Be holy

MikkoAinasoja · Jul 22, 2015

Utah said:

The message is always been about improve, and sanctification but the problem of today is, that you people's can't take sound doctrine anymore, like it was predicted, that it will be, and I try to open your eye's to see that, when there is still time.

we live in a middle of difficult time period, and nearly no one seems to see that.

That's why it is a difficult time

MikkoAinasoja · Jul 22, 2015

mailmandan said:

All the man of God have been holy even in the Bible, then don't you think that we should be also, if we are not just like old prophet's but even more, as a servant of the Lord Yeshua, God's only son?

Holiness is a part of true saints nature, and knowledge of God, but the world is against all holy, and spreading it own unholy values specific in a way of media.

VioletReigns · Jul 22, 2015

MikkoAinasoja said:

Of course the world is against all holiness! It has been since Adam was in the garden. Son, I understand you want to preach for God and that's fine. But you must understand, sanctification is not something I do for myself. No man can make himself holy. Sanctification is not even "something" Jesus puts in me. Sanctification is Jesus Himself dwelling in me (1 Corinthians 1:30). Jesus puts in me Himself.

If you are looking at God's people as hopeless and lost, you are being self-righteous. Mikko, can you honestly look at God right now and say, "I am the perfect example of sanctification. I am living completely holy. I am not guilty as these people are." Because that is what you are "preaching" here. You are telling everyone here they're not as holy as you and that they are guilty and you are not.

I recommend you let God search your heart, son. Ask God why you keep telling His children that they are not as holy as you.

Read Luke 18:9-14 Which one are you, Mikko?

psalm6819 · Jul 22, 2015

MikkoAinasoja said:

No, the message is not "improve", the message is Jesus Christ, not our filthy rag righteousness. We do not sanctify ourselves, we cannot.

Skinski7 · Jul 22, 2015

VioletReigns said:

This is a very interesting statement because it reveals the common error of "God does everything and I do nothing."

Jesus Himself taught that one must HEAR AND DO.

DOING is something that directly involves US.

Look at these words...

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Who is the wise man? It is the one who HEARS the saying of Jesus and then DOES them.

Sanctification is the RESULT of one DOING.

Here is what Paul wrote...

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The main points being...

1. No condemnation for those whom are in Jesus Christ.
2. Those whom are in Jesus Christ abide in the Spirit of life.
3. Walking after the Spirit is connected the righteousness of the law being fulfilled inwardly.

Now look at a saying of Jesus...

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The righteousness of the Pharisees was an outward form only, inwardly they were corrupt...

Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

The Pharisees did not walk after the Spirit and therefore did not have the righteousness of the law fulfilled in them. They may not have outwardly committed adultery or outwardly been engaged in murder but...

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Jesus spoke of an INWARD RIGHTEOUSNESS as opposed to a mere external form of righteousness.

Inward righteousness is the result of HEARING AND DOING for DOING means WALKING ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT BY WHICH RIGHTEOUSNESS IF FULFILLED IN US.

Modern Christianity, in general, has absolutely perverted this concept with its "confess, trust and receive" which we can see reflected in comments like...

Modern religion has removed the necessity of DOING and replaced it with a GOD DOES IT FOR YOU. Thus the modern convert is taught to simply "confess they are a sinner" and "trust in Jesus" whereby they then WAIT for God to do some magic where He changes them. Anyone who comes along contending that WE HAVE TO DO is then labelled as "self righteous" because in their mind such a contention takes away from the "GOD DOING IT FOR YOU" concept.

mpaper345 · Jul 22, 2015

MarcR said:

We cannot achieve sinless perfection while on earth in the sense of the whole person,because God said in the flesh dwells no good thing,so even when we are led by the Spirit the flesh is still sinful although we do not have to go by the flesh,which Paul said that when he does good he notices evil is still present,so he serves Christ with his mind.

The flesh will still want to have it's way even when a person is saved and led by the Spirit,so in this sense we cannot achieve sinless perfection as a whole person on earth,although we can ignore the flesh and do things of the Spirit,but when we get to heaven we will have put off the flesh and have a spiritual body.

But the Bible does say that a Spirit led life will not fulfill the desires of the flesh,which means if a person allows the Spirit to lead them they will not sin because they are doing things of the Spirit and not the flesh,but even when we are led of the Spirit we can still sin if we desire to sin,but if we are led of the Spirit we cannot sin.

