what is so hard to understand in "Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." how could any right thinking person conclude born of water could mean ... it is a reference to the breaking of water at natural birth that is foolishness you cannot take something from your flesh birth to enter into the kingdom of God....to enter the kingdom you must be born of water(baptism) and the spirit(gift of the HS)....if you think it is that water at natural birth it means you are born in the kingdom or at least halfway into it...
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Read my post #298. No Point in repeating everything I said in two posts back to back.
PLUS you need to understand the moment that LOVE of GOD is poured out in our hearts, one of the first things it produces is mourning over one's own utter sinfulness. That LOVE of GOD is like a spotlight on our sinfulness, and that LOVE produces a desire to confess and repent of our utter sinfulness:
1 John 1:9 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
BEFORE YOU EVER CLIMB INTO THE BAPTISTRY. ✞
1 Peter 3:19-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] In that state He also went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison
[SUP]20 [/SUP] who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while an ark was being prepared. In it a few—that is, eight people—were saved through water.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the pledge of a good conscience toward God) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
PLUS you need to understand the moment that LOVE of GOD is poured out in our hearts, one of the first things it produces is mourning over one's own utter sinfulness. That LOVE of GOD is like a spotlight on our sinfulness, and that LOVE produces a desire to confess and repent of our utter sinfulness:
1 John 1:9 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
BEFORE YOU EVER CLIMB INTO THE BAPTISTRY. ✞
1 Peter 3:19-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] In that state He also went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison
[SUP]20 [/SUP] who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while an ark was being prepared. In it a few—that is, eight people—were saved through water.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the pledge of a good conscience toward God) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
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BY READING THE VERY NEXT VERSE, KNOWING IT IS LINKED TO PREVIOUS VERSE, NOT ONLY IN CONTEXT, BUT LITERALLY IS THE VERY NEXT STATEMENT THAT CAME OUT OF OUR LORD'S MOUTH. YOU CANNOT SEPARATE THOSE BACK TO BACK SENTENCES WITHOUT JUMPING TO THE WRONG CONCLUSION.
He was literally saying you have to be physically BORN, and Born Again Spiritually.
John 3:6 (HCSB)
6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
DEFINES what He meant in the previous verse by Born of Water.
He was literally saying you have to be physically BORN, and Born Again Spiritually.
John 3:6 (HCSB)
6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit.
DEFINES what He meant in the previous verse by Born of Water.
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Just because the Bible knowledge commentary says it's a symbol doesn't mean it's a symbol. There is nothing in Scripture that says baptism is a symbol. Annanias told Paul, be baptized and wash away your sins. It is baptism that sins of a new convert are forgiven. Baptism is an appeal to God for forgiveness of sins. Peter said, repent and be baptized for the remission of sins.
John 3:3-7 is most definitely speaking of water baptism. To say water refers to the breaking of the woman's water during birth doesn't fit the context. firstly, of all of the people who came to Jesus, how many of them were not of the natural water? None, everyone was born of natural water, so, there would be no reason for Jesus to even mention natural water at birth. The statement, you must be born again was something that pertained to the Jews. God had made promises to Abraham and his "seed". The Jews were Abraham's seed, therefore they thought that the promises to Abraham and his seed were to them simple by virtue of their physical birth. Nicodemus thought this also, so Jesus corrects him as tells him that his physical birth through Abraham is not sufficient for him to see the kingdom of God, (the promises to Abraham). Then He tells Nicodemus how to be born again, one must be born of water and the Spirit.
A study of God's use of water in the Scriptures is quite revealing. For instance consider what God said.
NKJ Ezekiel 47:1 Then he brought me back to the door of the temple; and there was water, flowing from under the threshold of the temple toward the east, for the front of the temple faced east; the water was flowing from under the right side of the temple, south of the altar.
2 He brought me out by way of the north gate, and led me around on the outside to the outer gateway that faces east; and there was water, running out on the right side.
3 And when the man went out to the east with the line in his hand, he measured one thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the water came up to my ankles.
4 Again he measured one thousand and brought me through the waters; the water came up to my knees. Again he measured one thousand and brought me through; the water came up to my waist.
5 Again he measured one thousand, and it was a river that I could not cross; for the water was too deep, water in which one must swim, a river that could not be crossed.
6 He said to me, "Son of man, have you seen this?" Then he brought me and returned me to the bank of the river.
7 When I returned, there, along the bank of the river, were very many trees on one side and the other.
8 Then he said to me: "This water flows toward the eastern region, goes down into the valley, and enters the sea. When it reaches the sea, its waters are healed.
9 "And it shall be that every living thing that moves, wherever the rivers go, will live. There will be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters go there; for they will be healed, and everything will live wherever the river goes.
