Christ kept the Law of Moses, so....

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justahumanbeing

Well-known member
Mar 25, 2020
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Two things:

One, Jesus' ministry was entirely undertaken under the Sinai covenant, the "Law". His teaching must be interpreted in the correct context.

Two: your third paragraph employs a false dichotomy. You imply that Christians who believe we are not under the Law are profligate sinners with no care for holiness.

Read Hebrews 8.
Then why would Jesus reaffirm the Commandments and ask people to keep them in the Gospel? Explain please. I don't think the law is obsolete if Jesus says it isn't.
 

GRACE_ambassador

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Feb 22, 2021
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Therefore, if we are "Spirit filled Christians", we must live a life like Christ.

So, those of you looking for a free pass? It isn't like how you want it. It is always how God wants it. Just so you're all clear on that. No easy way out. The Law is in full effect. On the day of Judgement as a Christian, imagine any Christian giving a naive answer to God saying,"God you abolished the Law of Moses, the 10 Commandments". That's why that terrible day is called the day of The Lord's anger. Day of Judgement. The second coming of our Lord Jesus. And No one escapes from it. No one.
So, only "spirit-filled" who MUST "live a life like Christ" have the "free" pass,
and believers who fail (man's criteria) have Eternal Condemnation? =
"no one escapes, no one"?​

Then what do you do with "always How God Wants It," When He Plainly Said, In
Scripture?:


Rom_5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the FREE GIFT.​
For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more​
The Grace of God, and The Gift BY Grace, Which is By One Man,
Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.​
Rom_5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is The
Gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but​
The FREE GIFT is of many offences unto justification.​
Rom_5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came​
upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness​
of one The FREE GIFT came upon all men unto justification of life.​

Amazing to me is, God Said It THREE Times, Yet man tells me it is not true?

And, How God Wants The Following 12-Dozen Scriptures To Further
Clearly Confirm What
He Plainly Said?:


God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ
+
God's Eternal Assurance

Scripturally, Because Of This FULL Expense Payment Already Made!:
__~_~__~ - ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓​

And, Is it not Also true, that believers In The Body Of Christ, who
did not "live like Christ" are going to Be Saved, But "lose rewards"
At The Judgment Seat Of Christ (1Co 3:8-15):
v 15: "If any man's [bad] work shall be burned, he shall​
suffer loss: but he himself Shall Be Saved; yet so as by fire."​

How does God Say "That is ETERNAL Condemnation," since that is for
UNbelievers (of all ages), At The Great White Throne Judgment in
Rev 20:11-15?

Conclusion: Mixing Up Two Different "Judgments" Cannot be "good,"
but Is "Bad works," Correct?
--------------------
Precious friend(s):

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
(+ I and II)!
 
Oct 31, 2015
2,290
588
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Really?

Jesus did indeed abolish the Old Law by dying on the Cross. But Jesus kept all the 10 Commandments and encouraged those who wished to learn from Him to live those commandments throughout their lives.

In fact Jesus reaffirms what is given us in the commandments even firmly.

16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Matthew Chapter 5: 16-30

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Matthew Chapter 19:16-26

“Think not that I am come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. Matthew Chapter 5:17.

Since it is all fulfilled in Jesus, we believe that through Jesus, we keep the commandments. Just as He did during His time. You cannot do the opposite of what is given in the 10 commandments and say that Jesus died so you don't have to keep the commandments.

As for the Sabbath, the Jewish Sabbath day falls between Friday and Saturday of our Global calendar. So that was the Sabbath day. But the new Sabbath day of rest is Jesus Himself.

Yet here's what the Bible says regarding that too.

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. Romans Chapter 14:5

Therefore the Sabbath still is a Holy day of rest. It is one of the 10 commandments and if we revere Our God we will treat it as such. The context which Jesus used to describe should be taken into account because of what the Pharisees and the Teachers of the Law at Jesus' time was saying. And Jesus said that "Man was not made for the Sabbath but the Sabbath for Man. The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."

Rethink what you said. Abolished? Not likely.

You forgot something when quoting Matthew 5:17.

You forgot verse 18.


Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18


I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.