If a person is led of the Spirit they cannot sin because they are doing the things of the Spirit and not the flesh,and you will act like Christ,and I think a lot of people make excuses that they cannot abstain from sin totally,because they have sin in their life,but the Bible says a Spirit led life cannot sin.

The thing is that is a rare occasion in this generation that someone allows the Spirit to lead them for a long time,or that someone allows the Spirit to lead them at all,which the Bible said there would be a lot of hypocrites at the end times,and they will be lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God,and they have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof,which means they will not allow the Spirit to lead them,and they are ever leaning and never able to come to the truth.

Because of the vast amount of hypocrites in this time period,which will get worse,people think it is not possible to live without sin because of how they observe people claiming to be with Christ,and their own lifestyle.Too many people claiming to be with Christ are living worldly,caring about things of the world which God said do not do,that a lot of people will not allow the Spirit to lead them,and the Spirit will not lead anybody unless they only live for the kingdom of God,and not the world,which God said love not the worldor the things in the world.They are caring more about money and material things,and things they do not need,instead of the poor.

Which I am talking to myself too,but the Bible says that a Spirit led life cannot sin,and how can it if you are only doing things of the Spirit and not the flesh.

Skinski7 · Jul 22, 2015

Furthermore...

VioletReigns said:

Mikko comes on here and contends that people be holy and people then accuse him of being self righteous?

Peter wrote...

1Pe 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1Pe 1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
1Pe 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Was Peter being self righteous too?

Here we have an extract from the first epistle of Peter where people are clearly compelled to BE HOLY and the context is in regards to their CONDUCT.

We are to be OBEDIENT CHILDREN who are not fashioning ourselves according to the FORMER LUSTS. We are to be holy in ALL MANNER of conduct (the Greek word translated to conversation is more accurately translated conduct in modern English). The context of "be ye holy, for I am holy" relates to CONDUCT.

Yet modern Christianity with its false gospel message has made such a contention as OPTIONAL because they disconnect sanctification from justification.

In the Bible justification is connected to a faith that works by love, love which works no ill. In other words the Bible teaches that the faith that God reckons as righteousness is inclusiveness of FAITHFULNESS TO GOD.

What modern religion does is it redefines faith to merely being TRUST and what has been invented is a perverted view of why Jesus died where the erroneous teaching of "Jesus paid my sin debt in my place" is taught. Thus the issue between man and God that prevents reconciliation is viewed in a purely LEGAL context. The false modern covert thus trusts in this false magic provision where they think that their LEGAL STATUS has been changed (and thus they think they are saved) and then they WAIT ON GOD for Him to do with work in them. In the meanwhile they are still inwardly corrupt and a poor wretched sinner and because everyone else is in the same boat then who can judge for no-one is perfect.

Honestly, modern Christianity is the perfect satanic counterfeit of the real thing. Its adherents call good evil and defend ongoing wickedness.

As for the parable of the publican and the Pharisee...

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

The context is this...

Jas 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Jas 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
Jas 4:10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

In other words the context is REPENTANCE.

The Bible butchers would have people believe that the context is a mere "confession of ongoing wickedness." The Pharisee had a FORM OF GODLINESS in the sense that it was EXTERNAL ONLY ie. "I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess."

Jesus countered that in the Sermon on the Mount where he taught that true righteousness is INTERNAL as opposed to some mere external rule keeping and external works. Paul understood that for he wrote...

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

The Pharisee was contending to God that "I keep the law and am therefore righteous, I am not like these lawbreakers." Law keeping means nothing because someone can do it from all manner of evil motivations.

The publican was coming clean with God in repentance. There is no notion in that parable of the publican continuing in his rebellion to God. The publican was...

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The Pharisee was not coming clean with God. The Pharisee was expounding upon his deeds done according to the law.

The publican was doing this...

Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

The publican was drawing near with a TRUE HEART. In other words he was being HONEST WITH GOD. He was COMING CLEAN with God about what he had done.

Mercy is granted on the condition of...

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

The sin defenders will NEVER quote that verse from proverbs because they deny that confession and forsaking are a requirement for the granting of mercy. They teach a mere confession is enough because they don't believe sin can be forsaken because they think GOD DOES IT ALL as I alluded to previously.

This religious deception is intricate and very layered. One layer supports another layer yet the whole thing can be utterly and easily exposed if one is simply willing to yield to the very plain sayings of Jesus Christ.

