can a christiain lose their salvation

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
1

1still_waters

Guest
Re: once saved always saved???

There is already a thread on this that's only eight hours old.l I'm merging your post with it, to avoid redundancy.
 

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
829
8
18
You leave out to believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead. Which I believe can only happen truely in the heart of a person born of God. The spirit of truth witnesses to their soul this fact and quickens them giving them eternal life.

Jesus said God was seeking those who would worship Him in spirit and truth. You see examples of Jesus in the Gospels withdrawing Himself from the multitudes when they were following Him as a sign doer or a bread multiplier. You see that alot today in the seeker friendly message. Promising people that Jesus will fix their lives, bless them, etc.. You can just look at the best selling christian books today, Your best life now, and the like. There are many wrong reasons that people profess Jesus Lord, finiancial blessing is one, a sense of moral superiority another.

I believe the Gospel of John and first John explain pretty well how a person of can have assurance of salvation, that being that it is God who is the keeper of their salvation. A person's salvation being a great display of God's glory in His character being shown by His work in a person whom God presents to His Son as a perfect bride. God can accomplish all that He pleases since He is God ya know?

All that the Father gives Him will come to Him, and the one who comes to Him He will by no means cast out. :)

Praise the Lord!
 
C

Consumed

Guest
You leave out to believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead. Which I believe can only happen truely in the heart of a person born of God. The spirit of truth witnesses to their soul this fact and quickens them giving them eternal life.

Jesus said God was seeking those who would worship Him in spirit and truth. You see examples of Jesus in the Gospels withdrawing Himself from the multitudes when they were following Him as a sign doer or a bread multiplier. You see that alot today in the seeker friendly message. Promising people that Jesus will fix their lives, bless them, etc.. You can just look at the best selling christian books today, Your best life now, and the like. There are many wrong reasons that people profess Jesus Lord, finiancial blessing is one, a sense of moral superiority another.

I believe the Gospel of John and first John explain pretty well how a person of can have assurance of salvation, that being that it is God who is the keeper of their salvation. A person's salvation being a great display of God's glory in His character being shown by His work in a person whom God presents to His Son as a perfect bride. God can accomplish all that He pleases since He is God ya know?

All that the Father gives Him will come to Him, and the one who comes to Him He will by no means cast out. :)

Praise the Lord!

comes back to though Jesus saying "begone unfaithful servant" who ?? they cast out demons, etc, surely they were like the pharasies, knew the scriptures, went to church, bible classes etc, lost salvation along the way. No Mercy No love No Justice.
 
S

ShelleBelle76

Guest
Galatians 5:19-21

"Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

He is speaking to the church, so I assume this applies to everyone, saved or otherwise?
 

worldlover

Senior Member
Mar 2, 2009
322
2
0
everyone can lose salvation if they will turn against God but this verse would help us to avoid that:














2 Peter 3:17-18 "I am warning you ahead of time, dear friends. Be on guard so that you will not be carried away by the errors of these wicked people and lose your own secure footing. Rather, you must grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.​
All glory to him, both now and forever! Amen."​
 
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
0
everyone can lose salvation if they will turn against God but this verse would help us to avoid that:

Actually when I became a Christian I pleaded with God to keep me, knowing the natural sinful person I was. I erred and went away, but I believe he answered my prayer when he brought me back. I believe much of this debate comes down to was the conversion a sincere one?

And I heartily agree that just knowing the Bible is not enough. The people who knew the then Bible in Jesus day better than anyone had him crucified. They knew the letter but not the heart
 
C

Consumed

Guest
everyone can lose salvation if they will turn against God but this verse would help us to avoid that:

Actually when I became a Christian I pleaded with God to keep me, knowing the natural sinful person I was. I erred and went away, but I believe he answered my prayer when he brought me back. I believe much of this debate comes down to was the conversion a sincere one?

And I heartily agree that just knowing the Bible is not enough. The people who knew the then Bible in Jesus day better than anyone had him crucified. They knew the letter but not the heart

amen bro,with their mouth they confess, yet their hearts are far away, hence one must believe in their heart and confess with their mouth, go hand in hand.

 
D

deadtalk

Guest
1 John 2:19

Were they ever saved?

Do we produce fruit every second of every day?
Is there a difference in God's eyes between a second and 10 years?