Jesus said He came to fulfill the law.


Do you believe that Jesus fulfilled the law, as He plainly said He came to do?


Nothing will pass from the law until it is fulfilled.


The law was fulfilled on the cross, and therefore has been abolished.


For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. Ephesians 2:14-16



And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
Colossians 2:13-17



Until is the key here in Matthew 5:17-18


Paul understood this clearly.


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19



We are to keep His commandments for sure. The ones written on our heart and mind.


The sabbath according to the law of Moses was kept as such —


Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 31:15


Do you believe we are to put people to death for picking up sticks to kindle a fire on the Sabbath?





JPT
 

justahumanbeing

Well-known member
Mar 25, 2020
465
257
63
So, only "spirit-filled" who MUST "live a life like Christ" have the "free" pass,
and believers who fail (man's criteria) have Eternal Condemnation? =
"no one escapes, no one"?​

Then what do you do with "always How God Wants It," When He Plainly Said, In
Scripture?:


Rom_5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the FREE GIFT.​
For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more​
The Grace of God, and The Gift BY Grace, Which is By One Man,
Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.​
Rom_5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is The
Gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but​
The FREE GIFT is of many offences unto justification.​
Rom_5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came​
upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness​
of one The FREE GIFT came upon all men unto justification of life.​

Amazing to me is, God Said It THREE Times, Yet man tells me it is not true?

And, How God Wants The Following 12-Dozen Scriptures To Further
Clearly Confirm What
He Plainly Said?:


God's OPERATION On all HIS New-born babes In Christ
+
God's Eternal Assurance

Scripturally, Because Of This FULL Expense Payment Already Made!:
__~_~__~ - ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓ ↓​

And, Is it not Also true, that believers In The Body Of Christ, who
did not "live like Christ" are going to Be Saved, But "lose rewards"
At The Judgment Seat Of Christ (1Co 3:8-15):
v 15: "If any man's [bad] work shall be burned, he shall​
suffer loss: but he himself Shall Be Saved; yet so as by fire."​

How does God Say "That is ETERNAL Condemnation," since that is for
UNbelievers (of all ages), At The Great White Throne Judgment in
Rev 20:11-15?

Conclusion: Mixing Up Two Different "Judgments" Cannot be "good,"
but Is "Bad works," Correct?
--------------------
Precious friend(s):

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided
(+ I and II)!
What I meant was if a Christian is going to sin, Knowing it is a sin that breaks the commandments saying "Christ had died for my Sins, so I don't have to worry. Then yes. That particular Christian is prone to Judgement.

For Example: You shall not kill.

The Christian goes and kills somebody. Then says, "God has died for my sins so I don't have to worry." The Law is dead. Now that's dangerous way live a life as a Christian. That's no Christian in the first place. Because his or her actions say otherwise.

I read a few comments before my last one to which you replied and it was in response to those comments. Because I don't want a brother or a sister in Christ to think that the 10 Commandments don't mean a thing.

To me the 10 Commandments is like a moral compass which God gave man. My understanding and the way I grew up in faith is such and I don't think it's wrong. It makes a Christian better is what I believe. That's what the passages I quoted from the Bible from the Gospels. and the Pauline letters gives and my understanding.

It's what I believe. Don't worry. My intention is not to force it on anyone.

Anyway. I'm calling it day.

You guys want to see all black and red in what I said, Go ahead.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Then why would Jesus reaffirm the Commandments and ask people to keep them in the Gospel? Explain please. I don't think the law is obsolete if Jesus says it isn't.
Did you read Hebrews 8? It doesn't appear so.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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Well, those who think that Jesus came and died for our sins and Rose from the dead on the 3rd day so that The Law will be abolished are very mistaken. Jesus' death on the Cross breaks the condemnation which the law brings before God's eyes therefore making man reconciled with God because of Jesus' sacrifice. NOTE - Jesus' sacrifice takes away the condemnation because of the Law. The 10 commandments are to be followed as Jesus explains in (Matthew Chapter 5:16-30) More so, because we as "Christians" are expected to walk in "The Spirit of Christ" and not "after the flesh".

