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you are making that up .....last line not in scripture....
those scripture are not remotely close to .....ask Christ to come into your heart.......why do people pretend that it is in scripture....??the closest thing to that is ...as many as receive him to them he gave power to become sons of God....but that in no way constitute asking him to come into your life....receiving and asking two different things..
those scripture are not remotely close to .....ask Christ to come into your heart.......why do people pretend that it is in scripture....??the closest thing to that is ...as many as receive him to them he gave power to become sons of God....but that in no way constitute asking him to come into your life....receiving and asking two different things..
Romans 10:
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
This is the same thing as 'asking Christ into your heart'.. the words aren't the most important thing.. but the attitude of the heart to Jesus in being given eternal life.
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
This is the same thing as 'asking Christ into your heart'.. the words aren't the most important thing.. but the attitude of the heart to Jesus in being given eternal life.
P
Romans 10- Confessing with mouth is not asking/praying to God
Proof that confess and prayer are two different actions:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. (James 5:16)
Example of confessing with your mouth. This also covers your John 3:16 theory of believing, followed by Jesus coming into your heart:
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” [SUP] 38 [/SUP]So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. (Acts 8:37-38)
Proof that confess and prayer are two different actions:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much. (James 5:16)
Example of confessing with your mouth. This also covers your John 3:16 theory of believing, followed by Jesus coming into your heart:
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” [SUP] 38 [/SUP]So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. (Acts 8:37-38)
G
That's a pretty silly and trivial remark.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (Joh 10:27-28 KJV)
28 κἀγὼ ζωὴν αἰώνιον δίδωμι αὐτοῖς· καὶ οὐ μὴ ἀπόλωνται εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα, καὶ οὐχ ἁρπάσει τις αὐτὰ ἐκ τῆς χειρός μου. (Joh 10:28 BYZ)
Ive never met anybody who argues with the greek grammar. Kago I tell you... Zooen....life ....aioonion..... eternal [everlasting--unto ageless ages)] ...I give to you. "and he shall not not be destroyed for the age [καὶ οὐ μὴ ἀπόλωνται εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα].
Its pretty clear to me...once saved always saved. The grammar does not lie. There is a double negative being used for emphasis.
Wallace in his greek grammar translates as follows:
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]δίδωμι αὐτοῖς ζωὴν αἰώνιον καὶ οὐ μὴ ἀπόλωνται εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]I give them eternal life, and they will not at all perish.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Therefore according to your own standard the book of life passages must be interpreted in the light of the clearly grammatical and exegetical teaching of John 10.
I will offer an alternative and sounder solution. The book of life is a metaphor referring to a roll call or membership roll. All those who profess faith in Christ are written therein, but only those who are elect and therefore genuinely have the gift of faith persevere in that belief. Not everyone who calls himself a Christian is one (Acts 8:13 w. 8:20-21) but you cannot be a Christian without calling yourself one. See: Rom. 10:9-10.
Only this passage implies the theoretical possibility of being blotted from the book of life
9 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Rev 22:19 NKJ)
In every other passage, that I know of, there is no possibility mentioned of being blotted from the book of life
3 And I urge you also, true companion, help these women who labored with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the Book of Life. (Phi 4:3 NKJ)
"He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. (Rev 3:5 NKJ)
8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (Rev 13:8 NKJ)
8 "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. (Rev 17:8 NKJ)
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev 20:12-15 NKJ)
But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb's Book of Life.(Rev 21:27-22:1 NKJ)
When we look at all the passages it becomes clear that only the elect are written in the book of life. That all those who are not written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire. Therefore the one dubious passage ought to be interpreted in the light of the rest. That the possibility of being blotted out of the book is only theoretical. Remember Scripture is perfect for all the parts consent with each other. There is no contradiction in Scripture, but it is not always easy to fit the verses together.
Why warn people against something that cant happen? Because the Bible is not written to the elect, but to all those who profess faith in Christ. Otherwise we would not be warned to work out our salvation in fear and trembling (Philippians) and make our calling and election sure (1 Pet.) It is by the threat of punishment that our obedience is secured, for we are protected by faith, and faith is maintained through the negative promises of judgement and the positive promises of reward. Not as a result of merit, as though we earn our salvation, but because genuine faith is alive, and therefore shows itself through believing in the promises, and fearing the threatenings. This is why it is far better to say "the Perseverance of the Saints" rather than "Once saved always saved."
