Comment of Calvinism

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ChristsArmorBearer

Guest
#41
When scripture tells us that we must "work out our salvation with fear and trembling", it means that we must literally "walk the walk" instead of merely "talking the talk" as so many seem to think these days. Utiimately, it does not matter what you "believe" inside your head, if you do not have the faith to actually live it out in your daily life then your "beleifs" amount to absolutely nothing.

This what the bible means when it is reads "faith without works is dead". By no means is anyone insinuating that we are saved by "works", in fact, quite the opposite is true. However, real faith is more than simply believing or agreeing with a ceratin concept or idea. Real real faith must walked out - it is a way of life - it requires that we physically live out our beliefs not only in thought but in deed as well. So when the bible tells us that "we are saved by grace through faith", Paul is referring to a faith that is so alive and absolute within us that it influences every decission we make, every thing we do and everything thing we say. This may friends is the biblical definition of "faith".

It is this kind of faith that Calvin believed in. It is this kind of faith that Calvin insisted offered eternal security. However, Calvin would be the first to take a stand against most popular modern doctrine, especially that of "carnal christianity", the idea that one can be a slave to sin and still be saved. Calvin would not hesitate to remind you that Christ himself insisted thaty one can not have two masters and that by embracing one, he is despising the other.
Scriptural support that what I am saying is indeed true can be found in Matthew 25, verses 14 - 30 which is also known as the "parable of the talents" where a man gives money to three of his servants so that they may in turn yield a profit while he is away. Two servants were profitable while the third was not due to the skewed perspective in which he saw his master. The master strips the unprofitable servant of that which the master had given him and gives it to another then casts that servant into outer darkness. All three men were servants however it was because the third's servant perverted beliefs concerning his master that lead to his disobedience and exile.


Luke 18:8

"...However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?"


James 1:21-22

"Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves."


2 Timothy 3:2-9

"People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them."

"They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth—men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone."
 
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superdave5221

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
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#42
well after all that superdave you can see that both sides can claim scripture. it just depends on ur bias as to how you interpret them. As ive found out, its not that one is unbiblical and the other biblical but rather that its really a matter of choice, whatever SEEMS more biblical to you, whichever goes with God's personality the most, etc, its a personal conviction either way, so study up and pray about it and see what the Spirit says, cos after all neither belief systems are heresy. Also if you have any questions on either please feel free to ask me, because im not biased either way, (and as ive seen on here people do have a wrong view of calvinism) even though i would now say i believe in the doctrine of Arminius, Ive also been a believer in the doctrine of Calvin so I havent got any of that confusing judgment to one or the other.

What you say about people accepting what "seems" more biblical is the part that I struggle with. After further study, I would have to disagree with Calvin on all points. And yet, it appears by most accounts that Calvin was a pious, God seeking man. It raises a philosophical question as to why the Holy Spirit would allow such a man to go astray, and yet bless us, who may be less deserving, to know the truth.
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#43
Limited Atonement is, in my view, the key to the controversy and the aspect of Calvinism that I most contend against. I John 2:2 says "And He Himself [Jesus] is the appeasement for our sins, not for ours only, but the entire world." If Jesus died for the whole world (unlimited atonement) then this defines predestination. God is not man. If we were omniscient, we would have Jesus only die for those whom we know will be saved. But His love toward the unsaved is as great as toward the saved. When the unsaved stand before Him on the day of judgement, they will not be able to revile, for their sins were appeased, but they rejected the appeasement. Now the bloodguilt is upon their head for the gift refused.
 
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Lad

Guest
#44
yeah, personally im not entirely convinced the verse that states the spirit will lead us into all truth literally means every truth there is to know, but perhaps all he says will be truth. So maybe its one of the areas the Spirit is quiet on. And having come from both sides, i can say that i could completely prove both sides using the bible. but personally i am an arminianist but i do believe in once saved always saved.
 
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greatkraw

Guest
#45
What you say about people accepting what "seems" more biblical is the part that I struggle with. After further study, I would have to disagree with Calvin on all points. And yet, it appears by most accounts that Calvin was a pious, God seeking man. It raises a philosophical question as to why the Holy Spirit would allow such a man to go astray, and yet bless us, who may be less deserving, to know the truth.
Calvin never heard of TULIP
 

superdave5221

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
29
48
#46
yeah, personally im not entirely convinced the verse that states the spirit will lead us into all truth literally means every truth there is to know, but perhaps all he says will be truth. So maybe its one of the areas the Spirit is quiet on. And having come from both sides, i can say that i could completely prove both sides using the bible. but personally i am an arminianist but i do believe in once saved always saved.
Actually I have always leaned towards Arminianism myself. But as I continue to study the scriptures, I will adjust my beliefs as the Spirit directs.
 
