Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible

[Stephen63]

What is so sad about this all is that the people who founded the Pentecostals and charismatic movements themselves believed the gifts ENDED and this is a RESTORATION of the gifts.

Pentecostal History Proves Cessation of Spiritual Gifts

8 CommentsPosted by Acidri on March 7, 2011

For over 15 years I grew up a Pentecostal/Charismatic. I have featured these video because of the depth of history they cover. They are not featured in jest or to taunt. But if it provokes some body to read their Bible and search deeper in the Scriptures then it will have at least served a purpose worthy of the calling that this blog was designed to achieve. To the glory of God.

The entire Pentecostal movement was founded upon the idea that the spiritual gifts previously experienced at Pentecost and during the New Testament era had left the church for a time but were now returning to the church. The leaders are quoted as making such statements several times. According to their own teaching this was a “restoration” of gifts that had formerly been lost to the church.

Headlines in their papers read “Pentecostal Baptism Restored” and “Pentecost Has Come.” In these articles they say God was “bringing back the Pentecostal Baptism to the church” and until this time men had only been preaching a “partial gospel.” This clearly reveals that even the founders knew there was NO evidence of tongues or any other spiritual gift in their day and age until they began to experience it. The men who founded the Pentecostal churches in our communities today taught that until they were formed, tongues and other gifts had been taken from the church.



Pentecostal History Proves Cessation of Spiritual Gifts | A Twisted Crown of Thorns ®

The man also posted two videos that SHOW the headlines from the very papers they were writing at that time,which showed they themselves believed this is a restoration of the gifts NOT that they continued from the time of the apostles.

I'm surprised you didn't post this also, because it was on the site too. Maybe you guys can learn a lesson from him.


Ps: I will add that there are still some well meaning and clear thinking Pentecostal and Charismatic Christians with whom I would not hesitate to have fellowship. As long as they realise that we have all been baptised into one body (Christ) by one Spirit (The Holy Spirit) and salvation is only by Repentance alone and Faith alone in Jesus Christ alone.

Funny thing......... This was sandwiched right between the two videos.........

 

[zone]

No argument there. You make a valid point.


Now, ask yourself how did the third wave get into the more liberal Lutheran denominations? The same way. Slackness in the body of Christ allows Satan to sneak in very easily. No denomination is immune. It happens to anybody who slacks and sleeps.



This third wave stuff is everywhere, stretching across all denominational barriers. Everybody is either accepting it, or trying to deal with it. It's not of God. I stand with you on that argument. It's stereotyping across the board and I have a problem with. My sermon for Sunday night was "Enemies in the House of God". It focused on the many methods that Satan is infiltrating the modern church. The text is Galatians 2:1-5, expository style.


I showed you that to let you know I'm not just one of those " everything goes" Pentecostals. I am very aware of what's going on in the church and in the world. And also on here. Prayer, and the study of the Word is still the only method I use to get a sermon. No web sites, no books, no magazines. That's the way the early church did it.

stephen, i realize you have me on ignore, and that's fine.

you mention the Third Wave stuff. but what about the Second Wave? and the First?
what about the Pentecostal Holiness Movement?
is there really a Second Blessing involving entire sanctification? because if there isn't....what foundation do you have left?

it's awesome that you are openly identifying the Third Wave as an infiltration, and not from God. i honestly commend you for that. your recent posts are really cool.

....

but what are the Third Wavers doing and claiming that your church is not?

it's just a matter of degrees of 'excess', isn't it?

the Third Wave says there is the Five-Fold Ministry. so do you. they claim it's being restored - you said it never ceased.
they claim direct Revelation from God - so do you - if you tolerate and encourage modern prophets, you just do.
speaking in unknown tongues (literally unknown) - same for your church. this was a revelatory gift - more direct revelation.
interpretation of tongues - more direct revelation.

what's the ultimate purpose of experiential stuff crossing denominational boundaries? isn't it ecumenism?

if we believe the gifts have not ceased - how can we say they are not being received by Marians?
would the Holy Spirit pour out the very same gifts and establish the very same offices in a religion which says Mary is Mediatrix between man and Christ? a religion which prays to; worships and believes Mary plays a role in man's salvation?

