us saved and born again before Him.
Credit given to; Teaching On the Importance Of Water Baptism

newbirth, If Jesus Christ already Knows your Heart
And you Pray and Ask for Forgiveness of your sins
And you tell Him Honestly that you are putting your Trust and Faith in Him ALONE..
Then what good would “water baptism” be that you and another person DO ..
As a Requirement of your Salvation???

The cost of your sins is more than you can pay.
The gift of your God is more than you can imagine! -
Max ‪#‎GripofGrace‬

kennethcadwell · Sep 20, 2014

Matthew 28:16-20[h=3]The Great Commission[/h][SUP]16 [/SUP]Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. [SUP]17 [/SUP]When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, [SUP]20 [/SUP]and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Here we have the great commission, and Jesus says to teach to obey all he commanded. Here in the same commission He commanded baptism to be done. In Mark 16:16 He puts it in the same category in those who are saved.

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

[h=4][/h]It does this to show that Jesus makes a point that those who are truly His sheep do as He said.
If you are not His sheep you will not do these things, and He makes that clear;

Luke 6:46-49

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

VCO · Sep 20, 2014

IAm3rd said:

For those who confuse spiritual baptism (immersion) into the spiritual body of Christ that does SAVE, with the Christian Water Baptism (immersion); it is not the Water Baptism that SAVES, but RATHER it is the spiritual immersion into the spiritual Body of Christ.

Do not get me wrong, Christian Water Baptism is IMPORTANT, in that it is one of our FIRST STEPS, in our Christian Walk of Obedience, which is produced out of the LOVE of GOD that was poured out in our hearts the moment we WERE SAVED, by the Holy Spirit. That is also that same moment that we were immersed into the spiritual body of CHRIST.

Romans 5:5-10 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

See it? ALL were baptized into that one body, INCLUDING THE THIEF ON THE CROSS, including the O.T. Saints, and including anyone who died before they could climb into the Baptistry, River, or even get sprinkled or have water poured on their foreheads (though I believe it really should be immersion, because that is exactly what the Greed word baptismo MEANS). It is NOT the Water Baptism that Saves, because if you genuinely received Jesus Christ as LORD, it was that very moment of genuine Faith, that you were SAVED by GRACE (that which cannot be earned by works); that you were SAVED. If it was the REAL DEAL, you will want to walk in obedience and the Christian Water Baptism certainly is PART of that WALK.

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

So what other proof do we have that Christian Water Baptism is not the baptism that SAVES?

Malachi 3:6 (NKJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] "For I am the LORD, I do not change; Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob.

THEREFORE, if we can find out how God Saved ONE man, we will know how GOD saves everyone that ever gets SAVED.

Romans 4:3-5 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Now to the one who works, pay is not considered as a gift, but as something owed.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness.

NOW before someone thinks that Paul is advocating that we do not have to walk in obedience AFTER WE ARE SAVED, he was purely talking about those who believe they have to EARN part of their Salvation, READ VERSE 4 above again:

Ephesians 2:8-10 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
[SUP]9 [/SUP] not from works, so that no one can boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them.

Ephesians 5:8-10 (ESV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light
[SUP]9 [/SUP] (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true),
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord.

Philippians 3:17-18 (ESV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ.

2 John 1:6 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

See it? Good Works and Obedience are part of our Christian WALK, not part of Earning Our Salvation, because that can NEVER be EARNED, however it is a GIFT from GOD.

TruthisPower · Sep 20, 2014

IAm3rd said:

John's baptism was due to be replaced by the baptism commanded by Jesus: “Make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit.” (Mt 28:19) This was the only water baptism having God's approval from Pentecost, 33 C.E. forward. Some years after 33 C.E. Apollos, a zealous man, was teaching correctly about Jesus, but he had an understanding of only John's baptism. On this matter he had to be corrected, as did the disciples whom Paul met at Ephesus. These men in Ephesus had undergone John's baptism, but evidently after its valid performance had ended, since Paul's visit to Ephesus was about 20 years after the termination of the Law covenant. They were then baptized correctly in the name of Jesus and received holy spirit. Ac 18:24-26; 19:1-7. So everyone that John baptize would needed to be re-baptize in the name of Jesus which hadn't been done yet until after Pentecost 33 C.E. after Jesus death.

