Calvinism vs. Arminianism?

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Sep 9, 2018
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You decide who Christ died for and tell me who they were, but the scripture says all that he died for will live in heaven with him without the lose of even one. So then, either all mankind will be in heaven or only those he died for will be in heaven. Which is it in your mind?
I thought the "P" in TULIP stood for preservation of the saints. I was under the impression that that meant eternal security, but only those that your capricious god doesn't elect to reprobation?
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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I thought the "P" in TULIP stood for preservation of the saints. I was under the impression that that meant eternal security, but only those that your capricious god doesn't elect to reprobation?
I am still scratching my head! I do not think you answered my question, could you explain it a little further, so a dumb guy like me can understand your answer, if it was an answer?
 
Sep 9, 2018
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I am still scratching my head! I do not think you answered my question, could you explain it a little further, so a dumb guy like me can understand your answer, if it was an answer?
All you people want is for us to tell you why or what we believe so you can chuckle and shake your head at our sad simplicity in pretending to be intelligent. I have no intention of telling you what you already know - instead I deliver you unto God for judgment. I can only pray that it will be immediate. In the meantime, it would be wonderful if He overrules me and delivers you from the clutches of Satan, but he has tricked you into believing you have no choice but in reality you are exercising your free will to reject God's Word through doublespeak.

Praise God it is because I am NOT intelligent that I can trust God's Word with my simple childlike faith when I came to Him back in 1976 (using my free will) to be saved.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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All you people want is for us to tell you why or what we believe so you can chuckle and shake your head at our sad simplicity in pretending to be intelligent. I have no intention of telling you what you already know - instead I deliver you unto God for judgment. I can only pray that it will be immediate. In the meantime, it would be wonderful if He overrules me and delivers you from the clutches of Satan, but he has tricked you into believing you have no choice but in reality you are exercising your free will to reject God's Word through doublespeak.

Praise God it is because I am NOT intelligent that I can trust God's Word with my simple childlike faith when I came to Him back in 1976 (using my free will) to be saved.
It seems to me that you are not on this forum for the right reason that the forum was set up for. It was my thinking that it was set up to discuss scripture with scripture instead of making a statement of what you think is wrong with someones belief without backing your statement up with your scriptural proof why you think his belief is wrong, otherwise this would cease to be a bible discussion forum.
 
Sep 9, 2018
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otherwise this would cease to be a bible discussion forum.
You Calvinists stopped discussing a long time ago . . . and started to attack the messengers rather than the message. One can only tell you so many times the truth of God's universal call to sinners only to be rebuffed. It is you that have hardened your heart to grace - and have told God that you are not interested in anything He has to offer unless it agrees with you sovereign will.

God ain't play that, homey!
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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All you people want is for us to tell you why or what we believe so you can chuckle and shake your head at our sad simplicity in pretending to be intelligent. I have no intention of telling you what you already know - instead I deliver you unto God for judgment. I can only pray that it will be immediate. In the meantime, it would be wonderful if He overrules me and delivers you from the clutches of Satan, but he has tricked you into believing you have no choice but in reality you are exercising your free will to reject God's Word through doublespeak.

Praise God it is because I am NOT intelligent that I can trust God's Word with my simple childlike faith when I came to Him back in 1976 (using my free will) to be saved.
It would be a lot simpler if you would learn to rightly divide the salvation (deliverance) scriptures and apply most of them as pertaining to a deliverance (salvation) we receive here on earth and not eternal. Without learning to do that you will never be able to harmonize the scriptures. You were already eternally saved (delivered) before you came to God back in 1976 and when you repented and came to him, he delivered (saved) you right then and there from the quilt and burden of the sins that you just repented of. The natural man, described in 1 Cor 2:14, who cannot discern spiritual things would have never came to God. Many of God's children do not understand the difference between being born again and being converted to the truth. Conversion comes after the new birth.
 
Sep 9, 2018
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It would be a lot simpler if you would learn to rightly divide the salvation (deliverance) scriptures and apply most of them as pertaining to a deliverance (salvation) we receive here on earth and not eternal. Without learning to do that you will never be able to harmonize the scriptures. You were already eternally saved (delivered) before you came to God back in 1976 and when you repented and came to him, he delivered (saved) you right then and there from the quilt and burden of the sins that you just repented of. The natural man, described in 1 Cor 2:14, who cannot discern spiritual things would have never came to God. Many of God's children do not understand the difference between being born again and being converted to the truth. Conversion comes after the new birth.
Oh man! You mean I'll never be a Calvinist? Oh well, that's cool.

Tell you what I do want though, to be approved of God.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
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You are free to report your suspicions to the moderators. If you believe that I am preaching a false gospel they can ban me.
Most all of us on this forum are preaching a different gospel. That is the basis of the forum. I doubt that they would take action on anyone that is defending their beliefs.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Calvinist challenge:

Show me a verse that says God predestinates every single thing and I will "convert" to calvinism in a heart beat.
Show me a verse that says we have no free will (despite the word being used in the bible many times, btw) and I will "convert" to calvinism in a heart beat
Matthew 20:28 even as the Son of Man did not come to be ministered to, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.'

( Not one less or ne more)

John 1:12 but as many as did receive him to them he gave authority to become sons of God -- to those believing in his name,

John 16:15All things, as many as the Father hath, are mine; because of this I said, That of mine He will take, and will tell to you;

Acts 2:39 for to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all those afar off, as many as the Lord our God shall call.'

