Can the Trinity be Biblically proven?

[valiant]

Originally Posted by valiant

He took the superior position in the working out of salvation, He was not superior in essence and being. (John 17.5; matt -28.19; phil 2.9-11)

The very Scriptures I posted that you quoted, refute you. You are possessed by Trinitarian deception.
Quasar

you have only shown ONE SIDE of the position, the situation AFTER Jesus Christ had emptied Himself (Phl 2.5). Those Scriptures only show the lowly position He took. They say nothing about His PERMANENT BEING.

I take the Scriptural position of God's original tri-unity, revealed continually in Scripture.

e,g, The Word was face to face with God, and what God was the Word was, --- and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us

 

[FreeNChrist]

It won't make one bit of difference in which translation you want to post, they are all going to provide the same Scriptural truths I posted from the NIV.


Quasar92

Right. They are all saying that even though Jesus was never less than fully God, He was never functioning as anything more than fully man.

 

[Dude653]

It won't make one bit of difference in which translation you want to post, they are all going to provide the same Scriptural truths I posted from the NIV.


Quasar92

except when it horrendously misquotes scripture

 

[bluto]

According to the following Scriptures, the Father is superior to the Son. See also Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35.

Jn.8:28 (NIV) " So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up[a] the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me."

Jn.14:10 (NIV) "Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."

Jn.14:28 (NIV) “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

Jn.17:3 (NIV) Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."

Heb.1:1 "On many past occasions and in many different ways, God spoke to our fathers through the prophets. 2But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things,and through whom He made the universe."


Quasar92

So quasar, did it ever occur to you why the Bible says Father is superior to His Son? Or why Jesus said that the Father is greater than Him? What's the reason quasar? Secondly, I started a thread just for you called, "Proof the Jesus Christ preexisted His Incarnation." You have said Jesus was created and that He did not exist prior to His incarnation. Please check it out because the thread proves you wrong.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Quasar92]

you have only shown ONE SIDE of the position, the situation AFTER Jesus Christ had emptied Himself (Phl 2.5). Those Scriptures only show the lowly position He took. They say nothing about His PERMANENT BEING.

I take the Scriptural position of God's original tri-unity, revealed continually in Scripture.

e,g, The Word was face to face with God, and what God was the Word was, --- and the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us

The post I entered is the position straight from the Bible. Review Pr.8:22-36 for the origin of the pre-incarnate Jesus. He did not become the Son of God/God the Son until God, who is the Holy Spirit, produced Him be the virgin Mary, and became His Father, according to Mt.1:20 and Lk.1:35, as well as in a number of other passages.

Please tell me why the Bible, Jesus nor His disciples ever taught the Trinity.


Quasar92

 

[Quasar92]

So quasar, did it ever occur to you why the Bible says Father is superior to His Son? Or why Jesus said that the Father is greater than Him? What's the reason quasar? Secondly, I started a thread just for you called, "Proof the Jesus Christ preexisted His Incarnation." You have said Jesus was created and that He did not exist prior to His incarnation. Please check it out because the thread proves you wrong.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Do you have some kind of problem accepting the Scriptures that refute your views, bluto? There have already been posts recorded here that prove the pre-existence of Jesus. Beginning with Jn.1:1-2 and 17:3 for starters, to say nothing of Heb.1:1-2.


Quasar02

 

[Quasar92]

except when it horrendously misquotes scripture

If you want to prove something I posted from the NIV, which I could have posted from any translation, is false, the do so. Otherwise you have no argument.


Quasar02

 

[Quasar92]

Right. They are all saying that even though Jesus was never less than fully God, He was never functioning as anything more than fully man.

The fact of the matter is, Your belief that the Son is co-eternal and co-equal to the Father is Trinitarian double talk and contradicts the teachings of the Bible. For exmple:

[FONT=&quot]God makes it clear in the OT, He is eternal, that there is no other God but He Himself. "....Before me no God was formed, nor will there be one after me." Isa.43:10. And in Isa.44:6, "....I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God." See also Isa.45:5: "I am the Lord and there is no other," and in Ex.3:14: "I AM WHO I AM."

[/FONT]The pre-existing Jesus was the Father's firstborn over all creation, in Col.1:15. As seen in Jn.1:1-2 and 17:3. Jesuws did not become the Son of God/God the Son. until recorded in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:35. The origin of the pre-incarnate Jesus is documented in Pr.8:22-36.


Quasar92

 

[Dude653]

It won't make one bit of difference in which translation you want to post, they are all going to provide the same Scriptural truths I posted from the NIV.


