Closing the Gap in Dispensationalism

[reneweddaybyday]

Here's an example of God causing a person to sin. When he hardens hearts it does the same. This has a major effect on scripture if you fail to grasp it.

Your insistence that God causes people to sin has had a "major effect" on your understanding and comprehension of Scripture.

Instead of accusing God of things He does not do and blaming God for mankind's own failures, why don't you read God's Word and ask Him to reveal His Truth to you???

“And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.” 1 Kings 22:19–23 (KJV 1900)

First of all, Ahab was king of Israel; he reigned 22 years in Samaria, and Ahab did evil in the sight of the Lord above all that were before him (1 Kings 16:28-30).

1 Kings 22:

1 And they continued three years without war between Syria and Israel.

2 And it came to pass in the third year, that Jehoshaphat the king of Judah came down to the king of Israel.

3 And the king of Israel said unto his servants, Know ye that Ramoth in Gilead is ours, and we be still, and take it not out of the hand of the king of Syria?

4 And he said unto Jehoshaphat, Wilt thou go with me to battle to Ramothgilead? And Jehoshaphat said to the king of Israel, I am as thou art, my people as thy people, my horses as thy horses.


vs 1 — In 1 Kings 20, we read about war between Syria and Israel. Then in 1 Kings 22:1 we see that there was a period of 3 years with no war.

vs 2 — Jehoshaphat, king of Judah, went to Samaria to Ahab, king of Israel. and just fyi ... according to 2 Chron 17:3-6, Jehoshaphat sought the Lord and walked in His commandments.

vs 3-4 — Ahab spoke to his servants about going in and taking Ramothgilead back from the hands of Syria. Afterwards, Ahab approached Jehoshaphat about Ramothgilead. If you go back to 1 Kings 20:34 you will see that Benhadad, king of Syria, had covenanted with Ahab that he would restore to Ahab the cities taken by Benhadad's father which, apparently, was never done, so Ahab wanted to go in and take Ramothgiliad back from Benhadad.


fyi ... here is a map showing Judah in the south (where Jehoshaphat was king), Samaria in the north (where Ahab was king) and showing where Ramothgilead is in relation to Samaria:

​

1 Kings 22:

5 And Jehoshaphat said unto the king of Israel, Enquire, I pray thee, at the word of the LORD to day.

6 Then the king of Israel gathered the prophets together, about four hundred men, and said unto them, Shall I go against Ramothgilead to battle, or shall I forbear? And they said, Go up; for the Lord shall deliver it into the hand of the king.

7 And Jehoshaphat said, Is there not here a prophet of the LORD besides, that we might enquire of him?

8 And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, There is yet one man, Micaiah the son of Imlah, by whom we may enquire of the LORD: but I hate him; for he doth not prophesy good concerning me, but evil. And Jehoshaphat said, Let not the king say so.


vs 5 — Before Jehoshaphat agreed to go with Ahab, Jehoshaphat asked to inquire the word of the Lord.

vs 6 — Instead of seeking God's counsel, Ahab called his own prophets. Ahab's prophets were false prophets who lied to Ahab.

vs 7 — Jehoshaphat did not believe the words of Ahab's prophets and asked for a prophet of the Lord.

vs 8 — Ahab told Jehoshaphat that there was a prophet of God but Ahab didn't like to hear from this prophet because Ahab didn't like the Word of God (accusing God of speaking evil ... kinda like what you do, Dave-L). Jehoshaphat rebuked Ahab.


In vss 9-12 we read that while a servant went to bring the prophet (Micaiah), there was more "prophesying" by Ahab's false prophets, who told Ahab what he wanted to hear. Ahab didn't want to hear from God ... Ahab wanted to go his own way.



1 Kings 22:

13 And the messenger that was gone to call Micaiah spake unto him, saying, Behold now, the words of the prophets declare good unto the king with one mouth: let thy word, I pray thee, be like the word of one of them, and speak that which is good.

14 And Micaiah said, As the LORD liveth, what the LORD saith unto me, that will I speak.


vs 13 — the messenger revealed to Micaiah what the false prophets were telling Ahab and basically told Micaiah what he should tell the king.

vs 14 — Micaiah refused to say anything but what the Lord would tell him to say.



... more to follow ...

