Can you Sin and Not Die?

[Skinski7]

thanks Skinski for your thoughts on how to get to heaven as in one has to be perfect before hand, in and of themselves.

I said no such thing. There is no need to twist the message of departing from known iniquity in repentance into "being perfect in and of themselves."

You just blew off the Bible and twisted what I wrote into a fiction which you can easily dismiss.

 

[Skinski7]

Which Comandments Skinsky?
Christ's literal commandments?

Do you strive to obey all of Christ's literal commandments?
No you don't

For you say the only works that are required of the Christian are inward. IE to put the flesh to death and not sin

So in your quote from revelation, which commandments are you telling others they should keep?
Who's commandments must be obeyed so a person may have the right to the tree of life?


Thanks

Everything Jesus taught. Heed it.

 

[homwardbound]

You just IGNORE my "rant" and you also IGNORE that Homewardbound plainly implied that there is salvation in sin. It is tragic that you see nothing wrong with the idea that "salvation works godly sorrow unto repentance" which is what he clearly implied.

Obviously what I wrote was not meant for your eyes.

Therre is salvation in God period and onlyin God while we were yet sinners Christ died for us and those that believe shall be saved period

 

[mark54]

Everything Jesus taught. Heed it.

So you strive to obey each and every literal command that Christ taught?
Is that what you are professing?

If you do not yourself strive to obey all of Christ's literal teachings, do you feel comfortable asking others to do what you yourself do not even attempt to do?

 

[mark54]

Therre is salvation in God period and onlyin God while we were yet sinners Christ died for us and those that believe shall be saved period

He preaches all sin must stop before God will accept someone as His

As sin is transgression of the law(John's definition not mine) Skinsky in effect is saying the law must be completely upheld before anyone can have rightstanding before God

 

[mark54]

Everything Jesus taught. Heed it.

I am hoping you will answer a question relating to a subject you often bring forth

What caused the 'wretch of Rom7'(to use your words) to be in the state he was in?

 

[homwardbound]

My question was a simple one

What caused the wretch of Romans ch7(Skinskies words) to be in the state he was in?

Homewardbound,

With respect, I do not believe you have answered the question at all, and am not sure therefore if you understand what caused 'the wretch' to be in the state he was in

The only thing that causes any wretch to be in the state that they are in as in Romans 7 is there awareness of and and are sorry for it and are trying to stop it in the enegy of their own flesh and are in need of God to deliever them. It is of the flesh that caused my wretchedness, but I did not see until I tried as Paul so well explained everytime I wish to do I do evil instead, flesh needed to die and the only way I could ever accomplish this is through the finished work of Christ

 

[MichaelAH]

Yes and you along with many others here will balk at what I just said YES< YES< YES it is no longer an issue but this does not mean that I will never again sin in the future for I do not know the future holds nor can Iturn my hair white or black and I am not bragging for it is not I that has done this it is God that has done this to me for him and his glory. God has done this to all that Believe yet the problem is as long as ones conscience is not purged from sin they are going to continue in sin. How can one not sin by trusting God and having no thought of as in I got to quit, because I am sure all of you have this same experience, once the thoughts of sin are gone then one will not sin and thank God for this period. Ilive day by day trusting Father iun the finished work of Christ Jesus

It would seem like you view the gift of sinless life as a gift to sin without consequence. This troubles me.

 

[mark54]

The only thing that causes any wretch to be in the state that they are in as in Romans 7 is there awareness of and and are sorry for it and are trying to stop it in the enegy of their own flesh and are in need of God to deliever them. It is of the flesh that caused my wretchedness, but I did not see until I tried as Paul so well explained everytime I wish to do I do evil instead, flesh needed to die and the only way I could ever accomplish this is through the finished work of Christ

Homewardbound
You believe your answer is the correct one concerning the below verses from Rom 7.?

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

 

[homwardbound]

I said no such thing. There is no need to twist the message of departing from known iniquity in repentance into "being perfect in and of themselves."