HEAR AND DO. Refuse to DO and you will perish in your sins. DOING is your responsibility, not God's.

MikkoAinasoja · Jul 22, 2015

Skinski7 said:

[/B]This is a very interesting statement because it reveals the common error of "God does everything and I do nothing."

Jesus Himself taught that one must HEAR AND DO.

DOING is something that directly involves US.

Look at these words...

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Who is the wise man? It is the one who HEARS the saying of Jesus and then DOES them.

Sanctification is the RESULT of one DOING.

Here is what Paul wrote...

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The main points being...

1. No condemnation for those whom are in Jesus Christ.
2. Those whom are in Jesus Christ abide in the Spirit of life.
3. Walking after the Spirit is connected the righteousness of the law being fulfilled inwardly.

Now look at a saying of Jesus...

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The righteousness of the Pharisees was an outward form only, inwardly they were corrupt...

Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

The Pharisees did not walk after the Spirit and therefore did not have the righteousness of the law fulfilled in them. They may not have outwardly committed adultery or outwardly been engaged in murder but...

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Jesus spoke of an INWARD RIGHTEOUSNESS as opposed to a mere external form of righteousness.

Inward righteousness is the result of HEARING AND DOING for DOING means WALKING ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT BY WHICH RIGHTEOUSNESS IF FULFILLED IN US.

Modern Christianity, in general, has absolutely perverted this concept with its "confess, trust and receive" which we can see reflected in comments like...

Modern religion has removed the necessity of DOING and replaced it with a GOD DOES IT FOR YOU. Thus the modern convert is taught to simply "confess they are a sinner" and "trust in Jesus" whereby they then WAIT for God to do some magic where He changes them. Anyone who comes along contending that WE HAVE TO DO is then labelled as "self righteous" because in their mind such a contention takes away from the "GOD DOING IT FOR YOU" concept.

Yes, it seems that today's christans have made they own religion, where they do not have to be pure, because the Lord is pure.

They say, that trough the Lord, they are pure, and it means that the Lord is pure, but they are filthy, but because they believe in his name, they are pure, and this is sad situation, what face today, because without sanctification, no one will see God, and people's do not even want to come clean for the unrighteousness.

The righteousness will inherit the eternal life in the Lord Yeshua, like it is written, but all unclean and unholy will be banish forever in his brightness.

It is a vital doctrine that we must purify our self, and it means that we have to work against the mind of the flesh, which man have before he mortify it from the Spirit.

The flesh is against the holiness and purify, but no one should not walk according to the flesh, but Spirit.

Mind of the flesh is for death, but mind of the Spirit is for eternal life, in Lord Messiah Yeshua.

Skinski7 · Jul 22, 2015

mpaper345 said:

It is only the sin defenders who bring up this phrase of "sinless perfection."

"Sinless Perfection" is an invented strawman. "Sinless Perfection" is a fiction.

The Bible speaks of a PURE HEART and that is a term that the sin defenders avoid like the plague.

Go through the multitudes of the posts of those whom "attack sinless perfection" and you will NEVER see any mention of HEART PURITY. Never.

They won't use that term because they don't want to deal directly with the truth. It is much easier to attack a strawman.

The Bible says...

Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

The founder of Christianity said that. Blessed are the PURE IN HEART for they shall see God.

Who on Christian Forums contends for that truth?

How many on Christian Forums contends that the PURE IN HEART shall see God?

How many on Christian Forums have a testimony of their hearts having been purified through faith?

Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Anyone?

It is the elephant in the room that so many pretend does not exist.

Skinski7 · Jul 22, 2015

mpaper345 said:

This statement is contending that one serves God in their mind whilst they engage in wickedness with their body. The excuse being that somehow the flesh is corrupt and prevents them from being pure inwardly and outwardly. It is a common misconception resultant from an exposure to modern theology.

Is that contention really Biblical or does it originate through a cunning twisting of the writings of Paul?

We read...

Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Now it is very easy to SNIP that verse from its context and use it as a standalone to defend perpetual ongoing wickedness. Yet is a defence of perpetual ongoing wickedness the true intention of Paul?

No it isn't. Although a defence of ongoing evil sure is a tasty doctrine to buy into for those whom do not wish to forsake evil.

Paul in Romans 7 is speaking to those whom...
Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

Paul is giving a defence of the law in the context that the law brings the knowledge of sin and it is with knowledge that one can sin unto death (ie. rebellion/willful sin).