 

[reneweddaybyday]

… continued from above …



1 Kings 22:

15 So he came to the king. And the king said unto him, Micaiah, shall we go against Ramothgilead to battle, or shall we forbear? And he answered him, Go, and prosper: for the LORD shall deliver it into the hand of the king.

16 And the king said unto him, How many times shall I adjure thee that thou tell me nothing but that which is true in the name of the LORD?


vs 15 — Micaiah appeared before Ahab and basically repeated what the messenger told him to say.

vs 16 — Ahab knew Micaiah was not speaking the Word from the Lord and told Micaiah to speak in the name of the Lord.



1 Kings 22:

17 And he said, I saw all Israel scattered upon the hills, as sheep that have not a shepherd: and the LORD said, These have no master: let them return every man to his house in peace.

18 And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, Did I not tell thee that he would prophesy no good concerning me, but evil?


vs 17 — Micaiah prophesied that Israel would be scattered upon the hills with no shepherd ... the people would return to their own houses. Micaiah basically told Ahab he would die and the nation would be without a king.

vs 18 — Ahab complained to Jehoshaphat because the prophecy was not good … just as Ahab had indicated in vs 8.



1 Kings 22:

19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

20 And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.

21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.

22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

23 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.


vs 19-23 — Micaiah revealed a vision given to him by God.

In the “vision" revealed to Micaiah, God told Ahab and Jehoshaphat that that Ahab's prophets were lying.

The vision tells a remarkable truth … that in God’s presence He has His angels which serve Him, and He has the accuser who is a liar from the beginning.


Dave-L, who is the one who puts ideas in the minds of false prophets? Is it God? Or is it the adversary ... aka the father of lies?

Did God give the words to the prophets of Ahab in vs 6?

Did God give the words to Zedekiah and all the prophets in vss 11-12?

Did God give the words to the messenger, who then told Micaiah, in vs 13?


What Micaiah revealed to Ahab in vss 19-23 through the vision is that Ahab should not listen to his false prophets and that it was Ahab's false prophets which spoke evil through lying spirits. Who do the lying spirits belong to? God? Or the devil?


Look at 2 Peter 2:1-3 ... the same thing goes on today as what occurred back in Ahab's day. Does that mean that God tells false prophets what to say? No! God gives us His Word so we are not taken in by false prophets … just as God gave Ahab His Word as spoken by Micaiah so Ahab would not be snookered. But Ahab would not listen and went ahead with his own plan … but wait until you see what Ahab did (sneaky, sneaky).

Have you ever read Deuteronmy 18?

Deuteronomy 18:

20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?

22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.


We know that Ahab's prophets spoke "presumptuously" because what they told Ahab and Jehoshaphat did not come to pass.

We know that Micaiah spoke truth because what was prophesied by Micaiah did come to pass.



1 Kings 22:

27 And say, Thus saith the king, Put this fellow in the prison, and feed him with bread of affliction and with water of affliction, until I come in peace.

28 And Micaiah said, If thou return at all in peace, the LORD hath not spoken by me. And he said, Hearken, O people, every one of you.


vs 27 — Ahab imprisoned Micaiah and told his servants to keep him in prison until the king returned in peace.

vs 28 — Micaiah replied that the Lord had not spoken those words ... the king would not return in peace. Micaiah further warned others: "Listen, people, every one of you".





... more to follow ...

 

[reneweddaybyday]

… continued from above …



Now, let's see what Ahab did ... so, so sneaky!!!


1 Kings 22:

29 So the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat the king of Judah went up to Ramothgilead.

30 And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, I will disguise myself, and enter into the battle; but put thou on thy robes. And the king of Israel disguised himself, and went into the battle.


vs 29 — the kings went to recover Ramothgilead out of the hands of the king of Syria.

vs 30 — here is the record which reaveals Ahab got sneaky, sneaky. Ahab wanted to "disguise" himself and had Jehoshaphat put Ahab's robes on. So maybe Ahab did believe Micaiah and tried to provide cover for himself.

But, it didn't work ...



1 Kings 22:

31 But the king of Syria commanded his thirty and two captains that had rule over his chariots, saying, Fight neither with small nor great, save only with the king of Israel.

32 And it came to pass, when the captains of the chariots saw Jehoshaphat, that they said, Surely it is the king of Israel. And they turned aside to fight against him: and Jehoshaphat cried out.

33 And it came to pass, when the captains of the chariots perceived that it was not the king of Israel, that they turned back from pursuing him.