Quasar92

The list of Miss quoted scripture it is far too lengthy to list here.. many of these scriptures are deliberately Miss quoted in order to support non trinitarian Doctrine... not to mention the over 200 scriptures entirely missing

 

[Quasar92]

The list of Miss quoted scripture it is far too lengthy to list here.. many of these scriptures are deliberately Miss quoted in order to support non trinitarian Doctrine... not to mention the over 200 scriptures entirely missing

The fact that there are differences of opinion on ms translation is a long, well established fact. Opinions expressed by ly persons as to which of them is correct is widespread and usually dogmatic as well. Arguing about it is a pointless and useless endeavor!


Quasar92

 

[FreeNChrist]

The fact of the matter is, Your belief that the Son is co-eternal and co-equal to the Father is Trinitarian double talk and contradicts the teachings of the Bible. For exmple:

God makes it clear in the OT, He is eternal, that there is no other God but He Himself. "....Before me no God was formed, nor will there be one after me." Isa.43:10. And in Isa.44:6, "....I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God." See also Isa.45:5: "I am the Lord and there is no other," and in Ex.3:14: "I AM WHO I AM."

The pre-existing Jesus was the Father's firstborn over all creation, in Col.1:15. As seen in Jn.1:1-2 and 17:3. Jesuws did not become the Son of God/God the Son. until recorded in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:35. The origin of the pre-incarnate Jesus is documented in Pr.8:22-36.


Quasar92

The fact of the matter is that you have no answer to to truth you have been shown, so you simply revert back to your silly "talking points".

 

[Quasar92]

The fact of the matter is that you have no answer to to truth you have been shown, so you simply revert back to your silly "talking points".

Prove what I have posted is silly, junior.


Quasar92

 

[FreeNChrist]

Prove what I have posted is silly, junior.


Quasar92

Already did. This is not a competition. To deny God as who He is, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, is to deny God. And at your age, senior, that is something you may be running out of time to make right.

 

[bluto]

The fact of the matter is, Your belief that the Son is co-eternal and co-equal to the Father is Trinitarian double talk and contradicts the teachings of the Bible. For exmple:

God makes it clear in the OT, He is eternal, that there is no other God but He Himself. "....Before me no God was formed, nor will there be one after me." Isa.43:10. And in Isa.44:6, "....I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God." See also Isa.45:5: "I am the Lord and there is no other," and in Ex.3:14: "I AM WHO I AM."

The pre-existing Jesus was the Father's firstborn over all creation, in Col.1:15. As seen in Jn.1:1-2 and 17:3. Jesuws did not become the Son of God/God the Son. until recorded in Mt.1:20 and in Lk.1:35. The origin of the pre-incarnate Jesus is documented in Pr.8:22-36.


Quasar92

So quasar, if the Son is not co-equal or co-eternal with His Father then please explain John 5:17,18, "But He/Jesus answered them, My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." Vs18, For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because he not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling GOD HIS OWN FATHER, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD."

And regarding you statement, "God makes it clear in the OT He is eternal, that there is no other God but He Himself." Ok fine, then explain Micah 5:2, "But as for you , Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, FROM YOU ONE WILL GO FORTH FOR ME TO BE RULER IN ISRAEL; HIS GOINGS FORTH ARE FROM LONG AGO, FROM THE DAYS OF ETERNITY." Who's goings forth are from the days of eternity in this verse quasar? What if I told you that His goings forth have also been in the OT?

You also quoted Isaiah 43:10, but what about vs11? "I, even I, and the Lord, AND THERE IS NO SAVIOR BESIDES ME." If your going to follow strict rules of interpretation then you should take it to its logical conclusion. God says there is no Savior besides Him but yet Luke 2:11 says, "for today in the city of David there HAS BEEN BORN FOR YOU A SAVIOR, WHO IS CHIRST THE LORD."

You then brought up Isaiah 44:6 where it says, "I am the first and the last, And there is no God besides Me." Who is the first and last at Revelation 1:17,18? "And when I say Him, I fell at His feet as a dead man. And He laid His right hand on me, saying, Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, vs18, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades."

Revelation 1:7,8, "Behold He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. Even so, Amen. Now look at vs8, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." Who is this quasar? Which person was dead and is alive, the first and the last and the one that is coming? Is it Jesus Christ or God the Father?

It's hard to string a bunch of verses together to prove a point but it's a different story to tie them together or reconcile them so they are in harmony with each other. I'm just trying to help and I'm not trying to make you look foolish. Even at your age you should at least be flexable and keep an open mind, in short no one is to old to learn.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Quasar92]

Already did. This is not a competition. To deny God as who He is, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, is to deny God. And at your age, senior, that is something you may be running out of time to make right.