This is explained in detail in Romans Chapter 8. Often sadly misinterpreted that "Living in the spirit", means the Law is dead. The Law isn't dead. Rather the condemnation which comes from disobeying "The Law" is dead. Therefore, if we are "Spirit filled Christians", we must live a life like Christ.

So, those of you looking for a free pass? It isn't like how you want it. It is always how God wants it. Just so you're all clear on that. No easy way out. The Law is in full effect. On the day of Judgement as a Christian, imagine any Christian giving a naive answer to God saying,"God you abolished the Law of Moses, the 10 Commandments". That's why that terrible day is called the day of The Lord's anger. Day of Judgement. The second coming of our Lord Jesus. And No one escapes from it. No one.
Who thinks this?

Jesus died so the curse of the law could not condemn us.

If jesus did not die. The law would condemn us all
 
Dec 29, 2022
59
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So, those of you looking for a free pass? It isn't like how you want it. It is always how God wants it. Just so you're all clear on that. No easy way out. The Law is in full effect. On the day of Judgement as a Christian, imagine any Christian giving a naive answer to God saying,"God you abolished the Law of Moses, the 10 Commandments". That's why that terrible day is called the day of The Lord's anger. Day of Judgement. The second coming of our Lord Jesus. And No one escapes from it. No one.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

This is not speaking of the Law of our flesh, but the Law of Moses. Romans 7 talks about another law in our members.

3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,
4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man
, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

How are we made righteous, through obeying the Law or the obedience of faith? My understanding is we can't look at the law and try to obey it without failing. (I think of Nicodemos who was keeping all the commadments in the outward appearance , but when Jesus tested him, he was found covet his own possessions over God) I see it as a heart issue we deal with now by the Spirit leading us to.... for example: not being angry with someone because that is the same as murder. Or lusting after a woman, that's the same as adultery. The commands of Jesus actually keep us from offending all the Law and prophets.
That's why I think He said " you have heard it said of old time" or Moses said, and you've heard it said. But I(Jesus) say unto you.

In summary, I see that we fulfill the law as we walk in Christ's commands. We should try and live by the law of Christ and of faith by the grace and mercy of Almighty God! Amen!
 

GRACE_ambassador

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Feb 22, 2021
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Yahshua

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Sep 22, 2013
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The law requires perfection..

Have you kept that standard?
The law requires obedience. Still does after Cross.

You're arguing against obeying the law as if there wasn't always a mercy seat or blood sprinkled as part of the OT imagery. Obedience is still required but seeking forgiveness for stumbling was always part of the process of growth. It's just that the process would be endless because the blood of animals was always representative and could do nothing to cleanse the inside.

The goal is to become like Christ completely.

Paul and James were pointing out the hypocrisy of those who would tout to be keepers of the law even though they were picking and choosing who they would judge in it, playing favorites, and which laws they would obey. The apostles were making the same point that Messiah was making during his ministry; to not be partial with the law.

They were never making an argument against the law but against its would-be teachers.
 

MessengerofTruth

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Dec 21, 2022
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Do you believe the 10 commandments began with Moses?
I believe that those that walked with GOD from the beginning walked in what was written in the 10 Commandments.

I believe the reason they were written in stone with GOD's own finger was because of transgression because you cannot trust an unregenerated nation to obey from the heart those things.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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The law requires obedience. Still does after Cross.

You're arguing against obeying the law as if there wasn't always a mercy seat or blood sprinkled as part of the OT imagery. Obedience is still required but seeking forgiveness for stumbling was always part of the process of growth. It's just that the process would be endless because the blood of animals was always representative and could do nothing to cleanse the inside.

The goal is to become like Christ completely.

Paul and James were pointing out the hypocrisy of those who would tout to be keepers of the law even though they were picking and choosing who they would judge in it, playing favorites, and which laws they would obey. The apostles were making the same point that Messiah was making during his ministry; to not be partial with the law.

They were never making an argument against the law but against its would-be teachers.
Your comments are inconsistent with biblical teaching.

Paul wrote in Galatians 3,

"Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?"

There is nothing in that passage about picking and choosing which laws to obey.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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Your comments are inconsistent with biblical teaching.