34 And a certain man drew a bow at a venture, and smote the king of Israel between the joints of the harness: wherefore he said unto the driver of his chariot, Turn thine hand, and carry me out of the host; for I am wounded.


vss 31-33 — the Syrians were commanded to fight Ahab. When they saw Jehoshaphat dressed in Ahab's robes, they went after him, but realized that Jehoshaphat was not Ahab.

vs 34 — because Ahab listened to his false prophets, he was struck with an arrow.



1 Kings 22:

35 And the battle increased that day: and the king was stayed up in his chariot against the Syrians, and died at even: and the blood ran out of the wound into the midst of the chariot.

36 And there went a proclamation throughout the host about the going down of the sun, saying, Every man to his city, and every man to his own country.

37 So the king died, and was brought to Samaria; and they buried the king in Samaria.

38 And one washed the chariot in the pool of Samaria; and the dogs licked up his blood; and they washed his armour; according unto the word of the LORD which he spake.


vss 35-36 — the prophecy spoken by Miciah in vs 17 was fulfilled (the king is now dead and every man went to his own country).

vss 37-38 — vs 38 is fulfillment of prophecy … see 1 Kings 21:19.

 

[Dave-L]

Your insistence that God causes people to sin has had a "major effect" on your understanding and comprehension of Scripture.

Instead of accusing God of things He does not do and blaming God for mankind's own failures, why don't you read God's Word and ask Him to reveal His Truth to you???





First of all, Ahab was king of Israel; he reigned 22 years in Samaria, and Ahab did evil in the sight of the Lord above all that were before him (1 Kings 16:28-30).

1 Kings 22:

1 And they continued three years without war between Syria and Israel.

2 And it came to pass in the third year, that Jehoshaphat the king of Judah came down to the king of Israel.

3 And the king of Israel said unto his servants, Know ye that Ramoth in Gilead is ours, and we be still, and take it not out of the hand of the king of Syria?

4 And he said unto Jehoshaphat, Wilt thou go with me to battle to Ramothgilead? And Jehoshaphat said to the king of Israel, I am as thou art, my people as thy people, my horses as thy horses.


vs 1 — In 1 Kings 20, we read about war between Syria and Israel. Then in 1 Kings 22:1 we see that there was a period of 3 years with no war.

vs 2 — Jehoshaphat, king of Judah, went to Samaria to Ahab, king of Israel. and just fyi ... according to 2 Chron 17:3-6, Jehoshaphat sought the Lord and walked in His commandments.

vs 3-4 — Ahab spoke to his servants about going in and taking Ramothgilead back from the hands of Syria. Afterwards, Ahab approached Jehoshaphat about Ramothgilead. If you go back to 1 Kings 20:34 you will see that Benhadad, king of Syria, had covenanted with Ahab that he would restore to Ahab the cities taken by Benhadad's father which, apparently, was never done, so Ahab wanted to go in and take Ramothgiliad back from Benhadad.


fyi ... here is a map showing Judah in the south (where Jehoshaphat was king), Samaria in the north (where Ahab was king) and showing where Ramothgilead is in relation to Samaria:

​

1 Kings 22:

5 And Jehoshaphat said unto the king of Israel, Enquire, I pray thee, at the word of the LORD to day.

6 Then the king of Israel gathered the prophets together, about four hundred men, and said unto them, Shall I go against Ramothgilead to battle, or shall I forbear? And they said, Go up; for the Lord shall deliver it into the hand of the king.

7 And Jehoshaphat said, Is there not here a prophet of the LORD besides, that we might enquire of him?

8 And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, There is yet one man, Micaiah the son of Imlah, by whom we may enquire of the LORD: but I hate him; for he doth not prophesy good concerning me, but evil. And Jehoshaphat said, Let not the king say so.


vs 5 — Before Jehoshaphat agreed to go with Ahab, Jehoshaphat asked to inquire the word of the Lord.

vs 6 — Instead of seeking God's counsel, Ahab called his own prophets. Ahab's prophets were false prophets who lied to Ahab.

vs 7 — Jehoshaphat did not believe the words of Ahab's prophets and asked for a prophet of the Lord.

vs 8 — Ahab told Jehoshaphat that there was a prophet of God but Ahab didn't like to hear from this prophet because Ahab didn't like the Word of God (accusing God of speaking evil ... kinda like what you do, Dave-L). Jehoshaphat rebuked Ahab.


