Christ is God

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Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,791
13,422
113
Yes Christ is fully God.
Good. At least the possibility of that heresy is put to rest.

John 3:16 calls Jesus the only begotten Son of God. However, many people use the phrase “eternal Son.” Is this latter phrase correct? No. The Bible never uses it, and it expresses a concept contradicted by Scripture. ... The word begotten is a form of the verb beget, which means “to procreate, to father, to sire.”
The English word "begotten" does not capture the meaning of monogenes. There isn't a single English word that does. "One of a kind" is close; I've heard "species-unique" as well. There is no other like Jesus; He is in a relationship with the Father that is neither shared nor duplicated.

“Son of God” refers to the humanity of Jesus. Clearly the humanity of Jesus is not eternal but was born in Bethlehem. One can speak of external existence in past, present, and future only with respect to God. Since “Son of God” refers to humanity or to deity as manifest in humanity, the idea of an eternal Son is incomprehensible. The Son of God had a beginning.
The Sonship—or the role of the Son—began with the child conceived in the womb of Mary. The Scriptures make this perfectly clear. Galatians 4:4 says, “But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law.” The Son came in the fullness of time—not in eternity past. The Son was made of a woman—not begotten eternally. The Son was made under the law—not before the law. (See also Hebrews 7:28.) The term begotten refers to the conception of Jesus described in Matthew 1:18-20 and Luke 1:35. The Son of God was begotten when the Spirit of God miraculously caused conception to take place in the womb of Mary. This is evident from the very meaning of the word begotten and also from Luke 1:35, which explains that because the Holy Ghost would overshadow Mary, therefore her child would be the Son of God. We should notice the future tense in this verse: the child to be born “shall be called the Son of God.”
There's just one nagging problem with your position: Psalm 2:12 "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you be destroyed in your way." Either the Sonship of Jesus did not begin at the Incarnation, or Psalm 2 is not Scripture.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,615
13,020
113
He is in a relationship with the Father that is neither shared nor duplicated.
"Uniquely begotten" would be equivalent to monogenes. Calvin -- for all his errors -- interprets this correctly: "He calls him the Only-begotten, because he is the only Son of God by nature; as if he would place him above men and angels, and would claim for him alone what belongs to no creature."
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,691
13,135
113
There's just one nagging problem with your position: Psalm 2:12 "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you be destroyed in your way." Either the Sonship of Jesus did not begin at the Incarnation, or Psalm 2 is not Scripture.
Proverbs 30:4​
Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What [is] His name, and what [is] His Son's name,
If you know?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,691
13,135
113
Proverbs 30:4
Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Proverbs 30:4 uniquely identities the One Who has ascended and to heaven and descended from heaven as the One True God.

John 3:13​
No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
in John 3:13 Jesus Christ identifies Himself to Nicodemus as exactly the same and only One Who has descended and ascended. see also Judges 13


--> Christ is God
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,747
1,157
113
Proverbs 30:4​
Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What [is] His name, and what [is] His Son's name,
If you know?
some other good rhetorical questions based in scripture ---

Who has held the oceans in his hands?
Who has numbered every grain of sand?
Kings and nations tremble at his voice
All creation rises to rejoice

Who has given counsel to the Lord?
Who can question any of his words?
Who can teach, the one who knows all things?
Who can fathom all his wondrous deeds?

Who has felt the nails upon his hands?
Bearing all the guilt of sinful man
God eternal, humbled to the grave
Jesus, Savior, risen now to reign

Behold our God, seated on his throne
Come, let us adore him
Behold our king, nothing can compare
Come, let us adore him



 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,248
6,540
113
Proverbs 30:4​
Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What [is] His name, and what [is] His Son's name,
If you know?
I know, you know, and I hope and pray all know. If any do not, they certainly will. God bless you PH.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,886
5,172
113
Yes Christ is fully God. Too many people focus on that and forget He is also fully human in every way. The Word according to John Chapter 1 is God and is eternal.

Look again at this term to distinguish it in usage from the term Son. The Word or Logos can mean the plan, thought, or mind of God. The Incarnation was a predestined plan—an absolutely certain future event—and therefore it had a reality attached to it that no human thought could ever have. The Word can also mean the plan or thought of God as expressed in the flesh, that is, in the Son. What is the difference, therefore, between the two terms “Word” and “Son”? The Word had preexistence and the Word was God (the Father), so we can use this term without reference to humanity. However, the Son always refers to the Incarnation, and we cannot speak of the Son in the absence of the human element. Except as a foreordained plan in the mind of God, the Son did not have preexistence before the conception in the womb of Mary. The Son of God preexisted in thought but not in substance. The Bible calls this foreordained revelation the Word (John 1:1, 14).

Begotten Son or Eternal Son?

John 3:16 calls Jesus the only begotten Son of God. However, many people use the phrase “eternal Son.” Is this latter phrase correct? No. The Bible never uses it, and it expresses a concept contradicted by Scripture. The word begotten is a form of the verb beget, which means “to procreate, to father, to sire.” Thus begotten indicates a definite point in time—the point at which conception takes place. By definition, the begetter (father) always must come before the begotten (offspring). There must be a time when the begetter exists and the begotten is not yet in existence, and there must be a point in time when the act of begetting occurs. Otherwise the word begotten has no meaning. So, the very words begotten and Son each contradict the word eternal as applied to the Son of God.

“Son of God” refers to the humanity of Jesus. Clearly the humanity of Jesus is not eternal but was born in Bethlehem. One can speak of external existence in past, present, and future only with respect to God. Since “Son of God” refers to humanity or to deity as manifest in humanity, the idea of an eternal Son is incomprehensible. The Son of God had a beginning.