Jan 8, 2009
7,576
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#48
Calvinism is leaven, it leavens the whole lump. Whether only the T, the U, the L, the I or the P, makes no difference,..every church that ascribes to Calvinism is leavened in one way or another. They most often think their denomination is the only right one, and hence we get the symptom of leaven which is religious pride and hypocrisy.
 
Oct 1, 2009
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#49
Calvinism is leaven, it leavens the whole lump. Whether only the T, the U, the L, the I or the P, makes no difference,..every church that ascribes to Calvinism is leavened in one way or another. They most often think their denomination is the only right one, and hence we get the symptom of leaven which is religious pride and hypocrisy.
I dunno, a lot of great preachers pre-2000 had calvinistic tendencies. If anything it could be argued that our modern day anti-calvinist evangelism has caused a lot of problems in the church, but then again you can argue the other way. But honestly, it does not matter what a person believes in regards to this issue. This whole calvin/arminius debate is pretty dull, there's no convincing either side and each one is going to "look for scriptures" to support their position.
 
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Lad

Guest
#50
so very true pete.
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#51
Irresistable Grace. How does this fit with the seared conscience? If the conscience is merely moved by a vague sense of the tasteful versus the untasteful, it is not seared. Only under the heat of God's grace--the aspect of conviction--does it become seared. And if God's grace can be resisted to the point of such a searing, is it irresistable? And if it is irresistable then how is it grace? Every day I work with students who have APSD. They have no guilt resoponse at all. They will be your best friend right up to the moment when they whimsically slit your throat and then sit down to dinner without even flinching. Many of them, at some point, hear and even in some way respond to the gospel. But, save for a miracle from God, they are lost.
 
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greatkraw

Guest
#52
Are you saying that TULIP is not representative of Calvin's beliefs?
yeah, pretty well

It was put together by his disciples who were theological and intellectual midgets in comparison

It was a reaction to the counter reformation and also Arminianism

Calvinists in their myopea create issues where there is no need eg

- God's sovereignty vs mans free will
- How to have assurance
- Double predestination
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#53
Are you saying that TULIP is not representative of Calvin's beliefs?
I'm not sure that Calvin would have liked some of the application of his theology. I'm certain he would not have like it simplified to TULIP.
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#54
yeah, pretty well

It was put together by his disciples who were theological and intellectual midgets in comparison

It was a reaction to the counter reformation and also Arminianism

Calvinists in their myopea create issues where there is no need eg

- God's sovereignty vs mans free will
- How to have assurance
- Double predestination
Exactly. I agree.
 
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ChristsArmorBearer

Guest
#55
Calvinism is leaven, it leavens the whole lump. Whether only the T, the U, the L, the I or the P, makes no difference,..every church that ascribes to Calvinism is leavened in one way or another. They most often think their denomination is the only right one, and hence we get the symptom of leaven which is religious pride and hypocrisy.
Amen to that!
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#56
Predestination: this is the one that I do believe in, but I also believe in Free Will. I think that the omniscience and omnipotence of God is such that He can allow for free will and yet perfectly work out His will. I think there are aspects of His divine power that does not compute in our tiny little minds.
 
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JerseyChick

Guest
#57
The teaching of calvinism is not unbiblical in fact it is very biblical. Each point of the TULIP comes straight out of scripture. Here is a link that explains TULIP a little better.

http://www.calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htm

Reformed Theology is not something that we should avoid. If main stream christianity understood more of it's history we would actually learn that our nations founding fathers were puritans. What did the puritans hold to? (one guess) Calvinism. George Washington our nations 1st President was a Puritan.

http://reformedtheology.org/SiteFiles/WhatIsRT.html

Many people have been taught to hate or stay away from calvinism (or what I believe is historic christianity) because it holds to the teaching that we have no say in our salvation. They would like to believe that they have a choice and a free will but what they forget is that we have a depraved nature because of the fall of Adam. Depravity teaches us that we are completely sinful and dead in our sins and trespasses. We are unable to do any good. For God to save us takes the work of the Holy Spirit *alone*. That's right I said it. Salvation is a gift of God and not of ourselves lest anyone should boast. God is the *author and finisher* of our faith. We will choose God when He moves upon our hearts to trust in Him. I believe that we do indeed have a free will but it is bound up in sin. Left to ourselves the only thing that we will ever choose is our own sinful nature. With out Gods help and the preaching of the gospel (faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God) we will die in our sins.