because we are not going to find any difference at all between the activity and claims made by Marians and pentecostals.
statements of faith will differ...but is that statement of faith worth anything at all if the Holy Spirit doesn't seem to care what people believe and confess, or who they pray to and believe is involved in there salvation?

anyways: TBC here:

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...m-roman-catholicism-charismatic-movement.html < click

 

[zone]

Many think there not blaspheming the Holy Ghost,......... But they are.

do you mean this poster is?:

Quote Originally Posted by Zmouth
mnay tinhk tehy seapk in tgonues, crae to wrie in tonuegs?

or many people who speak in tongues are actually blaspheming?
how do you know if they are or are not?

 

[zone]

TRUE. Self-made Healers can do nothing. Calling themself a healer is usually the red flag that they are false. True christians call themselves SERVANTS, & walk that talk.

so now we are covering up the titles for people who claim to have the gift of: prophecy, healing, tongues etc?
or just in this instance, because it's one that's so hard to back up?

walk that talk? what does that mean?

they never talk about their gift of healing?
come on. pentecostal churches have people identified as persons with a gift of healing - right?
and walking that talk means they go about exercising their gift - right? if not...do they even have a gift?

if someone has the gift of healing, are they not gifted specifically to heal?
that makes them a healer - just like a prophet would be a prophet.

so, you're saying of course, and i would agree, that a prophet doesn't just prophesy anytime he feels like it - God would have to be sending a message. they person is still a prophet, though. and hearing directly from and speaking for God.

same as one with a gift of healing:

True believers can't do it whenever they want to.

what happens that makes them able to heal?
God sends them a message that person A is to be healed? - direct revelation?

or do they pray in faith, according to His will that person A be healed?
does this require a gift?
or does it require faith and trust in God that He will do according to His will?
so how does the gift of healing differ from the cessationist's prayers for healing?

Matthew 13:53-58 (KJV) [SUP]53 [/SUP]And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these parables, he departed thence. [SUP]54 [/SUP]And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? [SUP]55 [/SUP]Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas? [SUP]56 [/SUP]And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things? [SUP]57 [/SUP]And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house. [SUP]58 [/SUP]And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
[/SIZE]Luke 5:17 (KJV) [SUP]17 [/SUP]And it came to pass on a certain day, as he was teaching, that there were Pharisees and doctors of the law sitting by, which were come out of every town of Galilee, and Judaea, and Jerusalem: and the power of the Lord was present to heal them.
Ecclesiastes 3:3 (KJV) [SUP]3 [/SUP]A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

you're posting about Jesus.

could you post about today's people healing and being healed (the same way and to the full and undeniable extent Jesus healed) - when He did heal?

 

[notuptome]

There is no command or law or ordinance that says Jesus cannot heal a sinner, in fact it still happens today.

How are you defining a sinner? Jesus healed those who believed in Him. Jesus did not heal unbelievers. Scripture states that God does not hear sinners. John 9:31
Jesus came to save those who believe in Him. The body profits nothing if the soul is lost.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

It's not languages.

No man understands it, that's why there needs to be an interpreter. The gift of tongues does not interpret itself. It is the language of angels, those who speak tongues speak to God, our minds don't even understand it.

It's a prayer language.

Paul states all these things in 1 co 14.

This is why Paul said he would rather speak 5 words of prophesy than 1000 in tongues. This is guideline of love guiding the gifts.

It doesn't mean tongues is wrong, it means that each gift has its place as the Spirit wills and as love leads.

You said we have to disagree with each other to agree with the Lord? But here's what NT Scripture tells us...

1 Thess 5:19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not despise prophecies. 21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

Hold fast what is good. Test it yes, but don't worry about the things you don't agree with, seek unity not disunity. We are lead by the Spirit in us, not by continually disagreeing and debating with one another.

It's like eating fish, eat the meat and spit out the bones. When's the last time your mind was changed during a debate? From my limited involvement in these threads, I have yet to see anyone's mind changed. At least not the people who continually post threads and ignore questions.