The point Paul is making that even though the law brings death and condemnation it does not mean the law is a bad thing.

Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

The law was a reflection of what righteousness ought to look like outwardly. Yet with this knowledge came temptation to disregard righteousness and do evil. Thus whilst the law was just and good it brought death to those whom violated it.

Paul then explains how the law cannot save someone whom sins, for the law can only ever address that of the EXTERNAL. The issue of sin is INTERNAL, thus we have the example of a man who is carnal and sold under sin whom is also under the conviction knowing that the law is the right way. This man serves the law in his mind (ie. upholds that it is right) yet in the flesh he continues to do evil.

To advocate that such a wretched man is a Christian is absolutely absurd. One advocating such a view is contending that the salvation of God leaves one in a wicked state, carnal and still a slave to sin. Yet if one loves their sin what better thing could one believe? For they can serve sin and claim that they cannot help it.

Immediately after writing that passage Paul contends that it is the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ which sets us free from the law of sin and death. For true righteousness is fulfilled IN those whom WALK after the Spirit and not the flesh. Thus we are saved through the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ, the implanted word within which saves our souls. In other words, we HEAR AND DO and the result is SALVATION FROM SIN.

Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

True faith necessitates walking after the Spirit which is why the Bible teaches that faith purifies the heart. It is also why the Bible teaches that we are purified through obedience to the truth.

HEARING AND DOING is absolutely essential. Faith is ACTIVE not passive. Salvation is wrought through the ACTIVE DYNAMIC of grace through faith, not some passive dynamic of confess and trust.

"Confess, trust and receive" is the ear tickling and tasty doctrine of the devil by which people can claim to be Christian's and not be DOERS of the will of God. The vast majority of professing Christian's in the modern era belong to this camp and this is why the vast majority of professing Christian's will defend ongoing wickedness as being normal in Christianity. They have absolutely no conception of heart purity and thus no testimony of having been truly purified.

Modern Christianity more closely resembles Gnosticism where salvation is viewed in an intellectual context. Salvation is a mere legal justification whilst manifestly they remain wicked.

True Christianity involves a salvation which is a MANIFEST STATE of inward purity through wholehearted faithfulness to God. By grace we are saved through faith, not of works (deeds done apart from a faith that works by love, a faith that operates in accordance with the grace of God - ie. we are plugged into God), lest any man should boast.

COMMENT TO MPAPER IN REGARDS TO THE FOLLOWING

mpaper345 said:

Do not confuse temptation with sin for that is what you are doing. Temptation is common to man but God will not suffer us to be tempted above that which we can handle.

The term "sinless perfection" is a straw man term used to label the notion of holiness being mandatory. What is not discussed is the issue of the "crucifixion of the flesh with the passions and desires" (Gal 5:24) or the "old man being crucified, the body of sin destroyed, wherefore sin is no longer served" (Rom 6:6-7).

The perversion of the death of Christ into achieving a legal transaction shifts the focus from an inward transaction to the legal transaction as the basis of the Ministry of Reconciliation. Thus an appeal to the inward transformation being mandatory is seen as an infringement on the legal transaction these people believe in.

In your words I see a mix of the errors of modern theology and an attempt to reconcile the scriptures on holiness. I would carefully reflect on some of things you believe which surely muddy the waters in your mind.

Both the doctrine of Original Sin and the Substitutional views of the death of Christ lay at the foundation of the modern false religion which exists predominantly today.

Skinski7 · Jul 22, 2015

MikkoAinasoja said:

Yes, it seems that today's christans have made they own religion, where they do not have to be pure, because the Lord is pure. Yes that is exactly what the teach. They have been deceived into viewing Jesus as their substitute instead of their example. Jesus died on our behalf in order to put into effect the New Covenant, He did not die as a substitute to appease the wrath of God like many would like to believe.

They say, that trough the Lord, they are pure, and it means that the Lord is pure, but they are filthy, but because they believe in his name, they are pure, and this is sad situation, what face today, because without sanctification, no one will see God, and people's do not even want to come clean for the unrighteousness. They disconnect Justification from Sanctification because in their mind Justification is a LEGAL TRANSACTION disconnected from the true condition of the heart. Thus they believe that a wicked heart can be justified PRIOR to the heart being purified. They view sanctification as the gradual purification process. Thus they will always argue in favour of ongoing wickedness in salvation.