10 "It shall be that fishermen will stand by it from En Gedi to En Eglaim; they will be places for spreading their nets. Their fish will be of the same kinds as the fish of the Great Sea, exceedingly many.
11 "But its swamps and marshes will not be healed; they will be given over to salt.
12 "Along the bank of the river, on this side and that, will grow all kinds of trees used for food; their leaves will not wither, and their fruit will not fail. They will bear fruit every month, because their water flows from the sanctuary. Their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for medicine." (Eze 47:1-12 NKJ)
Compare that with what John saw in Revelation.
NKJ Revelation 22:1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. (Rev 22:1-2 NKJ)
It's the same thing Ezekiel saw, God has river whose water brings life to whatever it touches. Water is connected with life and healing throughout the Scriptures.
A study of God's use of water in the Scriptures is quite revealing. For instance consider what God said.
NKJ Ezekiel 47:1 Then he brought me back to the door of the temple; and there was water, flowing from under the threshold of the temple toward the east, for the front of the temple faced east; the water was flowing from under the right side of the temple, south of the altar.
2 He brought me out by way of the north gate, and led me around on the outside to the outer gateway that faces east; and there was water, running out on the right side.
3 And when the man went out to the east with the line in his hand, he measured one thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the water came up to my ankles.
4 Again he measured one thousand and brought me through the waters; the water came up to my knees. Again he measured one thousand and brought me through; the water came up to my waist.
5 Again he measured one thousand, and it was a river that I could not cross; for the water was too deep, water in which one must swim, a river that could not be crossed.
6 He said to me, "Son of man, have you seen this?" Then he brought me and returned me to the bank of the river.
7 When I returned, there, along the bank of the river, were very many trees on one side and the other.
8 Then he said to me: "This water flows toward the eastern region, goes down into the valley, and enters the sea. When it reaches the sea, its waters are healed.
9 "And it shall be that every living thing that moves, wherever the rivers go, will live. There will be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters go there; for they will be healed, and everything will live wherever the river goes.
10 "It shall be that fishermen will stand by it from En Gedi to En Eglaim; they will be places for spreading their nets. Their fish will be of the same kinds as the fish of the Great Sea, exceedingly many.
11 "But its swamps and marshes will not be healed; they will be given over to salt.
12 "Along the bank of the river, on this side and that, will grow all kinds of trees used for food; their leaves will not wither, and their fruit will not fail. They will bear fruit every month, because their water flows from the sanctuary. Their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for medicine." (Eze 47:1-12 NKJ)
Compare that with what John saw in Revelation.
NKJ Revelation 22:1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. (Rev 22:1-2 NKJ)
It's the same thing Ezekiel saw, God has river whose water brings life to whatever it touches. Water is connected with life and healing throughout the Scriptures.
A
No, it does not say that "specifically" However, please understand that getting baptized is YOUR CHOICE its not something done on a check off list - its all about your choice to come together with Jesus Christ. John (Jesus cousin) said, he was not worthy to baptize Jesus as he knew who he was - but, Jesus knew it was something he had chose to do in his journey here on earth and he wanted John to baptize him. Now, you may say, "why did Jesus need to be baptized" he who had no sin? Well he did it for people like you and me to show us that this is the way and this is what "we should do" as he came to be our example of what to be like to please THE LORD ALMIGHTY. I am not sure if this helps you with understanding this, but, I pray that it does. It is important to be just as Jesus was here on earth and remember it may not be your time yet to do it also. My daughter was ready to be baptized at a very early age. 7-8 I think it was - she held my hand and told me "she was ready" and I said, ready for what? She said, I want to go up there and be saved. When I took her up to the front of the church the Elders were concerned that "she didn't know what she was doing" and I saw that in them, and I clarified for them that she knew as we always talk about God, Jesus, Holy Spirit and getting saved and why and I had to put it to them to remember not to turn down a person who wanted to get saved/baptized - as Jesus said, and I quote "do not turn away the little children from me..." it was one of the most beautiful days of my life, my heart wept with joy and unconditional love for the act of love she showed Christ on that day. Her big sister has not made that decision yet, but, I know one day she will and I too will weep with joy once again all for the love of Christ and his marvelous sacrifice for us to all have a chance to be with him when this life is all over. One day, when you are ready to give your life over to Christ, you will want to do it and there will not be a soul who will stand in your way nor any doubt about what you are doing it for and why - then and probably only then will you truly understand what the "symbol" of the baptism is truly all about. The Holy spirit is not done with you yet. 
Just remember who is the King of Doubt/Confusion - he's the one behind the need for the clarification of what it means....