In vss 9-12 we read that while a servant went to bring the prophet (Micaiah), there was more "prophesying" by Ahab's false prophets, who told Ahab what he wanted to hear. Ahab didn't want to hear from God ... Ahab wanted to go his own way.



1 Kings 22:

13 And the messenger that was gone to call Micaiah spake unto him, saying, Behold now, the words of the prophets declare good unto the king with one mouth: let thy word, I pray thee, be like the word of one of them, and speak that which is good.

14 And Micaiah said, As the LORD liveth, what the LORD saith unto me, that will I speak.


vs 13 — the messenger revealed to Micaiah what the false prophets were telling Ahab and basically told Micaiah what he should tell the king.

vs 14 — Micaiah refused to say anything but what the Lord would tell him to say.



... more to follow ...

“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” Isaiah 45:7 (KJV 1900)

“Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?” Amos 3:6 (KJV 1900)

“Yet he also is wise, and will bring evil, And will not call back his words: But will arise against the house of the evildoers, And against the help of them that work iniquity.” Isaiah 31:2 (KJV 1900)

“For thus saith the Lord GOD; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?” Ezekiel 14:21 (KJV 1900)

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Dave-L, how long have you been studying God’s Word?

Do you know that words are to be understood in light of the verse within which the word sits?

Do you know that verses are to be understood in light of the context within which the the verse sits?

Do you know that the context is to be understood in light of the whole of Scripture?

This understanding is a basic element to our coming to full comprehension of Scripture. If you do not know this, you will be blown about by every wind of doctrine by the sleight of men and cunning craftiness whereby they lie in wait to deceive (Eph 4:14).

I note that what you have done is take a particular verse out of Scripture without considering the context within which the verse sits. And when the context is explained to you, rather than allow God to work in your heart to bring increase, you go on to the next verse which appears to state what you claim, but when understood in light of the context, what is revealed is that you do not understand Scripture.

And now, again the truth revealed to you is that nowhere in Scripture will you find that "God causes people to sin”.

The error is in your misinterpretation of Scripture and your obstinate unwillingness to turn to God and ask Him to reveal His truth to you so that your thoughts and belief are in alignment with Him.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” Isaiah 45:7 (KJV 1900)

Yes, Isaiah 45:7 declares God is the Creator of everything.

There is One God and He alone created everything. Some people believe that there are two gods ... a god that is good and a god that is evil. Isaiah 45:7 clarifies that there is only One God Who created everything.

The "god" who some people believe is the "evil god" is not a god at all ...

Isaiah 45:7 does not state that God "causes people to sin". Your belief that God causes people to sin (as you have stated here, here, here) is completely in error.

You have been shown that your belief is in error. Will you turn from your error? That remains to be seen ...

If you do not turn from your error, it is not because God causes you to remain in error. You remain in error all on your own ... just like when you sin, you sin all on your own ... not because God "causes you to sin".

 

[Dave-L]

Dave-L, how long have you been studying God’s Word?

Do you know that words are to be understood in light of the verse within which the word sits?

Do you know that verses are to be understood in light of the context within which the the verse sits?

Do you know that the context is to be understood in light of the whole of Scripture?

This understanding is a basic element to our coming to full comprehension of Scripture. If you do not know this, you will be blown about by every wind of doctrine by the sleight of men and cunning craftiness whereby they lie in wait to deceive (Eph 4:14).

I note that what you have done is take a particular verse out of Scripture without considering the context within which the verse sits. And when the context is explained to you, rather than allow God to work in your heart to bring increase, you go on to the next verse which appears to state what you claim, but when understood in light of the context, what is revealed is that you do not understand Scripture.

And now, again the truth revealed to you is that nowhere in Scripture will you find that "God causes people to sin”.

The error is in your misinterpretation of Scripture and your obstinate unwillingness to turn to God and ask Him to reveal His truth to you so that your thoughts and belief are in alignment with Him.

If you start with Jesus' description of the spiritual kingdom and believe him, the rest takes care of itself. But you must be born again to do this.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

“Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? Shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?” Amos 3:6 (KJV 1900)

Read the next verse, Dave-L. Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

According to Amos 1:1, The words of Amos, who was among the herdmen of Tekoa, which he saw concerning Israel in the days of Uzziah king of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash king of Israel ...