(Acts 18:24-26) Now a Jew named A·pol′los, a native of Alexandria, arrived in Eph′e·sus; he was an eloquent man who was well-versed in the Scriptures. 25 This man had been instructed in the way of Jehovah, and aglow with the spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things about Jesus, but he was acquainted only with the baptism of John. 26 He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, and when Pris·cil′la and Aq′ui·la heard him, they took him into their company and explained the way of God more accurately to him.

(Acts 19:1-7) In the course of events, while A·pol′los was in Corinth, Paul went through the inland regions and came down to Eph′e·sus. There he found some disciples 2 and said to them: “Did you receive holy spirit when you became believers?” They replied to him: “Why, we have never heard that there is a holy spirit.” 3 So he said: “In what, then, were you baptized?” They said: “In John’s baptism.” 4 Paul said: “John baptized with the baptism in symbol of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they got baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul laid his hands on them, the holy spirit came upon them, and they began speaking in foreign languages and prophesying. 7 There were about 12 men in all.

So the evildoer that died next to Jesus would never be able to get into Heaven. Because he never received Holy Spirit and was never baptized.

TruthisPower · Sep 20, 2014

However, there will be other times that there will be no means to actually baptize someone with water when someone is being saved in the Lord.

But if by chance they would die before they could have been baptized with water, they would still go straight to heaven. ???

PACEMAKER

I agree with the above statement, look at all who died before jesus, Moses, Job, Abraham, John the Baptist and so forth..... They never were baptized with water and in Jesus name but.......

But I dont agree with you on the fact that you go against the Scripture by saying:But if by chance they would die before they could have been baptized with water, they would still go straight to heaven.

Jesus didnt teach that, he said at (John 3:3) In response Jesus said to him: “Most truly I say to you, unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.”

So the one that has never been baptize can't go into heaven Ever No buts. They still have salvation but not in a sense that the get the reward to be with God in heaven their resurrection will be here on earth

newbirth · Sep 20, 2014

TruthisPower said:

God's kingdom came to earth and you can't see it....
[SUP]9 [/SUP]After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Matthew 12:28
But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Matthew 21:31
Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

Mark 9:1
And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

VCO · Sep 20, 2014

PACEMAKER said:

It is clear men no longer trust God but rather the doctrine of man....

The cost of your sins is more than you can pay.
The gift of your God is more than you can imagine! -
Max ‪#‎GripofGrace‬

newbirth, this is your best attempt yet as to answering my questions. But you are still are Not addressing all the verses that I asked for an explanation to.
If you don't believe me just go back and look at the post;
You still did Not address
the Definition of Free Gift.
I am Not confused, but you apparently are because you could not explain Acts chapter 8 :14 thru 23

People can receive the Lord’s free gift of salvation anywhere and at anytime. If you can be baptized with water at the time you are receiving your salvation in the Lord, that is great and you should always do that if at all possible. However, there will be other times that there will be no means to actually baptize someone with water when someone is being saved in the Lord.
If that should happen, then the person who has just been saved should be baptized with water as soon as they reasonably can at a later date. But if by chance they would die before they could have been baptized with water, they would still go straight to heaven. The fact that they could not be baptized with water will have no bearing or influence on them being able to enter into heaven if they should die before they could have been baptized with water.
We are only saved by grace through our personal faith in Jesus and not by any type of works we can do, which will include any type of “water baptism”,
I believe there are five main reasons as to why Jesus wants us to include “water baptism”
as part of our experience with Him.

To symbolize the washing away of our sins
To signify our new inner union with the Lord
To identify with the death and resurrection of Jesus
To symbolize the death of our old life and old man, the inward regeneration of the Holy Spirit, and the resurrection into a brand new life with the Lord

Here are two powerful, foundational verses showing us that there is only one baptism, and that this
one baptism is being baptized with the Holy Spirit.