Salvation is between a man (or woman) and God. I don't even have the liberty to judge another irregardless of how it seems or appears. Besides there are times where I (and many others may agree) don't 'feel' saved. I only know this, those that are will be brought to completion in Christ because of Christ irregardless of their circumstances; one may conclude that sanctification is also a gift of God as salvation is in that neither are based on one's actions or inactions but rather faith (trust) in Christ that dictates one's actions or inactions (but even then to what extent? Does maturity in Christ play a role? If a person lives 10 minutes with no actions or inactions beneficial to God are they to be called fruitless? If a person lives 2 years with no actions or inactions beneficial to God are they to be called fruitless? Surely it can judged by their fruit whether they are fit for any type of position of authority or leadership, but liberty to judge the soul? (that is without knowledge such as a confession from their own mouth saying they do not)).

So why ask the question if a 'Christian' can lose their salvation?

For those that believe that way, I understand why they would ask.

As I would understand why satan would ask, he would like nothing more than the believer to doubt their salvation. In doing so they would take their eyes off of God's grace and shift them onto themselves, leading to guilt, shame and even separation from other believers. Isolation is one of satan's greatest tatics.

I can imagine that some may use the idea that a 'Christian' can lose his/her salvation as an excuse to judge one's salvation. Or to puff one's self up likewise.

And of course, there are people who don't know.

But why is the original poster asking this? Or anyone else who does? No need to type it out, just something to consider.
 
Dec 19, 2009
2,723
7
0
1 John 2:19

Were they ever saved?

Do we produce fruit every second of every day?
Is there a difference in God's eyes between a second and 10 years?

Salvation is between a man (or woman) and God. I don't even have the liberty to judge another irregardless of how it seems or appears. Besides there are times where I (and many others may agree) don't 'feel' saved. I only know this, those that are will be brought to completion in Christ because of Christ irregardless of their circumstances; one may conclude that sanctification is also a gift of God as salvation is in that neither are based on one's actions or inactions but rather faith (trust) in Christ that dictates one's actions or inactions (but even then to what extent? Does maturity in Christ play a role? If a person lives 10 minutes with no actions or inactions beneficial to God are they to be called fruitless? If a person lives 2 years with no actions or inactions beneficial to God are they to be called fruitless? Surely it can judged by their fruit whether they are fit for any type of position of authority or leadership, but liberty to judge the soul? (that is without knowledge such as a confession from their own mouth saying they do not)).

So why ask the question if a 'Christian' can lose their salvation?

For those that believe that way, I understand why they would ask.

As I would understand why satan would ask, he would like nothing more than the believer to doubt their salvation. In doing so they would take their eyes off of God's grace and shift them onto themselves, leading to guilt, shame and even separation from other believers. Isolation is one of satan's greatest tatics.

I can imagine that some may use the idea that a 'Christian' can lose his/her salvation as an excuse to judge one's salvation. Or to puff one's self up likewise.

And of course, there are people who don't know.

But why is the original poster asking this? Or anyone else who does? No need to type it out, just something to consider.
Wonderful post

I may(I am sure I have) been guilty of wording this badly in the past. No fruit or work will ensure we get into Heaven. Neither will any law keeping, neither can we in anyway earn our way there.


We have but one righteousness for Heaven as long as we live, faith in Christ that he died for us on the cross, preceded by a sincere repentance. Paul himself said.

For in the Gospel a righteousness from God has been revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last. Rom1:17 That means the whole of our Christian lives. If I was burned alive for preaching the Gospel, if I gave all my money and possessions to the poor, if I could almost perfectly obey God's good laws, none of that would give me any entitlement in anyway to enter Heaven. That is by faith in the cross of Christ alone

When we know from the bottom of our hearts we are saved for eternity simply by faith in Christ who died for us and not by any goodness or striving on our part at all we are secure with a loving Heavenly Father immersed in a Gospel of Grace. We then love our Father in Heaven truly and sincerely because of what he has done for us. And we know that our salvation is not down to us and our human effort but due totally to what His Son did for us on the cross, and the fact that by grace we have been given the faith to believe it.

If we fully accept that the power of sin is broken in our lives, because the power of sin is the law.

We are given the Holy Spirit which is the only power and strength we have to live the Christian life. Paul is adamant about that.

We know we have no right at all to boast in ourselves, because everything in the Christian life that we need has been done for us and given to us as a free gift. We then in the power of the Holy Spirit produce good works. It would be impossible for us not to once we truly accept all of this. In this situation if our faith is a sincere one we would have to produce works, but not us but by the Spirit's power working in us.
But different people have different works. A mother's may be simply to bring up her children in a loving secure christian enviroment. It is not for us to judge anyone elses salvation in my opinion.