The righteousness will inherit the eternal life in the Lord Yeshua, like it is written, but all unclean and unholy will be banish forever in his brightness. Amen.

It is a vital doctrine that we must purify our self, and it means that we have to work against the mind of the flesh, which man have before he mortify it from the Spirit. YES INDEED. We must HEAR AND DO.

The flesh is against the holiness and purify, but no one should not walk according to the flesh, but Spirit. Yes. We are to bring our flesh into subjection to the Spirit. To do otherwise to perish in carnality.

Mind of the flesh is for death, but mind of the Spirit is for eternal life, in Lord Messiah Yeshua.

My comments in blue.

BarlyGurl · Jul 22, 2015

>>>The point Paul is making that even though the law brings death and condemnation it does not mean the law is a bad thing.<<<

Thank you for this little nugget! the articulation is so simple, I am kinda embarrassed at myself for being of the habit of making it so much more complicated!

convallaria · Jul 22, 2015

MikkoAinasoja said:

Oooooooooooohhhhhhhhh I get it. You are addressing the wide road of Christianity as opposed to the narrow road of truth and life in Christ.

If I can encourage you, Jesus said "I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevent it" ...which probably means you are not looking in the right place for the true church...if you are looking at all.

VioletReigns · Jul 22, 2015

Skinski7 said:

[/B]This is a very interesting statement because it reveals the common error of "God does everything and I do nothing."

Jesus Himself taught that one must HEAR AND DO.

DOING is something that directly involves US.

Look at these words...

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Who is the wise man? It is the one who HEARS the saying of Jesus and then DOES them.

Sanctification is the RESULT of one DOING.

Here is what Paul wrote...

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The main points being...

1. No condemnation for those whom are in Jesus Christ.
2. Those whom are in Jesus Christ abide in the Spirit of life.
3. Walking after the Spirit is connected the righteousness of the law being fulfilled inwardly.

Now look at a saying of Jesus...

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The righteousness of the Pharisees was an outward form only, inwardly they were corrupt...

Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

The Pharisees did not walk after the Spirit and therefore did not have the righteousness of the law fulfilled in them. They may not have outwardly committed adultery or outwardly been engaged in murder but...

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Jesus spoke of an INWARD RIGHTEOUSNESS as opposed to a mere external form of righteousness.

Inward righteousness is the result of HEARING AND DOING for DOING means WALKING ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT BY WHICH RIGHTEOUSNESS IF FULFILLED IN US.

Modern Christianity, in general, has absolutely perverted this concept with its "confess, trust and receive" which we can see reflected in comments like...

Modern religion has removed the necessity of DOING and replaced it with a GOD DOES IT FOR YOU. Thus the modern convert is taught to simply "confess they are a sinner" and "trust in Jesus" whereby they then WAIT for God to do some magic where He changes them. Anyone who comes along contending that WE HAVE TO DO is then labelled as "self righteous" because in their mind such a contention takes away from the "GOD DOING IT FOR YOU" concept.

All of that long-winded, excruciatingly drawn out grey picture of drudgery and self-righteousness..... ugh!

That's abundant life to you, huh? *yuck*

I refrain from debating with you as its obvious you're quite content being self-righteous and thinking you earn God's grace.

Just remember: Jesus will NOT say, "Depart from me, you don't know me."

But He will say, "Depart from Me, I don't know you."

moonbeam · Jul 22, 2015

God is holy therefore be holy .

BarlyGurl · Jul 22, 2015

VioletReigns said:

From my perspective, this looks like Violet denies the scripture whilst asserting to be "debating" Skinski.
Christ does not dwell in us, he is right now seated in the heavenlies, at the right hand of God ever making intercession for us, who ever is twice-born has been given the "cloak" of Christ's atoning blood for our past sins and given the indwelling Holy Spirit who guides and directs us in all truth. We CAN ignore the HS and be carnal and continue to sin (which will bring death), but we don't have to... it is God the father who uses circumstances to chasten us, the HS who convicts us (in our hearts) of error sin and causes us to REPENT (agree with GOD and therefore do) which is the sanctification process... "running the race on the narrow road which leads to eternal life".

Skinski7 · Jul 22, 2015

VioletReigns said:

Like many on here you paint something with a broad brush without engagement and then simply dismiss it.

VioletReigns said:

You cannot debate with me because you would be debating against simple and obvious truth. The Bible speaks of "heart purity" and "hear and do" and to address those statements would expose any critique you have as fallacious. It is much easier to dismiss what I wrote out of hand by reinterpreting it as...