So you believe in the gift of healing, but not healers. Interesting. So when Jesus told us to go out and heal the sick, He didn't really mean it? And when He told the apostles to teach all He commanded He didn't mean that either? And when He said whosoever believeth on Me, will do the things I did, He didn't mean that?

That's a lot of Scripture that needs to be thrown out to fit a tradition of man. Especially since anyone can see that 1 co 13 and 1 co 14 are talking about love, not completed Scripture.

And without that Scripture there is nothing that indicates prophesy has ceased. Nor tongues, nor prophetic knowledge. I have been out on the street and had prophetic insight on peoples lives, God likes to use this to reveal the secrets of the hearts of men, yes we win souls for Christ with the gifts as well.

And yes, winning souls is critical and so is building up believers. And so is expanding God's Kingdom. The gifts do all these things.

We definitely need more prophesy. I have seen churches with it and without it, and the difference is profound. I understand why Paul said earnest desire all spiritual gifts, especially prophesy.

C.

I'm sorry to say that what I see here is utter foolishness. Paul is using hyperbole when he speaks of angelic tongues. Angels never spoke to men in anything other than a human language. Only the arrogance of man would allow him to believe that he could talk with God in a language that God knows but he does not. Interpreters do not interpret unknowable languages. They invent fantastic tales to please their audience.
The church does not need interpreters but men of understanding to rightly divide the word of God and disciple believers into Gods truth. God gives such men as pastors to the churches that seek them and desire them from God. Many will not endure sound doctrine. Even Jesus had disciple turn back and follow Him no more when He taught doctrine they did not like. John 6:60 something.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[homwardbound]

Every person can hear God! Even if you are a false witness against God's HOLY PEOPLE...

Do you want to hear GOD SPEAK? I know how you can.... Even if you are the worst Christian Slayer... God will speak... As He did through ALL HOLY PEOPLE....

Here is the thing Zone and friends still do not get.....

Let us say I am the Holy Person they bring to court for my faith, and they want to NAIL me on FALSE WITNESSES.... Did God not give the ASSURANCE and PROMISE.... FEAR NOT WHEN THEY BRING YOU TO THE MAGISTRATE WHAT YOU SHALL SAY, FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT (GOD) SHALL TEACHYOU WHAT TO SAY RIGHT THERE AND THEN.... GOD WILL DETERMINE THE WORDS NOT YOU!

And that is how you will HEAR GOD'S WORDS.... just like other prophesies... and the WHOLE SCRIPTURE of God.

So did God speak through Paul when he was brought before council? Did God say Paul lived in all good conscience BEFORE GOD!!!! Yes the lord did say that to the WHOLE COUNCIL... THE council that wanted to get rid of Paul heard the WORDS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, NOT Paul's words. God said to the council PAUL LIVED IN ALL GOOD CONSCINCE BEFORE HIM..... I wonder if they believed God? NOPE, just like today, they still would not believe God in the same situation... they did not even believe JESUS!

The scripture to what you said about God leading is: and thank you for that
[h=3]Matthew 10:16-20[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves. [SUP]17 [/SUP]But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; [SUP]18 [/SUP]and ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. [SUP]19 [/SUP]But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

And I believe it is for all that believe here today as well, to be in 100% trust of God the Father as Christ was and is. Justified in the spirit of God. for our justification as well, if we believe God

 

[homwardbound]

Christian Chat Forum Times
September 2013

BEGGAR LAME FROM BIRTH STANDS UP,
WALKS, THEN LEAPS ABOUT!​

photo: Mr. Beggar astounds the world.​

SomePlace (CP): Witnesses today expressed amazement at Mr. Beggar, 40, who without warning and defying all explanation jumped out of the wheelchair he'd been confined to all his life.

"He was lame and paralyzed from birth", the 40 year old man's mother said. "There was no possibility he would ever walk. he never walked or moved his legs a day in his life. we carried him everywhere he went, he never moved a muscle, and his legs were atrophied beyond cure"

The story has gone viral around the world as people seek to find out how Mr. Beggar defied what was a hopeless condition.