http://www.reformed.org/
 

DinoDillinger

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
837
17
18
#58
The teaching of calvinism is not unbiblical in fact it is very biblical. Each point of the TULIP comes straight out of scripture. Here is a link that explains TULIP a little better.

http://www.calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htm

Reformed Theology is not something that we should avoid. If main stream christianity understood more of it's history we would actually learn that our nations founding fathers were puritans. What did the puritans hold to? (one guess) Calvinism. George Washington our nations 1st President was a Puritan.

http://reformedtheology.org/SiteFiles/WhatIsRT.html

Many people have been taught to hate or stay away from calvinism (or what I believe is historic christianity) because it holds to the teaching that we have no say in our salvation. They would like to believe that they have a choice and a free will but what they forget is that we have a depraved nature because of the fall of Adam. Depravity teaches us that we are completely sinful and dead in our sins and trespasses. We are unable to do any good. For God to save us takes the work of the Holy Spirit *alone*. That's right I said it. Salvation is a gift of God and not of ourselves lest anyone should boast. God is the *author and finisher* of our faith. We will choose God when He moves upon our hearts to trust in Him. I believe that we do indeed have a free will but it is bound up in sin. Left to ourselves the only thing that we will ever choose is our own sinful nature. With out Gods help and the preaching of the gospel (faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God) we will die in our sins.

http://www.reformed.org/
You know, I didn't think about it but I am called a calvinist and do not go to a reformed church. In bible study and even on the pulpit I have heard people bash calvinism or atleast express their disaggrement to it. The odd thing is when a lost person comes into one of the chat rooms here after armenians exhaust themselves trying to make a person choose to believe you could say, they start sounding like calvinists. The part people like to assault of the doctrine is them drawing out of it that some are destined to go to hell, but the focus of the doctrine is that man has no boast in his faith since it is God that draws him and not the man choosing to come. I could say that most anti-calvinists doctrine implies that man is the author and finisher of his salvation. Actually, that is where I find the most fault in their beliefs.
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#59
You know, I didn't think about it but I am called a calvinist and do not go to a reformed church. In bible study and even on the pulpit I have heard people bash calvinism or atleast express their disaggrement to it. The odd thing is when a lost person comes into one of the chat rooms here after armenians exhaust themselves trying to make a person choose to believe you could say, they start sounding like calvinists. The part people like to assault of the doctrine is them drawing out of it that some are destined to go to hell, but the focus of the doctrine is that man has no boast in his faith since it is God that draws him and not the man choosing to come. I could say that most anti-calvinists doctrine implies that man is the author and finisher of his salvation. Actually, that is where I find the most fault in their beliefs.
You don't have to be an Armenian to disagree with TULIP, nor do you have to be anti-calvinistic. Calvin's ideas went beyond TULIP, and many are mainstays of almost all Protestantism. As for my role in my salvation, if I am offered a free gift, I cannot boast based upon accepting that, since I did nothing to achieve it nor to deserve it.
 
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greatkraw

Guest
#60
The teaching of calvinism is not unbiblical in fact it is very biblical. Each point of the TULIP comes straight out of scripture. Here is a link that explains TULIP a little better.

http://www.calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htm

Reformed Theology is not something that we should avoid. If main stream christianity understood more of it's history we would actually learn that our nations founding fathers were puritans. What did the puritans hold to? (one guess) Calvinism. George Washington our nations 1st President was a Puritan.

http://reformedtheology.org/SiteFiles/WhatIsRT.html

Many people have been taught to hate or stay away from calvinism (or what I believe is historic christianity) because it holds to the teaching that we have no say in our salvation. They would like to believe that they have a choice and a free will but what they forget is that we have a depraved nature because of the fall of Adam. Depravity teaches us that we are completely sinful and dead in our sins and trespasses. We are unable to do any good. For God to save us takes the work of the Holy Spirit *alone*. That's right I said it. Salvation is a gift of God and not of ourselves lest anyone should boast. God is the *author and finisher* of our faith. We will choose God when He moves upon our hearts to trust in Him. I believe that we do indeed have a free will but it is bound up in sin. Left to ourselves the only thing that we will ever choose is our own sinful nature. With out Gods help and the preaching of the gospel (faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God) we will die in our sins.

http://www.reformed.org/

Hello Scotland:D

Are there any Free Presbyteians these days?

Limited Atonement is WRONG for a start:)