VioletReigns said:

It is not "self-righteous" to contend for righteousness. The Bible contends for righteousness from cover to cover. Noah was a preacher of righteousness, so was Jesus, and so were all His followers. Christianity itself embodies contending for righteousness. Many don't like that because righteousness is a standard they do not want to attain.

VioletReigns said:

Jesus also said...

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The people whom Jesus never knew were WORKERS OF INIQUITY.

The word translated as "work" in English is...

ergazomai
Middle voice from G2041; to toil (as a task, occupation, etc.), (by implication) effect, be engaged in or with, etc.: - commit, do, labor for, minister about, trade (by), work.

In other words those whom Jesus is rejected are the people who are engaged in evil deeds. That would make perfect sense because...

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

It is the DOERS of righteousness whom are righteous. It is the DOERS of evil whom are evil. Don't be deceived otherwise John warns us.

"Doeth" in the Greek is "poieō" and it is a reference to DEEDS, a reference to conduct, a reference to that which we DO.

John taught that the children of God and the children of the devil are both MANIFEST in what they do...

Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

It is the DOERS of righteousness that are of God. The religious people God rejects in Matthew 7 are WORKERS OF INIQUITY as opposed to be DOERS OF THE WILL OF GOD.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Furthermore Jesus even clarifies...

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Ought the contending for HEARING AND DOING really be described as "yuck"? I do not think that is a wise position to hold.

Skinski7 · Jul 22, 2015

BarlyGurl said:

Yes, chastisement has to do with sins we do in ignorance for which we need correction. Thus we grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Many twist sanctification into meaning "sinning less" in a context of "rebelling less." Jesus did not die so we can rebel less, He died that we may be cleansed of our past rebellion as we are reconciled to God through the New Covenant. To purposefully defy God after this takes place is to treat the blood of the covenant with utter contempt as if it can be used as a license to sin and therefore be cleansed over and over. That attitude which many have is damnable.

You see many people view the blood of Jesus in the context of effecting a PROVISION by which their "sin debt was paid in full." They view their sin debt in a similar vain to a traffic fine which is owed and thus therefore be paid in full. They think Jesus paid the fine on their behalf and thus the fine cannot be held over them anymore. Is it any wonder that these people think they can sin with impunity?

The issue between man and God is not legal. The issue relates to the HEART. Reconciliation with God is not possible without a total transformation of the heart of the sinner. To enter into the New Covenant necessitates a heart transformation and thus that which causes enmity between man and God is taken care of (ie. carnal mind is enmity with God). The other problem between man and God is the guilt of sin, one simply cannot stand in the face of the Holy Creator with the guilt of sin upon their conscience, one cannot serve God in good conscience in such a state. God has solved this issue through the means of the New Covenant of which we enter into, receiving pardon whilst at the same time have ZERO INTENTION to ever rebel against God ever again. Thus upon being cleansed there is no concept of easy forgiveness whereby one can simply appeal for mercy again (which is why David refers to a "spirit without guile" (Psalm 32) as it relates to God not imputing iniquity to the faithful). We truly relish in the mercy of a fresh start being granted and faithfully uphold the grace, mercy and righteousness of God in our hearts. The Old Covenant could never do this because it was totally external in all facets, there was no new and living way in approaching God, it was purely ritualistic and thus could never effect a purging of dead works.

Skinski7 · Jul 22, 2015

VioletReigns said:

Not a single person in this thread has said anything about EARNING God's grace.

The grace of God is freely given to all people. Salvation is related to what we do with that grace.

Do we work together with God (ie. HEAR AND DO) whereby we are made the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ?

Or do we despise the grace of God and refuse to cooperate with God (HEAR AND DO NOT?

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
2Co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

Those whom do the latter (refuse to work together with God) receive the grace of God in vain.

The accusation of "earning God's grace" is another simplified STRAWMAN which many who defend ongoing wickedness in the Christian walk resort to frequently.

The only people who are made the righteousness of God in Him are those whom WALK after the Spirit.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Skinski7 · Jul 22, 2015

Those whom walk after the flesh (ie. they yield to fleshly lusts and do evil) will die.

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Whilst those whom mortify their fleshly lusts and walk according to the Spirit will live.

Those are the two roads we can take.

Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

The above is another passage which the sin defenders totally disregard for it clearly teaches that what we actually DO matters.

Be holy

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