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C
.....and the Word of God said the law is not difficult cf Deuteronomy 30:11 which is quoted by Paul in the letter to the Romans thus the harshness of the law was created by some of the Jews (read Pharisees and scribes) and is today by some Christians - or it would contradict to Psalm 119 which David wrote under the inspiration of the Spirit.
H
We're clearly speaking of different commandments. The legalists here preach works of the law, although their focus is mainly on just the 10 commandments.
BUT, the commandments Jesus referred to is believe on him (John 3:16) and love one another (John 13:34).
1John 3:22,23
And whatsoever we ask , we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
In believing on Jesus, our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
To love one another means that we do no ill to another. This also means we show the same love/grace to others as God showed to us. We forgive 7x70. I think most would agree that in this imperfect physical world we live in, forgiveness shows love.
And note how the Sabbath and dietary laws are not listed in his commandments.
But legalists preach the law/10 commandments, instead. On forums we see 2 different positions from legalists.
One group preaches that some unspecified, ambiguous minimum standard of obedience to the law is required as proof that one has "imparted" righteousness/salvation.
The other group claim that perfect obedience to the law is required as proof of one has "imparted" righteousness/salvation.
Both these types of legalists are mixing works of the law with grace. Both these types of legalists preach the ministry of condemnation/death, written and engraved in stones, 2Cor 3:7. Such doctrines contradict scripture, Rom 11:6.
Christians keep his commandments, as described above.
Legalists however, are the disobedient.
What is God's will?
John 6:40
And this is the will of Him that sent me,that every one which seeth the Son,
and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Legalists reject God's will. They reject His promise of everlasting life when we believe on Jesus.
How?
They preach that unless one attains some minimum standard of obedience to the law as proof of "imparted" righteousness, then such are not saved. In other words, they say that faith (believing God's promise of eternal life when we believe on Jesus) is not counted for righteousness unless there is works of the law as proof.
That's correct.
And what works are these?
Jesus was asked what works we should do (John 6:28).
He answered, "believe on him whom He hath sent", John 6:29.
Now note Gal 3:12. "The law is not of faith".
Yet for the legalists, they reject God's word and instead claim that the law is of faith.
And thus, by their works of the law they deny God (Tit 1:16) and make themselves a transgressor/Sinner (Gal 2:18).
Leglalists are like the man described in James 1:23,24
For if any be a hearer of the word (gospel of Christ), and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way , and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was
Christians are righteous (Rom 4:5), Holy (Rom 11:16), complete (Col 2:10), perfected (Heb 10:14) in Christ. When we believe on Jesus we have all this, in Christ.
But legalists forget what manner of man they were in Christ. Thus being hearers only, and not doers of the word (gospel of Christ) they mix works of the law with grace to attain/prove righteousness, holiness, perfection.
Faith without works is dead. If you're mixing works of the law with grace, then those dead works show that you deny God.
Legalists need to repent and believe on Jesus.
BUT, the commandments Jesus referred to is believe on him (John 3:16) and love one another (John 13:34).
1John 3:22,23
And whatsoever we ask , we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
In believing on Jesus, our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5.
To love one another means that we do no ill to another. This also means we show the same love/grace to others as God showed to us. We forgive 7x70. I think most would agree that in this imperfect physical world we live in, forgiveness shows love.
And note how the Sabbath and dietary laws are not listed in his commandments.
But legalists preach the law/10 commandments, instead. On forums we see 2 different positions from legalists.
One group preaches that some unspecified, ambiguous minimum standard of obedience to the law is required as proof that one has "imparted" righteousness/salvation.
The other group claim that perfect obedience to the law is required as proof of one has "imparted" righteousness/salvation.
Both these types of legalists are mixing works of the law with grace. Both these types of legalists preach the ministry of condemnation/death, written and engraved in stones, 2Cor 3:7. Such doctrines contradict scripture, Rom 11:6.
Christians keep his commandments, as described above.
Legalists however, are the disobedient.
What is God's will?
John 6:40
And this is the will of Him that sent me,that every one which seeth the Son,
and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Legalists reject God's will. They reject His promise of everlasting life when we believe on Jesus.
How?
They preach that unless one attains some minimum standard of obedience to the law as proof of "imparted" righteousness, then such are not saved. In other words, they say that faith (believing God's promise of eternal life when we believe on Jesus) is not counted for righteousness unless there is works of the law as proof.
That's correct.
And what works are these?
Jesus was asked what works we should do (John 6:28).
He answered, "believe on him whom He hath sent", John 6:29.