The book of Amos is a warning to the nation of Israel in the days of king Uzziah of Judah and king Jeroboam or Israel.

Look at what is being addressed in the book of Amos:

Amos 1:

3 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Damascus, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof ...

6 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Gaza, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof ...

9 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Tyrus, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof ...

11 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Edom, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof ...

13 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of the children of Ammon, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof ...


Amos 2:

1 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Moab, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof ...

4 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Judah, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof ...

6 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Israel, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof ...


Do you see the focus, Dave-L? Do you see what God is about to do? He is announcing the consequence of the transgressions of the people.


In Amos 3, God gives warning to His people that because of the transgression of the people, evil will be brought upon them:

Amos 3:6-7 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

The term "trumpet be blown in the city" refers to when a city is besieged by another and the watchmen give the sound of the trumpet as a warning to the people to prepare.

We have warnings to this day that we pay attention to … hurricane warnings ... tornado warnings ... winter storm warnings … heat warnings ... tsunami warnings, etc. etc. These are warnings that some catastrophe is coming our way.

At the time Amos was written, God warned His people through His prophets and the people would either listen and repent ... or not listen and not repent.

If they listened and repented, God would welcome back with open arms and His blessing would rain down from heaven.

If they did not listen and did not repent, the people would reap the consequence of their non-repentance. In many cases, they would be taken captive. God used other nations to bring Israel to repentance.


And God told them this would be the case all the way back in the days of Moses:

If they listened and repented/obeyed:

Deuteronomy 28:1-2 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth: And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.


Read through Deut 28:3-14 to see all the blessings that would be bestowed upon the children of Israel.


Read Deut 28:15-68 to see what would happen if they did not listen and remained unrepentant.

Here is just a sample of what the children of Israel already knew would happen if they turned from God:

Deuteronomy 28:

48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.

49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;

50 A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young


Because you read God's Word through the lens of your erroneous dogma, you do not understand that God does not "cause people to sin" and that God, in His infinite wisdom, does use people who sin to His advantage.

And please also understand, God gave fair warning to the children of Israel before He ever used the sinful nations in judgment against the transgression of Israel.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

“Yet he also is wise, and will bring evil, And will not call back his words: But will arise against the house of the evildoers, And against the help of them that work iniquity.” Isaiah 31:2 (KJV 1900)

Again, Dave-L, read the verse in the context:

Isaiah 31:

1 Woe to them that go down to Egypt for help; and stay on horses, and trust in chariots, because they are many; and in horsemen, because they are very strong; but they look not unto the Holy One of Israel, neither seek the LORD!

2 Yet he also is wise, and will bring evil, and will not call back his words: but will arise against the house of the evildoers, and against the help of them that work iniquity.

3 Now the Egyptians are men, and not God; and their horses flesh, and not spirit. When the LORD shall stretch out his hand, both he that helpeth shall fall, and he that is holpen shall fall down, and they all shall fail together.


People who turn from God and turn to anything other than God for help will be judged for their actions in turning away from God.

Look at verse 3 — when God stretches out His hand in judgment, those who trust in their own strength or the strength of their horses as well as those who trust in men who trust in their own strength/horses shall fall down together.

And again, what is not stated in these verses is that God "causes people to sin”.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

“For thus saith the Lord GOD; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?” Ezekiel 14:21 (KJV 1900)

And here again, Dave-L, you have not considered the context.

Read the verse within the context:


Ezekiel 14:

12 The word of the LORD came again to me, saying,

13 Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it:

…

21 For thus saith the Lord GOD; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?

22 Yet, behold, therein shall be left a remnant that shall be brought forth, both sons and daughters: behold, they shall come forth unto you, and ye shall see their way and their doings: and ye shall be comforted concerning the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, even concerning all that I have brought upon it.

23 And they shall comfort you, when ye see their ways and their doings: and ye shall know that I have not done without cause all that I have done in it, saith the Lord GOD.


Note in vs 23 that God declares that He has not done without cause all that He has done.

God is sovereign over all and He can do as He determines. However, please note, this section in Ezekiel 14 indicates that there is a cause for God bringing judgment.


And please also note, Dave-L, nowhere in this section does God state that He "causes people to sin”.

 

[Dave-L]

Again, Dave-L, read the verse in the context:

Isaiah 31:

1 Woe to them that go down to Egypt for help; and stay on horses, and trust in chariots, because they are many; and in horsemen, because they are very strong; but they look not unto the Holy One of Israel, neither seek the LORD!