Peace
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (Joh 10:27-28 KJV)
28 κἀγὼ ζωὴν αἰώνιον δίδωμι αὐτοῖς· καὶ οὐ μὴ ἀπόλωνται εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα, καὶ οὐχ ἁρπάσει τις αὐτὰ ἐκ τῆς χειρός μου. (Joh 10:28 BYZ)
Ive never met anybody who argues with the greek grammar. Kago I tell you... Zooen....life ....aioonion..... eternal [everlasting--unto ageless ages)] ...I give to you. "and he shall not not be destroyed for the age [καὶ οὐ μὴ ἀπόλωνται εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα].
Its pretty clear to me...once saved always saved. The grammar does not lie. There is a double negative being used for emphasis.
Wallace in his greek grammar translates as follows:
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]δίδωμι αὐτοῖς ζωὴν αἰώνιον καὶ οὐ μὴ ἀπόλωνται εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]I give them eternal life, and they will not at all perish.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Therefore according to your own standard the book of life passages must be interpreted in the light of the clearly grammatical and exegetical teaching of John 10.
I will offer an alternative and sounder solution. The book of life is a metaphor referring to a roll call or membership roll. All those who profess faith in Christ are written therein, but only those who are elect and therefore genuinely have the gift of faith persevere in that belief. Not everyone who calls himself a Christian is one (Acts 8:13 w. 8:20-21) but you cannot be a Christian without calling yourself one. See: Rom. 10:9-10.
Only this passage implies the theoretical possibility of being blotted from the book of life
9 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (Rev 22:19 NKJ)
In every other passage, that I know of, there is no possibility mentioned of being blotted from the book of life
3 And I urge you also, true companion, help these women who labored with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the Book of Life. (Phi 4:3 NKJ)
"He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. (Rev 3:5 NKJ)
8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (Rev 13:8 NKJ)
8 "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. (Rev 17:8 NKJ)
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev 20:12-15 NKJ)
But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb's Book of Life.(Rev 21:27-22:1 NKJ)
When we look at all the passages it becomes clear that only the elect are written in the book of life. That all those who are not written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire. Therefore the one dubious passage ought to be interpreted in the light of the rest. That the possibility of being blotted out of the book is only theoretical. Remember Scripture is perfect for all the parts consent with each other. There is no contradiction in Scripture, but it is not always easy to fit the verses together.
Why warn people against something that cant happen? Because the Bible is not written to the elect, but to all those who profess faith in Christ. Otherwise we would not be warned to work out our salvation in fear and trembling (Philippians) and make our calling and election sure (1 Pet.) It is by the threat of punishment that our obedience is secured, for we are protected by faith, and faith is maintained through the negative promises of judgement and the positive promises of reward. Not as a result of merit, as though we earn our salvation, but because genuine faith is alive, and therefore shows itself through believing in the promises, and fearing the threatenings. This is why it is far better to say "the Perseverance of the Saints" rather than "Once saved always saved."
Peace
the question is who are the elect...
1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
E
So can you tell me how to confess your sins to someone without talking to them? Do you just do a Vulcan mind meld where they can read your mind and see what sins you wish to confess to them?
Confessing your sins to God is TALKING to God. which is also called prayer. Confessing that Jesus is Lord is also talking with God (I can confess to a person all I want, I MUST confess to God. Like Peter did. "We know you are the Christ, son of the living God"
Confessing your sins to God is TALKING to God. which is also called prayer. Confessing that Jesus is Lord is also talking with God (I can confess to a person all I want, I MUST confess to God. Like Peter did. "We know you are the Christ, son of the living God"
E
I praise you for wanting to Live like a Christian.
But just remember, no matter how well you do this, you will still not deserve eternal life. So it would be hard to say you may lose something you could never deserve in the first place.
Learn to live like Christ, and you will be blessed beyond belief!
But just remember, no matter how well you do this, you will still not deserve eternal life. So it would be hard to say you may lose something you could never deserve in the first place.
Learn to live like Christ, and you will be blessed beyond belief!
there are clear examples in Scripture of genuine believers who did not persevere in good works, but who instead walked in the flesh.
Solomon ended his life as an idolator (1 Kings 11).
Many of the believers in Corinth, although five years old as Christians, were still carnal and fleshly—yet they are called babes in Christ (1 Cor 3:1-3).
One believer at Corinth was actually living in immorality with his stepmother and was brazenly unrepentant (1 Cor 5:5).
A number of believers in Corinth were sick, and some had already died, as a result of their selfish and drunken disregard for the sacredness of the Lord's Supper (1 Cor 11:30).
Demas, whom Paul at least twice referred to as his co-laborer in Christ's service (Col 4:14; Phlm 24), later is said by Paul to have "forsaken me, having loved this present world" (2 Tim 4:10).
Likewise James refers to the need to turn back fellow believers who have wandered from the truth Jas 5:19-20).