Just remember who is the King of Doubt/Confusion - he's the one behind the need for the clarification of what it means....you are the one saying that bro and that is rubbish...when you are born of flesh that is when that water breaks and it has nothing to do with your spiritual birth ...in which you are baptised and receive the promise off the HS...
what is the purpose of telling a man who has been physically born that he has to be physically born....if that were so all he would have had to say is you must be born of the spirit to enter the kingdom seeing all were already born of water...but he made the point of clarifying you must be born of... water....and the spirit....
what is the purpose of telling a man who has been physically born that he has to be physically born....if that were so all he would have had to say is you must be born of the spirit to enter the kingdom seeing all were already born of water...but he made the point of clarifying you must be born of... water....and the spirit....
What else do you need...when the scripture you post says baptism saves you through the resurrection of Jesus Christ
what could be more stupid than the statement below..clearly it is from a nonbeliever...if baptism saves us through the resurrection of Jesus Christ what are we saved from.....is it not from sin?...if we have a good conscience toward God is it not a conscience void of sin?
what could be more stupid than the statement below..clearly it is from a nonbeliever...if baptism saves us through the resurrection of Jesus Christ what are we saved from.....is it not from sin?...if we have a good conscience toward God is it not a conscience void of sin?
P
However, there will be other times that there will be no means to actually baptize someone with water when someone is being saved in the Lord.
But if by chance they would die before they could have been baptized with water, they would still go straight to heaven. ???
PACEMAKER
I agree with the above statement, look at all who died before jesus, Moses, Job, Abraham, John the Baptist and so forth..... They never were baptized with water and in Jesus name but.......
But I dont agree with you on the fact that you go against the Scripture by saying:But if by chance they would die before they could have been baptized with water, they would still go straight to heaven.
Jesus didnt teach that, he said at (John 3:3) In response Jesus said to him: “Most truly I say to you, unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.”
So the one that has never been baptize can't go into heaven Ever No buts. They still have salvation but not in a sense that the get the reward to be with God in heaven their resurrection will be here on earth
But if by chance they would die before they could have been baptized with water, they would still go straight to heaven. ???
PACEMAKER
I agree with the above statement, look at all who died before jesus, Moses, Job, Abraham, John the Baptist and so forth..... They never were baptized with water and in Jesus name but.......
But I dont agree with you on the fact that you go against the Scripture by saying:But if by chance they would die before they could have been baptized with water, they would still go straight to heaven.
Jesus didnt teach that, he said at (John 3:3) In response Jesus said to him: “Most truly I say to you, unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.”
So the one that has never been baptize can't go into heaven Ever No buts. They still have salvation but not in a sense that the get the reward to be with God in heaven their resurrection will be here on earth
(John 3:3) In response Jesus said to him: “Most truly I say to you, unless anyone is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.”
So the one that has never been baptize can't go into heaven Ever No buts. They still have salvation but not in a sense that the get the reward to be with God in heaven their resurrection will be here on earth
So just where are these Saved People??
and I am saying what you deduce is stupidity....you are already physically born that cannot be undone or redone... what he is showing is that they are two separate things and there is no connection hence vs 6.... no one has to tell you to be born physically ...do they? what you want to learn about is being born again...that is the lesson...."Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."He makes it clear in vs 6...there are two totally different births...he told us how we must be born again...
I'm aware of the context, but, are you aware of the cultural setting in which that statement was made? Jesus was Jewish, He was speaking to Nicodemus who was Jewish. The Jewish people were the seed (born of the flesh) of Abraham. As I said, God had made promises to Abraham and his seed.
KJV Genesis 13:15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. (Gen 13:15 KJV)
The Jews understood that the "seed" here was them because they were the offspring (born of the flesh) of Abraham. This is how Nicodemus a Jew would have understood this. Jesus is telling him, he is wrong, it's not the physical (born of the flesh) offspring that will see the kingdom of God but rather those who are born again. Why do you suppose that Jesus says Nicodemus must be born again? Jesus is telling him that in order to receive the land inheritance, he'll need another birth, his physical birth (born of the flesh) from Abraham is not sufficient to gain him access to the kingdom. Paul also addresses this issue stating that the "Seed" in this promise is Christ. The land is promised to Abraham and his Seed, which is Christ, not all of the physical offspring of Abraham.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (Gal 3:1 KJV)
The Jews thought they were the seed of the promises but Paul explains that they were not, but rather that God mean a single Seed and that seed was Christ. He goes one to say,
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal 3:1 KJV)
He conlcudes that those who have been baptized into Christ are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. So, the Christians partake of the promise to Abraham through faith in Christ. This is the same what a Jew must partake of the promises to Abraham, their physical birth (born of the flesh) is not sufficient.