“There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism …”
(Ephesians 4:4-5)

“I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
(Mark 1:8)

The first verse perfectly lays it out for all of us when it specifically says that there is only “one baptism.” The second verse then tells us what this one baptism is going to be.
Notice that John the Baptist is saying that he was baptizing people with water, but that when Jesus would come, He would be baptizing people with the Holy Spirit. What is actually being baptized in this one baptism is our human spirits are being baptized with the Holy Spirit, since the Holy Spirit immediately enters in and takes up residence in our human spirits at the moment of our conversions to the Lord.
I believe John the Baptist is letting us know that there is a major difference between being baptized with water like what he was doing before Jesus arrived on the scene, and then being baptized with the Holy Spirit through Jesus.
Though water baptism is a powerful rite and symbolic act to make before the Lord
it is not what actually gets us saved and born again before Him.
Credit given to; Teaching On the Importance Of Water Baptism

newbirth, If Jesus Christ already Knows your Heart
And you Pray and Ask for Forgiveness of your sins
And you tell Him Honestly that you are putting your Trust and Faith in Him ALONE..
Then what good would “water baptism” be that you and another person DO ..
As a Requirement of your Salvation???

The cost of your sins is more than you can pay.
The gift of your God is more than you can imagine! -
Max ‪#‎GripofGrace‬

A little advise. This is a proven fact, that the surest way to make sure people do not read your posts, is to use EXTRA LARGE, or SUPER LARGE Fonts. I try to refrain from using anything larger than a 4 and then only a word or two in that size. Font size 3 in bold, is actually large enough to get the fact across that you are pointing out an important part that you want to emphasize.

Joidevivre · Sep 20, 2014

Looking at baptism as necessary to be saved is the same as looking at communion as necessary to be saved. Both are sacraments of the church regarded as outward and visible signs of inward and spiritual graces to make the presence of Christ more real to us. Christ chose the things of the world like bread and wine in communion, and water in baptism because we use them in our everyday life. These are things that are tangible to us.

It is my thought that he wanted us to have our senses involved. Feeling the water closing over me in baptism brought about the very real experience of dying, and rising out of it with the water running off of me was a very real feeling of the beginning of a spiritual life. As the minister read scripture, it amplified what was read. It just made more real that which is of a spiritual thing.

These things are all means of His Grace - not the saving Grace that only our faith brings about when we receive the work done on the cross for the atonement of our sins. And the gift of His Grace and mercy that brings us unto Him for eternity. I know that I am saved by Grace alone. I just feel sorry for those who have trouble with the simplicity of this truth.

Butch5 · Sep 20, 2014

IAm3rd said:

It's not just a symbol, it's how one enters into the new covenant with God.

VCO · Sep 20, 2014

TruthisPower said:

Correction: Born Again has NOTHING to do with Water.

John 3:3-7 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
[SUP]4 [/SUP] “But how can anyone be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked Him. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time and be born?”
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Jesus answered, “I assure you:
Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
{NOT water baptism, ⇧ ⇩ but rather it is a reference to the breaking of water at natural birth.}
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh,
and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.⇦ "Born Again"
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Do not be amazed that I told you that you must be born again.

Born Again, is the very moment the Holy Spirit enters your heart, bringing your once dead human spirit to eternal life. Which is part of GOD's free GIFT of Salvation through Faith. In that same instant, the Holy Spirit pours the Love of GOD into our hearts producing a desire to obey Him, and to submit to Him as LORD, which means MASTER. Water Baptism is then something that do out of that desire to obey HIM, that was produced by the LOVE of GOD that the Holy Spirit poured into our Hearts:

Romans 5:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

John 3:36 (NIV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

This is the Baptism that saves, the immersion of our eternally alive spirit into the spiritual body of Christ, and that too happened the instant the Holy Spirit came into our hearts.

1 Corinthians 12:12-14 (HCSB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For as the body is one and has many parts, and all the parts of that body, though many, are one body—so also is Christ.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body {NOT into water}—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] So the body is not one part but many.

VCO · Sep 20, 2014

Butch5 said:

It is a picture of what took place SPIRITUALLY in our hearts when the Holy Spirit came in, and a step of obedience manifesting the LOVE of GOD that the Holy Spirit poured into our hearts: Ref. Rom. 5:5.

Butch5 · Sep 20, 2014

VCO said:

Can you provide Scripture for that statement?

Baptism symbol only ?

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