2 Yet he also is wise, and will bring evil, and will not call back his words: but will arise against the house of the evildoers, and against the help of them that work iniquity.

3 Now the Egyptians are men, and not God; and their horses flesh, and not spirit. When the LORD shall stretch out his hand, both he that helpeth shall fall, and he that is holpen shall fall down, and they all shall fail together.


People who turn from God and turn to anything other than God for help will be judged for their actions in turning away from God.

Look at verse 3 — when God stretches out His hand in judgment, those who trust in their own strength or the strength of their horses as well as those who trust in men who trust in their own strength/horses shall fall down together.

And again, what is not stated in these verses is that God "causes people to sin”.

“And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.” 1 Kings 22:19–23 (KJV 1900)

 

[Dave-L]

And here again, Dave-L, you have not considered the context.

Read the verse within the context:


Ezekiel 14:

12 The word of the LORD came again to me, saying,

13 Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it:

…

21 For thus saith the Lord GOD; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?

22 Yet, behold, therein shall be left a remnant that shall be brought forth, both sons and daughters: behold, they shall come forth unto you, and ye shall see their way and their doings: and ye shall be comforted concerning the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, even concerning all that I have brought upon it.

23 And they shall comfort you, when ye see their ways and their doings: and ye shall know that I have not done without cause all that I have done in it, saith the Lord GOD.


Note in vs 23 that God declares that He has not done without cause all that He has done.

God is sovereign over all and He can do as He determines. However, please note, this section in Ezekiel 14 indicates that there is a cause for God bringing judgment.


And please also note, Dave-L, nowhere in this section does God state that He "causes people to sin”.

“And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.” 1 Kings 22:19–23 (KJV 1900)

 

[Dave-L]

Read the next verse, Dave-L. Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

According to Amos 1:1, The words of Amos, who was among the herdmen of Tekoa, which he saw concerning Israel in the days of Uzziah king of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash king of Israel ...


The book of Amos is a warning to the nation of Israel in the days of king Uzziah of Judah and king Jeroboam or Israel.

Look at what is being addressed in the book of Amos:

Amos 1:

3 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Damascus, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof ...

6 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Gaza, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof ...

9 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Tyrus, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof ...

11 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Edom, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof ...

13 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of the children of Ammon, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof ...


Amos 2:

1 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Moab, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof ...

4 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Judah, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof ...

6 Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Israel, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof ...


Do you see the focus, Dave-L? Do you see what God is about to do? He is announcing the consequence of the transgressions of the people.


In Amos 3, God gives warning to His people that because of the transgression of the people, evil will be brought upon them:

Amos 3:6-7 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

The term "trumpet be blown in the city" refers to when a city is besieged by another and the watchmen give the sound of the trumpet as a warning to the people to prepare.

We have warnings to this day that we pay attention to … hurricane warnings ... tornado warnings ... winter storm warnings … heat warnings ... tsunami warnings, etc. etc. These are warnings that some catastrophe is coming our way.

At the time Amos was written, God warned His people through His prophets and the people would either listen and repent ... or not listen and not repent.

If they listened and repented, God would welcome back with open arms and His blessing would rain down from heaven.

If they did not listen and did not repent, the people would reap the consequence of their non-repentance. In many cases, they would be taken captive. God used other nations to bring Israel to repentance.


And God told them this would be the case all the way back in the days of Moses:

If they listened and repented/obeyed:

Deuteronomy 28:1-2 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth: And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.


Read through Deut 28:3-14 to see all the blessings that would be bestowed upon the children of Israel.


Read Deut 28:15-68 to see what would happen if they did not listen and remained unrepentant.

Here is just a sample of what the children of Israel already knew would happen if they turned from God:

Deuteronomy 28:

48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.

49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;

50 A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young


Because you read God's Word through the lens of your erroneous dogma, you do not understand that God does not "cause people to sin" and that God, in His infinite wisdom, does use people who sin to His advantage.

And please also understand, God gave fair warning to the children of Israel before He ever used the sinful nations in judgment against the transgression of Israel.

But he could have prevented them from sinning too, being all-powerful.

 

[Dave-L]

Yes, Isaiah 45:7 declares God is the Creator of everything.