You have repeated the Trinitarian rhetoric you have heard that was taught by a few of the church fathers, that was not ratified into the RCC until the fifth century. Show me anywhere in the Bible you find the Trinity being taught from the Bible, Jesus or His disciples. Are you not aware of the fact I have posted quotes from esteemed Trinitarians who admit the Bible does not teach it?

I was a Trinitarian for 45 years until I go tired of trying to explain it to others. As a result, I have spent 32 years learning what the Word of God teaches about who and what God is, that can be taught from the Bible. Which I have posted on this thread previously for anyone to review and critique for themselves.


Quasar92

 

[jaybird88]

You have repeated the Trinitarian rhetoric you have heard that was taught by a few of the church fathers, that was not ratified into the RCC until the fifth century. Show me anywhere in the Bible you find the Trinity being taught from the Bible, Jesus or His disciples. Are you not aware of the fact I have posted quotes from esteemed Trinitarians who admit the Bible does not teach it?

I was a Trinitarian for 45 years until I go tired of trying to explain it to others. As a result, I have spent 32 years learning what the Word of God teaches about who and what God is, that can be taught from the Bible. Which I have posted on this thread previously for anyone to review and critique for themselves.

Quasar92

i agree. we should follow the bible and what Jesus teaches. we should not let laws of man determine how we understand the Lords word. when we start letting doctrines define who is a Christian and who is going to heaven we are taking it to far. IMO this is exactly one of the things Jesus teaches against.

 

[RBA238]

i agree. we should follow the bible and what Jesus teaches. we should not let laws of man determine how we understand the Lords word. when we start letting doctrines define who is a Christian and who is going to heaven we are taking it to far. IMO this is exactly one of the things Jesus teaches against.

Exactly right. My thinking exactly. God gives all the Wisdom and understanding unto his children who obey and follow his word. God's Word is "Yea, and Amen"

 

[Quasar92]

i agree. we should follow the bible and what Jesus teaches. we should not let laws of man determine how we understand the Lords word. when we start letting doctrines define who is a Christian and who is going to heaven we are taking it to far. IMO this is exactly one of the things Jesus teaches against.

Amen to that, bro!


Quasar92

 

[bluto]

So quasar, if the Son is not co-equal or co-eternal with His Father then please explain John 5:17,18, "But He/Jesus answered them, My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." Vs18, For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because he not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling GOD HIS OWN FATHER, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD."

And regarding you statement, "God makes it clear in the OT He is eternal, that there is no other God but He Himself." Ok fine, then explain Micah 5:2, "But as for you , Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, FROM YOU ONE WILL GO FORTH FOR ME TO BE RULER IN ISRAEL; HIS GOINGS FORTH ARE FROM LONG AGO, FROM THE DAYS OF ETERNITY." Who's goings forth are from the days of eternity in this verse quasar? What if I told you that His goings forth have also been in the OT?

You also quoted Isaiah 43:10, but what about vs11? "I, even I, and the Lord, AND THERE IS NO SAVIOR BESIDES ME." If your going to follow strict rules of interpretation then you should take it to its logical conclusion. God says there is no Savior besides Him but yet Luke 2:11 says, "for today in the city of David there HAS BEEN BORN FOR YOU A SAVIOR, WHO IS CHIRST THE LORD."

You then brought up Isaiah 44:6 where it says, "I am the first and the last, And there is no God besides Me." Who is the first and last at Revelation 1:17,18? "And when I say Him, I fell at His feet as a dead man. And He laid His right hand on me, saying, Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, vs18, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades."

Revelation 1:7,8, "Behold He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. Even so, Amen. Now look at vs8, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." Who is this quasar? Which person was dead and is alive, the first and the last and the one that is coming? Is it Jesus Christ or God the Father?

It's hard to string a bunch of verses together to prove a point but it's a different story to tie them together or reconcile them so they are in harmony with each other. I'm just trying to help and I'm not trying to make you look foolish. Even at your age you should at least be flexable and keep an open mind, in short no one is to old to learn.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Bumped for quasar. nt

 

[FreeNChrist]

You have repeated the Trinitarian rhetoric you have heard that was taught by a few of the church fathers, that was not ratified into the RCC until the fifth century. Show me anywhere in the Bible you find the Trinity being taught from the Bible, Jesus or His disciples.


Quasar92

Paul explained that the Christians regeneration at salvation is, "God having sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts" (Gal. 4:6). The earliest baptismal formula was that of "baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit" (Matt. 28:19). Peter regarded his commission to be "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you might obey Jesus Christ...” (1 Peter 1:2). Pauls doxology statement expressed this distinctively asking that, "the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all” (2 Cor. 13:14).