Paul wrote in Galatians 3,

"Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?"

There is nothing in that passage about picking and choosing which laws to obey.
Tisn't, Dino. Going to post snippets of scripture to save on character space but please read the entire passage referenced.

James 2:1-13
1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons...

[...]

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.


Romans 2:17-23
Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;

19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?

23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?


25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.


Paul and James were speaking against the hypocrisy of would-be teachers of the law who were being partial to it (that's what the phrase "whole law" means; don't be partial)...just like Messiah did:


Mathew 23:23-28
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and †anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27 woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness. 28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.



Meanwhile, in Galatians, Paul is addressing a different matter. His point was one no longer needs to perform the tasks of cleansing sin & iniquity (these tasks or "works" MUST happen after each sin that is committed). These were known as the "works" which included: Separating from "unclean" people, cleansings, blood rites, etc. Also found in the law, these "tasks" were what Israel was commanded to do as a rehearsal until the One comes whose job it was to actually do them forreal to cleanse their sin.

...and once He does them, those "tasks"; those works of cleansing sin & iniquity are no longer required to be done because the Person whose tasks they ARE as high priest is currently doing them, in heaven...to continue to do so is to not have faith in Christ doing the work (faith, because we can not see Him doing them).


In the law there are:

A) The Commandments to obey to not commit sin = to REMAIN "just" in the eyes of the law = Our job
B) The Works to perform to settle sin once committed = To RESTORE one's right standing with the law = Justification =Christ's Job


The controversy is mentioned in Galatians 2:11

11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when [The Jews] were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.


...and being a leader, the rest of the Jews who were with Peter followed suit...


Gal 2:13
And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.


Paul explains his point in Galatians 2:15-16

15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


Again Justified means To RESTORE one's right standing with the law after they have sinned. Because the "tasks" were only rehearsals representing the work the Messiah would do in heaven, the only way to restore one's right standing with the law is to have faith in the Messiah doing the work (because we can't see Him doing them). Faith is the evidence of things not seen.

Also, notice the law requires the shedding of blood to cleanse sin (i.e. death). So by faith in Christ, we also provide that death that satisfies the payment we owe to restore us to right standing. This is why Paul says "through the law, I am dead to the law" in verses 19 and 20. His phrase doesn't mean "the law is dead to me" or that "the law is dead" as I feel some are interpreting it.

Galatians only deals with Part B, the remedy for committed sin; justification. It's not talking about Part A; obedience (i.e., avoiding sinning). This is why EVERYWHERE forgiveness of sin is mentioned the next instructions are to "sin no more", or why scripture says our patience is to "have faith" (in Christ, for justification) and "obey the commandments". When we are made right we are to walk rightly (as we are given all the gifts to do so after being saved: grace, Holy Spirit, mercy, 5-fold ministry, etc).


Romans 2:12-13
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
 
Jun 5, 2020
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Then why would Jesus reaffirm the Commandments and ask people to keep them in the Gospel? Explain please. I don't think the law is obsolete if Jesus says it isn't.
It is always important to understand Scripture in context. To whom was Jesus speaking? The Jews, who were living under the Old Covenant. After His sacrificial death, we are living under a New Covenant and and are free from the law.

Romans 7:1-6, "Or do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law is binding on a person only during that person’s lifetime? Thus a married woman is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives, but if her husband dies, she is discharged from the law concerning the husband. Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she belongs to another man while her husband is alive. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she belongs to another man, she is not an adulteress."

"In the same way, my brothers and sisters, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. But now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we are enslaved in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the written code."
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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Tisn't, Dino. Going to post snippets of scripture to save on character space but please read the entire passage referenced.

James 2:1-13
1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons...

[...]

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.


Romans 2:17-23
Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;

19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.

21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?

23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.


Paul and James were speaking against the hypocrisy of would-be teachers of the law who were being partial to it (that's what the phrase "whole law" means; don't be partial)...just like Messiah did:


Mathew 23:23-28
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and †anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. 26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27 woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness. 28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.


