oh wow.
if you keep listening to certain people, you're going to end up completely deluded and lose the grace you started with.
i have no idea why these perfectionism heresies are permitted for so long.
stop talking about Jesus Christ and just go back to Moses.
if you think you are EVER serving God perfectly, it's already over for you.
what is Christ NOW?
an example from the past?
everyone who keeps perpetuating this tinkering with the word PERFECT is teetering on eating the very same fruit Adam ate and DIED from.
find out what perfect means for a SAVED MAN and then compare it to THE PERFECT GOD.
can we please get serious?
Let's examine this post in the light of Scripture and reason.
Zone sticks the label of "perfectionist heresy" to the teaching that "obedience to the truth is mandatory."
I think Zone ought specifically DEFINE what she means by "perfectionist heresy" in her own words instead of simply just banding the term around in an Ad Hominem way.
Is the cessation of rebellion in repentance "perfectionism"? I don't think so. When one forsakes their rebellion to God through a broken godly sorrow which worked a repentance unto salvation I don't think that individual is "perfect."
This "perfectionism heresy" seems to me like a strawman label which is used as a cover to denigrate the repentance message in order to make an allowance for ongoing rebellion.
Let's look at the word "Perfect" in the Bible.
Jesus said this...
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Perfect - G5046 -teleios
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.
Paul taught this...
Php 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already
perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be
perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Php 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
In the above passage the word "perfect" is used in verse 12 and 15. In the Greek those are two different words.
The first use is in the context of the resurrection of the dead and glorification. This word simply means perfect in the sense of the "end of something" and it can be used in many an application.
Perfect -G5048 - teleioō
From G5046; to complete, that is, (literally) accomplish, or (figuratively) consummate (in character): - consecrate, finish, fulfil, (make) perfect.
The second use is in the context of something Paul claims to have already achieved and it is the same word Jesus used in Mat 5:48.
Perfect - G5046 - teleios
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.
Were Jesus and Paul preaching a "perfectionist heresy" in these instances? Or were they teaching that one's moral character can indeed be perfect? I think the answer is clear.
What was the context of Jesus statement in Mat 5:48?
First of all Jesus described some characteristics of the people of God.
Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Jesus then taught that he came to fulfill the law and not void it. He also clearly stated that our righteousness must exceed that of the Scribes and Pharisees.
Mat 5:17 Think not that
I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That
except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Then Jesus explains further...
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
In the above passage Jesus refers to the "letter of the law" of "thou shalt not kill" but gives an expanded application relative to the "heart" because He ties "anger" to "murder."
Likewise Jesus does the same thing for adultery...
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
What was the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees? Jesus described it like this...
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
They OUTWARDLY appeared clean but INWARDLY were defiled. Therefore if our righteousness is to exceed that of the scribes and Pharisees we must have the INSIDE of our cup clean.
This is the CLEAR CONTEXT of "be perfect as your heavenly father is perfect."
John wrote thus...
1Jn 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and
he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
1Jn 4:17
Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
1Jn 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
1Jn 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1Jn 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.
John teaches that if we dwell in love we actually dwell in God and that God also dwells in us. It is in this that our love is made perfect or complete.
Is this perfectionist heresy too?
What about this...
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but
faith which worketh by love.
Is a faith which works by love that upholds the law perfectionist heresy?
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law
through faith? God forbid: yea,
we establish the law.
Obviously righteousness is not of the deeds of the law. The Pharisees sought their righteousness in the deeds of the law but negated the aspect of LOVE FROM THEIR HEART thus outwardly they may not literally murder but inwardly they hated. Outwardly they may not literally commit adultery but inwardly they lusted.
Paul taught this...
Gal 5:14 For all
the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Jesus taught that He came to fulfill the law (Mat 5:17). Paul taught that by walking after the Spirit we fulfill the righteousness of the law.
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Is that perfectionist heresy?
The fruit of the Spirit is love.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
What is the opposite of walking in love? It is this...
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Is it any wonder that the Bible teaches that one must depart from iniquity.
Is teaching that it is MANDATORY that one must depart from iniquity perfectionist heresy?
Paul says this...
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
and this...
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Can one be doing the above if they are still engaged in willful transgression? Is someone who is still in rebellion to God walking in the Spirit? Is walking in the Spirit MANDATORY? If one must depart from iniquity in order to WALK in the Spirit does that mean the departure from iniquity is mandatory?
Did the Prodigal Son have to depart from the pig pen or was he saved in the pig pen? Read Luke 15 to find out.
What does this verse mean?
Jas 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
Jas 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Is that "perfectionist heresy"?
What exactly is perfectionist heresy Zone? Please lay it out and with Scripture.
The Bible also speaks of the "perfecting of the saints."
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Is this perfecting of the saints "rebelling less and less" or has the rebellion already ceased? I think clearly the rebellion has already ceased because a Saint has ESCAPED THE CORRUPTION IN THE WORLD THROUGH LUST.
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature,
having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
The lust that draws people into sin (Jam 1:14-15) the lusts which those who are Christ's have crucified (Gal 5:24) when their old man died whereby the body of sin was done away with (Rom 6:6) that they no longer serve sin (Rom 6:7, Rom 6:16-18).
Which puts them in a state whereby they can "add diligently to their faith"...
2Pe 1:5 And beside this,
giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
I don't claim that when one comes to Christ through repentance and faith is "perfect" in the sense that they are "perfectly holy" or "perfect in wisdom and understanding."
I simply claim that the REBELLION TO GOD HAS CEASED.
If one is in rebellion then they must forsake that rebellion and return to God.
Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
Jas 4:9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.
Jas 4:10
Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.