Solomon ended his life as an idolator (1 Kings 11).
Many of the believers in Corinth, although five years old as Christians, were still carnal and fleshly—yet they are called babes in Christ (1 Cor 3:1-3).
One believer at Corinth was actually living in immorality with his stepmother and was brazenly unrepentant (1 Cor 5:5).
A number of believers in Corinth were sick, and some had already died, as a result of their selfish and drunken disregard for the sacredness of the Lord's Supper (1 Cor 11:30).
Demas, whom Paul at least twice referred to as his co-laborer in Christ's service (Col 4:14; Phlm 24), later is said by Paul to have "forsaken me, having loved this present world" (2 Tim 4:10).
Likewise James refers to the need to turn back fellow believers who have wandered from the truth Jas 5:19-20).
Tell me which is better:
A person who believe they are Saved and can't possibly do anything wrong to lose being SAVED.
or
A person who believes they are Saved, but if not careful can lose it ???
i will tell you the Truth Once Saved Always Saved is a lie and is not the Truth. The biggest danger of believing this lie, is they will not be careful to maintain it, if they think they can never lose it. They are wrong, and are deceived and believe a lie.
i right now am SAVED, i have eternal life, i have 100% assurance that i am SAVED and going to Heaven, and the Spirit testifies that i am SAVED. i know with no doubts whatsoever where i am going if i were to die right this second, or if right this second Christ Returns i WILL be taken. i walk in the light as Jesus walked in the light, and His blood has cleansed me from all sins (I John 1:7) i do not knowingly and willingly commit any sin against Jesus Christ, i abhor sin. i do all things to please Jesus my Savior and Lord. i AM SAVED.
Does that mean next month i will be? What if God decides to test me, like He allowed Job to be tested, will i remain in His Good Standings, will i fall away from Him? What if the Tribulation period starts and those that i love suffer horribly, will i be one of those that fall away from the Faith? What if someone accuses me of molesting a child and i go to prison because the judged believed her over me, will i doubt God saying "Why me Lord, why did you allow this to happen to me?" Lets assume that i did not fall away from God then, what if i have unforgiveness towards the girl that lied and falsely accused me and i went to prison for many years. The Bible says if i do not forgiven men their trespasses neither will i be forgiven of mine. But i am SAVED right, even though i do have unforgiveness towards her, am i still SAVED and forgiven even though the Bible is clear that those who do not forgive others will not themselves be forgiven. Can i be SAVED and unforgiven at the same time?
i am SAVED right now, but my wife gives me no love, no affection at all, i have been getting it from a woman at work. Am i still SAVED even though i am living in Adultery. Doesn't the Bible say and teach that no adulterer will enter into Heaven? Because i am SAVED am i then excluded?
Right now i am SAVED, and i KNOW without any doubts whatsoever that i am going to Heaven for all eternity. i know not what tomorrow holds or what tomorrow may bring for me. If i endure to the End, that is when i will have won the prize. If the end comes today, i will be SAVED, i will receive the prize of eternal life in Heaven, i do not have eternal life right this second, because i can die, i am not eternal, YET. If today i die or am killed or Christ comes, i have endured to the end, i AM SAVED. But if i am still living, still running the race, i have NOT ATTAINED eternal life, because i can still die. Eternal life is given to those at Judgement Day, the END. So today i am SAVED, and i will be careful to continue to walk in His light, to abide in His Love, to abide in His Word until the end comes. But i know not what tomorrow will bring.
Tell me, all those verses mentioned by PWE, are the SAVED excluded from those verses, do they not apply to the SAVED? Yes they apply to those who claim to be SAVED. i am SAVED and each and ever one of them apply to me too.
^i^
A person who believe they are Saved and can't possibly do anything wrong to lose being SAVED.
or
A person who believes they are Saved, but if not careful can lose it ???
i will tell you the Truth Once Saved Always Saved is a lie and is not the Truth. The biggest danger of believing this lie, is they will not be careful to maintain it, if they think they can never lose it. They are wrong, and are deceived and believe a lie.
i right now am SAVED, i have eternal life, i have 100% assurance that i am SAVED and going to Heaven, and the Spirit testifies that i am SAVED. i know with no doubts whatsoever where i am going if i were to die right this second, or if right this second Christ Returns i WILL be taken. i walk in the light as Jesus walked in the light, and His blood has cleansed me from all sins (I John 1:7) i do not knowingly and willingly commit any sin against Jesus Christ, i abhor sin. i do all things to please Jesus my Savior and Lord. i AM SAVED.