Doctors from around the world are currently examining the man, and all medical records to find some explanation for this unprecedented incident.

Dr. Janjay Kupta said medical professionals have no explanation for this amazing phenomenon. "We've looked at the records, examined the history, and there's no question the man was born completely lame 40 years ago, and we've never seen another case like it."

Some people interviewed said they had previously seen the man begging for money on a street corner, when two men passed by. Mr. Beggar apparently asked them for money, but one of the unknown men said "Gold and silver have i none, but what i have, i give to you". What they said after that has not yet been confirmed.

"The next thing we knew", said Mr. Beggar's friend, "was Old Lame was just out of that chair and gone! I can't believe it! I can't believe it! IT'S A MIRACLE"

......

update: Doctors and experts around the world have determined this is nothing short of a miracle. though many have said they can not and will not attribute such a phenomenon to a God, many who witnessed the event have said they have NO DOUBT this was an Act of God.


GOT ANYTHING LIKE THAT?

we're not in Judea without the internet and TV presidente.

Thanks for proving the miracles from God
James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning

 

[brmicke]

Scripturally speaking, tongues is defined in Acts 2:11 as speaking about the "works" or "workings of God".

Ac 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

In Acts 2:11 Peter says that a person speaking in tongues speaks about the "works" of God, and in 1 Cor 14:2 Paul tells us that a person who speaks in "tongues" is speaking about "mysteries".

Since the "works" of God can be considered "mysteries", Peter and Paul are essentially saying the same thing.

Then in Mark 4:11-12 Jesus makes a reference to Paul's definition of speaking in Tongues (from 1 Cor 14:2) when He speaks of "Mysteries" in Mark 4:11, pasted below.

Mr 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

In Mark 4:11 Jesus links the concept of "speaking of the Mysteries of the kingdom of God" with the scriptural form of communication referred to as "speaking in parables".

Jesus here has linked the "conversations about the mysteries of God" with the "conversations where He Himself spoke in Parables".

As Mark 4:11-12 illustrates, a person must accept Christ before they are allowed to understand the truths about the workings of God (how God does things).

Mark 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
Mark 4:12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.all these things are done in parables:

When speaking to the "multitudes" in public there were always believers and unbelievers present. So Jesus used this method of speaking in parables or speaking in tongues so He could relate the truths or mysteries of God (or speak about the works of God) to the group of people but at the same time conceal those mysteries or truths from the unbelievers who were present. If the mysteries of God were too hard for even the disciples to grasp then Jesus explained these mysteries to them privately, Mk 4:34.

Mr 4:34 and without a parable spake he not unto them: but privately to his own disciples he expounded all things.
(ASV)

Brian

 

[zone]

Thanks for proving the miracles from God
James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning

every good gift.
what about counterfeit stuff.

 

[Cobus]

Here is the thing about God's gifts.... I cannot tell God what to give to Stephen, or to Zone or to Homy or to Kerry or to Cobus. I have NO INPUT to God's gifts. If we read 1 Cor 12 we will see HE GIVES AS HE PLEASES. God does not even need my permission to CALL, ELECT or BLESS me.

God is God and I am so glad He is, He need not the permission or council of ANY man or ALL men. God NEEDS NOTHING. He will do as HE WANTS... I cannot tell Him to do ANYTHING! I healed many people in the NAME OF JESUS, but that stopped when God showed me IT WAS NOT HIM that healed the people. Matthew 7:21 to 23... Since then I only did what God wants me to do. And there was few "miricles" and it was ALL HIM and NOTHING me!

Oh there were times when I wanted to pray for sick people, but it was Word and God that kept me in obedience. I have a LORD that led me through all the Sabatical time in isolation to learn from HIM. I have a Lord that doesd not hesitate to send me to give Word to even strangers. I have a Lord that tells me to invite people to my home for supper. I have a Lord that not only tell me to give money to some people, but also how much.