You just blew off the Bible and twisted what I wrote into a fiction which you can easily dismiss.

Well then this is simple, can one actually believe in God and still have iniquity in their lives die and be saved by God

 

[homwardbound]

It would seem like you view the gift of sinless life as a gift to sin without consequence. This troubles me.

No sir no way this is not a gift to sin, it is a gift to life for those that believe and God in those that believe carries on the good work that he began in them all the way to completion whether here or at our home in Heaven, God is the only one faithful and every man a liar

 

[homwardbound]

Homewardbound
You believe your answer is the correct one concerning the below verses from Rom 7.?

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. [SUP]8 [/SUP]But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

This is why we are to die to the law and I said this in my post what is it you are looking for? and never once did I say the law was not good it was made weak through the flesh another reason we are to flesh and come alive to God

 

[Ariel82]

I said no such thing. There is no need to twist the message of departing from known iniquity in repentance into "being perfect in and of themselves."

You just blew off the Bible and twisted what I wrote into a fiction which you can easily dismiss.

yeah seems to be happening a lot on both sides of the debate. the whole "twisting" what another writes into a fiction which can be easily dismiss.

normally I would ignore you, but I read one of your posts where you said you were researching and trying to learn about the topic of atonement and thought perhaps you weren't just a brainwashed parrot and that God was trying to lead and teach you after all.

I really don't like the standing in the gap website you and Tommy like to quote because its full of lies but I would like to know what you think about what you call "unpresumptous sin" and what happens when a believer commits such sin?

In addition I don't think "salvation" is just one event that happens when one professes Christ as your Lord and Savior. I believe in the saying that I was saved, I am being saved and I will be saved. In that I was saved and justified by Jesus death on the cross and now being saved by the Holy Spirit's work in my life and I will be saved when the full adoption occurs with the redemption of our bodies at the resurrection.

Past tense: Jesus mediates the New covenant for the priopiation and atonement of sins, cleansing us with His blood
Present tense: the Holy Spirit guides and adds to our faith towards the upward calling
Future Tense: new Heaven and New Earth where His children will have NEW bodies and no death or tears.

so I've read where you make the distinction between "willful sin" and "unpresumptious sin."

however what exactly is "unpresumptious sin"?

because from the sound of it, it seems as if there is some sins you think will NOT lead to death?

 

[mark54]

This is why we are to die to the law and I said this in my post what is it you are looking for?

I will wait for Skinsky to give his opinion befopre replying. As he often refers to the 'wretch of Rom7' I am sure he will want to debate the chapter and give his thoughts on this

 

[Ariel82]

ooo i want to wait and see too

 

[zone]

in and of the flesh this is a fact in and of the Spirit of God it states this all over the place Romans 6 as one example shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid don't you know those that have been baptized into Christ Jesus are baptized with him into his death with him.
Now baptisnm here is not water baptism it is Baptism of the Holy Ghost with fire in order to burn out ones sinful nature that we all were originally born with

who told you this?

 

[zone]

I am hoping homewardbound will respond to a question I asked him. It concerns what you wrote. I would like to ask you the same question

What caused the 'wretch of Rom 7' (to use your words) to be in the state he was in?
Thank you

bump.
here's where the rubber meets the road.

edit:
spoiler alert
sorry mark

 

[cfultz3]

Time for the broom soon...

That is what I say too. He quotes Scripture way too much for my taste too

 

[zone]

I don't claim that when one comes to Christ through repentance and faith is "perfect" in the sense that they are "perfectly holy" or "perfect in wisdom and understanding."

if that were true, i would be in agreement with you.
but it isn't.

you do claim it. your rubbish is everywhere.

you're just getting smarter about hiding it.

you fail the ONE single true test of whether or not you are a brother.
repeatedly.

 

[cfultz3]

You'll need more than one broom.

Let us get rid of that Bible quoting monster