Meanwhile, in Galatians, Paul is addressing a different matter. His point was one no longer needs to perform the tasks of cleansing sin & iniquity (these tasks or "works" MUST happen after each sin that is committed). These were known as the "works" which included: Separating from "unclean" people, cleansings, blood rites, etc. Also found in the law, these "tasks" were what Israel was commanded to do as a rehearsal until the One comes whose job it was to actually do them forreal to cleanse their sin.

...and once He does them, those "tasks"; those works of cleansing sin & iniquity are no longer required to be done because the Person whose tasks they ARE as high priest is currently doing them, in heaven...to continue to do so is to not have faith in Christ doing the work (faith, because we can not see Him doing them).


In the law there are:

A) The Commandments to obey to not commit sin = to REMAIN "just" in the eyes of the law = Our job
B) The Works to perform to settle sin once committed = To RESTORE one's right standing with the law = Justification =Christ's Job


The controversy is mentioned in Galatians 2:11

11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. 12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when [The Jews] were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.


...and being a leader, the rest of the Jews who were with Peter followed suit...


Gal 2:13
And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.


Paul explains his point in Galatians 2:15-16

15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


Again Justified means To RESTORE one's right standing with the law after they have sinned. Because the "tasks" were only rehearsals representing the work the Messiah would do in heaven, the only way to restore one's right standing with the law is to have faith in the Messiah doing the work (because we can't see Him doing them). Faith is the evidence of things not seen.

Also, notice the law requires the shedding of blood to cleanse sin (i.e. death). So by faith in Christ, we also provide that death that satisfies the payment we owe to restore us to right standing. This is why Paul says "through the law, I am dead to the law" in verses 19 and 20. His phrase doesn't mean "the law is dead to me" or that "the law is dead" as I feel some are interpreting it.

Galatians only deals with Part B, the remedy for committed sin; justification. It's not talking about Part A; obedience (i.e., avoiding sinning). This is why EVERYWHERE forgiveness of sin is mentioned the next instructions are to "sin no more", or why scripture says our patience is to "have faith" (in Christ, for justification) and "obey the commandments". When we are made right we are to walk rightly (as we are given all the gifts to do so after being saved: grace, Holy Spirit, mercy, 5-fold ministry, etc).


Romans 2:12-13
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete;

The Sinai covenant is obsolete. We Christians are under a new covenant in Christ's blood.
 

Yahshua

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Sep 22, 2013
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It is always important to understand Scripture in context. To whom was Jesus speaking? The Jews, who were living under the Old Covenant. After His sacrificial death, we are living under a New Covenant and and are free from the law.
But Jaybo you make the point about context, but don't maintain it when reading Romans 7. Agreed, The Jews were living under the Covenant at Sinai. The original context is the Jews' relationship with God. It was their marriage contract to the Living God. That's the context. Remember that the promise of the new covenant was also made to the Jews. The marriage law says that if a husband divorces his wife...and she goes and marries another...she can't then return to her original husband as such is an abomination. Filthy adultery.

The Living God divorced Israel; the first covenant was broken...and Israel took on another husband; many others as she played the harlot. Knowing the law remains in force, there was no way for Israel and the Living God to remarry each other for as long as they lived. There was no way for them to enter into a new covenant.

This is why Paul says he's speaking to those who know the law. His next point was for those who understood the marriage law. Not knowing the law causes this false assumption you're making which is that "under the new covenant, all believers are freed from God's law" when that's incorrect. Israel (The Jew) is freed from the marriage law that restricts Israel from remarrying The Living God.

Christ died and by faith the Jew who believes in Christ also dies. With both parties "dead" both are freed, satisfying the marriage law - still in force - that was keeping them bound, thus making it possible to remarry Israel under a new and better (marriage) covenant else it would've been adultery per the law.

[^Notice how the law is everpresent.]

Gentiles were never married to the Living God by covenant to need to be freed from the law of Marriage to Him. So it's not "we are living under a new covenant..." it's "they are living under a new covenant that we get to participate in" by being grafted in.

Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete;

The Sinai covenant is obsolete. We Christians are under a new covenant in Christ's blood.
Amen.

Covenant.

Particularly, marriage covenant.

Marriage covenants are governed by the law of the state.