Now note Gal 3:12. "The law is not of faith".
Yet for the legalists, they reject God's word and instead claim that the law is of faith.
And thus, by their works of the law they deny God (Tit 1:16) and make themselves a transgressor/Sinner (Gal 2:18).
Leglalists are like the man described in James 1:23,24
For if any be a hearer of the word (gospel of Christ), and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way , and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was
Christians are righteous (Rom 4:5), Holy (Rom 11:16), complete (Col 2:10), perfected (Heb 10:14) in Christ. When we believe on Jesus we have all this, in Christ.
But legalists forget what manner of man they were in Christ. Thus being hearers only, and not doers of the word (gospel of Christ) they mix works of the law with grace to attain/prove righteousness, holiness, perfection.
Faith without works is dead. If you're mixing works of the law with grace, then those dead works show that you deny God.
Legalists need to repent and believe on Jesus.
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I agree that to obey only without spirit and truth is not the way scripture tells us to obey. What I disagree with is the judgment of man to say that all obedience that man does is only legalistically. Only God knows the heart. If you would take out your judgment of others in your thinking and leave the judgment of what others do in God's hand, you would know what God tells us about what how keeping the law and how God operates the world we live in works together.
Scripture tells us about legalistic obedience, what it is and how to avoid it, but scripture does not say that all obedience is only legalistic obedience.
Scripture tells us about legalistic obedience, what it is and how to avoid it, but scripture does not say that all obedience is only legalistic obedience.
2
Funny thread!
Beware JEsus?
wow
JEsus was a lawabiding citizen of heaven and he wants us to follow him!
We must do everything by faith
if it is not of faith it is sin
faith is hearing and doing every word of the Bible
if you cast out part of the Bible you have only partial faith
Everything must be by faith
if you invent something that is not in the Bible and do it, it is self righteousness
(self doing what you think is right)
when you do what the Bible says it is Christ's righteousnes
(Christ's doing what is right, God knows, it is his word
beware Jesus!
how funny
Psa 119:9 BETH. Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.
Psa 119:151 Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jesus is the righteosness of the commandments
Hear ye hear ye
All ye who would nail the commandments to the tree
would nail christ's righteousness (his law) to the tree
would again nail christ to the tree
Beware JEsus?
wow
JEsus was a lawabiding citizen of heaven and he wants us to follow him!
We must do everything by faith
if it is not of faith it is sin
faith is hearing and doing every word of the Bible
if you cast out part of the Bible you have only partial faith
Everything must be by faith
if you invent something that is not in the Bible and do it, it is self righteousness
(self doing what you think is right)
when you do what the Bible says it is Christ's righteousnes
(Christ's doing what is right, God knows, it is his word
beware Jesus!
how funny
Psa 119:9 BETH. Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.
Psa 119:151 Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jesus is the righteosness of the commandments
Hear ye hear ye
All ye who would nail the commandments to the tree
would nail christ's righteousness (his law) to the tree
would again nail christ to the tree
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2
noah had faith!
He did every nail that God told him to do
he built the boat just like God told him and he lived
the once saved always saved crowd didnt build a boat.
Why, God is too good to destroy the earth and all us christians just because we do things differently
naoh is a fanatic
in fact he is tickking us off
hey this is about enough
120 years of this silliness
lets go burn him out of the ark
yeah
lts go!
BOOM what is that?
whats the lights hitting the grond and rain?
what?
aheat? whats goi on?
then non boat builders who had too much faith didnt make it
They thought the boat was a piritual boat
so the spiritually drowned in spiritual water.
if you dont follow the Bible you have not faith
He did every nail that God told him to do
he built the boat just like God told him and he lived
the once saved always saved crowd didnt build a boat.
Why, God is too good to destroy the earth and all us christians just because we do things differently
naoh is a fanatic
in fact he is tickking us off
hey this is about enough
120 years of this silliness
lets go burn him out of the ark
yeah
lts go!
BOOM what is that?
whats the lights hitting the grond and rain?
what?
aheat? whats goi on?
then non boat builders who had too much faith didnt make it
They thought the boat was a piritual boat
so the spiritually drowned in spiritual water.
if you dont follow the Bible you have not faith
2
Justification is forgiveness of all past sin
sanctification is keeping the commandments by Jesus grace
you need both
or you will never see God
promise.
it is true
manychristians believed a false gospel and false definition of faith and grace
the Bible definition of faith ad grace is rejected, so they cant see anything but their traditions of men.
sanctification is keeping the commandments by Jesus grace
you need both
or you will never see God
promise.
it is true
manychristians believed a false gospel and false definition of faith and grace
the Bible definition of faith ad grace is rejected, so they cant see anything but their traditions of men.