I HEAR my God and I hear His angels. I hear His teachers and Prophets. I hear His Apostles and their teachings. I see visions and I experience PERSONAL TEACHING that goes VERY deep into God's KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM.... Why? Becasue HE WANTS ME TO KNOW AND HEAR AND LEARN AND EXPERIENCE.... It is HIS WILL not mine! I am just VERY humble and thankful that HE IS FAITHFUL.

God made MASSIVE promises to us, and all we have to do is DO AS HE TOLD US TO DO.... God said... We should TEST HIM ON HIS PROMISES... For they ARE ALL IN HIM.... How can a sinner know anything about what Godhas in store for the SAVED SINNER IN HIM? I guess he will never find out, but he can READ about it in the Bible.

I know God's promises ALL COME TRUE... there is not ONE promise god EVER made to ANY MAN, that did not come true, NOT ONE! Oh many NEVER got te the promises, but that was becasue they STATED FAR AWAY FROM HIM... ALL PROMISES ARE IN HIM. Far away is only the promise not the MANIFESTATION of the PROMISE....

May God's promises come true for all of us.... Let's take hands and go GET THEM!!!! IN HIM! Amen!

 

[BradC]

yes you are.

So you must be a 'Red Sox' fan. How interesting yet noble of you to be a fan of a winner instead of some loser like the Yankees.

 

[presidente]

Now when I see scripture "face to face" and when scripture allows me to know "even as I am known". . .then the manifestations of the Spirit have ceased. . . .

I agree with you that gifts have not ceased. Your post reminds me of some other thoughts on the issue.

Where does it even say that the manifestations of the Spirit would cease. If we receive a down payment of the Spirit now, why would the Spirit manifest through us only now and not later? In I Corinthians 13, partial knowledge will be replaced with fuller knowledge. Why wouldn't prophesying in part be replaced by prophesying fully? The 'complete' replaces the 'in part.'

If the passage were about complete scripture coming-- which does not fit the context-- why would the type of prophesying the apostles did cease? If you had a puzzle that is 'in part' you don't make it complete by throwing the pieces you already have on the table away. If scripture made up what was lacking with the gift of prophecy, why would the gift of prophecy need to cease when scripture came? That's another problem with the cessationist argument.

 

[BradC]

Red, could you please tell me:

do you believe in the pretribulation rapture of the church? < false doctrine.

Of course I do <mystery of Christ and the church, what else would Jesus Christ do with his church and body that he has redeemed. Surely he has no plan to take it through a time of great tribulation coming upon the earth or have it chastened with Israel prior to his second coming? Persecution YES!, prior to having been caught away, but great tribulation NO! Why, because of many promises that Christ made with his redeemed body and bride made of both Jew and Gentile of the church who believed in his shed blood from Pentecost until his appearing in the clouds of the air at the pretribulation rapture, that great dispensation of God's outpouring of grace that involves all men in all nations under heaven who come under conviction through the Holy Spirit and believe in the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[zone]

So you must be a 'Red Sox' fan. How interesting yet noble of you to be a fan of a winner instead of some loser like the Yankees.

so what about that pertrib doctrine.
would you run it by me one more time?

you could have a Kathryn Kuhlman / John Hagee mulligan if you need it.

edit - i see you have just addressed it.
thx redster. i'll take a look (again).

 

[directline2iam]

Ac 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

In Acts 2:11 Peter says that a person speaking in tongues speaks about the "works" of God, and in 1 Cor 14:2 Paul tells us that a person who speaks in "tongues" is speaking about "mysteries".

Since the "works" of God can be considered "mysteries", Peter and Paul are essentially saying the same thing./QUOTE brmicke

You are twisting scripture: It was never said that the "works of the Spirit" were mysteries, Paul in that particular verse is saying that if you can't understand a different language, it of a course is a mystery to you. Just like if I told you something in German and all you know is english, it is a mystery to you what I say. Now what I say to you doesn't have to be about the works of God, it could be about washing dishes in dirty water, but it's a mystery to you what I'm saying. The Gifts of the spirit ARE works of the Spirit and they were all explained very well and there was no mystery about it.