When marriage covenants are broken divorce typically follows per the law of the state.

Notice that the law remains regardless of the covenant.

Israel entered into a marriage covenant with The Living God governed by the law of heaven.

Israel broke their covenant and was divorced by God per the law of heaven.

Messiah made a way for Israel to marry God under a new covenant per the law of heaven.

----

A covenant is not the law but an agreement between two parties governed by the law.
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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But Jaybo you make the point about context, but don't maintain it when reading Romans 7. Agreed, The Jews were living under the Covenant at Sinai. The original context is the Jews' relationship with God. It was their marriage contract to the Living God. That's the context. Remember that the promise of the new covenant was also made to the Jews. The marriage law says that if a husband divorces his wife...and she goes and marries another...she can't then return to her original husband as such is an abomination. Filthy adultery.

The Living God divorced Israel; the first covenant was broken...and Israel took on another husband; many others as she played the harlot. Knowing the law remains in force, there was no way for Israel and the Living God to remarry each other for as long as they lived. There was no way for them to enter into a new covenant.

This is why Paul says he's speaking to those who know the law. His next point was for those who understood the marriage law. Not knowing the law causes this false assumption you're making which is that "under the new covenant, all believers are freed from God's law" when that's incorrect. Israel (The Jew) is freed from the marriage law that restricts Israel from remarrying The Living God.

Christ died and by faith the Jew who believes in Christ also dies. With both parties "dead" both are freed, satisfying the marriage law - still in force - that was keeping them bound, thus making it possible to remarry Israel under a new and better (marriage) covenant else it would've been adultery per the law.

[^Notice how the law is everpresent.]

Gentiles were never married to the Living God by covenant to need to be freed from the law of Marriage to Him. So it's not "we are living under a new covenant..." it's "they are living under a new covenant that we get to participate in" by being grafted in.



Amen.

Covenant.

Particularly, marriage covenant.

Marriage covenants are governed by the law of the state.

When marriage covenants are broken divorce typically follows per the law of the state.

Notice that the law remains regardless of the covenant.

Israel entered into a marriage covenant with The Living God governed by the law of heaven.

Israel broke their covenant and was divorced by God per the law of heaven.

Messiah made a way for Israel to marry God under a new covenant per the law of heaven.

----

A covenant is not the law but an agreement between two parties governed by the law.
Exactly, and the law that governs the two parties to the covenant in Christ's blood is not that delivered through Moses on Sinai.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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Exactly, and the law that governs the two parties to the covenant in Christ's blood is not that delivered through Moses on Sinai.
Legislators are fully within their right to amend their laws. But the law isn't nullified to where citizens aren't required to obey.

As a reminder, this is what I originally said which you said was inconsistent with biblical teachings.

The law requires obedience. Still does after Cross.
Heb 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


The law wasn't nullified, it was changed; amended; altered. So what changed in the law? Did the commandments change? No, in fact if we go by what Christ said during His ministry the original version of them were always more stringent.

So what changed in the law? The priestly rites changed (i.e. those "works/tasks" to remedy sin once committed) because the priesthood was no longer earthly.

How did they change? Were they removed? No, they weren't removed they are still required by the law...that's why Messiah still does them now. They were changed to heavenly versions that only He could do in heaven.

None of this changes the fact that we are to be obedient and not sin.
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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Legislators are fully within their right to amend their laws. But the law isn't nullified to where citizens aren't required to obey.

As a reminder, this is what I originally said which you said was inconsistent with biblical teachings.



Heb 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


The law wasn't nullified, it was changed; amended; altered. So what changed in the law? Did the commandments change? No, in fact if we go by what Christ said during His ministry the original version of them were always more stringent.

So what changed in the law? The priestly rites changed (i.e. those "works/tasks" to remedy sin once committed) because the priesthood was no longer earthly.

How did they change? Were they removed? No, they weren't removed they are still required by the law...that's why Messiah still does them now. They were changed to heavenly versions that only He could do in heaven.

None of this changes the fact that we are to be obedient and not sin.
Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete;

OBSOLETE. It has been fulfilled. It is finished.
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
2,915
817
113