God will not accept the works of people who in their hearts believe they will contribute to them gaining entry into Heaven, this is diminishing His Son's agonising death on the cross for us. Neither will God accept a persons own striving in themselves to be good enough for Heaven by law keeping, believing that if they are saintly enough it will contribute to them gaining entry into Heaven. The glory is all Gods, not part ours.

I don't believe this in anyway goes against James or Paul's teachings. In the well recited passage when Abraham's act of sacrificing Isaac was proof of his faith, this happened at least 30 years after God had credited faith to him as righteousness. Do we not believe he was saved in the intervening period? James was writing to Jewish Christians, many would have been Pharisees. They wanted the Gentiles to obey the whole of the Mosaic law, so it is understandable that James laid great emphasis on works being produced. But he still said that Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness

The people in the Bible who wanted to get to Heaven by their own effort and be seen to earn their salvation were the ones Jesus used his harshest words on, and they were the ones who through pride could not accept the grace that was on offer and were responsible for Christ being crucified.

I do not believe a sincere conversion based on these Biblical principals will ever be eternally lost, others I am sure will.
 
S

ShelleBelle76

Guest
Someone who continues to willingly and blatantly live in sin has not truly accepted Christ (1 John 2:19; 1 John 3:6; James 1:26). While this false belief may be held by some, it is not a part of the teachings of any true Christian church (Romans 3:8).

A person who willingly, humbly, repents of sin and turns towards the cross, trusting Christ as their Savior, will be saved (Acts 16:31; John 6:37; John 14:6). That salvation is once and for all, eternal, and secure. Those who truly trust in Christ are saved once, and saved always.
I tried to walk away from this conversation, but I am so bothered by it that it almost hurts my heart. I can understand the point you are trying to make, and why you take this position. But I have to totally disagree. Before I explain let me say, I agree with the statement that a Christian can never lose his salvation. Once you become a child of God nothing and no one can ever take that away from you. So yes, you are right.

However...

If you say that we can not freely choose to walk away from the grace of God, and turn back to our wicked ways, denounce our faith and live in sin, then you are removing free will. If you argue that if I turned my back on God, I must not have been truly saved, then Acts 2:38 is not the way to salvation. When I look back at my past... with good intentions I repented, I was baptized and I received the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tounges. I may not understand that, but I cannot deny it happened. So I was saved with every intention to follow His plan for my life from then on.

Years later, I turned away. I denounced my faith in God, I became a drunk, a drug addict, a drug dealer, a thief, a liar, full of blastphemy. I participated in all types of sexual immoralities. I lived for the moment, and loved my life with no intention of ever returning. I laughed in the face of God.

According to Galations 5:19 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

So either I wasn't ever truly saved, according to Acts 2:38 and every other verse that says to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, or I was saved and I willingly surrendered God's grace in my life so I could be the ruler of my own world, because I thought I could do a much better job.

God did not bring me back to Him, I willingly came back because I was tired of falling flat on my face over and over again, by running the show on my own. I thought, what do I have to lose? I was not pricked in my heart to turn to God, it was more an act of desperation. I made the first move. And He was waiting there for me to turn to Him. It was a complete act of faith, because at the time I fell on my face before God and begged for His mercy, I was not even sure He really existed. But again, I had nothing to lose by trying. I was totally unworthy, after rejecting Him for so long, but He wrapped me in His arms and forgave me.

That is where grace happens. That is where the transfer occurs from, it being salvation by my actions to salvation by grace. I did not save myself by running to Him. He saved me by grace! In His mind my salvation was already assured when Jesus paid the price for me on Calvary. But my salvation was not complete until I accepted that gift. You can say salvation has nothing to do with our actions, but oh it does! Repentance, turning away, and living according to His will are all actions we do, that represent us reaching out and taking His gift. He will not give us salvation, until we ask for it. Ask... a verb, and action that my salvation is dependent on! Once we have received the gift of life he has for us, we can never lose it, it can never be taken from us. That is His promise, but it is something we can shove back in His face... and though His love will remain, his grace will remain it will not abide in us!

No saint should ever be afraid of falling from grace, so long as they strive to live their lives accordance to God's will. As long as you are placing on foot in front of the other, and doing what you truly believe is right, you can and will never lose your salvation! And I think, my friends, that was the whole point of this topic right?

(Sorry for the lengthiness!) :)
 
S

Slepsog4

Guest
Can a person LOSE their virginity? NO... They either give it away (consent) or it is stolen (rape). They don't wake up one day and ask, "Where did it go?" They know exactly when, where, and usually with whom.