Acts 13:48 And the nations hearing were glad, and were glorifying the word of the Lord, and did believe -- as many as were appointed to life age-during;

it would beg the question why?

John 6:65-66 and he said, `Because of this I have said to you -- No one is able to come unto me, if it may not have been given him from my Father.' From this [time] many of his disciples went away backward, and were no more walking with him,

I would ask how many disciples today refuse to walk by faith the unseen word?
 
Dec 28, 2016
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Never try to defiine what a Calvinist believes when you don't really know yourself. I was in a conservative baptist church for several years. So I KNOW what baptists believe and they are close to Calvinism but close does not count. Have to enter by the narrow gate because the broad road leads to destruction.
Nope, sorry, Baptists aren't close to Calvinism. They're semi-Pelagian at best.
 

Hevosmies

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Sep 8, 2018
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Never try to defiine what a Calvinist believes when you don't really know yourself. I was in a conservative baptist church for several years. So I KNOW what baptists believe and they are close to Calvinism but close does not count. Have to enter by the narrow gate because the broad road leads to destruction.
So you gotta be a calvinist to be saved?

Ridicilous
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Notice that most of these verses mention specific events that God predestinated and foreknew. (like the crucifixion of Jesus etc.)
You cannot predestinate huge historical events without predestinating billions of small details that lead to it. Think about that.

If you watch some sci-fi movies with time travel, you know what I mean. Things like "if your parents had not met that evening..."
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
KJV Romans 9:18-23

18. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20. Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21. Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22. What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23. And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

As you have probably noticed?
It is a doctrine of devils . . . I condemn it and the god behind it (II Corinthians 4:4).
Isaiah 5
18 Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope:
19 That say, Let him make speed, and hasten his work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it!
20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

2 Peter 3
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they WILLINGLY are IGNORANT of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE wrest, as they DO ALSO the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But GROW IN GRACE, and in the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

I am sad that the enemy has hardened your heart, thus limiting your discernment to that which seems good in your own eyes! Perhaps? God has allowed this, so that which is preserved IN Christ? MAY remain in Christ!
I, myself? Don't know! Is above my pay grade! Sadder still, am I, that there is very much company like yourself! :cry:


Just know, I shall struggle AGAINST such principalities whenever, and where ever I find them! As per the ORDER of Melchizadek!

There is NONE that walk on 2 feet, and "suck air" MORE DANGEROUS? then, a deceived man/woman!
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
You cannot predestinate huge historical events without predestinating billions of small details that lead to it. Think about that.

If you watch some sci-fi movies with time travel, you know what I mean. Things like "if your parents had not met that evening..."

I agree with ya trofimus! Having children IS hereditary! If your parents didn't have children? NEITHER are you! :p:p:p
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
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As you have probably noticed?


Isaiah 5
18 Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope:
19 That say, Let him make speed, and hasten his work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it!
20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
21 Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

2 Peter 3
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they WILLINGLY are IGNORANT of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are UNLEARNED AND UNSTABLE wrest, as they DO ALSO the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But GROW IN GRACE, and in the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

I am sad that the enemy has hardened your heart, thus limiting your discernment to that which seems good in your own eyes! Perhaps? God has allowed this, so that which is preserved IN Christ? MAY remain in Christ!
I, myself? Don't know! Is above my pay grade! Sadder still, am I, that there is very much company like yourself! :cry:


Just know, I shall struggle AGAINST such principalities whenever, and where ever I find them! As per the ORDER of Melchizadek!

There is NONE that walk on 2 feet, and "suck air" MORE DANGEROUS? then, a deceived man/woman!
I don't read her long harangues....it is what it is. She needs to remember that the tongue is a fire, and using scripture out of context to deny other scripture is the worst kind of apostasy.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
There are also verses on the other side like the ones you have posted, and verses that say God gives people delusion or thoughts to do something sinful.
Revelation 17:17 is a good example of this:
"For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled."

Now we all agree that giving your kingdom unto the beast is a SIN, right? Well how come God here is putting it in their hearts to fulfill his will?

I believe this is the reason why the debate between free will and predestination, open theism and determinism will continue until the Lord returns.

Tis easier to understand our Heavenly Father's Loving Kindness, which endures FOREVER, in His (how can I say it?) causing His "children" to sin, which IS FORGIVABLE! And, in doing such PREVENTS them from committing a sin which is NOT Forgivable! Not in THIS age! NOR, the age to come!
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
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I thought the "P" in TULIP stood for preservation of the saints. I was under the impression that that meant eternal security, but only those that your capricious god doesn't elect to reprobation?
EXACTLY, some to glory some to destruction. I think you got it!

Eternal means time past and time present and time future. ERGO: eternal life is from time past, is IN time present and is forever in time future.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
I don't read her long harangues....it is what it is. She needs to remember that the tongue is a fire, and using scripture out of context to deny other scripture is the worst kind of apostasy.

I realized "the error" I made after I posted my reply! It wasn't intended for you. But, due to my being "technologically challenged", to which I offer no apology for (I WON'T own a "smart phone" either! FWIW), it's the "splitting" of the replies that "tripped" me up. :p

It was to that BibleBaptistBeliever feller, I was actually replying to!