Does that mean next month i will be? What if God decides to test me, like He allowed Job to be tested, will i remain in His Good Standings, will i fall away from Him? What if the Tribulation period starts and those that i love suffer horribly, will i be one of those that fall away from the Faith? What if someone accuses me of molesting a child and i go to prison because the judged believed her over me, will i doubt God saying "Why me Lord, why did you allow this to happen to me?" Lets assume that i did not fall away from God then, what if i have unforgiveness towards the girl that lied and falsely accused me and i went to prison for many years. The Bible says if i do not forgiven men their trespasses neither will i be forgiven of mine. But i am SAVED right, even though i do have unforgiveness towards her, am i still SAVED and forgiven even though the Bible is clear that those who do not forgive others will not themselves be forgiven. Can i be SAVED and unforgiven at the same time?
i am SAVED right now, but my wife gives me no love, no affection at all, i have been getting it from a woman at work. Am i still SAVED even though i am living in Adultery. Doesn't the Bible say and teach that no adulterer will enter into Heaven? Because i am SAVED am i then excluded?
Right now i am SAVED, and i KNOW without any doubts whatsoever that i am going to Heaven for all eternity. i know not what tomorrow holds or what tomorrow may bring for me. If i endure to the End, that is when i will have won the prize. If the end comes today, i will be SAVED, i will receive the prize of eternal life in Heaven, i do not have eternal life right this second, because i can die, i am not eternal, YET. If today i die or am killed or Christ comes, i have endured to the end, i AM SAVED. But if i am still living, still running the race, i have NOT ATTAINED eternal life, because i can still die. Eternal life is given to those at Judgement Day, the END. So today i am SAVED, and i will be careful to continue to walk in His light, to abide in His Love, to abide in His Word until the end comes. But i know not what tomorrow will bring.
Tell me, all those verses mentioned by PWE, are the SAVED excluded from those verses, do they not apply to the SAVED? Yes they apply to those who claim to be SAVED. i am SAVED and each and ever one of them apply to me too.
^i^
E
which is better,
to place your faith in self, and fear losing salvation. (which is what you must do. No one can place faith in God and fear losing salvation. because their faith would not be in Christ.)
or place faith in God, and know he will continue to perfect you till the day of Christ? As he promised.
This excuse that a person who does not fear losing salvation will fall and live however he wishes is just plain hogwash and a lie of satan.
One can not have faith in God, and understand how much of a sinner he really is (which brings him to christ to begin with) and even have a desire to live in sin. If one desires to live in sin, they have not repented and trusted in Christ, and is not saved period.
OSAS is true, because its faith is in Christ and his work.
anyone who does not believe this, places faith in Self and not God.
to place your faith in self, and fear losing salvation. (which is what you must do. No one can place faith in God and fear losing salvation. because their faith would not be in Christ.)
or place faith in God, and know he will continue to perfect you till the day of Christ? As he promised.
This excuse that a person who does not fear losing salvation will fall and live however he wishes is just plain hogwash and a lie of satan.
One can not have faith in God, and understand how much of a sinner he really is (which brings him to christ to begin with) and even have a desire to live in sin. If one desires to live in sin, they have not repented and trusted in Christ, and is not saved period.
OSAS is true, because its faith is in Christ and his work.
anyone who does not believe this, places faith in Self and not God.
You must have mis-read my posts.
God saves. The issue is who/why does God save? God saves those that obey His command to be water baptized. God has chosen water baptism as the means by which He saves. So baptism saves 1 Pet 3:21 for God says it saves.
God has set standards for men to live by to be saved, no one can live just anyway he so chooses and be saved.
Can I live perfectly to those standards? No, but that is where God's grace comes in. When I fall short and repent (repenting is part of God's standard) when I do not meet God's standard God graciously forgives me for having an obedient faith. Abraham had an obedient faith, not perfect, but because of that obedient faith he was justified, James 2:21.
God saves. The issue is who/why does God save? God saves those that obey His command to be water baptized. God has chosen water baptism as the means by which He saves. So baptism saves 1 Pet 3:21 for God says it saves.
God has set standards for men to live by to be saved, no one can live just anyway he so chooses and be saved.
Can I live perfectly to those standards? No, but that is where God's grace comes in. When I fall short and repent (repenting is part of God's standard) when I do not meet God's standard God graciously forgives me for having an obedient faith. Abraham had an obedient faith, not perfect, but because of that obedient faith he was justified, James 2:21.
So it was not possible for the prodigal to be alive, then dead, than alive again??? The bible say this what happened to the prodigal.
Could the prodigal stay with the harlots he spent his inheritance upon and not return to the father yet still be saved? Hardly.
You post "Just because a Christian may fall away for a time..."
So how much time would the prodigal have to be with the harlots before he would be lost?