Can a person LOSE their salvation? NO... God is not going to walk away from them. God is not going to allow something outside the relationship to sever it. BUT, a person can walk away. He may do so with a high hand thumbing his nose at God. Or he may walk away by pursuing something he apparently sees as more important than God... ie, sin.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
1,307
33
48
How can you walk away from God and lose salvation that way?

A loving father seeing his son about to commit suicide.. the loving thing is to remove the means by which the want to commit suicide!

The same thing goes for God.. He will remove the means by which we can terminate salvation.. because that is real love! He knows what is better for us and will not allow us to terminate salvation.. which is actually worse than suicide.

Can someone lose their biological connection to their parents..since they are born into that family? No.. impossible. How can God's connection to us spiritually.. not be as deep as that? It is deeper!

When Jesus forgives sin.. it is all sufficient.. complete.. past present and future. That is real love.. absolute.. eternal.. unconditional love. Were it not this.. He would not be God because His payment for us would not be enough.

Don't forget that the Holy Spirit who indwells a person at salvation is God.
 
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
16
0
He will remove the means by which we can terminate salvation.. because that is real love! He knows what is better for us and will not allow us to terminate salvation..
I think that's a bit like wishful thinking, not really the reality. God doesn't always stop someone who is intent on doing something intentionally stupid, but lets them do it, and see the consequences. I know a couple of people who "lost their faith" as it were, and no one stopped them.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
He didn't stop adam and eve in the garden. He didn't stop Israel from choosing a king over Him.
 
S

ShelleBelle76

Guest
"He will remove the means by which we can terminate salvation.. because that is real love! He knows what is better for us and will not allow us to terminate salvation.. "

If that was the case then there really is no need for redemption. He loves us all and knows what is best, therefore are all saved and there is no longer free will. God wants us to choose to love him and do what is right and good. He will never force us... it's all in the Bible if you will just read! Seek, search. We don't have all the perfect answers and many of the answers you get from us will vary. But the Bible is infallible and if you look beyond one or two scriptures at the entire scope of salvation and God's relationship and desire for mankind, it really is pretty simple to understand. :)
 
C

Consumed

Guest
"He will remove the means by which we can terminate salvation.. because that is real love! He knows what is better for us and will not allow us to terminate salvation.. "

If that was the case then there really is no need for redemption. He loves us all and knows what is best, therefore are all saved and there is no longer free will. God wants us to choose to love him and do what is right and good. He will never force us... it's all in the Bible if you will just read! Seek, search. We don't have all the perfect answers and many of the answers you get from us will vary. But the Bible is infallible and if you look beyond one or two scriptures at the entire scope of salvation and God's relationship and desire for mankind, it really is pretty simple to understand. :)

as ive said earlier on in this thread, what then of Jesus' words of "begone unfaithful servant"but didnt we cast out demons etc etc. no guareentee, free gift we can still lose by not abiding in the vine, question posted is "can a christian lose their salvation", 10 virgins, 5 entered, kept their lamps trimmed.

with love
 

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
829
8
18
"He will remove the means by which we can terminate salvation.. because that is real love! He knows what is better for us and will not allow us to terminate salvation.. "

If that was the case then there really is no need for redemption. He loves us all and knows what is best, therefore are all saved and there is no longer free will. God wants us to choose to love him and do what is right and good. He will never force us... it's all in the Bible if you will just read! Seek, search. We don't have all the perfect answers and many of the answers you get from us will vary. But the Bible is infallible and if you look beyond one or two scriptures at the entire scope of salvation and God's relationship and desire for mankind, it really is pretty simple to understand. :)

You might want to tell Joah that God won't force us to do anything.
 
S

ShelleBelle76

Guest
You might want to tell Joah that God won't force us to do anything.
You don't think Jonah might have died in the belly of the whale had he not come to repentance? The choice was his. He made it, and God spared His life. The choice is always ours... if we make it God will spare us as well and we will enter the kingdom of heaven. If not... well that's another debate I am frankly too tired for tonight! :)
 
C

Consumed

Guest
You don't think Jonah might have died in the belly of the whale had he not come to repentance? The choice was his. He made it, and God spared His life. The choice is always ours... if we make it God will spare us as well and we will enter the kingdom of heaven. If not... well that's another debate I am frankly too tired for tonight! :)
thats a great observation about Jonah in the belly of the whale. Life is choice, Jesus made it very clear in revelations that He would much prefer one to be either hot or cold, not like lukewarm, cold being the unbeliever, lukewarm being the carnal christian, hot being the spirit filled believer. If one is cold, no need to spew him out, was never in Christ to start with, that makes it easy for Jesus, they reject Him outright, if one is lukewarm, well Jesus says it all:)