2
Nicolatins
ever heard that term?
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.
NICOLAITIANS means LAWLESS ONES
the ones who say there is no more law
and they dont have to do anything more like they used to since Jesus died....
sound familiar?
ever heard that term?
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.
NICOLAITIANS means LAWLESS ONES
the ones who say there is no more law
and they dont have to do anything more like they used to since Jesus died....
sound familiar?
H
The thief on the cross who called Jesus "Lord" did not do any works of keeping the law/10 commandments. Yet he is in paradise with Christ.
BUT, according to what you say above, that thief is dead because he had no works of the law.
You contradict what Jesus said to that thief.
That thief on the cross is God's example to us that we're saved by grace, and not be works of the law.
BUT, according to what you say above, that thief is dead because he had no works of the law.
You contradict what Jesus said to that thief.
That thief on the cross is God's example to us that we're saved by grace, and not be works of the law.
Maybe you are misunderstanding our position. well Ill speak for myself. Just because We keep the 10 commandments does not mean we think we are saved by keeping them.
The thief on the cross proves that Salvation is based not in works of the law but in Faith in Jesus.
That does not negate the fact that had He lived His Faith would have brought forth the fruit of obedience. How do I know this? because His faith in Christ would have imputed Christ's righteousness to him and this righteousness of Christ transforms us into a new creature.
We know He had this Faith because Christ declared that He was saved.
The thief on the cross proves that Salvation is based not in works of the law but in Faith in Jesus.
That does not negate the fact that had He lived His Faith would have brought forth the fruit of obedience. How do I know this? because His faith in Christ would have imputed Christ's righteousness to him and this righteousness of Christ transforms us into a new creature.
We know He had this Faith because Christ declared that He was saved.
H
Actually it's God who says there is no more law. Instead it's our faith that is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5
Rom 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death
Rom 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth
Gal 3:24,25
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come , we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Your accusation of lawlessness applies only to legalists, as they're under the law and fail to keep it perfectly. Just one offence makes you guilty of all the law, James 2:10.
Rom 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith , it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped , and all the world may become guilty before God.
As it's the legalists who are under the law, then its they who are into lawlessness (guilty of all the law).
Legalists makes themselves a sinner.
Gal 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of the law) , I make myself a transgressor/Sinner.
Legalists should repent of their dead works and believe on Jesus instead.
Rom 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death
Rom 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth
Gal 3:24,25
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come , we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Your accusation of lawlessness applies only to legalists, as they're under the law and fail to keep it perfectly. Just one offence makes you guilty of all the law, James 2:10.
Rom 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith , it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped , and all the world may become guilty before God.
As it's the legalists who are under the law, then its they who are into lawlessness (guilty of all the law).
Legalists makes themselves a sinner.
Gal 2:18
For if I build again the things which I destroyed (righteousness by works of the law) , I make myself a transgressor/Sinner.
Legalists should repent of their dead works and believe on Jesus instead.
Pharisee or police, one dose it, because god told them, a laws and degrees, and one dose it for the pay, and having a career. yet there are laws, to the law of the land too.
co 13 and now these three remain, faith, hope and love. but the greatest of these is love.
only if blind, eyes could see. and deaf ears hear. what jesus christ did for them, that believe in him.
co 13 and now these three remain, faith, hope and love. but the greatest of these is love.
only if blind, eyes could see. and deaf ears hear. what jesus christ did for them, that believe in him.
H
Hi gotime, old friend. We meet again
I realize that you're not saying that you think your saved by keeping the law/10 commandments.
My issue is with the claim of legalists that say the same as you say above, BUT then also add that obedience to the law is required as proof one has "imparted" righteousness and salvation.
Gotime, what does the doctrine you follow say about the many Christians here who do not keep the Saturday Sabbath?
I realize that you're not saying that you think your saved by keeping the law/10 commandments.
My issue is with the claim of legalists that say the same as you say above, BUT then also add that obedience to the law is required as proof one has "imparted" righteousness and salvation.
Gotime, what does the doctrine you follow say about the many Christians here who do not keep the Saturday Sabbath?
I have studied this. In general, the fire was strange because Nadab, and Abihu did something that was not according to the instructions of proper worship. They added their own doctrine that was against God's doctrine. Here are my findings.
Nadab And Abihu
Nadab And Abihu
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