KJV Genesis 13:15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. (Gen 13:15 KJV)
The Jews understood that the "seed" here was them because they were the offspring (born of the flesh) of Abraham. This is how Nicodemus a Jew would have understood this. Jesus is telling him, he is wrong, it's not the physical (born of the flesh) offspring that will see the kingdom of God but rather those who are born again. Why do you suppose that Jesus says Nicodemus must be born again? Jesus is telling him that in order to receive the land inheritance, he'll need another birth, his physical birth (born of the flesh) from Abraham is not sufficient to gain him access to the kingdom. Paul also addresses this issue stating that the "Seed" in this promise is Christ. The land is promised to Abraham and his Seed, which is Christ, not all of the physical offspring of Abraham.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (Gal 3:1 KJV)
The Jews thought they were the seed of the promises but Paul explains that they were not, but rather that God mean a single Seed and that seed was Christ. He goes one to say,
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal 3:1 KJV)
He conlcudes that those who have been baptized into Christ are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. So, the Christians partake of the promise to Abraham through faith in Christ. This is the same what a Jew must partake of the promises to Abraham, their physical birth (born of the flesh) is not sufficient.
it's really very simple.
"you must be born again"
"how? can i climb back into my mother's womb?"
"you must be born of water, and of spirit - flesh gives birth to flesh and spirit gives birth to spirit"
if you take off your "water-baptism-idolization" glasses, it becomes immediately clear that Jesus is talking about two births. that's why he says "born again." then he talks about two kinds of births - water & spirit - and contrasts them - "flesh begets flesh, spirit begets spirit"
all human flesh is mostly water. all human fetuses are born in a sac of water.
all humans come out of the womb when the water-sac breaks. the mother's water gushes out of her. this is how we know a child is about to be born.
all humans are 'born of water' in a very natural, easy-to-understand way.
you agree Jesus talks about two births.
you deny that he describes two births.
you agree Jesus contrasts two births.
i would think that a person who calls himself "newbirth" would have a better understanding of what our re-birthing is
"you must be born again"
"how? can i climb back into my mother's womb?"
"you must be born of water, and of spirit - flesh gives birth to flesh and spirit gives birth to spirit"
if you take off your "water-baptism-idolization" glasses, it becomes immediately clear that Jesus is talking about two births. that's why he says "born again." then he talks about two kinds of births - water & spirit - and contrasts them - "flesh begets flesh, spirit begets spirit"
all human flesh is mostly water. all human fetuses are born in a sac of water.
all humans come out of the womb when the water-sac breaks. the mother's water gushes out of her. this is how we know a child is about to be born.
all humans are 'born of water' in a very natural, easy-to-understand way.
you agree Jesus talks about two births.
you deny that he describes two births.
you agree Jesus contrasts two births.
i would think that a person who calls himself "newbirth" would have a better understanding of what our re-birthing is
it's really very simple.
"you must be born again"
"how? can i climb back into my mother's womb?"
"you must be born of water, and of spirit - flesh gives birth to flesh and spirit gives birth to spirit"
if you take off your "water-baptism-idolization" glasses, it becomes immediately clear that Jesus is talking about two births. that's why he says "born again." then he talks about two kinds of births - water & spirit - and contrasts them - "flesh begets flesh, spirit begets spirit"
all human flesh is mostly water. all human fetuses are born in a sac of water.
all humans come out of the womb when the water-sac breaks. the mother's water gushes out of her. this is how we know a child is about to be born.
all humans are 'born of water' in a very natural, easy-to-understand way.
you agree Jesus talks about two births.
you deny that he describes two births.
you agree Jesus contrasts two births.
i would think that a person who calls himself "newbirth" would have a better understanding of what our re-birthing is
"you must be born again"
"how? can i climb back into my mother's womb?"
"you must be born of water, and of spirit - flesh gives birth to flesh and spirit gives birth to spirit"
if you take off your "water-baptism-idolization" glasses, it becomes immediately clear that Jesus is talking about two births. that's why he says "born again." then he talks about two kinds of births - water & spirit - and contrasts them - "flesh begets flesh, spirit begets spirit"
all human flesh is mostly water. all human fetuses are born in a sac of water.
all humans come out of the womb when the water-sac breaks. the mother's water gushes out of her. this is how we know a child is about to be born.
all humans are 'born of water' in a very natural, easy-to-understand way.
you agree Jesus talks about two births.
you deny that he describes two births.
you agree Jesus contrasts two births.
i would think that a person who calls himself "newbirth" would have a better understanding of what our re-birthing is
Romans 6:4
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.