The Sonship—or the role of the Son—began with the child conceived in the womb of Mary. The Scriptures make this perfectly clear. Galatians 4:4 says, “But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law.” The Son came in the fullness of time—not in eternity past. The Son was made of a woman—not begotten eternally. The Son was made under the law—not before the law. (See also Hebrews 7:28.) The term begotten refers to the conception of Jesus described in Matthew 1:18-20 and Luke 1:35. The Son of God was begotten when the Spirit of God miraculously caused conception to take place in the womb of Mary. This is evident from the very meaning of the word begotten and also from Luke 1:35, which explains that because the Holy Ghost would overshadow Mary, therefore her child would be the Son of God. We should notice the future tense in this verse: the child to be born “shall be called the Son of God.”
“We should notice the future tense in this verse: the child to be born “shall be called the Son of God.”

the son of God , is the father in heaven revealed to mankind in the flesh so we can know him In Truth. He is the eternal God revealing himself so everyone can know him who believes the gospel

he is eternal. Only he was revealed to us on earth in the flesh at the appoonted time hidden beforehand and also after in the heavens

what I’m saying is

The LORD is in his holy temple, The LORD's throne is in heaven: His eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭11:4‬ ‭

The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, And seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: There is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭14:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke. According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence.

So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59:15-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; From heaven did the LORD behold the earth; To hear the groaning of the prisoner; To loose those that are appointed to death; To declare the name of the LORD in Zion, And his praise in Jerusalem;”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭102:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

My point is it’s not that Jesus didn’t exist before it’s just that he was in heaven beforehand came into earth as a man as one of us , then returned to his eternal glory having created tbat intercessor we didnt have that man that never existed

“the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor:”

jesus became the solution to what mankind didn’t have but he’s the one speaking it all beforehand from heaven is the thing he would become a man creating an intercessor so now this is the case not like then

“Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:34-35, 37

Now we do have an intercessor and advocate a on our behalf one that is worthy because he is our lord and God who came to save us laying down his glory but taking it up again

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now there is truth not as before

“truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. “

“Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There is judgement now

“And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see;

and that they which see might be made blind.”
‭‭John‬ ‭9:39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What I’m saying is he is one , God became one of us establishing our intercessor he himself became flesh To intercede Jesus is eternal but there are different stages to his plans for creation so he’s revealed himself in three forms Father in heaven . Son on earth . Holy Ghost in our hearts through faith in the son
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
7,910
1,459
113
67
Brighton, MI
Yes Christ is fully God. Too many people focus on that and forget He is also fully human in every way. The Word according to John Chapter 1 is God and is eternal.

Look again at this term to distinguish it in usage from the term Son. The Word or Logos can mean the plan, thought, or mind of God. The Incarnation was a predestined plan—an absolutely certain future event—and therefore it had a reality attached to it that no human thought could ever have. The Word can also mean the plan or thought of God as expressed in the flesh, that is, in the Son. What is the difference, therefore, between the two terms “Word” and “Son”? The Word had preexistence and the Word was God (the Father), so we can use this term without reference to humanity. However, the Son always refers to the Incarnation, and we cannot speak of the Son in the absence of the human element. Except as a foreordained plan in the mind of God, the Son did not have preexistence before the conception in the womb of Mary. The Son of God preexisted in thought but not in substance. The Bible calls this foreordained revelation the Word (John 1:1, 14).

Begotten Son or Eternal Son?

John 3:16 calls Jesus the only begotten Son of God. However, many people use the phrase “eternal Son.” Is this latter phrase correct? No. The Bible never uses it, and it expresses a concept contradicted by Scripture. The word begotten is a form of the verb beget, which means “to procreate, to father, to sire.” Thus begotten indicates a definite point in time—the point at which conception takes place. By definition, the begetter (father) always must come before the begotten (offspring). There must be a time when the begetter exists and the begotten is not yet in existence, and there must be a point in time when the act of begetting occurs. Otherwise the word begotten has no meaning. So, the very words begotten and Son each contradict the word eternal as applied to the Son of God.

“Son of God” refers to the humanity of Jesus. Clearly the humanity of Jesus is not eternal but was born in Bethlehem. One can speak of external existence in past, present, and future only with respect to God. Since “Son of God” refers to humanity or to deity as manifest in humanity, the idea of an eternal Son is incomprehensible. The Son of God had a beginning.

The Sonship—or the role of the Son—began with the child conceived in the womb of Mary. The Scriptures make this perfectly clear. Galatians 4:4 says, “But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law.” The Son came in the fullness of time—not in eternity past. The Son was made of a woman—not begotten eternally. The Son was made under the law—not before the law. (See also Hebrews 7:28.) The term begotten refers to the conception of Jesus described in Matthew 1:18-20 and Luke 1:35. The Son of God was begotten when the Spirit of God miraculously caused conception to take place in the womb of Mary. This is evident from the very meaning of the word begotten and also from Luke 1:35, which explains that because the Holy Ghost would overshadow Mary, therefore her child would be the Son of God. We should notice the future tense in this verse: the child to be born “shall be called the Son of God.”
There are three primary uses for the word logos in the New Testament:

  1. Logos in its standard meaning designates a word, speech, or the act of speaking (Acts 7:22
    ).
  2. Logos in its special meaning refers to the special revelation of God to people (Mark 7:13
    ).
  3. Logos in its unique meaning personifies the revelation of God as Jesus the Messiah (John 1:14
    ).
https://www.logos.com/grow/greek-word-logos-meaning/#meaning