There is One God and He alone created everything. Some people believe that there are two gods ... a god that is good and a god that is evil. Isaiah 45:7 clarifies that there is only One God Who created everything.

The "god" who some people believe is the "evil god" is not a god at all ...

Isaiah 45:7 does not state that God "causes people to sin". Your belief that God causes people to sin (as you have stated here, here, here) is completely in error.

You have been shown that your belief is in error. Will you turn from your error? That remains to be seen ...

If you do not turn from your error, it is not because God causes you to remain in error. You remain in error all on your own ... just like when you sin, you sin all on your own ... not because God "causes you to sin".

Did God cause Adam to sin, creating him after he knew he would sin? Of course, he did.

 

[Diakonos]

Dave-L, how long have you been studying God’s Word?

Do you know that words are to be understood in light of the verse within which the word sits?

Do you know that verses are to be understood in light of the context within which the the verse sits?

Do you know that the context is to be understood in light of the whole of Scripture?

This understanding is a basic element to our coming to full comprehension of Scripture. If you do not know this, you will be blown about by every wind of doctrine by the sleight of men and cunning craftiness whereby they lie in wait to deceive (Eph 4:14).

I note that what you have done is take a particular verse out of Scripture without considering the context within which the verse sits. And when the context is explained to you, rather than allow God to work in your heart to bring increase, you go on to the next verse which appears to state what you claim, but when understood in light of the context, what is revealed is that you do not understand Scripture.

And now, again the truth revealed to you is that nowhere in Scripture will you find that "God causes people to sin”.

The error is in your misinterpretation of Scripture and your obstinate unwillingness to turn to God and ask Him to reveal His truth to you so that your thoughts and belief are in alignment with Him.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...ach-in-every-case.191134/page-16#post-4213160

 

[reneweddaybyday]

If you start with Jesus' description of the spiritual kingdom and believe him, the rest takes care of itself. But you must be born again to do this.

Another dodge …

Why won't you answer simple questions?

How long have you been studying God’s Word?

Or to you believe that you do not need to study God’s Word?


Even Jesus knew the Scriptures. He studied and recited Scripture when He taught in the synagogue in Nazareth:

Luke 4:

17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.


And when Jesus taught in the synagogue, He didn't have Scripture in book form like we do, where the writings are separated into books, chapters, and verses.

Jesus read from a long scroll. And note that in vs 17, He found the place where it was written. He didn't hunt for it a long time. He located the place immediately and started teaching. That is how familiar He was with Scripture because He had studied the scroll and knew exactly where to go to find what He wanted to teach.



Or how about when Jesus went into the wilderness after He was baptized and the devil came to tempt Him?

Jesus responded to each of the devil’s temptations with It is written …


Many times when the pharisees, the sadducees, the elders tried to entangle Him with His own talk (Matt 22:15), Jesus responded to them with straight Scripture.


So, Dave-L, how long have you been studying Scripture?

Do you know that words are to be understood in light of the verse within which the word sits?

Do you know that verses are to be understood in light of the context within which the the verse sits?

Do you know that the context is to be understood in light of the whole of Scripture?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

“And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.” 1 Kings 22:19–23 (KJV 1900)

“And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner. And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so. Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.” 1 Kings 22:19–23 (KJV 1900)

Did you read Posts 341, 342, 343? I specifically addressed these verses in Post 342.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

But he could have prevented them from sinning too, being all-powerful.

God chose not to "have prevented them from sinning” and God remains ”all-powerful”.

God not having prevented Adam and Eve from sinning does not equal God “causing people to sin", nor does it diminish God's eternal power.

Where is your Scripture which states that God “causes people to sin”? Please provide chapter and verse.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Did God cause Adam to sin, creating him after he knew he would sin?

No! No!! No!!!

God knew satan would deceive Eve and Eve would eat and Adam would eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. God knowing Adam would sin does not equal God “causing Adam to sin”. What God did was provide for the redemption of mankind.

Of course, he did.

Again … chapter and verse.

You have provided no Scripture which states what you claim.


Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God.

 

[Dave-L]

No! No!! No!!!

God knew satan would deceive Eve and Eve would eat and Adam would eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. God knowing Adam would sin does not equal God “causing Adam to sin”. What God did was provide for the redemption of mankind.





Again … chapter and verse.

You have provided no Scripture which states what you claim.


Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God.

If you create something, you cause it to happen.