 

[presidente]

Sarah wrote,

Again Paul is writing to the church at CORINTH not the First Pentecostal church of Hobooken,NJ. They are still receiving the gifts. When he wrote to them they hadn't ended yet. No church would ever try to make this passage fit their church UNLESS it was happening in their church[/INDENT]

Do you apply the same reasoning to other scripture. When you read 'Love thy neighbor' do you think-- oh that was written to the Israelites in Moses' time. That was was spoken to the rich young ruler. The epistles of John that said to love one another were written to certain audiences. Every letter, every book has some sort of immediate audience. We could argue that none of the New Testament applies to us, or else just pick the pieces we like arbitrarily.


As I pointed out in the OP, Paul says something that speaks to the universality of the commands in the passage. He asks if the word of God went out from Corinth or if it had only come to Corinth. Isaiah predicted that the law of the LORD would go forth from Zion, and it was to Jerusalem that Christ sent the apostles after the resurrection. The Jerusalem church had prophets who did things a certain way. One of them traveled with Paul doing apostolic ministry. There was a certain way of doing it, prophesying that is, a certain order to it. The Corinthians were not the only church to receive the word, and they weren't the only ones to whom it had come, and they did not have the right to re-write the commandments of the Lord for church meetings. So how could we have that right?

It is true that these commandments apply in churches where people have the gifts. Maybe the fault is on the prophet who is in a highly liturgical church who does not speak up when he has a message. It may be on the one who speaks in tongues if he meets with cessationists and does not speak in tongues and interprets. But if the congregation or the leadership forbid obeying the passage, they disobey the commandments in the passage.

If no one is gifted to speak in tongues or prophecy, the church should obey the instructions to allow the ones with a teaching to teach. So often churches disregard that because tradition says that one elder or pastor should give a long sermon, and some churches do not allow for the 'unordained' to obey the Biblical command to let those with a teaching to teach.

 

[zone]

re pretrib:

Of course I do <mystery of Christ and the church, what else would Jesus Christ do with his church and body that he has redeemed. Surely he has no plan to take it through a time of great tribulation coming upon the earth or have it chastened with Israel prior to his second coming? Persecution YES!, prior to having been caught away, but great tribulation NO! Why, because of many promises that Christ made with his redeemed body and bride made of both Jew and Gentile of the church who believed in his shed blood from Pentecost until his appearing in the clouds of the air at the pretribulation rapture, that great dispensation of God's outpouring of grace that involves all men in all nations under heaven who come under conviction through the Holy Spirit and believe in the name of Jesus Christ.

does the Holy Spirit leave with the church?

is this the church leaving (falling away) while "Israel" gets "chastened"?
is this the church?: (taken out of the way)?

2 Thessalonians 2
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

"now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time." < oh. something withholdeth...restraining. hmmm. in paul's day.

let's please find one of the umpteen pretrib threads and we can go through this ridiculous doctrine again. i'll not post again on pretrib here.

h'obviously this one is :

Re: Churches that Don't Allow Tongues and Prophecy in Meetings disobey Bible

 

[BradC]

so what about that pertrib doctrine.
would you run it by me one more time?

you could have a Kathryn Kuhlman / John Hagee mulligan if you need it.

edit - i see you have just addressed it.
thx redster. i'll take a look (again).

You mean these two imperfect sinners saved by grace and made to be vessels of the most high God? I think to touch any servant raised up of God through his own choosing is to touch God's handiwork of grace. I don't know of any servant of God that has been perfect in their ministry, who has not made immature judgements, who has not made decisions and mistakes based on preference instead of maturity in grace through sound doctrine, who has not miserably failed like David only to be lifted up, forgiven and given mercy to be totally restored. I have already used up all my mulligans and do overs which did nothing more than reveal my great need for the grace of God and the Spirit of truth. Did they give false prophecies or utilize tongues in a blasphemous way that you did not approve of?

 

[brmicke]

Hi directlineto Iam -

You have not laid out a scriptural pattern which would lead me to your conclusion. I hope you will try.

I know that you cannot provide a scriptural pattern, your trying to defend your point however will give me a chance to show my reasoning to you by using the Bible and not "experience" or opinion.

Brian